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Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
93
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 07:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
CSM December Summit Minutes wrote:...use of chat as an intel tool (like it is used now where the listing of people in local gives you intel about who is in the system). It is CCPGÇÖs desire to fix the chat system but currently there are no specifics available as lots of intel components in local would need to be split into new tools, etc. The CSM warned that there will be a huge opposition regarding any changes to the local chat but both parties agreed that using a chat channel as an intel tool is not ideal.
The CSM and CCP agree, local needs to go. This is not a thread to debate whether it should go or not, this is an idea's thread on what tools you would like to see implimented to replace local as an intel tool.
In the thread below Nikk Narrel has some good idea's and I just want to recognize his efforts to come up with a system that is balanced.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=58529&find=unread
CSM December Summit Minutes wrote:Cloak Hunters: CCP brought up the possibility of a future cloak-hunting ship or mechanic as a hypothetical; this was described as GÇÿmore like finding a submarine than pulling a blanket offGÇÖ a cloaked ship. The CSM was cautiously positive about the idea of a cloak-hunting vessel of some kind.
This was also mentioned, and I believe that you cannot modify local without implimenting some sort of cat and mouse cloaky hunter. Idea's on this would also be good and I would like to get the perspective of the AFK cloaking community on what would be fun if there had to be an anticloaking ship. There are many threads out there that already cover this topic, if you would like to reiterate please link the thread.
Flame on |
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
93
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 07:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
I personally would like to see a form of Nikk Narrel's idea to replace local. It seems fair and actually gives the advantage to the defenders. Which is the way it should be.
As far as Cloaking systems/Anticloaking systems...
I would like to see cloaks given an add stat; Cloak Harmonics. This will be a base number for all Cloaks; normal cloaks having a value of 1, and covops cloaks a value of 2.
Cloak Harmonics (CH) is basically your ships ability to keep you cloaked essentally reducing your signature radius to 0. Activity levels of the pilot (scanning, moving, etc) lower your harmonics value by a percentage. Harmonics values less then one will cause your signature radius to increase, and eventaully decloaking you at CH 0. CH values of less then 1 will cause your ship to be picked up on d-scan.
CH values will increase overtime, essentially recharging your cloak. If you are not cautious it is possible to scan down a cloaked ship using combat probes, depending on the activity of the cloaker. CH values should be displayed on the UI so that the cloaker is aware of if they are about to decloak.
A new module needs to be introduced for Hics, and a probe for dictors. Cloaking disruption field effects the jump harmonics of cloaked ships(details below), hictors use this like they would use a bubble (same penalties). Range restricted.
Actions that devalue your CH. Remember that conventional cloaks start at 100% and covops start at 200%.
-Using the system scanner with or without probes. 20-40% -Moving. 1-30% -Being on the same grid as an uncloaked ship. Percentage loss based on the highest sensor strength on grid. (Yay a new use for eccm!) -Warping 100% (obviously only applies to covops cloaks) -Cloaking disruption field. 80%
I believe that this will keep the spirit of the cloak as and afk tool in hostile space, with the ability to be caught if you are active. |
Xylorn Hasher
Mean Corp Mean Coalition
19
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Posted - 2012.01.19 08:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
No cloak works good as it is now. Even if i cant kill that Crane on gate it doesnt mean its not possible or should be easier. Cloaky ships even T3 have so many disadvantages already that shouldn't be nerfed more: Low DPS, recalibration times, lower optimal.
Cloaky afkers? It's your paranoya and carebearism a problem not cloaky afkers.
No refreshing local in low and null is great idea.
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Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
93
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 09:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Xylorn Hasher wrote:No cloak works good as it is now. Even if i cant kill that Crane on gate it doesnt mean its not possible or should be easier. Cloaky ships even T3 have so many disadvantages already that shouldn't be nerfed more: Low DPS, recalibration times, lower optimal.
Cloaky afkers? It's your paranoya and carebearism a problem not cloaky afkers.
No refreshing local in low and null is great idea.
CCP wants to impliment a modification to local and is also toying with the idea of a cloaking hunter vessel. I support the full removal of local but know that this is not going to happen. I also feel like cloaks are nerfed enough as is, but IF there has to be an anti-cloak, my idea above would be acceptable to me.
Please relate to the spirit of the thread, instead of assuming that I'm a carebear. Read my posts on the removal of local, they are long just to warn you, there is nothing more that I would like than a complete removal.
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Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
46
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Posted - 2012.01.19 09:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Without Local chat intel we still have the following tools for Intel, DScan, Probes, Overview and visual. For less immediate intel we also have map statistics and websites like Dotlan Evemaps.
DScan
DScan is primarily the tool to replace local Intel for the average pilot.
Having to click this every 2 seconds is not good gameplay. To answer that DScan should be able to be set on a pulse mode that automatically updates with the frequency of those pulses based on the range of the scan, shorter the set range the more frequent the pulses, longer the less frequent. You could add scan angle into this calculation as well, 360 giving less frequent pulses than 180 for instance.
DScan doesn't detect cloaked ships at present and in it's normal mode it should continue that way. However, an alternative mode could be introduced that can see cloaked ships, albeit at some cost. Lets call it overloaded DScans. Any ship can do it, but the increased signal strength makes it impossible to be done cloaked. In this mode cloaked ships will show up on DScan but at the penalty of either decreased range / pulse frequency and/or increased ship signature. Basically I'm envisioning sliding bars of each that a player can set, and to get decent range and pulse frequency will radically increase the ships signature (think MWD) making the ship more easily scanable among other setbacks.
Lastly Dscan could be made a little less clunky, that goes for the whole UI in EVE which still seems awkward and messy.
Probes
Probes are pretty good as is, although not every ship will have them. Deep Space Probes will give you a complete list of every structure and non cloaked ship in the system. I don't think cloaked ships should be added to this, but perhaps flags indicating allied player ships, so the presence of possible non-cloaked hostiles can be more easily determined using these probes.
Other:
Sov structures giving the near equivalent of Local Chat Intel we have now is an idea that's floated about for some time, and I think with strong limitations could be good. One is that such structures are only worthwhile putting up in an alliances most populated and used systems, not every star system they hold sovereignty over. In order for to work they should be very expensive and vulnerable, so that constant active pilot nearby presence is required to protect them from roaming gangs.
Similar pseudo Local Chat intel could be provided to residents of NPC Nullsec with great standing with controlling NPCs (station systems only). Also for FW players in Lowsec if Local Chat is removed there, but based on control over fought over objectives. Low Sec Pirates having a means to deny both sides the objective and thus the improved intel.
For all these I think rather than getting Local Chat Intel back, an equivalent to a Deepspace probe set for player ships that also picks up cloaked ships would be better. Sov holding version would additionally show which ships are allied/blue, NPC Standings based ones would also show which ships also have good NPC standings, and Low Sec FW version would identify ships that are allied militia. Seeing character info would then be limited to line of sight, in the same station, or actively engaging in a chat channel.
Cloak Hunting ship.
My main concerns with this is not the ability to find and uncover a cloaked ship but the context in which that occurs. Principally however it works should not function on Gates, zone camping with a zerg is simply bad game play. Hunting cloaked ships ideally should be a game of cat and mouse, where who's the cat and who's the mouse isn't always clear. I suspect some anti cloak big alliance sov holders will be hoping for it to be more like a Fox Hunt with a zerg of hounds (the cloaky hunters) followed by a zerg of mounted hunters (the blob) with Fox's fate determined from the start, this would likely be game breaking for anyone who flies CovOps ships. Don't have a working suggestion yet. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
101
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 09:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
cloaks are fine, no need for change. |
Blatant Forum Alt
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.01.19 09:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cloaking is only an issue for paranoid carebears who cack themselves whenever afk cloakers sit in local doing them no harm. They need to grow a pair.
Credit to the OP for not stating that local is broken without explanation, have a Blatant Forum Alt like for your troubles. |
Xylorn Hasher
Mean Corp Mean Coalition
19
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Posted - 2012.01.19 09:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
I fully support no refreshing local in null and lowsec system, but i'm against of nerfing cloaks in any way.
Why you may ask? It's simple. It's all about botters. Botting programs extract local chat information from datastream ( Tranquility server - user PC ) for preventing user ship from being ganked. Bot detects new player in system and check standing if it's neutral or red warps to safe and cloak. For the same reason afk cloakers are pain for Botters - they prevent Bots to run.
Remove local chat from game and there will be no botters in Eve. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
228
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 09:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Xylorn Hasher wrote:I fully support no refreshing local in null and lowsec system, but i'm against of nerfing cloaks in any way....
... Bot detects new player in system and check standing if it's neutral or red warps to safe and cloak.
heh |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
529
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 10:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
Xylorn Hasher wrote:Remove local chat from game and there will be no botters in Eve. Fallacy. |
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
228
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 10:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Personally I think the intel-gathering system in EVE could be improved upon by making it a point to reward active intel gathering and risk-taking on the part of both cloaker and ratter. Ratters are given information on the presence of hostiles too easily (removing a large element of surprise from the cloakers), but also have no effective way of forcing cloakers in turn into a reactive mode of play.
1) Local should include all people with blue standings upon entry so players can know right away how many friendly allies are within system. Local for neutrals/hostiles would be delayed.
2) A small yellow button is added to the HUD that lights up for a second or two whenever there is gatefire in a system, giving the active, alert occupant a chance to start scanning nearby for hostiles using d-scan/probes. Of course, the pilot name, standings, shiptype or even if the pilot was coming or going from the system would not be available, stuff that is revealed by local now. The ambiguous, intermittent nature of the 'flash button' gives the ratter less information to work with and more likely to make errors for the attacker to capitalize on.
3) Make it so external intel tools require the cloak to be turned off. It's always struck me absurd that drones can't be controlled by your ship while cloaked, but probes can. If you want to go for the kill and think the enemy is in an anom or a plex in the system, in order to get the kill you have to make yourself vulnerable in turn to use the probes/on-board/d-scan, and get scanned down in turn if the residents are actively searching for intel and defending their system.
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Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
94
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 10:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aside from a few trolls there are some great ideas for new intel. I fully agree that anything anti-cloak should be done cat and mouse style. I also believe that cloaks should retain there ability to have the player be able to cloak up and go afk, without local in its current version there would be no reason to do this 23.5/7, just long enough to get some food or something.
Hi Lord Zim! I've missed you as my nemisis :) |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
529
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 13:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:CSM December Summit Minutes wrote:...use of chat as an intel tool (like it is used now where the listing of people in local gives you intel about who is in the system). It is CCPGÇÖs desire to fix the chat system but currently there are no specifics available as lots of intel components in local would need to be split into new tools, etc. The CSM warned that there will be a huge opposition regarding any changes to the local chat but both parties agreed that using a chat channel as an intel tool is not ideal. The CSM and CCP agree, local needs to go. This is not a thread to debate whether it should go or not, this is an idea's thread on what tools you would like to see implimented to replace local as an intel tool. If anything, what you'll see it being replaced with is a sov-dependent anchorable module that can be incapped to remove the intel capabilities in a system, with standings-based access to said intel. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
135
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 14:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Local channel
The local chat channel should be tied to an anchored structure. HS and low sec will be unaffected by this, so local in these zones will remain the same.
In Null sec, it will be up to the sov holder to decide if they want the local chat channel or not but the structure will not be tied to a POS, it should be tied to a celestial (e.g. the sun) allowing small gangs to destroy it in reasonable time.
WH space will remain the same and you would not have the option to anchor this structure in WH space at all.
Cloaky hunting
Any pulse, bubble or bombing method to decloaking a ship would be unfair and susceptible to blob warfare IMO so...
The only way this could really work is if a new ship was created that had the ability to probe out the APPROXIMATE location of a cloaked ship.
Once the cloaky hunter has the approximate location he can warp to it. Once on grid this cloaked ship could be anywhere within a 30km radius.
The next stage in cloaky hunting would involve another new ship module - The Special Distortion Field Detector (SDFD). This would be the first ship module in game that can be activated while cloaked. It has a 10 second cycle timer but once the cycle timer ends, it displays a GÇ£ghost imageGÇ¥ of all cloaked ships within a 50km radius. To update the location of the ghost image, the cloaky pilot would need to re-activate the SDFD.
Let the flaming and nay saying commence. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
101
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 15:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
afk cloaking nerf is only viable if local get significantly nerfed, regardless of any sov structures for local, you can expect them as available in any system which is being used, so a sov structure is not a nerf at all. No instant local information is mandatory in any case if you want afk cloakers to get nerfed. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
530
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 15:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Good luck with that. |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
49
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 23:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote: Cloaky hunting
Any pulse, bubble or bombing method to decloaking a ship would be unfair and susceptible to blob warfare IMO so...
The only way this could really work is if a new ship was created that had the ability to probe out the APPROXIMATE location of a cloaked ship.
Once the cloaky hunter has the approximate location he can warp to it. Once on grid this cloaked ship could be anywhere within a 30km radius.
The next stage in cloaky hunting would involve another new ship module - The Special Distortion Field Detector (SDFD). This would be the first ship module in game that can be activated while cloaked. It has a 10 second cycle timer but once the cycle timer ends, it displays a GÇ£ghost imageGÇ¥ of all cloaked ships within a 50km radius. To update the location of the ghost image, the cloaky pilot would need to re-activate the SDFD.
This (assuming the removal of Local Chat Intel) is the most balanced cloak detection system I've read so far.
The new ship should come from a new skill following Recon V, The probe ability from new skills following maxed Astrometrics skills, and the SDFD from a new skill following Cloaking V. Making it very specialized and from the same skill trees of those it hunts. T3s would not get access, they're a flexible ship class not a specialist one, and already hold too many trump cards over other CovOps ships.
While were talking about new skills, an Adavanced Cloaking Skill that reduces Targeting Delay to zero for non Bombers at level V would be a welcome addition, and no doubt needed for these Cloak Hunting ships to work properly.
The ships themselves could be Adv Recons, that sacrifice Cyno bonus for the ability to more easily fit a new type of Expanded probe Launcher, and lose one of their EWAR Bonuses to be able to fit and use the SDFD. No need for brand new ship models just slightly adjust existing Recons.
So skills would be:
Adv Recon: Requires Recon V and Cloaking V, 20% Bonus per level to SDFD Range and Pulse recharge time (max 50km 10sec)
Adv Cloaking: Requires Cloaking V, 10% Bonus per level to Targeting delay with CovOps cloaks. (BlackOps need to be included in this somehow as well)
SDFD Operation: Requires Cloaking V, Bonus, Reduction in Cap use and fitting requirements for the SDFD Mod.
Astrometric Subspace Detection: Requires Astrometrics Pinpointing and Rangefinding V, Bonus in reducing possible range deviation of the scanned cloaked ship from the warp-in point using the new Probe Launcher. Max skills 25-30km, minimum 50km.
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sakurako
The Circle Inver Brass
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 02:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
Xorv wrote:[quote=Rek Seven] Adv Cloaking: Requires Cloaking V, 10% Bonus per level to Targeting delay with CovOps cloaks. (BlackOps need to be included in this somehow as well)
i hope you mean -10%
new skills would be good i also believe it should not be any easy thing to do if anything it should take time to find a ship as i have said to others if your afk in space not at a pos you deserve to to be killed (heck even in a pos if your bumped out)
as to the people saying he can't hurt you thats all well and good but you can't hurt him and lot of us want to hurt you no matter what ship you in titan or rookieship a kills a kills
as for the removal of local and addition of intel tools this need be done with no down Effect on the server i.e, no adding lag to it |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
51
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 02:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
Also, one other change to CovOps cloaks that should occur is that they stay cloaked when you log out.
sakurako wrote:i hope you mean -10%
Thanks, edited it for clarity.
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Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
51
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 08:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:afk cloaking nerf is only viable if local get significantly nerfed, regardless of any sov structures for local, you can expect them as available in any system which is being used, so a sov structure is not a nerf at all. No instant local information is mandatory in any case if you want afk cloakers to get nerfed.
Yeah, if there's a structure that Sovereignty holders can put up to recreate Local Chat intel it has to be done in such a way that it's limited in use to just a couple of their systems. If Sov holders can just put this structure in every system they've claimed it's actually a step back from where we are now, add in cloak detection it's even worse, all their space becomes effectively safer than High Sec for their members.
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Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
533
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 08:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
Xorv wrote:all their space becomes effectively safer than High Sec for their members. There's the "safer than hisec" fallacy again. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
233
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 08:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
It's only safer then hisec once I hit F1 and turn on my cloak. |
Ned Black
Driders
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 09:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Local channel
The local chat channel should be tied to an anchored structure. HS and low sec will be unaffected by this, so local in these zones will remain the same.
In Null sec, it will be up to the sov holder to decide if they want the local chat channel or not but the structure will not be tied to a POS, it should be tied to a celestial (e.g. the sun) allowing small gangs to destroy it in reasonable time.
WH space will remain the same and you would not have the option to anchor this structure in WH space at all.
Cloaky hunting
Any pulse, bubble or bombing method to decloaking a ship would be unfair and susceptible to blob warfare IMO so...
The only way this could really work is if a new ship was created that had the ability to probe out the APPROXIMATE location of a cloaked ship.
Once the cloaky hunter has the approximate location he can warp to it. Once on grid this cloaked ship could be anywhere within a 30km radius.
The next stage in cloaky hunting would involve another new ship module - The Special Distortion Field Detector (SDFD). This would be the first ship module in game that can be activated while cloaked. It has a 10 second cycle timer but once the cycle timer ends, it displays a GÇ£ghost imageGÇ¥ of all cloaked ships within a 50km radius. To update the location of the ghost image, the cloaky pilot would need to re-activate the SDFD.
Let the flaming and nay saying commence.
Not balanced at all if you warp to a random spot withing 30km and then use the other thing that goes out to 50. The cloaker would be screwed royally 100% of the time. And if you also add the fact that you want this module to be used while cloaking then the only reason for it would be to be able to fly to the grid of the cloaker cloaked so that the cloaker is unaware of the hunter. Then the other module goes off while cloaked and you get the location of the cloaker. You approach and decloak...
This would essentially make cloaks useless and the hunter would be so bloody OP its not even funny. |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
48
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 12:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
Any module or system that gives a return when it detects an active cloak in the system would break wormholes.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
137
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 14:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ned Black wrote: Not balanced at all if you warp to a random spot withing 30km and then use the other thing that goes out to 50. The cloaker would be screwed royally 100% of the time. And if you also add the fact that you want this module to be used while cloaking then the only reason for it would be to be able to fly to the grid of the cloaker cloaked so that the cloaker is unaware of the hunter. Then the other module goes off while cloaked and you get the location of the cloaker. You approach and decloak...
This would essentially make cloaks useless and the hunter would be so bloody OP its not even funny.
All things can be balanced with a little though my friend. For example, there could be some kind of warning for the cloaked pilot when this SDFD is activated within 10 km.
A stationary cloaked ship would be easily caught using the device but if the ship was moving, the cloaky hunter would have to do some work.
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
137
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Posted - 2012.01.20 14:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote:Any module or system that gives a return when it detects an active cloak in the system would break wormholes.
No - it would change wormhole tactics.
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Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
11
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Posted - 2012.01.20 14:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
If you are going to make life harder for cloak types, you need to give something back as well.
Local was not the balance for cloaking, it overcompensated for it if anything. I don't believe it was an intentional effect on CCP's part, but it was easier to just leave it alone.
Cloaking is balanced by the nerfed combat capacity of every ship able to warp cloaked. They may get the element of surprise, but are not fighting in a ship that is as dangerous as others of it's type. Their base T1 equivalent, with both ships properly prepared, will beat the cloaking vessel every time in a straightforward engagement.
Even Black Ops, (arguably not a true cloaking vessel, since it cannot warp cloaked), is no match for a T1 BS equivalent. These ships are one trick ponies, able to make covert jump bridges only. At over 600 million isk each, noone chooses to fight in these either.
If you want to make cloaked ships huntable, then you must make them able to hunt back.
Put in a cloaked attack vessel to balance the hunting one. I made a thread on this too: Seawolf in space |
Mary Annabelle
State War Academy Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2012.01.20 15:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:If you are going to make life harder for cloak types, you need to give something back as well.
Local was not the balance for cloaking, it overcompensated for it if anything. I don't believe it was an intentional effect on CCP's part, but it was easier to just leave it alone.
Cloaking is balanced by the nerfed combat capacity of every ship able to warp cloaked. They may get the element of surprise, but are not fighting in a ship that is as dangerous as others of it's type. Their base T1 equivalent, with both ships properly prepared, will beat the cloaking vessel every time in a straightforward engagement.
Even Black Ops, (arguably not a true cloaking vessel, since it cannot warp cloaked), is no match for a T1 BS equivalent. These ships are one trick ponies, able to make covert jump bridges only. At over 600 million isk each, noone chooses to fight in these either.
If you want to make cloaked ships huntable, then you must make them able to hunt back.
Put in a cloaked attack vessel to balance the hunting one. I made a thread on this too: Seawolf in space
Nikk's destroyer idea in that thread sounds more fun to me than his 'sub'.
Just me, maybe, but it felt fun. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
13
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Posted - 2012.01.20 20:39:00 -
[29] - Quote
Changes to local require delicate balancing. I am curious how your idea compares with my own. This might help both ideas.
What are the base principles you want local to be based on?
For comparison, these are what I would like to see:
You must not make cloaking a trivial ship function. These ships already paid for this offensively. The current local can be viewed as already highlighting cloaking types, since it clearly lists those who cannot be probed down.
You must not make gankers able to have an 'at a glance' source for all they need to know about prospective targets in a system not their own. Skilled pilots right now in frigates can use local as a tool to gank ratters and miners a lot easier than many realize.
Miners and ratters, in their own space, deserve a level of security on par with the efforts of their corp and alliance. They should know immediately if any hostile is present that may want to hunt them. The hostile, not being in friendly space, should need to work for the intel by scanning or probing.
System defenders deserve to know what is in their space, and whether they constitute a threat. They should know if something hostile comes into system immediately, regardless if any other information about the threat is available. |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
52
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 20:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote: If you want to make cloaked ships huntable, then you must make them able to hunt back.
Put in a cloaked attack vessel to balance the hunting one. I made a thread on this too: Seawolf in space
Yes, I think the goal should be that cloak hunting ought to be a game of cat and mouse, where who's the cat and who's the mouse isn't always clear. The cloak hunting ship shouldn't be a better combat ship than a Force Recon, and it's tools to hunt down cloaked ships should be designed as much as possible to discourage use in combination with blobbing. The later being the hardest part..
Not being able to light a Cyno would be another good restriction for the Cloak Hunting Ship.
All the non T3 CovOps ships plus the BlackOps Ships could use a boost. Removing Local Chat is a boost to being sneaky, not a particular boost to just CovOps, as fast mobile visible ships and hard to scan ships would also benefit from lack of Local Intel.
I've already recommended in this thread a skill to bring Targeting Delay to 0 for non Bombers, but I also think CovOps Frig, Bombers, Recons, and BlackOps Battleships could use a bit of an upgrade as AFs have recently received. It would be a 'nice to have' atm, but with other ships types getting boosts and the possibility of a ship that can detect cloaks, such an upgrade will become a 'must have'.
Will have to look at your Seawolf in Space thread, don't think I've read that one yet.
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