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Khan Soriano
Beyond Divinity Inc Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.09.12 15:07:00 -
[1]
So now we all know we will have more ships that are supposed to be 'covert' in some way.
That brings me to the eternal question of: Why the hell do we need to see pilots in local chat?????
How do you actually prepare covert operations in your Black Ops BS if the second you all jump into the system everybody and their mother knows that local went from 2 NPCers to 10ppl, all from some different alliance/corporation???
If CCP is afraid to implement such change (make it work like alliance chat ie. if you speak on it then you become visible) because it would make the game too hard for some of their client base (yes fluffy carebears & mission *****s I'm talking about you) then at least consider doing it in 0.0, its supposed to be this 'hard and hostile space', remember?
The way it is now, loosing a ship while hunting rats in 0.0 is almost impossible if you're not a total idiot and recent heavy usage of cloaked BS only makes it even easier (now even total idiots are pirate proof).
I'd also like to know if you plan on doing the whole 'make cloaked ships scannable in some way' idea, since it seems like a good time to do it. ----- Arbitrator - Life & Death |
Saint Luka
The Illuminati. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.09.12 15:15:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Saint Luka on 12/09/2007 15:14:53 Would simply destroy the game for alot of people except carebears (yes thats right.)
Pirates/hunters would waste several hours to the point of bordem and /wrist or quit.
0.0 warefare would just turn into a ghey fest.
Carebears would be happy if they knew how to use a scanner and stayed aligned.
Removing local is an incredibly stupid move.
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theteck
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Posted - 2007.09.12 15:30:00 -
[3]
the local its important tactical information
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Rake Mizar
Freelance Assassins
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Posted - 2007.09.12 15:35:00 -
[4]
Ah this old chestnut...
Why local can't give you a real-time count of people in the system without identifying them unless they speak is my question. This wouldn't make it impossible to figure out if you have a potential hostile in system, but it would take more work than current which is zero.
WTB: T2 Exotic Dancers |
Mystic Pete
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Posted - 2007.09.12 15:37:00 -
[5]
The topic that just keeps coming back.
I've heard lots for people with fair points wanting to keep local but my gut feeling is still get rid of it. Maybe only in 0.0 as you suggest.
As for the scanning cloaked ships, without local you could potentially get in visual range of a ship before it saw you and cloaked by which time it would be too late. So for now I say leave cloaking as it is, especially if were considering removing local
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Ed Anger
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.09.12 15:42:00 -
[6]
isn't it more fun to jump cloaked into a system and watch everyone freak out? local ftw
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Nicholas Barker
MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2007.09.12 15:46:00 -
[7]
without local it would take hours from empire to the outer regions if you're having to scan every gate for a possible bubble and smart bombing ship. ---
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Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.09.12 15:48:00 -
[8]
No, don't remove local. Don't alter it either. And I seem to have lost the battle against cloaked ships, as the new patch will not do what was needed and will do things it should not do.
In my opinion, the only problem with cloaks was the 23/7 afk cloaked ship in system. The reasoning has been presented before so I won't start that argument up again. I personally felt that cloaks should use fuel, like Heavy Water, or overheat or something, so that you needed to be active at the keyboard to remain cloaked in system. Unfortunately, the new patch info seems to indicate that the argument was lost on CCP, and that other nerfing has been chosen as an answer. Oh, well - Win Some Lose Some.
But removing Local is a disaster in the making for many playstyles. The simplest example I can give is the CareBear one: You would never know if space was secure, which means you are either sitting ducks or you need to reduce your efficiency on Mining/Ratting/Missioning by devoting some resources to potential PVP threats.
From an Alliance-building standpoint, no local will mean that you cannot protect/defend/patrol your space. And would not BOTH sides be upset if two 50-man fleets just passed in the night because they couldn't see each other?
I believe that those promoting 'No Local' believe that their personal playstyle will be enhanced by the lack of information. I don't believe that the promoters have objectively looked at the repercussions for ALL playstyles.
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Ed Gein
Shadow Squadron Returns
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Posted - 2007.09.12 15:56:00 -
[9]
Oveur already said they plan on removing it at some point and replacing it some game mechanic at some point.....
I am assuming no one watched him speak on the alliance tournament in this thread. --------------------------------------------------------------------- What do you call the person that brings a gun to a knife fight?
The Winner. |
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.09.12 15:59:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Khan Soriano So now we all know we will have more ships that are supposed to be 'covert' in some way.
That brings me to the eternal question of: Why the hell do we need to see pilots in local chat?????
If CCP remove the local, most people ratting in 0.0 will either get ganked one time too many, or get bored refreshing their scanner every 5 seconds, then return make their moeny in high-sec.
Then the pvpers supporting the removing of local will cry, because they won't have many targets left.
This is basically what happened when scanning mission-runners in low-sec was a matter of seconds.
It's a good thing CCP try to think a little more on the long-term. ------------------------------------------
What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
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eve warrior
Minmatar Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2007.09.12 16:00:00 -
[11]
I think they should make a New Skill, this skill would allow you as the pilot to Bribe the ppl running the Stargate you are jumping though. Lvl 1 could give you 1min before you are seen in local, Lvl 2 could give you 2min ect...
The skill could go under the Social skills. At lvl 5 you would still only have 5min max to do what he needed before been in the local chat but this would be more than enuf time to gather Covert ops intel, move a small gang though several local systems undetected. Could add a new dimention in Covert ops, Intel gathering and Guerilla warfare.
I find this might be a good Compromise betweet No Local and Local.
Just an Idear,
Eve Warrior
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ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles 3asy Company
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Posted - 2007.09.12 16:01:00 -
[12]
Well i think that is a great suggestion and agree completely. The comparison with alliance chat would work just fine i beleive that that is how it should work.
www.eve-players.com |
Khan Soriano
Beyond Divinity Inc Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.09.12 16:14:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Saint Luka Edited by: Saint Luka on 12/09/2007 15:14:53 Would simply destroy the game for alot of people except carebears (yes thats right.)
Pirates/hunters would waste several hours to the point of bordem and /wrist or quit.
Have you ever pirated yourself because from what you've said I'm pretty sure you are talking about a subject you have no experience with?
Why would pirates quit the game? One of their more useful tools would still be in the game (statistics->show pilots in space). I don't need some stupid local chat to tell me if anyone is in the system because I have to scan anyway to know who is doing what and what prey is available to me.
How is current situation better for pirates? I enter the system, spot 5 people on local, they do the same and warp to POS. I still got nothing to catch and I'm bored too but you don't see me quitting the game do you?!?!?! But if we turn local I might get lucky because one of them got*****y and didn't spam the scanner.
Originally by: Saint Luka 0.0 warefare would just turn into a ghey fest.
Hello, 0.0 warfare is ghey fest already!!! Now its only gatecamps and blob warfare, because to actually catch something on belts is like winning the lottery.
Originally by: Saint Luka Carebears would be happy if they knew how to use a scanner and stayed aligned.
Good carebears spam scanner anyway, but what I'm targeting are those that forget to do it and I can't do it right now because local gives me up. ----- Arbitrator - Life & Death |
iiOs
Evil Things
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Posted - 2007.09.12 16:23:00 -
[14]
im all in for removing local or making it like alliance
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Szaman
Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.09.12 16:28:00 -
[15]
Signed Local smells bad. Just get rid of it and get constellation chat insted. It will give recons n cov-ops a new meaning
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Tobizuru
Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.09.12 16:34:00 -
[16]
As I see it when you see a person in Local it means that their "com-links" are online and public. So if you were to shut off your own public communications it would render you hidden to the rest of the system but at the same time you wouldn't know who else is in the system, who is coming in and out and so on. Just somethin' that I thought about when reading the subject. --------------------
If I only had a Face... :'( Sig Edit: Wait wtf is this?! |
Empire marketslave
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Posted - 2007.09.12 16:37:00 -
[17]
the number in local and you only show if you speak is a good idea as long as its only to people currently in the system
lets say your system is JP-007 if you and your gang mates make of 5 out of 5 in local you all say hi so you show up when hey leave it will take them off and if a new person comes in you will notice the number go up
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hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
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Posted - 2007.09.12 16:59:00 -
[18]
Read sig
== Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
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James Swindle
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Posted - 2007.09.12 17:13:00 -
[19]
Didn't read all the threads but couldn't CCP just make it so people who have cloaks activated and/or fitted don't appear in local???
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Heritor
Caldari Polytope
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Posted - 2007.09.12 17:14:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Khan Soriano
Why would pirates quit the game? One of their more useful tools would still be in the game (statistics->show pilots in space). I don't need some stupid local chat to tell me if anyone is in the system because I have to scan anyway to know who is doing what and what prey is available to me.
How is current situation better for pirates? I enter the system, spot 5 people on local, they do the same and warp to POS. I still got nothing to catch and I'm bored too but you don't see me quitting the game do you?!?!?! But if we turn local I might get lucky because one of them got*****y and didn't spam the scanner.
So it ok for you to have a tool that gives you some chance of seeing who is in a system but no tool to help carebears to detect your arrival in system...typical whiner who wants more help to gank carebears
Always where your seatbelt, its far harder for the aliens to abduct you! |
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Jack Jombardo
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Posted - 2007.09.12 17:20:00 -
[21]
it's funny to see how people who like to annoy other peoble are annoyed becouse there is something that prevent there doing :).
for a 0.0 miner it's not funny to be ganged by wannabe Pirates.
for wannabe Pirates it's not funny that there is something working against them ;). (local chat now)
live with it!
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DAV3Y JON3S
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Posted - 2007.09.12 17:31:00 -
[22]
Local is a passive scanner always there always working...Your warp drive shows up on it. It just happens to be on the sme frequency as smack talk.
"Nuff said"
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vipeer
Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2007.09.12 17:55:00 -
[23]
Local chat is one of the best things ingame. It benefits everyone so piwates, please stop whining to remove it.
This is a MMORPG after all and communication is a pivotal part of the game.
As Oveur said himself a big problem of Eve is that you may have 700 ppl in the system that cannot see each other at all in most cases. Local chat partly alleviates that problem.
Leave local is it is. Chaining BoBo in south Feyth:
Your Neutron Blaster Cannon II perfectly strikes Dukath [EVOL]<BOB>(Vindicator), wrecking for 741.0 damage. |
Khan Soriano
Beyond Divinity Inc Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.09.12 21:25:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Heritor
So it ok for you to have a tool that gives you some chance of seeing who is in a system but no tool to help carebears to detect your arrival in system...typical whiner who wants more help to gank carebears
We both would use the same tool (scanner) so nothing is preventing carebears to be careful and not getting ganked, I just think the way its now local only benefits one side and poses a problem for the other.
Originally by: vipeer Local chat is one of the best things ingame. It benefits everyone so piwates, please stop whining to remove it.
This is a MMORPG after all and communication is a pivotal part of the game.
As Oveur said himself a big problem of Eve is that you may have 700 ppl in the system that cannot see each other at all in most cases. Local chat partly alleviates that problem.
Leave local is it is.
It would help US communicate on forums if you'd read what I wrote.
If you want to chat with other people on local you'd still be able to do so!!!! Look at alliance chat and the way it works, you don't see anybody in there but you all can talk in your overbloated mIRC client, but once you talk you make yourself visible to anyone there. ----- Arbitrator - Life & Death |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.09.12 21:31:00 -
[25]
Local was meant to be a CHAT channel. Using "local" as an intel tool = metagaming. Exploiting the fear of metagaming "local as intel" users through AFK-cloaking = PURE WIN.
Turning "local" into a "delayed mode" channel would be quite acceptable. _
EVE GOLDEN RULES | Char creation guide | Stack-nerfing explained |
Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2007.09.12 21:31:00 -
[26]
There needs to be some means of knowing if you have hostiles in the neighborhood or .0 would become even more of a blob fest than it is now. Why go anywhere without 100 buddies backing you up when youve no guarantee the other guy doesnt have 100 ships at a safespot waiting to BBQ you.
Unfortunately, as the old adage goes local is the worst solution to the problem, with the exception of all the others. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
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Nicho Void
Gallente Hyper-Nova
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Posted - 2007.09.12 21:40:00 -
[27]
Originally by: vipeer As Oveur said himself a big problem of Eve is that you may have 700 ppl in the system that cannot see each other at all in most cases. Local chat partly alleviates that problem.
As has been pointed out, during the Alliance tournament, Oveur stated that local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat.
Either Oveur is contradicting himself, or one of us has misinformation. I know my source was recorded. ---------------
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Ling Mai
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.09.12 21:40:00 -
[28]
Only one good thing would come from removing local, or pilots from local. Most of the idiot smacktards would finally stfu because they wouldn't know if they there was anyone listening or not. Course, some would prolly continue, and just smack themselves instead.
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Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.09.12 21:53:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Elmicker on 12/09/2007 21:56:42
Quote: Using "local" as an intel tool = metagaming.
How is using an ingame tool, that all players have access to, that is explained thoroughly in the backstory metagaming?
Quote: Turning "local" into a "delayed mode" channel would be quite acceptable.
Yeah, apart from collapsing 0.0 overnight. Fun for level 4 *****s, though.
Originally by: Khan Soriano We both would use the same tool (scanner) so nothing is preventing carebears to be careful and not getting ganked, I just think the way its now local only benefits one side and poses a problem for the other.
Scanner only extends 14AU. Good luck aligning and warping out before that interceptor lands on you. Let's not even start on recon ships...
Local currently provides the hunter and the hunted with exactly the same intel which is equally advantageous to the semi-static hunted and the mobile hunter. Altering it in any way carries far too many repurcussions to ever be viable.
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Zeke Novak
Outlaws N Angels
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Posted - 2007.09.12 22:01:00 -
[30]
Posting here to counteract the vocal minority who want local removed. It works quite well as it is, whiners who can't gank as easily as they like be damned.
-- Reality.sys corrupt. Reboot Universe? (y/n/q) |
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