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K'yrin
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Posted - 2007.09.22 13:29:00 -
[1]
Agreed.
Forox needs two more turrets, one will not cut it.
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K'yrin
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Posted - 2007.09.22 19:50:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I also worry that a +2 turret slot Ferox would completely obsolete the Cyclone in close range combat. The Cyclone uses autos in falloff - and the Ferox can get hella range out of blasters. But, +1 or +2 turret Ferox would be ok I think ... something needs to be done.
Liang
Then argue for a Cyclone buff as well instead of a 'limited' buff to the Ferox. With one extra turret I doubt it would be on par with the Brutix which also comes into the equation, let alone the tier 2s.
What the Cyclone needs IMO:
1 more mid - it can't passive tank like a Ferox and with only four tanking mods post MWD it doesn't tank well at all.
More CPU - its a shame to have to sacrifice a low to get decent mids/highs as well as 2 gyros/DCU or 3 gyros.
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K'yrin
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Posted - 2007.09.22 20:12:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos
It has the same number of mids as a Ferox, but it gets an extra high slot. What the Cyclone needs is more CPU to fit those extra gyros, whereas the Ferox needs a serious rethink.
I'm also really not surprised that a ship receiving a shield boost amount bonus can't passive tank very well.
Not surprising no. But the two don't have the same worth in PvP. A 2 LSE 2 Invuln + resist bonus tank on the Ferox gives good survivability under focus fire but the LSB + hardeners tank of the Cyclone doesn't come close since it is extremely easy to overwhelm.
For a ship that size, a boost ammount bonus is worth less than a resist bonus in the vast majority of situations.
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K'yrin
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Posted - 2007.09.23 10:02:00 -
[4]
Edited by: K''yrin on 23/09/2007 10:02:22
Originally by: Liang Nuren
No, if there is to be a buffing of the Ferox, there will be a buffing of all Tier 1 BC's. End transmission.
Liang
Start your own thread on the other ships then. Bottom line is the Ferox is currently the worse tier 1 BC and giving it a single turret would not put it on par with the Brutix. Leaving the tier 1 BCs as is would only do one thing: maintain the superiority of the Gallente t1 BC over all the others.
Even if only the Ferox were boosted (which is not my preferred outcome) it would still be an improvement over the current situation. Gallente online.
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K'yrin
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Posted - 2007.09.23 12:03:00 -
[5]
Edited by: K''yrin on 23/09/2007 12:06:14 Learn to read will you. Harbinger and Hurricane are not tier 1. With the current tier system they are not comparable, the Brutix and Ferox however, are, and aren't on par by a long shot.
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K'yrin
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Posted - 2007.09.23 12:45:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Goumindong
Yea, because when i am shooting ships i really care that the Brutix is a tier 1 battlecruiser and not a tier 2. And when buying ships to shoot people, i really care that its tier 1 and not tier 2.
No, i care about my skills and its abilities. Its abilities are terrible. Skills we can normalize for the sake of comparison.
Tier 2s are better than tier 1s. How insightful of you. That does not change the fact that the tier 1 BCs are not balanced against eachother and that currently the Brutix, with its seven bonused turrets and 50 m3 drone bay is far ahead of the other three tier 1s in terms of competitiveness. As I've stated before I am for the abolition of the tier system but wether it happens or not all tier 1s should be on the same level.
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K'yrin
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Posted - 2007.09.23 12:59:00 -
[7]
Edited by: K''yrin on 23/09/2007 13:05:55 I see the Brutix used regularly and cannot say the same of the other three tier 1s, so they aren't all equally bad.
Tier doesn't matter in terms of absolute combat performance no, it is however how the game was designed.
I said "Gallente online" in response to Liang saying that if the Ferox were given two more turrets it would become "Caldari online" and was highlighting the ridiculousness of that statement.
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K'yrin
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Posted - 2007.09.23 15:39:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Goumindong
Lets just say this. If the Ferox were given the boosts proposed. 1 high, 1 med, 2 turrets and fitting. I would not ever fly a Brutix over a Ferox. Med slots > low slots, shield resist bonus > armor boost bonus.
(...)
I've never suggested the ferox be given 1 high, 1 med and 2 extra turrets, nor do I agree with that suggestion unless something similar were done to the other t1 bcs. So I don't see why you're telling me this.
The prophecy has the advantage of making a better solo boat than the ferox, with ACs its dps is low but it has good endurance and walks all over a solo setup ferox. Wether that is worth more or less than performance in fleets is open to debate but judging by the market prices of the four tier 1s the Ferox is the least popular. The Cyclone has the advantage of better dps and far better mobility over the ferox, and no need to mention the Brutix.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Boosting only the Ferox would completely destroy all current balance in the Tier 1 category - and to hell with that. No, there will be no boosting of only the Ferox. Liang
What current balance between tier 1s? There is the Brutix, and then there is the rest.
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K'yrin
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Posted - 2007.09.23 16:47:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Goumindong
No. Fly in a fleet, the Ferox is actually better than a Brutix there.
5x rails, gang mod Mwd, sb, tc, tc, tc pg mod, dmg, dmg, dmg
Or
5x Rails, gang mod mwd, damp, damp, damp, damp pg mod, dmg, dmg, dmg
Fly solo or in small to med gang and the Brutix wtfpwns the Ferox. One role the Ferox does better doesn't make it a better ship, not by a long shot.
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K'yrin
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Posted - 2007.09.23 17:08:00 -
[10]
Edited by: K''yrin on 23/09/2007 17:09:38
Originally by: Goumindong
It does in that one role ;)
which means that the statement.
Quote: There is the Brutix, and then there is the rest.
is false.
If I had wanted to talk about performance in fleets I would have said so. The Brutix's overall performance is far better than the others, especially the Ferox. Hence the statement is right.
The Drake is better than the Myrm at killing drones. Does that mean the Myrm isn't a far better ship (pre nerf)? No.
e: and you lose points for being extremely pedantic.
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K'yrin
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Posted - 2007.09.23 17:18:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Goumindong
Fleets are not exactly a specialty like "killing drones" is a specialty.
The point being that a ship can be better than another in specific circumstances while being inferior overall.
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