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Solinuas
Beyond Evil and Good
53
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Posted - 2012.01.22 10:58:00 -
[31] - Quote
Selinate wrote: They'll just go somewhere else to do it... megaupload is not the problem...
Thats the thing, no matter what, they will go somewhere else, there is literally no way to stop that
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Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
326
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Posted - 2012.01.22 17:02:00 -
[32] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Xenuria wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:You saw it here folks, Xenuria admits to searching for kiddie pron Spin it how you will. I work closely with the previously mentioned organizations. I help make the net a cleaner place. Ok, nothing personal but you're doing a horrible job
Dont throw coal into the oven ... Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco |
Jewel DeNyle
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.01.22 17:37:00 -
[33] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:getting a free copy of the latest film is the same as a work of art by one of the old masters...
Um did you just compare a hollywood movie to a painting by anyone of the old masters?
That in itself should be a criminal offence!
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baltec1
471
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Posted - 2012.01.22 18:46:00 -
[34] - Quote
Jewel DeNyle wrote:baltec1 wrote:getting a free copy of the latest film is the same as a work of art by one of the old masters... Um did you just compare a hollywood movie to a painting by anyone of the old masters? That in itself should be a criminal offence!
I see I need to beat you with the sarcasm stick. |
Spineker
109
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Posted - 2012.01.22 20:05:00 -
[35] - Quote
It is places like Megaupload that gave people the idea of creating SOPA, they are thieves. Period there is no excuse for it or defense.
As for the Mona Lisa comment. It wouldn't be a problem but what if I snatched your copy from your home and sold it and profit off your copy.. yeah that might **** you off. |
Baneken
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
74
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Posted - 2012.01.22 20:47:00 -
[36] - Quote
ROOVALK wrote:...the dawning of the undernet.
There is already a one called TOR-network. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
521
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Posted - 2012.01.23 11:09:00 -
[37] - Quote
USA becoming a tyrany |
VKhaun Vex
Viziam Amarr Empire
279
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Posted - 2012.01.23 11:12:00 -
[38] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:USA becoming a tyrany
Lets wait and see what they're under arrest for, and what the evidence is |
Azelor Delaria
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
136
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Posted - 2012.01.23 13:28:00 -
[39] - Quote
VKhaun Vex wrote:Akrasjel Lanate wrote:USA becoming a tyrany Lets wait and see what they're under arrest for, and what the evidence is
According to the indictment that's been unsealed, MegaUpload purposely exploited pirating of files, going so far as to offer incentives to people to upload such files for downloading. A lot of the money gained was from said pirated material, so the enterprise in and of itself becomes criminal at that point.
And apparently the feds have e-mails between various high-ranking MegaUpload employees admitting to the pirating and patting themselves on the back. |
Skex Relbore
The Dominion of Light BLACK-MARK
65
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Posted - 2012.01.23 22:50:00 -
[40] - Quote
Kattshiro wrote:Physically painting a copy isnt the same thing as making a digital copy. Now if your forged it and attempted to sell it as an original. Or sold copies... However the work is mostly likely in public domain now so that's also an entirely different animal.
Please research DMCA. intellectual property, copyright, patent, and trade mark law. I still not sure where this sense of entitlement is coming from.... Why do people think they deserve free ****?
Granted this was a tad overboard...and so are other actions, but just because you can't afford something doesn't mean you shouldnt have to pay for it.
Oh look a misuse of the term entitlement.
An entitlement is a privilege granted to an elite nobility not something received by the peons.
No the proper use of entitled in this case is that the media companies think they are entitled to perpetual protection of their business model regardless of the state of technology and their refusal to adapt said business model to new technology.
They seem to have forgotten that prior to the invention of the phonograph that the only way people profited from musical and theatrical property was to perform. The idea of residuals and royalties are a direct result of the existence of recording technology.
These businesses could easily adapt to the new technology by changing their distribution and revenue models to embrace new technology by offering their content at a more reasonable price through various online distribution companies or even "gasp" using advertisement to pay for said distribution.
Most people would be more than happy to pay modest fee to access this content but will often resort to more nefarious methods because paying $20s to watch a movie one time is simply unreasonable the IP owner can't be arsed to provide said content through any of the numerous legitimate content providers. Or worse said content is older and out of print and isn't even available save through piracy.
What we see here with SOPA PIPA as well as the older DCMA is the content industry asking for special protection from changes in the marketplace. (IOW and protection of their ENTITLEMENT)
I say they should receive the same response that the poor sap who lost his manufacturing job got when his job was moved to China ... that they need to adapt to the new reality.
Because in the end what the technology gods giveth, the technology gods can taketh away. |
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VKhaun Vex
Viziam Amarr Empire
279
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Posted - 2012.01.23 23:16:00 -
[41] - Quote
Skex Relbore wrote:These businesses could easily adapt to the new technology by changing their distribution and revenue models to embrace new technology by offering their content at a more reasonable price through various online distribution companies or even "gasp" using advertisement to pay for said distribution.
Most people would be more than happy to pay modest fee to access this content but will often resort to more nefarious methods because paying $20s to watch a movie one time is simply unreasonable the IP owner can't be arsed to provide said content through any of the numerous legitimate content providers. Or worse said content is older and out of print and isn't even available save through piracy. You just proved their point of entitlement.
They made something. You want it. You disagree with their offer to let you view it under their terms.
In the real world of right and wrong, that means you DONT TAKE THEIR OFFER and that's the end of it. You walk away and leave them holding their product and no profit, and you don't get what you want. They are forced to become more flexible or less expensive based on what people are willing to pay for it.
NO DEAL - is this concept lost on you?
But you, and many others, seem to feel entitled to what they have made so you take it without accepting their deal and try to blame everything and everyone else.
Downloading it from someone you've never met and you know screen capped it, ripped a screener DvD, etc is 'sharing'. It's your right. It's their fault. The government is censoring you. The internet is free. Anything you can possibly say so you can take what you want without dealing with the other person. Sure, there's a line where people can share and people can get together to watch what one of them has, but that's the beginning of a discussion about how to shape the deals the owners make with the buyers, not a discussion about how to not pay for anything.
We just had a similar example with movie theaters in a recent thread. People sneaking food in. The theater says you pay to get a ticket to get inside, and you don't bring food with you. Then they make money by selling high priced snacks and drinks for the movie. People feel ENTITLED to cheap food while they watch a movie, so they sneak food in and act like it's harmless. DERP becuz the movies er bad. DERP becuz the prices are high. Hurr durr it's mah rightz. **** the business owner, I'll buy the ticket but I won't go along with the deal and then I'll tell everyone I'm an honest good person.
Skex Relbore wrote:What we see here with SOPA PIPA as well as the older DCMA is the content industry asking for special protection from changes in the marketplace. (IOW and protection of their ENTITLEMENT) A copyright is meaningless if no one respects it and the government won't enforce it. You and many others blatantly state that you have no respect for a copyright and constantly reference actions of indifference to anyone trying to run a business.
So where does that leave the government? Tell every business owner with an intangible product or service to go to another country, or try to help them surreptitiously so as not to commit political suicide for doing the right thing? |
Selinate
603
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Posted - 2012.01.24 00:45:00 -
[42] - Quote
I don't care much if pirating is gotten rid of or not. The push for SOPA came mostly from hollywood and musical artists, right?
Hollywood still makes a buttfucking massive profit on a lot of movies, and TBH I personally don't know any Americans that frequently rips off movies.
Chinese? Yes. Korean? Yes. However, both countries are a bit out of U.S. jurisdiction. As for musical artists, they've been ripping everyone else off for YEARS as far as CD's go, and now they're mad because people rip off their music still? Even after they attacked kids in lawsuits, suing them for egregious amounts of money? For christ's sake, the music industry deserves it....
As far as software goes, I think pirating of this does go a bit overboard. However, **** me if I buy a new version of some FORTRAN compiler for 800$ for a windows machine, or a new version of Maple for an amount that's way too high.
My 2 cents. |
Azelor Delaria
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
136
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 03:27:00 -
[43] - Quote
Selinate wrote:I don't care much if pirating is gotten rid of or not. The push for SOPA came mostly from hollywood and musical artists, right?
Hollywood still makes a buttfucking massive profit on a lot of movies, and TBH I personally don't know any Americans that frequently rips off movies.
Chinese? Yes. Korean? Yes. However, both countries are a bit out of U.S. jurisdiction. As for musical artists, they've been ripping everyone else off for YEARS as far as CD's go, and now they're mad because people rip off their music still? Even after they attacked kids in lawsuits, suing them for egregious amounts of money? For christ's sake, the music industry deserves it....
As far as software goes, I think pirating of this does go a bit overboard. However, **** me if I buy a new version of some FORTRAN compiler for 800$ for a windows machine, or a new version of Maple for an amount that's way too high.
My 2 cents.
Oh, I know of quite a few people who used Megaupload for illegal purposes. In fact, my best friend jus tsent me the following:
Quote:Megaupload was my main source of watching things illegally. That site was 200 pirates on a ship with a 100 pirate capacity.
Look, the concept of free-market is that nothing is free. You pay in one way or another. When you decide that you are entitled to something, then you start to hurt yourself. That is the problem with much of this generation.
For example, the Occupy Wall Street crowd chanted that they should be given all this stuff for free (free health care, free education, etc.). However, nowhere in their manifesto was there an offer to give something back to the community. There was no quid pro quo and that has been the main source of contention between OWS and many other individuals who don't agree with them. They do not represent the "99%". Many of us come up with solutions and ways to better society, all the while offering what we will do in exchange.
Megaupload was a massively illegal enterprise. While you're pissed that it was shut down, I'm surprised that it stayed up for as long as it did.
You are not entitled to anything. There is give and take in everything, and this is no different. |
So Sensational
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.01.24 03:45:00 -
[44] - Quote
VKhaun Vex wrote: So where does that leave the government? Tell every business owner with an intangible product or service to go to another country
That won't really help, because the people of every other country are also pro-Piracy. The government's job is to represent the people, to create laws that the people wants and enforce them when needed.
Whatever you think is right and wrong has no relevance, unless there's enough of you and people like you to outnumber everyone else. Which at this point and time I'm pretty sure there isn't, practically every person out there with the know-how and the access to it pirates, and the percentage will grow with future generations.
It's not the government's job to police imaginary rights, unless the people believes in those rights.
Oh and as for the thread itself, I'm all for shutting down Megaupload if they can prove the indictments. |
VKhaun Vex
Viziam Amarr Empire
279
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Posted - 2012.01.24 03:55:00 -
[45] - Quote
So Sensational wrote:VKhaun Vex wrote: So where does that leave the government? Tell every business owner with an intangible product or service to go to another country
That won't really help, because the people of every other country are also pro-Piracy. The government's job is to represent the people, to create laws that the people wants and enforce them when needed. Whatever you think is right and wrong has no relevance, unless there's enough of you and people like you to outnumber everyone else. Which at this point and time I'm pretty sure there isn't, practically every person out there with the know-how and the access to it pirates, and the percentage will grow with future generations. It's not the government's job to police imaginary rights, unless the people believes in those rights. Oh and as for the thread itself, I'm all for shutting down Megaupload if they can prove the indictments.
They form a company, have a manager, or run a business so now their rights are imaginary and they are no longer part of 'the people'?
That's disgusting.
Get out. |
So Sensational
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.01.24 03:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
VKhaun Vex wrote:So Sensational wrote:VKhaun Vex wrote: So where does that leave the government? Tell every business owner with an intangible product or service to go to another country
That won't really help, because the people of every other country are also pro-Piracy. The government's job is to represent the people, to create laws that the people wants and enforce them when needed. Whatever you think is right and wrong has no relevance, unless there's enough of you and people like you to outnumber everyone else. Which at this point and time I'm pretty sure there isn't, practically every person out there with the know-how and the access to it pirates, and the percentage will grow with future generations. It's not the government's job to police imaginary rights, unless the people believes in those rights. Oh and as for the thread itself, I'm all for shutting down Megaupload if they can prove the indictments. They form a company, have a manager, or run a business so now their rights are imaginary and they are no longer part of 'the people'? That's disgusting. Get out. All rights are imaginary. But that's a debate for another day.
Way to focus in one one word rather than the point itself, whatever the Government enforces it should never be something the people does not want. In the case of a democracy, the majority of people. |
VKhaun Vex
Viziam Amarr Empire
279
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 03:59:00 -
[47] - Quote
Once again 'the people' only makes sense to you because only those who agree with you count as people in your statements. You think the RIAA is one person? You think a company is only their rich greedy CEO stereotype? You think the movie business is only directors and A list actors? The music business is only the lead singers of the top 100 singles this year?
You're in a fantasy world where everyone else is trivial and you're on a pedestal. |
So Sensational
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.01.24 04:12:00 -
[48] - Quote
VKhaun Vex wrote:Once again 'the people' only makes sense to you because only those who agree with you count as people in your statements. You think the RIAA is one person? You think a company is only their rich greedy CEO stereotype? You think the movie business is only directors and A list actors? The music business is only the lead singers of the top 100 singles this year?
You're in a fantasy world where everyone else is trivial and you're on a pedestal. No, I'm in a world where average Joe, through activism , forces a withdrawal of a bill in the US Senate and House.
I have no idea where you get that part from, I never even made it clear until this point which side of the debate I am on. My statement is merely that the government serves the people, and that the people in general (The ones who take a stance at least) are pro-Piracy. Thus the government must be as well. And so I'll go back and address your edit:
VKhaun Vex wrote: The issue is how to properly enforce a copyright work online, not IF they should be enforced on line. Granted the bigger names in the business aren't being fair about it, but neither are the people who pirate and steal. At the end of the day, why would any law maker side with a self proclaimed pirate and theif over law abiding business owners? You think because there are a lot of thieves it should be legal to steal?
The IF part is most certainly an issue, online or offline. Naturally all laws should be enforced but the question is if Copyright in it's current form should even be a law, it's archaic at best.
For the rest of your post, I'll first mention that piracy is not theft in any form or way. And then I'll once again make this statement, if the people believe it should be legal, it should be legal.
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VKhaun Vex
Viziam Amarr Empire
279
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Posted - 2012.01.24 04:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
I'll stop at pointing this out three times in a row and let you make the same mistake again as the last word, but yet again you use words to refer to 'people' that conveniently cut out everyone who disagrees with you.
Copyrights being 'archaic' is only true because you've chosen a moment in time where we have not yet established how to properly enforce them (SOPA definitely is a bad idea) under these new circumstances, and simultaneously insist they never be adapted. It's pure circular logic.
Your thoughts are shallow, self serving, assuming, and exaggerated. Lots of people like to kill their lovers when they cheat on them. Lots of people wanted to nuke the entire middle east. Lots of people want to give all their friends and families in Mexico a U.S. citizenship. Lots of people want lots of stupid things. Lots of people want things they think are good, while they remain willfully ignorant of the consequences to others. |
So Sensational
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.01.24 04:48:00 -
[50] - Quote
VKhaun Vex wrote:I'll stop at pointing this out three times in a row and let you make the same mistake again as the last word, but yet again you use words to refer to 'people' that conveniently cut out everyone who disagrees with you. No sir, you simply fail to misunderstand what I mean with it. A democracy is ruled by the majority, simple as that. Those are the people I refer to, any right is dictated by those people. Assuming you live in the western world they're also dictated by people who died a long time ago through archaic laws and bill of rights and what not, but those mean very little if the people who live today don't believe in them and are organized and driven enough to change them.
The majority of today does not side with the MAFIAA. Thus, "the people" does not side with the MAFIAA, and thus the government shouldn't either.
VKhaun Vex wrote:Copyrights being 'archaic' is only true because you've chosen a moment in time where we have not yet established how to properly enforce them (SOPA definitely is a bad idea) under these new circumstances, and simultaneously insist they never be adapted. It's pure circular logic. It can be circular logic, if you believe that copyright is archaic because it doesn't work (I never claimed this, so I don't understand why you would assume so). I well and truly believe that Copyright laws are archaic and extend much further than they should. Basically, even if they did work they'd be "wrong". Hence, no circular logic.
VKhaun Vex wrote:Your thoughts are shallow, self serving, assuming, and exaggerated. I doubt it, most definitely, how could they not be when what we're discussing isn't empirical and not really.
VKhaun Vex wrote:Lots of people like to kill their lovers when they cheat on them. Lots of people wanted to nuke the entire middle east. Lots of people want to give all their friends and families in Mexico a U.S. citizenship. Yet not enough people believe in it enough, and represent it enough, for it to become legislation.
VKhaun Vex wrote:Lots of people want lots of stupid things. Lots of people want things they think are good, while they remain willfully ignorant of the consequences to others. Lots of people want to impose their view of the world on other people. Like you. I could go into what I truly believe in but that'd be a whole other thread, so I'll just stick to the piracy issue. |
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Spineker
121
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Posted - 2012.01.24 05:04:00 -
[51] - Quote
Great post VKhaun Vex. |
VKhaun Vex
Viziam Amarr Empire
283
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Posted - 2012.01.24 05:10:00 -
[52] - Quote
So Sensational wrote:Lots of people want to impose their view of the world on other people. Like you. I could go into what I truly believe in but that'd be a whole other thread, so I'll just stick to the piracy issue.
First you call their rights imaginary, then turn around on me when I use your wording and say all rights are 'imaginary' but you don't want to have the conversation. You call it archaic then when I reply, again you put archaic in quotes like I called it that and use it against me and again you don't want to have the conversation? You still say the government should automatically side with the majority despite a list of examples where the majority would be wrong and indeed self destruct? Lets just stick to the piracy issue?
You keep bringing up side ideas, assuming that turn out in your favor when they don't, and then trying to rule them out of the conversation.
And I'm imposing something on someone?
lol... wat?
Spineker wrote:Great post VKhaun Vex. It seems I have a fan. Thank you for liking... every post I've made in the thread... |
So Sensational
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.01.24 05:28:00 -
[53] - Quote
VKhaun Vex wrote: First you call their rights imaginary, then turn around on me when I use your wording and say all rights are 'imaginary' but you don't want to have the conversation.
You call my thoughts assumptions and imply that's a bad thing yet everything you do is assume. Here you go: "Signaling unusual usage Quotation marks are also used to indicate that the writer realizes that a word is not being used in its current commonly accepted sense"
Discussing the concept of rights would require going very far off-topic.
VKhaun Vex wrote:You call it archaic then when I reply, again you put archaic in quotes like I called it that and use it against me and again you don't want to have the conversation? Once again using the quotation marks in the previously mentioned form. Where in my reply did I not "have the conversation", i.e. describe what I meant? I pretty clearly and consicely described what I meant.
VKhaun Vex wrote:You still say the government should automatically side with the majority despite a list of examples where the majority would be wrong and indeed self destruct? I say that this is how it works in a Democracy, simple as that. If the majority can be convinced to vote against themselves on behalf of a minority they will, if not, they won't. From the very beginning this is what I was saying, I did not even take a stance on the issue before you went all hostile on me.
I either suck at writing English or your reading comprehension is really poor. You seem to have misunderstood me from the very beginning.
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Azelor Delaria
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
136
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 05:45:00 -
[54] - Quote
So Sensational wrote:VKhaun Vex wrote: First you call their rights imaginary, then turn around on me when I use your wording and say all rights are 'imaginary' but you don't want to have the conversation.
You call my thoughts assumptions and imply that's a bad thing yet everything you do is assume. Here you go: "Signaling unusual usage Quotation marks are also used to indicate that the writer realizes that a word is not being used in its current commonly accepted sense" Discussing the concept of rights would require going very far off-topic. VKhaun Vex wrote:You call it archaic then when I reply, again you put archaic in quotes like I called it that and use it against me and again you don't want to have the conversation? Once again using the quotation marks in the previously mentioned form. Where in my reply did I not "have the conversation", i.e. describe what I meant? I pretty clearly and consicely described what I meant. VKhaun Vex wrote:You still say the government should automatically side with the majority despite a list of examples where the majority would be wrong and indeed self destruct? I say that this is how it works in a Democracy, simple as that. If the majority can be convinced to vote against themselves on behalf of a minority they will, if not, they won't. From the very beginning this is what I was saying, I did not even take a stance on the issue before you went all hostile on me. I either suck at writing English or your reading comprehension is really poor. You seem to have misunderstood me from the very beginning.
You're dumb and should feel dumb. |
So Sensational
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.01.24 05:51:00 -
[55] - Quote
Azelor Delaria wrote: You're dumb and should feel dumb.
No u. |
baltec1
476
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 09:57:00 -
[56] - Quote
If the majority dont pay for stuff then said stuff will not get made. Piracy is stealing, hence why it is called piracy. |
Landrae
Blood Angel Asylum
293
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 11:35:00 -
[57] - Quote
Mega upload is back up in case you guise were wondering new URL YOU CAN'T KILL MEGA UPLOAD!
My cow collapsed, and now there's a human to animal infection outbreak among illegal immigrants. |
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
184
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Posted - 2012.01.24 19:23:00 -
[58] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:If the majority don't pay for stuff then said stuff will not get made. Piracy is stealing, hence why it is called piracy.
No.
It does not mean that at all, it just means they will not make as much profit.
You gotta remember the ancillary profits too, like merchandising, fast-food deals, theme park rides, and then you have got home cinema and of course (finally) PPV/cable/sat/itunes and (finally-finally) free-to-watch television syndication across the planet.
Citizen Kane is still making money ffs.
The amount they invest up-front (pre-production/production/post-production/marketing) is very large, yes, but they hedge their bets and go for as much money as they can from as many sources as humanly possible, and market the **** out of it.
It's also highly cyclical, like a factory production line, with as many as 12 films being made at one moment in time per studio, in various stages of production (including marketing) and out the end you get the final product.
So, the money coming in everyday; can be from films as long as 50 years ago right up until yesterday.
They want more profit. They are a company. I understand and respect that.
What I don't respect is someone lying to me, and catastrophising to me that the entire movie industry will collapse is epic myopia, conceived purely to tug on heart strings - which ironically is what the movie industry has been doing since its conception.
Bal, don't believe the mother fuckin' hype; it's all about the profit margins - and if they could transmit movie merchandising information into our brains whilst asleep, they'd fuckin' do it and probably use freedom of speech and expression as a lynchpin to argue it.
AK GÇ£You go into combat, and itGÇÖs NOT going to be WagnerGǪindustrial techno or really hard drum and bassGÇ¥
Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002. |
baltec1
478
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Posted - 2012.01.24 21:16:00 -
[59] - Quote
AlleyKat wrote:baltec1 wrote:If the majority don't pay for stuff then said stuff will not get made. Piracy is stealing, hence why it is called piracy. No. It does not mean that at all, it just means they will not make as much profit. You gotta remember the ancillary profits too, like merchandising, fast-food deals, theme park rides, and then you have got home cinema and of course (finally) PPV/cable/sat/itunes and (finally-finally) free-to-watch television syndication across the planet. Citizen Kane is still making money ffs. The amount they invest up-front (pre-production/production/post-production/marketing) is very large, yes, but they hedge their bets and go for as much money as they can from as many sources as humanly possible, and market the **** out of it. It's also highly cyclical, like a factory production line, with as many as 12 films being made at one moment in time per studio, in various stages of production (including marketing) and out the end you get the final product. So, the money coming in everyday; can be from films as long as 50 years ago right up until yesterday. They want more profit. They are a company. I understand and respect that. What I don't respect is someone lying to me, and catastrophising to me that the entire movie industry will collapse is epic myopia, conceived purely to tug on heart strings - which ironically is what the movie industry has been doing since its conception. Bal, don't believe the mother fuckin' hype; it's all about the profit margins - and if they could transmit movie merchandising information into our brains whilst asleep, they'd fuckin' do it and probably use freedom of speech and expression as a lynchpin to argue it. AK
Tell that to HMV. |
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
184
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Posted - 2012.01.24 22:11:00 -
[60] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Tell that to HMV.
They are not in the movie business.
GÇ£You go into combat, and itGÇÖs NOT going to be WagnerGǪindustrial techno or really hard drum and bassGÇ¥
Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002. |
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