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Slim percentage chance to invent a BPO

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Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.20 10:47:00 - [1] Discuss.
Cornucopian Gallente Orias Fringe Enterprises United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.20 10:49:00 - [2] /signed would give inventors something to look forward to. Slim would be like 2.5% though. ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer." Originally by: Royaldo complete win by Cornucopian!
Kyoto Rose	Posted - 2007.09.20 10:51:00 - [3] Edited by: Kyoto Rose on 20/09/2007 11:01:31 Wow, you just brought back the lottery, except people who work harder don't have a larger stake, unless you count running multiple invention jobs.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.09.20 10:57:00 - [4] Originally by: Cornucopian /signed would give inventors something to look forward to. Slim would be like 2.5% though. Slim would be like 0.5% max My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:01:00 - [5] Originally by: Kyoto Rose Way to bring back the lottery. :) Except for the part where you would be able to pick your resulting BPO based upon your initial BPC. And Sheriff's right. It'd be in the neighborhood of 1% or below.
UGWidowmaker Caldari The Ankou The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:08:00 - [6] ye make bpo happend and ill go invent OMFG I am the widowmaker stay tuned.
Rashmika Clavain Gallente Revelation Space	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:10:00 - [7] Edited by: Rashmika Clavain on 20/09/2007 11:11:16 Ummm slim in this situation, for me, should be 0.0000000001 Bear in mind the total amount of invention jobs running, I wouldn't want to see a situation where someone somewhere gets t2 BPO every day.
Saint Luka The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:12:00 - [8] Originally by: Cornucopian /signed would give inventors something to look forward to. Slim would be like 2.5% though. Hardly a slim chance that, 5 bpos per 200 inventions, heh. slim would be something like 0.000001 and i dont think thats unreasonable. -
RaTTuS BIG Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:17:00 - [9] Umm - I'd like ccp to publish the amount of researchg jobs that where ongoing at teh end of the Lottery -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve & RaTTuS Home
Amaron Ghant Caldari b00's Crew	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:27:00 - [10] Edited by: Amaron Ghant on 20/09/2007 11:27:34 Now. If it cost 100k RP to set up a t2 bpo invention job, AND whether or not the job succeeded you lost the RP, AND if the chance of success was small THEN it might work. It's more research orientated that way. Thats my 10 pence worth at least.
Admiral Nova Strike Team Nova	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:29:00 - [11] 1% is not slim. Slim is like 1/1,000,000 or lower. If it was 1% there would be hundreds of BPOs for each T2 item in just a couple of weeks.
Amerame Section XIII	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:31:00 - [12] Edited by: Amerame on 20/09/2007 11:31:26 Horrible idea, would be a huge nerf to invention in the long run.
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:35:00 - [13] Not a wise idea. No matter how slim the chance we will soon have plenty of winners. Lets say there is a 2.5% chance (as suggested above) to get an original. 2.5% is not alot but we have to remember here that this meens that on average more than 1 in 50 will be a BPO, even if this BPO chance is only possible among the successfull invention runs this would still give alot of BPO's fast. I would not be suprised if a high profit T2 BP would over the whole server spawn 20-30 BPO's per day if this was implemented, if the chance was dropped down to 0.5% then naturally the number of BPO's spawned per day would drop but it would in all probability be more than one per day. Thus in order to not completely flood the market (wich may or may not be a good idea) there would have to be a max limit of how many BPO's can spawn wich like posted above would land us back on a lottery (lottery = BAD). In reality there not being any T2 originals is not a problem in itself, personally I am much looking forward to seeing how any new T2 ships and modules will be priced when there are no T2 originals. True there will be no base steady output of thise however as its a level playing field. For this reason I expect more people will get in on thise invention runs something that will show in their prices. If the no T2 BPO items works out like I hope then CCP should set in motion the 2+ year timer to remove all T2 BPO's. At the very least I hope CCP has lerned not to include more BPO's for such potent items and that we only see T3+ BPC's.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:35:00 - [14] Maybe if the BPOs had much worse ME/PE stats than the invented BPCs we currently get, to compensate for not requiring datacores, BPCs & decryptors, and couldn't be researched. But I'd still say that this isn't a good idea. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:38:00 - [15] sounds a lot a door opened to "bpo farming" ------ Proud Janitor of Tides of Silence
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:39:00 - [16] Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 20/09/2007 11:45:39 Originally by: Cornucopian /signed would give inventors something to look forward to. Slim would be like 2.5% though. I really hope you're joking,,,, 100 people, run,, oh,,, 100 invention jobs each in a day,, congratulations,, 250 BPO's just entered the world. Now,,, there's how many people in EVE? Improve Market Competition!
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:54:00 - [17] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Cornucopian /signed would give inventors something to look forward to. Slim would be like 2.5% though. Slim would be like 0.5% max So give me my 10 BPOs please.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.20 12:01:00 - [18] Originally by: Amarria Black Discuss. A bad idea. This is just the return of the BPO lottery in a barely different form, and would negate the whole point of invention. A (very) small chance of a 50- or 100-run BPC would be sufficient jackpot tbh. Even better would be the (very, very) small chance to invent something unique, something like (but maybe not quite as powerful as) an officer item. How cool would it be to have something named after you? And once you've invented it, you're the only one who can do a unique version of that item, with a merely very small chance of getting more runs of that item in future. That would be a much more interesting jackpot than just getting a money-fountain IMO. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
marry K	Posted - 2007.09.20 12:47:00 - [19] Originally by: Saint Luka Originally by: Cornucopian /signed would give inventors something to look forward to. Slim would be like 2.5% though. Hardly a slim chance that, 5 bpos per 200 inventions, heh. slim would be something like 0.000001 and i dont think thats unreasonable. I think 0.00000000% would be the best number.
Carlisle Perera Karwal Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.09.20 13:03:00 - [20] Maybe not an BPO, but maybe a high run bpc .. make the results more random and less predictable ...
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.20 13:57:00 - [21] Edited by: Amarria Black on 20/09/2007 14:01:47 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Amarria Black Discuss. A bad idea. This is just the return of the BPO lottery in a barely different form, and would negate the whole point of invention. A (very) small chance of a 50- or 100-run BPC would be sufficient jackpot tbh. Even better would be the (very, very) small chance to invent something unique, something like (but maybe not quite as powerful as) an officer item. How cool would it be to have something named after you? And once you've invented it, you're the only one who can do a unique version of that item, with a merely very small chance of getting more runs of that item in future. That would be a much more interesting jackpot than just getting a money-fountain IMO. I like this idea. I'll take a rack of Chribba's Strip Miners (+20% yield to veldspar). I originally posed this idea with the thought in mind that one run in, say, ten thousand would yield better results. A high run BPC would be one option. A one-shot faction mod (based upon your character standings?) would be another one. A BPO would be a third. Possibly all three in varying amounts, with a BPO being the most coveted and most rare. I like the way you think. Do you have any thoughts on how to break up the T2 BPO cartels? B/c invention's clearly not cutting it ATM. It's like whizzing on a forest fire.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.20 14:18:00 - [22] Originally by: Amarria Black Edited by: Amarria Black on 20/09/2007 14:01:47 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Amarria Black Discuss. A bad idea. This is just the return of the BPO lottery in a barely different form, and would negate the whole point of invention. A (very) small chance of a 50- or 100-run BPC would be sufficient jackpot tbh. Even better would be the (very, very) small chance to invent something unique, something like (but maybe not quite as powerful as) an officer item. How cool would it be to have something named after you? And once you've invented it, you're the only one who can do a unique version of that item, with a merely very small chance of getting more runs of that item in future. That would be a much more interesting jackpot than just getting a money-fountain IMO. I like this idea. I'll take a rack of Chribba's Strip Miners (+20% yield to veldspar). I originally posed this idea with the thought in mind that one run in, say, ten thousand would yield better results. A high run BPC would be one option. A one-shot faction mod (based upon your character standings?) would be another one. A BPO would be a third. Possibly all three in varying amounts, with a BPO being the most coveted and most rare. I like the way you think. Do you have any thoughts on how to break up the T2 BPO cartels? B/c invention's clearly not cutting it ATM. It's like whizzing on a forest fire. Really you think there are still T2 cartels? And what are the sign of the activity of the cartels? Usually the sign is inflated price, but inflated price would attract inventors in swarm, so what it is?
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.20 14:24:00 - [23] Originally by: Venkul Mul Really you think there are still T2 cartels? And what are the sign of the activity of the cartels? Usually the sign is inflated price, but inflated price would attract inventors in swarm, so what it is? Not T2 cartels in the original sense of the word. I'm talking about the multiple T2 BPO holders who either got theirs for little to no cost or long ago paid theirs off, and who are willing to make slim profits over time by keeping prices at or below the threshold of profitability when the same object is created via invention. I'm talking about the permanent and nigh-unbreakable market dominance of someone who has a T2 BPO in their hangar.
Trask Kilraen The Older Gamers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.09.20 14:43:00 - [24] Well, one option would be to permit invention using T2 BPC's to result in a T2 BPO. But chance of success would have to be MUCH lower. Maybe some like T2 BPC + need to use something like 10x the number of Data Cores, and reduce chance of success significantly. Maybe require a skill of 5 in each engineering area to attempt. Or something.
Zenst Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.09.20 14:58:00 - [25] Yes totaly agree as alot of Items will never have T2 BPO's and basicly that means sheild tankers get advantage as they got remote T2 sheild transfers into game unlike armour remotes :(. But seriously I agree but a real low percentage like 1 in 1000 or even higher. There is alot of people doing lab work, lets make the odd's realistic.
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.20 17:48:00 - [26] Originally by: Trask Kilraen Well, one option would be to permit invention using T2 BPC's to result in a T2 BPO. But chance of success would have to be MUCH lower. Maybe some like T2 BPC + need to use something like 10x the number of Data Cores, and reduce chance of success significantly. Maybe require a skill of 5 in each engineering area to attempt. Or something. This is another good idea. T2 BPC + research = slim chance of T2 BPO. Perhaps require some sort of rare and/or disgustingly expensive decoder + an asston of datacores.
Alrich	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:12:00 - [27] NOOOOOO!!!! do not ad more t2 bpo's! better to hava a chanse at a higher run bpc. a 100 run bpc (for a ship) is a much better option in my eyes than a bpo.
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:20:00 - [28] Originally by: Alrich NOOOOOO!!!! do not ad more t2 bpo's! better to hava a chanse at a higher run bpc. a 100 run bpc (for a ship) is a much better option in my eyes than a bpo. A good quantity of the opposition to this idea seems centered on the idea of seeding more T2 BPOs. T3 is on the horizon. Assuming the progression is linear, inventing T3 will require a T2 BPO. Should this be limited to only current T2 BPO holders?
War Fairy	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:24:00 - [29] Speaking as an inventor. The only way to release T2 BPOs would be to put them on the market. Sold by the same NPCs in the same locations as the T1 versions. Any releae of T2 BPO via invention would effectly kill invention except for BPO farmers. It would be easier and quicker to run missions or rat and buy the T2 BPO from the BPO farmers than it would be to deal with invention. As for the %s that are being thrown around, please keep this in mind. For modules I can do 190 invention jobs a day if I kept the lines running 24/7. With training I could do more.
Jimi Tetro	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:25:00 - [30] Originally by: Amarria Black . I'm talking about the permanent and nigh-unbreakable market dominance of someone who has a T2 BPO in their hangar. A producer with a single t2 bpo has nil market dominance, the volume they can build is insignificant in the bigger picture. i.e. a previously very lucrative bpo was the cap recharger II, now a single bpo can produce ~25-35 units in a day depending on skills/research and is totally insignificant to the total sales of that unit per day across the universe.
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:31:00 - [31] Originally by: Jimi Tetro Originally by: Amarria Black . I'm talking about the permanent and nigh-unbreakable market dominance of someone who has a T2 BPO in their hangar. A producer with a single t2 bpo has nil market dominance, the volume they can build is insignificant in the bigger picture. i.e. a previously very lucrative bpo was the cap recharger II, now a single bpo can produce ~25-35 units in a day depending on skills/research and is totally insignificant to the total sales of that unit per day across the universe. Yet said person producing from a BPO can accept a lower profit margin and undercut base cost for an inventor and still turn a profit. This is the underlying problem: an inventor can never compete with a T2 BPO holder who is willing to cut price to near base cost.
War Fairy	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:42:00 - [32] Edited by: War Fairy on 20/09/2007 18:42:20 Originally by: Amarria Black Yet said person producing from a BPO can accept a lower profit margin and undercut base cost for an inventor and still turn a profit. This is the underlying problem: an inventor can never compete with a T2 BPO holder who is willing to cut price to near base cost. The world is not fair. If you have more ships or isk than me I can't compete so you should give me some. We should all be equal and have all the same stuff! Jokes aside. This is the nature of MMO. There are always things that are grandfathered. This is something MMO players either need to deal with or they need to quit. Yes you will never have the same build cost as a BPO but if invention couldn't compete then prices wouldn't have gone down.
Jack Icegaard The Omega Project	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:55:00 - [33] Originally by: Amarria Black Yet said person producing from a BPO can accept a lower profit margin and undercut base cost for an inventor and still turn a profit. This is the underlying problem: an inventor can never compete with a T2 BPO holder who is willing to cut price to near base cost. Demand increases with lower prices which means that even a cartel including all T2 BPO holders would not be able to keep prices below what is profitable for invention. When there were no invention, BPO holders adjusted prices to a very high level and thereby kept demand in level with the rate they could produce. T2 BPOs have a low production rate. They cant put invetors out of business. I invent 12 different modules, all wich i sell with nice profit, value of datacores included. I think its pretty safe to assume that T3 production will not be limited to those that currently holds a T2 BPO. But to supply t2 BPOs through a invention lottery grind is a bad idea.
Jimi Tetro	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:56:00 - [34] Originally by: Amarria BlackYet said person producing from a BPO can accept a lower profit margin and undercut base cost for an inventor and still turn a profit. This is the underlying problem: an inventor can never compete with a T2 BPO holder who is willing to cut price to near base cost.[/quote On and 1on1 basis that is true, however the prices of t2 mods are now set by the inventors as the demand far outweighs what the bpo's can produce. yes a bpo owner makes more profit per item that an inventor but that doesnt mean market dominance.
Gort Storm Guard Elite	Posted - 2007.09.20 19:01:00 - [35] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Amarria Black Discuss. A bad idea. This is just the return of the BPO lottery in a barely different form, and would negate the whole point of invention. A (very) small chance of a 50- or 100-run BPC would be sufficient jackpot tbh. Even better would be the (very, very) small chance to invent something unique, something like (but maybe not quite as powerful as) an officer item. How cool would it be to have something named after you? And once you've invented it, you're the only one who can do a unique version of that item, with a merely very small chance of getting more runs of that item in future. That would be a much more interesting jackpot than just getting a money-fountain IMO. This sounds good. G -- When in doubt, empty the magazine.
Evenfall Phoenix The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.09.20 19:11:00 - [36] I like the idea of there being a chance of something unique being invented. In fact there really does need to be something like this. Currently T2 BPO holders are able to still beat out inventing. Not to mention that inventing itself is borked as all hell currently. But I was thinking this morning that if CCP stealth injected the ability for inventors to create a T2 named item, it might give inventors an edge over T2 BPO holders that inventors do not currently have. There's very few things that are actually profitable when it comes to inventing, everyone is currently stuck doing the same thing. Personally I'd love to start inventing T2 Names ECM modules instead of Nighthawks and HACs.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.20 19:21:00 - [37] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 20/09/2007 19:26:18 Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: Venkul Mul Really you think there are still T2 cartels? And what are the sign of the activity of the cartels? Usually the sign is inflated price, but inflated price would attract inventors in swarm, so what it is? Not T2 cartels in the original sense of the word. I'm talking about the multiple T2 BPO holders who either got theirs for little to no cost or long ago paid theirs off, and who are willing to make slim profits over time by keeping prices at or below the threshold of profitability when the same object is created via invention. I'm talking about the permanent and nigh-unbreakable market dominance of someone who has a T2 BPO in their hangar. There is a major flea in your reasoning: It is possible to do what you suggest only if the demand is lower than the total BPO production. But the items with that kind of demand are the same that had a low price even before invention. The surce of your pains with the invented items aren't the people that own the T2 BPO but the inventor that think that "self produced" datacores are free and so they can undercut prices till they get a return from the material used but not the datacores. You could remove the T21 BPO and still get people to undercut you under invention cost simply because for their thinking the minerals they mine are free and the datacores they recieve from the agents are free. Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: Jimi Tetro Originally by: Amarria Black . I'm talking about the permanent and nigh-unbreakable market dominance of someone who has a T2 BPO in their hangar. A producer with a single t2 bpo has nil market dominance, the volume they can build is insignificant in the bigger picture. i.e. a previously very lucrative bpo was the cap recharger II, now a single bpo can produce ~25-35 units in a day depending on skills/research and is totally insignificant to the total sales of that unit per day across the universe. Yet said person producing from a BPO can accept a lower profit margin and undercut base cost for an inventor and still turn a profit. This is the underlying problem: an inventor can never compete with a T2 BPO holder who is willing to cut price to near base cost. Here enter the reseller: he look potential sell prices, the small number of items sold under market price, buy them all and resell at higher price. Emnd result: the BPO owner get little isk, the reseller is happy and the market price stay high. For any item with a number of marketed items higher than the T2 BPO production there is no chance of the price going lower than invention unless a big number of inventors decide to sell at a price lower than invention cost.
Nexus Kinnon Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2007.09.20 19:24:00 - [38] No.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.20 19:43:00 - [39] To return to the basic topic: it is probable that at some point CCP will allow the invention or production of T2 BPO, as it was stated in one of the old devblog that it was under study. The key points, at least for me, are: 1) it sould not be a random system based on luck working on BPC, this kind of system has all the problem of the old lottery (and probably will again start accusations of favoritism); 2) it should require very high research skill in the right fields (at least the 2 main field for each BPO at 5); 3) it should be a totally intentional process starting from a BPO (not a BPC) with the aim of getting a T2 BPO at the end; 4) the chance of success should be know before starting the process. I would even more like a long process with granted results as the end, as it will be a multy billion project most of the time. My idea is something like getting a T1 BPO of the right tipe to a research agent with both the relevant skills, asking him to start researching the BPO. When the agent reach a specific number of RP (applied only to the BPO, no datacore produced) he will produce a normal or bad ME/PE BPO. Every day the agent will give a mission for extra RP. Most mission will require feeding him datacores or extra BPC of the same kind for experimentations, with the extra RP based on the RP value of the datacores; i.e. if you are requested to give him ME datacores you get 40 RP for each datacore (yes, less than the RP prices of the datacores). Other items he could require are R.DB of some corporation, the high-tech manufactoring tools and so on (not, I pray CCP, tritanium and take this packet, something serious).
Benvie	Posted - 2007.09.22 04:28:00 - [40] Anything but an extremely small (like 1 in 50,000) chance to get a BPO would ruin the market. Remember that producing from a BPO is much much cheaper than invention, thus BPO owners can easily lower the price below the rate at which invention is profitable or even break-even. Right now with any popular item the percent created from BPOs is small enough that they aren't able to affect the price much, therefore there is room for invention to be profitable. If you start introducing a supply of BPOs then the amount produced from those BPOs will steadily lower the price of the item. If there's enough BPOs so that they alone can cover demand, then the price will go below the point which it is profitable for invention at all. Inventing new BPOs ultimately would make invention itself a waste of time. The only reason to do invention from that point on would be in attempts to make more BPOs. This can be seen in low demand items in which the BPOs cover all the demand. They aren't even worth inventing because BPO owners have already reduced the price below the threshold. The price is low because demand is low.
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.09.22 05:16:00 - [41] Edited by: Celeste Coeval on 22/09/2007 05:21:16 /signed but not a bpo,but a chance to make a researchable high run bpc? "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein A blog of truth (not mine)
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.09.22 05:18:00 - [42] Originally by: Gort Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Amarria Black Discuss. A bad idea. This is just the return of the BPO lottery in a barely different form, and would negate the whole point of invention. A (very) small chance of a 50- or 100-run BPC would be sufficient jackpot tbh. Even better would be the (very, very) small chance to invent something unique, something like (but maybe not quite as powerful as) an officer item. How cool would it be to have something named after you? And once you've invented it, you're the only one who can do a unique version of that item, with a merely very small chance of getting more runs of that item in future. That would be a much more interesting jackpot than just getting a money-fountain IMO. This sounds good. G thats t3 and beyond talk "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein A blog of truth (not mine)
Pax Uranus Sofa.Kingdom	Posted - 2007.09.22 05:45:00 - [43] Yeah. No. What'd be even better, and much more fun is if there was a slight percentage chance per failed invention attempt of someone randomly out there eating the brunt of your wacky science attempt. As in, randomly the next person to deliver an invention attempt that fails has it blow up in their face like Jokey Smurf. This would mean that they'd die and lose their clone. That. Would. Rock.
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Naughty People The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2007.09.22 06:03:00 - [44] The problem with ANY system that creates T2 BPOs is that, over time, more and more will be created. Over time, this will cause people who have been doing it longer to dominate the market, while new entrants will find it impossible to compete. The beauty of invention in its present state is that, while there are fairly high barriers to market entry (as there should be), anyone could get into invention if they can invest the time and money needed to satisfy the basic requirements (R&D skills, data interface, access to BPCs and datacores). Of course, there's an added benefit accorded to those who put in the extra time and money to make a career out of it (grinding standings to get their own R&D agents, training Industrial skills to produce what they invent, trade skills to sell it, buying and setting up a research POS, etc). But that's the way it should be. Dabblers can dabble, specialists can specialize, but nobody is completely barred. _
Eternus8lux8lucis Minmatar FW Inc	Posted - 2007.09.22 11:19:00 - [45] No new BPO lotto at all. Only suggestions are to add my agreement to the ideas of better bpcs in terms of either a) more runs (20,30,40,50,100,etc), b) better stats (positive ME/PEs) or c) higher meta items with limited runs. The idea of being able to name the meta items and having them be random variables would be an interesting idea. Itd make saturation, even of two identical modules with different names, near impossible and kind of interesting to see whatd happen. The only way Id ever see BPO invention would be from T1 BPOs themselves. Pay to play. Want a T2 Battleship? Itll cost you at least a T1 BPO with a % chance factor involved. Max skills maybe a 1% chance. Thats a lot of isk to pour down the drain trying to get a T2 BPO for the bigger stuff. And thatd be neverminding other modules inherent to the invention cycle. Then have ME/PE of the original BPO tied to the starting ME/PE of the T2 BPO, such as that a green T1 BPO might end up starting off at -30ME/-20PE but be researchable to get better amounts so itd be an all out uphill climb. Itd keep the costs so high and the %s so low youd either have to be foolish, desperate or have way to much isk to sink into a BPO. Course people would do it eventually as theyd need another isk sink. But Id rather see some of the other ideas on # of runs, meta values or better stats see the light of day long before BPOs. Yet I realize that wed all run into the same favoritism aspects even with that system. So wed be in the same place. With randomness people cry foul because they dont hit their numbers while others hit more than they figure they should. With skills you run into the old, established, skilled up players with more isk having dominance. 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

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