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Feng Schui
Minmatar The Ninja Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.19 15:48:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Feng Schui on 19/09/2007 15:49:48
12 ship invention jobs, all 12 using the ships as the base item, 11 of them using the 9 run decryptors, 1 with no decryptor...
And the only one to make it was the ship that I didn't use the decryptor on.
So, does anyone want to buy a Sacrilige for 650M isk so I can break even?
edit: I've also have all 3 of the skills to level 4
The Beginning <-- crap quality, need to redo, sorry :( |
Laboratus
Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.09.19 15:54:00 -
[2]
___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp New Eden Research
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Posted - 2007.09.19 15:55:00 -
[3]
You mean to say you used the 9-run decryptor, so that's the Circular Logic decryptor, i assume? It reduces your chances of success to 40% of the final value, so that explains why they all failed. The success rate for ships using good invention skills is about 25%, with that decryptor you nerfed it to 10%. If you tried a few more times you'd eventually get a successful job, but it probably doesn't pay off for the failures.
Best to stick to chance-increasing decryptors or not using decryptors at all, there's a reason why some of them are so cheap.
Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
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Feng Schui
Minmatar The Ninja Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.19 15:58:00 -
[4]
the 9 runs where the most expensive actually (20M) :\
had I known that the decryptor chance wasn't (base chance X decryptor chance), I would have used the 4-run one instead.
never the less, I'm still wanting to sell the Sacri for 650M isk, I'm going to stick with modules i think (or at least, try them).
The Beginning <-- crap quality, need to redo, sorry :( |
Fenren
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Posted - 2007.09.19 16:02:00 -
[5]
you cant count on a profit or even to break even with only one successfull job.
invention is chanse based and as such you can be unlucky the 200 first tryes and successfull the 500 following
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Illyria Ambri
RennTech
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Posted - 2007.09.19 16:15:00 -
[6]
You also posted this in the wrong section.
Double failure ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek
Here come the Drums!! - The Master |
Feng Schui
Minmatar The Ninja Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.19 16:19:00 -
[7]
there is a hidden "whine" post in this, if you failed to realize it.
The Beginning <-- crap quality, need to redo, sorry :( |
Illyria Ambri
RennTech
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Posted - 2007.09.19 16:19:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Feng Schui there is a hidden "whine" post in this, if you failed to realize it.
Believe me.. its not hidden.. we can see you crying quite clearly ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek
Here come the Drums!! - The Master |
Feng Schui
Minmatar The Ninja Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.19 16:21:00 -
[9]
then surely, this doesn't belong in the sell forums, since a) i'm not really selling this for 650M, and b) no one would ever buy it
The Beginning <-- crap quality, need to redo, sorry :( |
Irob Urore
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2007.09.19 16:21:00 -
[10]
welcome to invention. one bad week and your bankrupt.
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Illyria Ambri
RennTech
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Posted - 2007.09.19 16:28:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Feng Schui then surely, this doesn't belong in the sell forums, since a) i'm not really selling this for 650M, and b) no one would ever buy it
you forget C: because I edited it so its less of a WTS and more whine. ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek
Here come the Drums!! - The Master |
Feng Schui
Minmatar The Ninja Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.19 16:55:00 -
[12]
the edit was for the skills.
Originally by: OP
edit: I've also have all 3 of the skills to level 4
The Beginning <-- crap quality, need to redo, sorry :( |
Firkragg
Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.09.19 17:22:00 -
[13]
Also everyone knows ship invention is rubbish in terms of profits. stick to module invention. (or am i completely wrong here and there are people growing rich on pumping out t2 ships.)
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Nicho Void
Gallente Hyper-Nova
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Posted - 2007.09.19 17:28:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Firkragg Also everyone knows ship invention is rubbish in terms of profits. stick to module invention. (or am i completely wrong here and there are people growing rich on pumping out t2 ships.)
That may be true, but someone has to do it. With the demise of the lotto, ship invention will be the only way to feed the upcoming T2 BS's into the market. I think the point of this whine is that unless CCP tweaks invention in some manor, ship invention (and thus T2 BS supply) simply isn't a viable career.
But who knows? Perhaps CCP wants the ships to be incredibly expensive. ---------------
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Ira Theos
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Posted - 2007.09.19 18:39:00 -
[15]
This is just another glaring case of CCP demonstrating their great skill at putting their head up their arse when it comes to Eve's economic model. Why don't they sit down with their economics guru professor and let him explain to them in simple terms why the still existing T2 Cartel combined with stupid cost ratios in invention will not support a "player driven" economy. CCP's ignorant concern about not offending the handful of "beta" players who own all the T2 BPOs is spoiling the game for 98 percent or more of it's paying customers. What is the point of worrying about isk sellers when the basic economic model of the game is so fatally flawed by design?
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Thanos Draicon
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Posted - 2007.09.19 18:43:00 -
[16]
So given that profits from invention can fluctuate so highly, why didn't you have enough reserve capital to ensure that those fluctuations didn't pose a serious threat to your business?
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Gort
Storm Guard Elite
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Posted - 2007.09.19 18:52:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ira Theos This is just another glaring case of CCP demonstrating their great skill at putting their head up their arse when it comes to Eve's economic model. Why don't they sit down with their economics guru professor and let him explain to them in simple terms why the still existing T2 Cartel combined with stupid cost ratios in invention will not support a "player driven" economy. CCP's ignorant concern about not offending the handful of "beta" players who own all the T2 BPOs is spoiling the game for 98 percent or more of it's paying customers. What is the point of worrying about isk sellers when the basic economic model of the game is so fatally flawed by design?
Now, THAT's a whine....
-- When in doubt, empty the magazine. |
Drizit
Amarr Lonely out here Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.19 18:56:00 -
[18]
GL with modules. I took a look and decided that after all the costs if invention and manufacture, I would have to get a 5 run BP just to break even. That's presuming it didn't fail on the first try.
Yup, invention is borked all right. It really needs some serious looking into before it can ever be considered by anyone other than a rich eccentric.
It also needs some instructions since the OP and even myself thought that a higher run decryptor would yield better results. It appears that what players are led to believe is incorrect information.
--
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Thanos Draicon
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Posted - 2007.09.19 18:57:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ira Theos Why don't they sit down with their economics guru professor and let him explain to them in simple terms why the still existing T2 Cartel combined with stupid cost ratios in invention will not support a "player driven" economy.
Er...it's all still player driven, dude. Just because it's not driven the way you like it doesn't make it any different.
With a little thought, you'll realize that T2 BPO holders don't have it quite as good as you suspect. Also, there is no longer any cartels as the price of T2 goods cannot rise any higher than invention costs, and therefore prices cannot become artificially inflated beyond that.
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Nicho Void
Gallente Hyper-Nova
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Posted - 2007.09.19 19:01:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Thanos Draicon So given that profits from invention can fluctuate so highly, why didn't you have enough reserve capital to ensure that those fluctuations didn't pose a serious threat to your business?
I asked the same question. You can see the details here.
Short version: 1bill+ to get to a point where averages start to meet probability and you can expect a consistent return. These are pre-RevIII numbers though.
I realize 1 billion is chump change for a number of eve players, but it's a lot of isk for most of us. ---------------
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Thanos Draicon
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Posted - 2007.09.19 19:06:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Nicho Void
Originally by: Thanos Draicon So given that profits from invention can fluctuate so highly, why didn't you have enough reserve capital to ensure that those fluctuations didn't pose a serious threat to your business?
I asked the same question. You can see the details here.
Short version: 1bill+ to get to a point where averages start to meet probability and you can expect a consistent return. These are pre-RevIII numbers though.
Hrm, fair enough. Perhaps CCP should consider increasing the availability of decryptors, or perhaps slightly increasing invention success levels across the board. Then again, just because it requires a significant amount of starting capital, doesn't make it broken, though I could stand to see the price of HACs and Command Ships come down a little.
If this really is a problem, it will probably become much more apparent with the advent of T2 battleships.
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Steve Hawkings
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Posted - 2007.09.19 19:49:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ira Theos This is just another glaring case of CCP demonstrating their great skill at putting their head up their arse when it comes to Eve's economic model. Why don't they sit down with their economics guru professor and let him explain to them in simple terms why the still existing T2 Cartel combined with stupid cost ratios in invention will not support a "player driven" economy. CCP's ignorant concern about not offending the handful of "beta" players who own all the T2 BPOs is spoiling the game for 98 percent or more of it's paying customers. What is the point of worrying about isk sellers when the basic economic model of the game is so fatally flawed by design?
OP's Alt ?
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Feng Schui
Minmatar The Ninja Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.19 20:01:00 -
[23]
Yes, my one account has 20 slots for different alts, while everyone else only gets 3.
The Beginning <-- crap quality, need to redo, sorry :( |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.09.19 20:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Feng Schui 11 of them using the 9 run decryptors, 1 with no decryptor[...] edit: I've also have all 3 of the skills to level 4
Well, take a look in the invention average profits XLS, change input fields to your situation, consider the fact that even a "double length bad streak" is not that uncommon, you'll see what I mean. So, for instance, at 20% base chance to invent (more or less your case), using the +9 runs decryptors (so, at an effective chance to invent of around 8%), you should barely expect one out of 12-13 successes or so. Also, you can see using a ship as meta-item is not that hot as you might think it is (especially as you get into larger ships), and that using 1-run copies instead of full-run BPCs is not such a bad idea (again, the larger the ship).
Originally by: Thanos Draicon Perhaps CCP should consider increasing the availability of decryptors, or perhaps slightly increasing invention success levels across the board.
Decryptors abound compared to demand, probably because people are unaware of which decryptors they SHOULD use. Yes, most of the decryptors can have a good use, it depends a lot on their price and item invented. Short of Gallente decryptors, they're nowhere near their actual value (i.e. the "saved price" when doing invention with or without them). Of course, not all situations justify usage of expensive decryptors (especially module invention), and in some cases, a no-decryptor job is your best option. _
[CNVTF] is recruiting | Char creation guide | Stack-nerfing explained |
Fswd
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Posted - 2007.09.19 20:51:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Gort
Originally by: Ira Theos This is just another glaring case of CCP demonstrating their great skill at putting their head up their arse when it comes to Eve's economic model. Why don't they sit down with their economics guru professor and let him explain to them in simple terms why the still existing T2 Cartel combined with stupid cost ratios in invention will not support a "player driven" economy. CCP's ignorant concern about not offending the handful of "beta" players who own all the T2 BPOs is spoiling the game for 98 percent or more of it's paying customers. What is the point of worrying about isk sellers when the basic economic model of the game is so fatally flawed by design?
Now, THAT's a whine....
No its actually the truth in this case . Since invention; look at hoe the t2 mod prices dropped. --- Free exotic dancers for mods that mod my sig
*Snip* Please do not discuss moderation in your signature. -Yipsilanti ([email protected]) <-- freebie for you |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2007.09.19 21:07:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Akita T Also, you can see using a ship as meta-item is not that hot
I'll go further and say that using a basic T1 item in any invention job is pointless. I haven't seen any significant results suggesting otherwise. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
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Posted - 2007.09.19 21:12:00 -
[27]
This thread makes me facepalm.
Did anyone, before they went off into invention, actually put some thought into what they were doing? Create a spreadsheet, do an economic analysis, figure out if something would be profitable or not?
Thought not . Module invention is very profitable if you do the right modules and a little planning, I'm getting about a 400-500m profit a week through it - however, if I wouldn't have done some legwork and made my spreadsheets, I'd doubt I'd have broken even.
Ship invention is even more difficult...
Eve Golden Rules |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2007.09.19 21:15:00 -
[28]
Hey, I do my best; the spreadsheet that Akita T linked to above is a modified version of one of mine that I made public a few days ago. As long as people keep reading the forums, they don't really have any excuse. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.09.19 21:16:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Thanos Draicon Perhaps CCP should consider increasing the availability of decryptors,
More people are doing exploration. Which would equate to more and more decryptors being found. And this will slowly find its way into the market.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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ollobrains
Mission Invasion Squad
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Posted - 2007.09.19 21:41:00 -
[30]
mmm load it up with t2 rigs u might get a shot
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