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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.09.11 23:04:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Akita T on 11/09/2007 23:05:08 Ok, I know, I know, NORMALLY, "blah blah devblog discutions should stay in the devblog discution thread" etc. But this is so out-of-whack with the blog (short of the quote below, nothing in common) that it just doesn't belong there.
Quote: The home-away-from-home-tech-2-battleship
The long-range and high-versatility Battleship nicknamed the "Violators". Their versatility will work for many play styles but we also wanted something which would work for PvE play styles. This doesn't mean they will work well for only mission runners, so there is no need to brand them with the misnomer of the "mission ship".
Long-range is not a reference to weapons range but the ships ability to go deep into enemy territory and stay there for extended periods. It is not a HAC either
However, there's a very interesting aspect about that spacific wording that I haven't seen addressed yet, and it sounds very intriguing the more I look at it. So, this is a speculation about what a "Violator class" battleship's special abilities would be like, or rather said, what we would like. ___
For starters, the "go deep, stay long" part. I can only imagine that working properly in THREE ways:
A. reliance on drones and "ammo-less" weapons (which is kind of a no-go for Caldari/Minmatar ships, and only partially valid for Gallente or Amarr) B. a huge cargohold (not very likely to be useful unless you want to make this ship a cross between a batleship and a mini-freighter) C. ability to manufacture ammo/drones out of either loot or mined ore (which sounds preposterous for a combat ship) __
Option A is out of the question, or at least I think so. I mean, come on, it sounds nice to have a special bonus of "no ammo consumption", but it's absurd.
Option B is... well, creepy on one side, quite intriguing on the other. A huge cargohold (I was thinking at least 5k base, maybe even 10k) would take care of most ammo problems. The only issue would be with ability to load drones in dronebay from cargohold "while in space". It might however be likely that with the introduction of "drone bandwidth", we will just get a merger between dronebay and cargohold anyway, so it's a non-issue again.
Option C is awesome, even if it's an *2 manufacture time, +100% waste single manufacture line and a 1% base refine POS-like refinery, and even if it requires Rorqual-like deployment (but this would mean it also needs the ability to mine ice, or the module should be "powered" by minerals or manufacturable charges rather than ice products). However, I fear that might be slightly too overpowered (on the logistics side), but very underpowered (or downright useless) for regular PvE, especially in empire space.
__
So, what do you think ? Any of the above ? None of the above but something else entirely ?
_
EVE GOLDEN RULES | Char creation guide | Stack-nerfing explained |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.09.11 23:08:00 -
[2]
Big cargo bay it is, methinks. The other two things you suggested seem a tad silly, tbh.
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Orin Fatch
General Mayhem Inc. Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.11 23:14:00 -
[3]
weaponless mini jump bridge platforms with mini doomsdays (huge smartbombs) and an awesome tank. ---- There will be bloody mayhem.. GMI Recruitment |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Blood Corsair's The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.09.11 23:14:00 -
[4]
All the options are pretty crappy. Especially #3.
Maybe they get fairly large cargo holds (1-2km3), large drone bays, and an ammunition consumption bonus for all weapons (-50% ammo use). Probably have to round up on the ammo use, but whatever.
Probably need to reduce cap charge use by 50% too along with 'ammo', since it's basically the same thing. Maybe we even see a 75% reduction in ammo use. What about a special role bonus for the reduction of GSC size when in cargo? Maybe the ships could hold 3x GSCs to store loot in.
Maybe they get a 4th rig slot and more calibration points. More efficient use of heat?
[Video]Blood Corsairs - Day One |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.09.11 23:19:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus All the options are pretty crappy. Especially #3.
Maybe they get fairly large cargo holds (1-2km3), large drone bays, and an ammunition consumption bonus for all weapons (-50% ammo use). Probably have to round up on the ammo use, but whatever.
Probably need to reduce cap charge use by 50% too along with 'ammo', since it's basically the same thing. Maybe we even see a 75% reduction in ammo use. What about a special role bonus for the reduction of GSC size when in cargo? Maybe the ships could hold 3x GSCs to store loot in.
Maybe they get a 4th rig slot and more calibration points. More efficient use of heat?
Someone brought up the idea that the ships could have half their turret/missile bays, but with damage bonuses that make the DPS equal to the T1 full-turret ships. That would take a large chunk of ammo/cap consumption out, plus would free up "utility slots" a lot.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Blood Corsair's The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.09.11 23:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: Bellum Eternus All the options are pretty crappy. Especially #3.
Maybe they get fairly large cargo holds (1-2km3), large drone bays, and an ammunition consumption bonus for all weapons (-50% ammo use). Probably have to round up on the ammo use, but whatever.
Probably need to reduce cap charge use by 50% too along with 'ammo', since it's basically the same thing. Maybe we even see a 75% reduction in ammo use. What about a special role bonus for the reduction of GSC size when in cargo? Maybe the ships could hold 3x GSCs to store loot in.
Maybe they get a 4th rig slot and more calibration points. More efficient use of heat?
Someone brought up the idea that the ships could have half their turret/missile bays, but with damage bonuses that make the DPS equal to the T1 full-turret ships. That would take a large chunk of ammo/cap consumption out, plus would free up "utility slots" a lot.
Very good point. Actually, that's quite awesome. Probably have to have their high slots reduced to 5 though- 4x guns (8x effectively) and then another 4x high slots for nos/neut? Yikes!
Each ship needs damage bonuses to their racial weapons however. Otherwise you get ships like autocannon Apocs and AC Myrms. Effective, but lame.
One issue is the graphic look of things with only half the turrets. A Mega or Hype with only 4x turrets fit looks lame.
[Video]Blood Corsairs - Day One |
Cpt Fina
Insult to Injury
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Posted - 2007.09.11 23:25:00 -
[7]
Quote: go deep, stay long
Doesn't say fight forever. It could simply mean that they'll be able to fit a cov-ops cloak, not be scanable, and therefor be able to stay long.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.09.11 23:52:00 -
[8]
You're confusing them with the "Black Ops class" ships. Those are the ones likely to fit cloaks (probably able to fit covops cloaks), and those are the ones with mini-jump-bridges (only allowing other BlackOps ships passage). _
EVE GOLDEN RULES | Char creation guide | Stack-nerfing explained |
Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
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Posted - 2007.09.12 00:08:00 -
[9]
Long range and versatility. We're all going to be way the hell off, but I'll take a shot in the dark and say it can refit in space, possibly by entering a siege mode-esque state. You can loot ammunition, I guess, but that won't sustain you for long. You can't cut back on weapon ammunition consumption (It drains half a missile every shot?) so I'm betting on massive cargo-holds. At least a couple km^3. This could be loaded with every mod you'd ever need, ****loads of ammunition, or a hell of a lot of cap boosters for PVP.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.09.12 01:36:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 12/09/2007 01:37:42 It's tough to reconcile the various bits and pieces we've gotten. My hope (but not my prediction) is that they'll be BS with various mods that make them more viable for solo work outside of hisec. For instance, good agility, low sig, decent drone bays, generous fitting...besides big ol' cargo holds. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
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Atama Cardel
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.12 02:21:00 -
[11]
Option C sounds kinda cool personally
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Haffrage
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.12 02:46:00 -
[12]
Give me refitting and ability to repair overheated modules and I don't care if it has 0 cargobay tbh.
T2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers | Eve GUI Tweaks |
Mastin Dragonfly
Absolutely No Return The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.09.12 04:58:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus and an ammunition consumption bonus for all weapons (-50% ammo use). Probably have to round up on the ammo use, but whatever.
You can't shoot a bullet without shooting a bullet, this is EVE, not a magical fantasy land.
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Andre Ricard
Gallente Templars of Space Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.09.12 05:14:00 -
[14]
no, but you can dramatically increase both the damage and the ROF. same DPS, less ammo =)
1010011010 |
twit brent
Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.09.12 05:15:00 -
[15]
All this less ammo usage stuff would realy make amarr miss out, which actually wouldnt surprise me.
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Bio Break
O RLY corp YTMND.
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Posted - 2007.09.12 05:25:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Bio Break on 12/09/2007 05:25:21 I suggested option C earlier - no one even took me on.
Makes sense tbh, given the "home-away-from-home" description.
edit - spelling as ive had no coffee yet
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Wideen
Resurrection R i s e
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Posted - 2007.09.12 05:29:00 -
[17]
I think it simply is a larger cargohold, not necessarily huge, as 5k filled with ammo and perhaps partially cap boosters would just be too much. Even if the new cargohold space is just +1k it will suffice for extended operations.
Originally by: P'uck I know somebody who heard somebody say that an Osprey defeated Chuck Norris. Twice. Need I say more?
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Feynt Rovigo
Adventurers
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Posted - 2007.09.12 06:05:00 -
[18]
I think ship will have a huge ammo bay that can only carry ammo.
it would be a different part of ship, much like drone bay is nowadays.
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Bardi MecAuldnis
Amarr Heretic Army Fang Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.12 06:10:00 -
[19]
Originally by: twit brent All this less ammo usage stuff would realy make amarr miss out, which actually wouldnt surprise me.
Maybe they'll give us "19.8% reduction in laser cap usage per level" --- Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!! |
Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
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Posted - 2007.09.12 06:37:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Bardi MecAuldnis
Originally by: twit brent All this less ammo usage stuff would realy make amarr miss out, which actually wouldnt surprise me.
Maybe they'll give us "19.8% reduction in laser cap usage per level"
My cap usage would be so low the bonus might actually be worthwhile for once.
But hey, if they do get 5km^3 cargo bays, I designate a couple units for focusing crystals and I can cap boost like no tomorrow in PVP.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.09.12 07:25:00 -
[21]
CCP already stated a few things about the violators:
- bigger cargo holds.
- lock faster
- At least some of them will have better tracking. (you can expect bonuses like 7.5% tracking for gunboats and -5% explosion radius for missileboats)
- More utility slots, for things like salvagers and tractor beams. (maybe fewer weapons with more damage bonuses, or more than 8 high slots. Fewer weapons also makes sense for reduced ammo/cap usage).
Aside for that, some speculations:
- Slightly better resists, but nothing like an HAS or command ship.
- More Hitpoints.
- Easier fitting.
- A better cap recharge. ------------------------------------------
What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
Zoppo Trump
Amarr Omiracon Technologies
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Posted - 2007.09.12 07:46:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Akita T
... B. a huge cargohold (not very likely to be useful unless you want to make this ship a cross between a batleship and a mini-freighter)
...
Option B is... well, creepy on one side, quite intriguing on the other. A huge cargohold (I was thinking at least 5k base, maybe even 10k) would take care of most ammo problems. The only issue would be with ability to load drones in dronebay from cargohold "while in space". It might however be likely that with the introduction of "drone bandwidth", we will just get a merger between dronebay and cargohold anyway, so it's a non-issue again.
Not nessecary at all. Just give them an extended dronebay too, you cant use more than five heavies at a time, everything else stored will be for replacement-role only.
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2007.09.12 07:47:00 -
[23]
What're the chances of CCP including an "Ammo Bay"?
Y'know,, drone bay can only hold drones, Ammo Bay can only hold charges.
Improve Market Competition!
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.09.12 07:57:00 -
[24]
www.buyyouriskhere.com has reduced prices for 20% already.
@ devs pretty much
While I agree there's need for some other BS class ships (you have like 4 cruisers, 2bc, 2hacs, 2recons, 2cs,logistic) as cruiser sized, you don't have pretty much anything bs sized...
-------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
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Scordite
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Posted - 2007.09.12 08:09:00 -
[25]
Huge cargo hold = more isk lost when blobbed.
----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead. |
gavhriel
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Posted - 2007.09.12 12:53:00 -
[26]
I hope they change the stupid "violator" name ....
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.09.12 13:04:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Shadowsword CCP already stated a few things about the violators:
- bigger cargo holds. - lock faster - At least some of them will have better tracking. (you can expect bonuses like 7.5% tracking for gunboats and -5% explosion radius for missileboats) - More utility slots, for things like salvagers and tractor beams. (maybe fewer weapons with more damage bonuses, or more than 8 high slots. Fewer weapons also makes sense for reduced ammo/cap usage).
Aside for that, some speculations:
- Slightly better resists, but nothing like an HAS or command ship. - More Hitpoints. - Easier fitting. - A better cap recharge.
Can you give a link to any of those things ? I can't seem to be able to find them anywhere, either search croaked up on me or they phrased it differently (or I made a mistake, heh). The explosion-radius bonus on battleships... that's a non-bonus if you use torpedoes (due to how explosion radius bonuses work, or better said the fact they never affect rockets/HAMs/torps), and I don't like cruise missiles on battleships that much, to be honest (especially bad if the Khanid BS would be a torpedo-biased boat, adding such a bonus would be useless UNLESS they rework the bonusing system so that torps actually get affected by that specific bonus).
Hmm...4 weapons with a 25% per level damage bonus at L5 = 9 weapons unbonused (or slightly more than 7x 5% bonused weapons with L5). That could actually work quite well, you know. Both for guns (especially lasers) and launchers. And at the same time, not be insanely overpowered. Just a side-note... no RoF bonuses on any of the ships then. That would kind of defeat the purpose.
For the resists/HP, to be honest, I'd love a 20-30% "across the board" resists bonus (as opposed to the 75/50 to just two resists a HAC/AF has) and absolutely no HP increase (but apply that resists bonus to HULL too instead). Overall, it does translate into more effective HP anyway, but also preserves the "typical holes" in shield/armor. _
EVE GOLDEN RULES | Char creation guide | Stack-nerfing explained |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
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Posted - 2007.09.12 13:24:00 -
[28]
I actually mentioned in another thread a while ago that it would make sense to give those ships fewer weapons with much bigger damage thus freeing up hi-slots for utility.
Dev's want them geared towards being very PvE-minded: Capacitor and sustainability are keywords, with the ability to reach the numerous PvE targets fast and even at range.
Also I'm sure these will have a larger-but-not-cap-booster-insane cargobay, larger dronebay (restricted with the bandwith attribute) and a much better capacitor recharge to give these mission ships endurance. Also regarding bonus I am pretty sure they will have have bonus to tracking (mentionen in an interview) and similar things to help in PvE. Stuff like targeting fast and at long ranges would also be options (just hope they don't outrange sniperships by much).
These bonus will ofcourse have it's use in PvP but will be primarily be very usefull in PvE... - I'm a nice guy!!
MOA is NOT UGLY!!! It's A FREAK SHOW!!!! |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
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Posted - 2007.09.12 13:26:00 -
[29]
BTW - Eve database is BUILT on max 8 modules in each rack, so I doubt you'll see more than 8 hi-slots...
There have recently been links to an Interview somewhere else about these statements... - I'm a nice guy!!
MOA is NOT UGLY!!! It's A FREAK SHOW!!!! |
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.09.12 13:40:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Akita T
Can you give a link to any of those things ? I can't seem to be able to find them anywhere, either search croaked up on me or they phrased it differently (or I made a mistake, heh).
http://eve.warcry.com/news/view/76434
"The other type of Tech 2 ship we haven't come up with a name yet, but it's going to be like a mission runner battleship. A huge number of our player base are not these big PvPers, they are mission runners for their empire, and you know doing their thing. While the ships will be really good at PvP, they will have things like bigger cargo bays for loot. They will have better locking times, better tracking, a lot of utility slots. Things that if you are a mission runner, what would be your ideal battle ship." ------------------------------------------
What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
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