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Krishan13
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Posted - 2007.09.11 21:49:00 -
[1]
NPC corporations are a great place for new characters to start off. However, they should not be penalty-free, pvp-free hi-sec shelters for experienced players. There should be a price for staying totally out of the PvP side of the game. My solution?
25% tax on EVERYTHING. Every trade, ever sale, every purchase, everything. Everything done by a member of a newbie corp should cost you. Want to forego the penalty? Form a 1-man corporation or join a carebear... er, hi-security PC empire corporation. Run the risk of being wardecced to make profits or don't whine.
It's past time for safe easy money without penalty to end. The current scenario is only going to get worse when macrominers get the improved cargo holds: what if their profits vanished, or they became wardeccable? I know of some players who will accept a 25% tax to retain the privilege (don't think it's not!) of being immune to corporate warfare. Those who don't want to pay are the ones who want to have their cake and eat it too.
So whatcha think?
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Endica Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.09.11 22:00:00 -
[2]
I think you for some reason hate players in NPC corps as well as newbies. Try something like 10%. 25% is nor reasonable, at all.
_________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well - |
BCBArclight
Odessa Operations
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Posted - 2007.09.11 22:28:00 -
[3]
How about an incrementable rise to tax for every month, say: 0% - first 3 months 20%- 3-6 40%- 7th month .... .... 100% at the 10 month or 1 year mark etc.
Should be enough time for the player to get his feet and move on.
Odessa Operations are Recruiting |
Tek'a Rain
Gallente Isis Technologies
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Posted - 2007.09.11 23:01:00 -
[4]
did the scary-bad npc corp touch you? show the jury where they touched you on this doll..
NPC corp taxing solves nothing, while at the same time giving new players, an important resource, a tougher start in the world.
Not for the taxes those players themselves might pay, but for the die-hard and friendly NPC corp folks who have been there a long time but still answer the "how do I exit my pod" questions and the "ship to make move how yes" questions.
Without this brain-trust the corpmates and friends of the future are instead the frustrated nublets who quit before their trial runs up because the "new player" channel is too spammed to help them.
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Clansworth
Point-Zero SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.12 00:23:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Krishan13 There should be a price for staying totally out of the PvP side of the game.
Combat is not the only PvP in this game. Lone traders are still very much in the PvP side of the game. Nothing in this game requires people to play nice with others, and i believe it should stay that way.
Prospector Class |
EadTaes
Minmatar Veni Vidi Vici. SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.12 01:42:00 -
[6]
Then what about the guy who has been playing the game for 4 years and decide to leave his corp in search for an other one more inline with his values and goals in the game.
So while he is in between corps he can't do anything?
You'll then say have it set by how long he has been in the NPC corp but that won't work either since people will just join a player corp for a few days them go back into the NPC corp.
Their would be no end to it and coding for all the possibilities isn't worth the effort.
The only real way to deal with it is with management. As in Real people deciding on the concequences that someone will suffer for abusing the NPC corp system? 0.0 Policing, Econnomic Control & NPC Agents |
Ilvan
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Posted - 2007.09.12 02:40:00 -
[7]
I'd like to see a permanent 25% tax imposed on the accounts of anyone who makes suggestions like this.
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Reggie Stoneloader
Teikoku Trade Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.12 04:27:00 -
[8]
I don't see anything wrong with making the NPC corps into pseudo-alliances, with each individual member a one-man corp unto himself.
When I assemble a ship, it's automatically named "Reggie Stoneloader's Kestrel". When I leave a corp, I should drop into "Reggie Stoneloader, Inc." with a single star as my corp logo and no power to recruit, rent offices or erect POSes.
I'm put into the "Deep Core Mining Confederation", with the chat channel and little stars on other members that such membership entails. It would actually be more consistent, since currently the NPC corps work more like alliances in terms of flagging.
Absolutely no core gameplay changes, except that I can't afk in a Charon for 80 hours a week without anyone being able to touch my huge moneymaking power.
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Sessho Seki
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Posted - 2007.09.12 04:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ilvan I'd like to see a permanent 25% tax imposed on the accounts of anyone who makes suggestions like this.
Seconded
Originally by: Krishan13 NPC corporations are a great place for new characters to start off. However, they should not be penalty-free, pvp-free hi-sec shelters for experienced players. There should be a price for staying totally out of the PvP side of the game. My solution?
25% tax on EVERYTHING. Every trade, ever sale, every purchase, everything. Everything done by a member of a newbie corp should cost you. Want to forego the penalty? Form a 1-man corporation or join a carebear... er, hi-security PC empire corporation. Run the risk of being wardecced to make profits or don't whine.
It's past time for safe easy money without penalty to end. The current scenario is only going to get worse when macrominers get the improved cargo holds: what if their profits vanished, or they became wardeccable? I know of some players who will accept a 25% tax to retain the privilege (don't think it's not!) of being immune to corporate warfare. Those who don't want to pay are the ones who want to have their cake and eat it too.
So whatcha think?
The next time you believe a great idea has come out of you, flush the toilet...
Listen, if you can't actually come up with a reason for it other than 'I pay taxes they should too', then that isn't a reason, sorry.
If your taxes are too high in your corp, who's fault is that? Talk to the powers that be, but don't come whining that other people who are paying nothing should be punished because you're paying something.
All that is asking for is for CCP to punish other people's finances because you don't like how they choose to play for whatever asinine personal reason. Thankfully CCP doesn't force people to play any specific way (they just hint extremely hard at low sec PvP).
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Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
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Posted - 2007.09.12 04:47:00 -
[10]
But if people stop hiding their hauler alts in npc corps the suicide ganking problem is greatly reduced
Local Thread 107-b,War ,Navigation Shortcuts |
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Kil'Roy
Minmatar The Rat Patrol
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Posted - 2007.09.12 06:49:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Krishan13 NPC corporations are a great place for new characters to start off. However, they should not be penalty-free, pvp-free hi-sec shelters for experienced players. There should be a price for staying totally out of the PvP side of the game. My solution?
25% tax on EVERYTHING. Every trade, ever sale, every purchase, everything. Everything done by a member of a newbie corp should cost you. Want to forego the penalty? Form a 1-man corporation or join a carebear... er, hi-security PC empire corporation. Run the risk of being wardecced to make profits or don't whine.
It's past time for safe easy money without penalty to end. The current scenario is only going to get worse when macrominers get the improved cargo holds: what if their profits vanished, or they became wardeccable? I know of some players who will accept a 25% tax to retain the privilege (don't think it's not!) of being immune to corporate warfare. Those who don't want to pay are the ones who want to have their cake and eat it too.
So whatcha think?
Sure, if you want to hide out in NPC Corps, pay the price.
But, with this change... If you want to live the life of a pirate or outlaw, pay the price as well.
Make it so Sec Standing affects your ability to dock and clone jump in regard to all NPC stations. If you can't fly there without getting shot at by the local authorities, you can't dock anywhere in that system. Since the station owners don't want to upset the local law enforcement.
Make it so personal/Corporate standing affects your ability to receive station services. If the Corp that owns the staion doesn't really like you, make them charge you significantly more to use their services proportional to your standing, ie: repair, medical, research, tax rate on market items and etc. If you standing torward them is bad enough for them to want to shoot at you, you can't dock or clone jump either.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
MetaForge Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.09.12 06:53:00 -
[12]
NPC corps should be home for faction warfare enthusiasts who want solo game in GM-managed organization. If they do not join faction warfare events, do not run fw missions, do not get any fw points, medals, whatevers, do not perform fw related industrial tasks ("Supply the Repulic Fleet with 20 breachers our noob builder brother!") or anything, they shall be taxed, limited or kicked if technically possible.
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Blazing Fire
Interstellar Operations Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.09.12 07:28:00 -
[13]
If someone wants to get people out of the NPC corps, (not that I want to for any reason), I can suggest making most of the skills untrainable if you are in NPC corp. No taxes or othet stuff. If you want to advance in the game, go to player owned corp. But I don'n see the point, realy. Some people prefer to be on thier own. And what will stop them to make 1 man corps? If war deced or whatever, they just leave it and make new.
Blazing Fire CEO Interstellar Operations Incorporated Corp web site
Recruitment Looking for new EVE players
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Cornucopian
Gallente Dutch Omega United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.12 08:00:00 -
[14]
Originally by: BCBArclight How about an incrementable rise to tax for every month, say: 0% - first 3 months 20%- 3-6 40%- 7th month .... .... 100% at the 10 month or 1 year mark etc.
Should be enough time for the player to get his feet and move on.
signed, but make it like this:
first 14 days: 0% first month after trail 14 days: 5% second month: 15% third month: 45%
this would make it easy at the start, but impossible in the long run. ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer."
Originally by: Royaldo
complete win by Cornucopian!
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LordZark
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Posted - 2007.09.12 09:55:00 -
[15]
I think this is the same topic as allways. "Buhu, i can't shoot at everything that is moving under the sun,so CCP help me and force them in PvP!". Have you ever thought of the idea that there are people not interessted in PvP? Have you? What whould you say, if CCP whould go the other way. You have to pay for every PvP-encounter 25%-tax of the victims total shipvalue? Oh i can here the "righteous outcry" of all the poor PvPlers and Pirates .
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LeGlt
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.12 10:12:00 -
[16]
Edited by: LeGlt on 12/09/2007 10:14:08 That system just wouldnt really work at all, as a main could just send ISK to ther alts.
If you really want to punish people hiding in NPC corps, they should have greater restrictions.
1. They should not be allowed to mine - out goes the macro mining crowd from their safe havens, free to be war declared etc etc. It wouldn't cripple on a newbies fun, because they would have more fun doing anything and everything but mining - seriously, for those who ain't AFK/Macro who enjoys it anyway? Their mining gear should be trainable and pilotable, but unable to turn the mining modules on unless they join a player corp
2. They should not be allowed to engage another ship in combat, especially in low sec. They should be allowed to lock targets, but their weapons also should have a 'safety' on. Bye bye to the wimps ganking people and being un-declareable Of course if someone else attacked them first or they have kill rights or locked onto them they should be allowed to shoot though.
When they rejoin a NPC corp, the restrictions should be reactivated. __________________________ Nice forum - I'll take it! |
Haerana
The Republican Guard The Sundering
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Posted - 2007.09.12 11:55:00 -
[17]
i played the trial. then i went and played a other mmorpg for a year. then i got bored and came back to eve and reactived my old account to see if i could find anybody i still played. at this point i had been in FNA for over a year. i then spent another 3months or so in it getting to know people getting my skills up making some cash and exploring the game before deciding i wanted a new corp... if your ideas were implemented i would have come back and either quit straight away or had to remake my char totally losing the skills i already had (maybe not alot at 2weeks old nowadays but i had basic learnings and had left frig 5 when trial ended so had that to more like 3weeks skills which back then did take alot of time)
I still know people who are in FNA... not everybody wants to play the game like you. nor should they. i am friends with a corp FULL of carebears who could careless for pvp 99% of the time. they like running missions and the industry side of the game. why should they be forced into the pvp side if thats not what they enjoy? i swear you try and force anybody in eve to do pvp and ccp is gonna lose alot of business. or maybe the server will just go the way of the chinese server where 1 huge corp owns all of 0.0 because it hires people to fight for it :D :P
Either way messing around with people who want to play solo or live in a newbie corp is stupid on so many levels. If there is a lil lamer in a npc corp constantly attacking you and killing you then a) LEARN how to not get killed by the lil tart and b) realise that who cares? Hes a lil sissy in a npc corp your better than them simply because they are a sissys.... ofc im not saying YOUR better than them. as obviously thinking that taxing newbies is a good idea well hmmmm ;)
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Kempeth
Gallente Thunderbolts
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Posted - 2007.09.12 11:58:00 -
[18]
Originally by: BCBArclight How about an incrementable rise to tax for every month, say: 0% - first 3 months 20%- 3-6 40%- 7th month .... .... 100% at the 10 month or 1 year mark etc.
Should be enough time for the player to get his feet and move on.
This is a very good idea! While it gives the new players a profitable environment to start their career it would still make staying in NPC corps very expensive for older players.
I think I'd even go as far as kicking players from newbie corps after 3-6 months or so. They would be sent to a wardeccable NPC corp kinda like an employment agency...
I myself am a carebear but IMO NPC corps should seriously be nerfed. They are meant as a springboard for new players and they should be nothing else. There are more than enough corps to join in EVE. The whole "some folks are just not interested in PVP" argument doesn't count. I'm not interested in it either but still think everybody should have to live with it. This is EVE... ---------------------------------------------- The glass is neither half full nor half empty. It's just twice as big as it need to be... |
Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2007.09.12 12:38:00 -
[19]
The biggest carebears I know grew a sack a long time ago and took of their own training wheels. Nothing we try and do in regards to ISK is going to stop some folks from staying in the NPC corp. I like the idea, but there are serious issues - namely mining. Tax only affects those who kill NPCs for their ISK, anyone who mines is still making every penny they earn.
I suggest that a not unreasonable tax - as an isk sink - be introduced to the NPC corps. Let's say 10% flat rate, which seems to be about the average for player corps. I then propose that all refining efforts within the NPC corporations are based off flat zero standings - meaning that to be a refiner or builder in an NPC corp is ultimately self defeating and should seek to leave at the nearest opportunity. Neither of these would harm new players, as until you have a good few skills under your belt you'll never make a bean from industry other than mining and 10% is a reasonable level of tax regardless of your character's age.
This way, people have an incentive to leave.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.12 13:40:00 -
[20]
Have any of you ever heard of "sandbox" and considered what it means?
Simply: We don't HAVE to play like you do. Eve is a sandbox, CCP has said so many times. They have ALSO said that not everyone wants to pew-pew, and that not everyone wants to be in a corp, etc etc etc.
Time to play the game and quit griping about how others play their game.
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
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Slax Kalimatar
Minmatar Cyber Rebels
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Posted - 2007.09.12 13:57:00 -
[21]
well sounds really more like a whining.
how about this. ccp introduces a fleet officer npc for each npc corp which can randomly wardec pvp corps.
would you be happy now, if you have 500 npc corp pilots on you, totally random chosen and they will sprayed "thank you" on their ship when they podding you?
i guess your answer will be "no".
so no to tax in npc corp.
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i take
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Posted - 2007.09.12 15:25:00 -
[22]
Edited by: i take on 12/09/2007 15:25:37 YES TY
although it shouldn't go on new players
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Ilvan
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Posted - 2007.09.12 18:33:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Ilvan on 12/09/2007 18:33:32
Originally by: Cedric Diggory
This way, people have an incentive to leave.
Yeah, an incentive to leave... the game.
Here's a fresh idea: mind your own goddamn business.
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Shassandra
Gallente Kinetic Vector Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.09.12 20:35:00 -
[24]
I wouldn't mind having a tax implemented on NPC corps, and this is why:
PC corps use taxes to get a little extra income. I know my own corporation uses taxes to get the isk for the offices we hold around Empire. Yes, PC corps earn money in other ways as well, but that's besides the point in this discussion.
How do NPC corps get their money? Through Trade. Do they pay taxes to the local government of which they are aligned? I would think so yes, otherwise the 4 factions wouldn't exist because they'd have no money to defend themselves. Would any CEO not want to earn a little extra money for his corporation? I can't see why they shouldn't. It's simple market economics.
So what is the reason why there are no taxes in NPC corps when it does lower the income said corps earn by quite a big amount? I can understand they'd want to limit their taxes, especially for recently educated pod pilots, but over a longer period of time I don't understand why they wouldn't want to cash in on their employees. (and yes. I pay taxes! Why don't they?)
Of course, these questions we can now pose Dr.EyjoG :)
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.09.12 21:01:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Captian Internet But if people stop hiding their hauler alts in npc corps the suicide ganking problem is greatly reduced
How? As they will be suiciding ganking people in player corporations instead of NPC corporations?
Begin in a player corporation don't change anything for a suicide ganker.
I am in a player corporation and my viator has been scanned at least 1 hundred of times by people not using passive targeters, I am not even trying to guess the number of times it has been scanned with passive targeteers.
So don't try to sell the tale that people will wardeck you instead of suicide ganking.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.09.12 21:07:00 -
[26]
Originally by: LeGlt Edited by: LeGlt on 12/09/2007 10:14:08 That system just wouldnt really work at all, as a main could just send ISK to ther alts.
If you really want to punish people hiding in NPC corps, they should have greater restrictions.
1. They should not be allowed to mine - out goes the macro mining crowd from their safe havens, free to be war declared etc etc. It wouldn't cripple on a newbies fun, because they would have more fun doing anything and everything but mining - seriously, for those who ain't AFK/Macro who enjoys it anyway? Their mining gear should be trainable and pilotable, but unable to turn the mining modules on unless they join a player corp
2. They should not be allowed to engage another ship in combat, especially in low sec. They should be allowed to lock targets, but their weapons also should have a 'safety' on. Bye bye to the wimps ganking people and being un-declareable Of course if someone else attacked them first or they have kill rights or locked onto them they should be allowed to shoot though.
When they rejoin a NPC corp, the restrictions should be reactivated.
Remember to ask fo the "I win" button in your ship next time.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.09.12 21:18:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Shassandra I wouldn't mind having a tax implemented on NPC corps, and this is why:
PC corps use taxes to get a little extra income. I know my own corporation uses taxes to get the isk for the offices we hold around Empire. Yes, PC corps earn money in other ways as well, but that's besides the point in this discussion.
Notice what you have written here: "my own corporation uses taxes to get the isk for the offices we hold around Empire". As I don't think you rent those offices as a godwill gesturen in the regards of the corporation owning the station, I suppose you get some return from them, like my corp do for the offices we rent.
NPC corp members can't rent offices, can't set up pos, cant do any of the activityes limited to player corps, so why they should pay like player corps?
If a tax is implemented for NPC corps I pretend the right for players to leave all corporations. The NPC corps are an instrument for CCP to keep the players in contact, not a needed structure. It is simply that CCP don't like to put several thousand of player on a single channell called "unaffiliated players", so they instead divide them in 12 NPC corporations.
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2007.09.13 01:37:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Shassandra I wouldn't mind having a tax implemented on NPC corps, and this is why:
PC corps use taxes to get a little extra income. I know my own corporation uses taxes to get the isk for the offices we hold around Empire. Yes, PC corps earn money in other ways as well, but that's besides the point in this discussion.
How do NPC corps get their money? Through Trade. Do they pay taxes to the local government of which they are aligned? I would think so yes, otherwise the 4 factions wouldn't exist because they'd have no money to defend themselves. Would any CEO not want to earn a little extra money for his corporation? I can't see why they shouldn't. It's simple market economics.
So what is the reason why there are no taxes in NPC corps when it does lower the income said corps earn by quite a big amount? I can understand they'd want to limit their taxes, especially for recently educated pod pilots, but over a longer period of time I don't understand why they wouldn't want to cash in on their employees. (and yes. I pay taxes! Why don't they?)
Of course, these questions we can now pose Dr.EyjoG :)
NPC Corps (school corps especially) make money off skillbook sales. One Caldari Carrier skillbook will keep the State War Academy in training Ibises for their cadets for a long time.
NPC Corps are nerfed enough, no POS, no flagging to corp when stolen from, little in terms of shared resources. . . The old vets there who answer 'how do I fly my ship' and 'why is the flashy red guy shooting me?' and 'why is Jita slow' 500 times are as much an aid to rookie pilots as STAR in the Rookie Help channel. Taking a quarter of their income and making most enterprises unprofitable is a fine way to repay their loyalty -------------------------------------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
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Posted - 2007.09.13 04:20:00 -
[29]
People mention NPC corps and all I hear are cries about the new guys. The problem isn't them per say its the hauler alts, scout alts, etc. that are the problem.
Local Thread 107-b,War ,Navigation Shortcuts |
Kempeth
Gallente Thunderbolts
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Posted - 2007.09.13 10:19:00 -
[30]
The basic problem of all the distaste on NPC corps many players have it that they provide an unfair advantage (not wardeccable) compared to normal corps. I agree that this should not change, because it would just make no sense. I doubt the gallente federation would let a corp enter their system that has wardecced one of their member corporations... And this would make the war declaration mostly useless. Put at the same time it is unlikely that the Center for Advanced Studies would condone ore thievery or collaboration with suicide gankers...
Which brings me to an interesting alternative: Making the Newbie corps staff-operated (GM/ISD/idontknow). This way characters not conforming to the rules of the corp could be expelled, like they would in any player corp. Above mentioned Veteran players who help Newbies would be prime choices to help organize such a corp. ---------------------------------------------- The glass is neither half full nor half empty. It's just twice as big as it need to be... |
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