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Splagada
Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.28 07:18:00 -
[31]
being a 2006 player i did that. went all minmatar specialist, BS and up (now rounding up basic cap skills and navigation). i can compete fairly well in minmatar cruiser and BS, but cant fly crap apart from that
had made an alt too that was made for production.she makes caps now, has also some other useless stuff like empire control 5, outpost construction etc.
i tested implants on her as she never undocks, and she passed my "main" months ago :/
so yes. you can "compete" whatever that means. youre just less versatile and cannot just hop into the flavour of the month setup ------
Proud Janitor of Tides of Silence
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Hilabana
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.09.28 07:31:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Dr Grot I'm new to Eve, after a few weeks playing and learning about the game it's suddenly dawned on me, the gulf between new players and high SP veterans is staggering.
I was just wondering though, will new players ever be able to catch up or do you think the continuing introduction of new skills and content will make this impossible ?
I love this game but it would be nice to know that one day I'll be able to compete on a level playing field with these veterans.
In 3 to 4 years you will be the same in SP as a older player.. just train and work on your skills.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.09.28 08:10:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Akita T on 28/09/2007 08:14:01
Originally by: Dr Grot I'm new to Eve, after a few weeks playing and learning about the game it's suddenly dawned on me, the gulf between new players and high SP veterans is staggering.
And so is the gulf between a baby's experience and a 30-year-old's experience. That doesn't prevent a baby eventually growing up, going to school/college (or not) and getting a high-paying job (ether through knowledge, skill or luck).
Quote: I was just wondering though, will new players ever be able to catch up or do you think the continuing introduction of new skills and content will make this impossible ?
Since each and every skill in the game HAS a L5 cap, and there's so many possible fields you can skill up in, for each and every PARTICULAR field, yes, new players can and WILL eventually catch up with any veteran. That's the beauty of it... older players don't just get "better" all the time, they get better in MORE THINGS.
For instance, a 60-mil SP industry/science oriented character WILL lose badly to a 10-mil SP combat-oriented character if they face eachother in combat. Conversely, a 60-mil SP combat-oriented pilot is powerless to "take over a market" if you square off against a 10-mil SP industrialist/trader/hauler.
Quote: I love this game but it would be nice to know that one day I'll be able to compete on a level playing field with these veterans.
As already said, in each and every PARTICULAR field or sub-field, you most probably will... eventually. The veterans just get to "master" a field earlier as you do, and get to master more fields as you do. _
[CNVTF] is recruiting | Char creation guide | Stack-nerfing explained |
Kastar
Memphis Technologies Intergalactic Brotherhood
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Posted - 2007.09.28 08:12:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Dr Grot I'm new to Eve, after a few weeks playing and learning about the game it's suddenly dawned on me, the gulf between new players and high SP veterans is staggering.
I was just wondering though, will new players ever be able to catch up or do you think the continuing introduction of new skills and content will make this impossible ?
I love this game but it would be nice to know that one day I'll be able to compete on a level playing field with these veterans.
Answer: NO. ... you won't need to do. You can excell in one field very fast. The only advantage us veterans have is that we can excell in several things. Since we can't do them at once though (eg battle-production) that's not an issue. -----------------------------------------------
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Izo Azlion
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.28 08:26:00 -
[35]
Given enough time, and using the right methods. Just because your new, why should you get special bonus'? You already start with 10x the SP we used too.
I'm nearly 2 years in EVE, and I'll be at around 30mil SP when I hit. THis is because I did most my learning tree, and got a set of implants, early on. I'm several million in front of some of my friends the same age, and have passed some older than I.
While I will not really catch up to 'vets', I wont ever be dissapointed in my skills because:
I made them, and they're 2 years work. I can fly what I want to fly, and I can fly them well. I have some good people around me, and SP really isnt everything.
Izo Azlion.
---
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Redpants
Gallente Dead Eagle North Star Confederation
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Posted - 2007.09.28 08:31:00 -
[36]
I'm drunk so give me some leeway here...
You'll never catch up to a character who's 4 years old in EVE. The same way you'll never catch up to your master in a martial arts class. In EVE it's more than skills and skillpoints, it's experience.
That said though everybody only gets to Gunnery 5 once if you follow me.
However even a 1 month old character can compete, given the right skills and situation. An out of the box Capsuleer can be a good tackler for example, and have an impact in a fleet engagement.
So the short answer is no you'll never exactly catch up with old players, but yes you can compete, and you're already ahead of the curve on everybody who comes in after you.
"My once immaculate white pants are now stained from the weak and innocent. I don't wear red." |
Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.09.28 08:37:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Dr Grot I'm new to Eve, after a few weeks playing and learning about the game it's suddenly dawned on me, the gulf between new players and high SP veterans is staggering.
Yes, but to specialise in certain ships & ship types doesn't take such crazy SP. You will be able to fly less ships to a good effect then the vets, but it doesn't really matter.
SP doesn't equal winning. At least half of my victims have the same SP or more as me.
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F'nog
Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2007.09.28 08:53:00 -
[38]
Originally by: bldyannoyed I have to ask.
Why does any player think that they should at some point be better than the people who have been playing for 3 or 4 years?
These 4 year old vets are still training skills just like every other player in Eve.
They arent gonna stop advancing to make some new characters feel better about themselves.
I think this comes from every(?) other MMOG out there where there's a level cap. Eventually, you'll get to level X and be just like all the other level Xs, more or less. This has trained people to think that unless they have a quantifiable way easily to tell how they compare to another that something is wrong.
But of course in Eve, even if you have the same SPs, you could be totally different. One could be a mega-industrialist, the other could be a hard-core PvPer. But just looking at SP isn't gonna tell you this.
I used to get It. Then It changed. Now I don't even know what It is.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2007.09.28 09:36:00 -
[39]
What matters most is skill, not skills!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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fuze
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Posted - 2007.09.28 09:52:00 -
[40]
In general vet players have more ISK to spend. |
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Izo Azlion
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.28 10:08:00 -
[41]
Originally by: fuze In general vet players have more ISK to spend.
I could say the same about life. 40 year olds generally have more to spend than 17 year olds.
Its a null and void statement. People have worked for it. So what if they have more ISK, I fail to see what your getting at?
Izo Azlion.
---
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Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.28 10:19:00 -
[42]
Originally by: fuze In general vet players have more ISK to spend.
*looks at his age. ooh yeah born nearly 4-year old character!*
*looks at his wallet with 10mil*
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planetary interaction idea! |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2007.09.28 10:30:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 28/09/2007 10:30:43 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 28/09/2007 10:30:33
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: fuze In general vet players have more ISK to spend.
*looks at his age. ooh yeah born nearly 4-year old character!*
*looks at his wallet with 10mil*
10 mil!? You rich bugger!
Funnily enough, EVE is one of the games where "level" doesn't matter.
You can even be flying a t1 fitted rookie ship and beat a guy in a command ship, granted, a very poor pilot on a VERY bad day, but still.
Especially if oyu remember the golden rule, bring friends and cheat cheat cheat
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
fuze
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Posted - 2007.09.28 10:39:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Izo Azlion
Its a null and void statement. People have worked for it. So what if they have more ISK, I fail to see what your getting at?
Ignorance is bliss. |
Izo Azlion
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.28 10:44:00 -
[45]
Originally by: fuze
Originally by: Izo Azlion
Its a null and void statement. People have worked for it. So what if they have more ISK, I fail to see what your getting at?
Ignorance is bliss.
Yes, "we" (I'll assume myself as 2 years in is enough.) can afford more ships, mods, implants, whatever. However, the cost for everything goes up as you get "older" anyway.
So, good sir, what are you trying to get at?
Izo Azlion.
---
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Pliskkenn
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.28 10:49:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Izo Azlion Given enough time, and using the right methods. Just because your new, why should you get special bonus'? You already start with 10x the SP we used too.
I'm nearly 2 years in EVE, and I'll be at around 30mil SP when I hit. THis is because I did most my learning tree, and got a set of implants, early on. I'm several million in front of some of my friends the same age, and have passed some older than I.
While I will not really catch up to 'vets', I wont ever be dissapointed in my skills because:
I made them, and they're 2 years work. I can fly what I want to fly, and I can fly them well. I have some good people around me, and SP really isnt everything.
We started around the same time. Not only did I train my learning skills later, but only recently have I had implants in my head for any length of time. I'm sat at 21 Mill SP. Learning skills and implants really do make the difference. ---
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.09.28 10:56:00 -
[47]
There's another factor at work.
If you look my stats up on In-Eve you'll see that I have over 10mil SP in gunnery. Does this make me uber? Actually no. I fly missile boats these days so for the past year or more those 10mil SP have been irrelevant and in a sense a waste of training time.
I also have a ton of SP in industry - but I hardly ever build or research anything.
Then there's all the SP I have in mining..I haven't mined in over a year (which will come as a big shock to some people who know me of old, lol).
What do I mostly do right now?
I fly a Nighthawk and pop ships that are too stupid to realise how good my tank is. Okay so that's a lot of SP to do that as well but it doesn't take over 52mil SP just to do that. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Dr Grot
Gallente Warrior Eclipse
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Posted - 2007.09.28 10:56:00 -
[48]
Thank you for your time guys, very good
Quote: Why does any player think that they should at some point be better than the people who have been playing for 3 or 4 years?
I, nor anyone else in this thread has suggested anything of the sort. I just asked a question about being able to compete with said players. I received some very good responces too.
Quote: No you wont.
Now please leave and giev your stuff to me!
Nope not leaving, nope you can't have my stuff.
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Ecatherina W
Gallente Core Domination Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2007.09.28 11:08:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Dr Grot I'm new to Eve, after a few weeks playing and learning about the game it's suddenly dawned on me, the gulf between new players and high SP veterans is staggering.
I was just wondering though, will new players ever be able to catch up or do you think the continuing introduction of new skills and content will make this impossible ?
I love this game but it would be nice to know that one day I'll be able to compete on a level playing field with these veterans.
Why should they be able to catch up? Should the players who have paid for their subscription since 2003 not have an advantage?
I've played since April 2006 and I am doing fine by specializing, but of course my veteran corp mates of 2003 and so on have an advantage. They are better overall. I can have at least as much fun in the game though.
Kath ***** Ecatherina W ***** Empress of the Multiverse
DGAF Newbie Guide to Everything Eve
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000Hunter000
Gallente Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.09.28 11:22:00 -
[50]
to the OP
I hope not
well... mebbe if i could exchange my sp for iskies perhaps hahahahahahaa
1 bill isk per 1 mill sp
CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
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Roger Welco
Caldari WhiteGlaze Interstellar Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.28 11:29:00 -
[51]
Hi
being a player from the very beginning of eve, I have sure you will be able to complete. At the start the was no real 'specialization' like you have now, and even though i have a high SP (i did leave for 2 years) I have a lot of redundant skills, and a lot of skills that are either defuncked or now useless. So the high SP is meaningless with out some plan to start with.
I liken it in some way to the guy who knows a lot o9f useless information, that is useless for any thing other then the guy you want on your Pub quiz team :)
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King Dave
Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.09.28 11:37:00 -
[52]
You can, just save up lots of isk and buy one of the forums.
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Ubad
Minmatar Bandits Are Doomed
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Posted - 2007.09.28 11:39:00 -
[53]
+4 implants are a lot cheaper now I remember paying 80m+ now you can get them for about 18m.
You only need to train your learning skills to level 4 now to train the second tier, it used to be level 5.
So there's a small boost right there.
Not to mention the blood line characters have higher attributes and with the right path you can start with some learning skills at level 4 and sciene 4 (Just have to train cybernetics 1 to use +3s)
And you can now ask for advice before starting your character (I could of when I started), but back when Eve was new no one knew what they were doing.
And making isk was no doubt a lot harder back then and i'm guessing implants were quite rare.
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Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari Daikoku Fleet Shipyards
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Posted - 2007.09.28 11:44:00 -
[54]
Yes and No.
As said, in any one speciality you'll be able to close the gap. But it is only closing the gap. An old character is always going to have an edge and the reason why is simple.
You get:
Monkey Battleship V Large Coconut Cannon V Some Other Simian Skills V.
You're now pretty awesome at flying the tier 3 Monkey Battleship: The Painted Gibbon.
The problem lies in the supplementary skills that make flying it better. Untill you're hitting probably the 20 million SP mark, the veteran is outclassing you on leadership bonuses, fitting ease, tanking bonuses, weapon bonuses, navigation skills - all those skills that are pretty generic and apply to whatever task you are doing. Targetting and targetting speed, the list is huge and goes on and on and on.
So yes, you'll close the gap some due to the principle of diminishing returns, but for truly catching up you'll never really get there.
This is the benefit to being an old player and having worked on your character for those extra years.
~Ryoji Tanakama
Daikoku Fleet Shipyards |
Taint
Caldari The Ankou The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2007.09.28 11:57:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Dr Grot I'm new to Eve, after a few weeks playing and learning about the game it's suddenly dawned on me, the gulf between new players and high SP veterans is staggering.
I was just wondering though, will new players ever be able to catch up or do you think the continuing introduction of new skills and content will make this impossible ?
I love this game but it would be nice to know that one day I'll be able to compete on a level playing field with these veterans.
yes old players getting ****t
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Mekk Azal
November Night Industries
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Posted - 2007.09.28 12:09:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Cadela Fria
Originally by: Mekk Azal Its not only about the SP, if your smarter then your enemy you can defeat him, even if you have 5mill SP and he 15mill SP.
Various factors come into play when you PVP; Skillpoints, gameskills, logic, equipment and ship. You know that you cannot surpass older players so it would be wise to have some focus on gamemechanics and knowing how other ships works. Your facing a myrmidon? Take out it its drones.
Strategy and specialization is the key.
You sir, are right on the money *gives him offerings of beer*
Thank you, *takes the beer* got any more?
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RaTTuS
BIG Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.09.28 12:16:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Ubad +4 implants are a lot cheaper now I remember paying 80m+ now you can get them for about 18m.
true and you can get +5's +3 implants where not in game from the start
Originally by: Ubad
You only need to train your learning skills to level 4 now to train the second tier, it used to be level 5.
So there's a small boost right there.
True - again an advantage to the new players
Originally by: Ubad
Not to mention the blood line characters have higher attributes and
No completely wrong there - blood line chars have the same attrib's over all as the old ones
Originally by: Ubad
with the right path you can start with some learning skills at level 4 and sciene 4 (Just have to train cybernetics 1 to use +3s)
again true
Originally by: Ubad
And you can now ask for advice before starting your character (I could of when I started), but back when Eve was new no one knew what they were doing.
And making isk was no doubt a lot harder back then and i'm guessing implants were quite rare.
also true .. so not too bad -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve & RaTTuS Home
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Elder Bob
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.28 12:21:00 -
[58]
You will never be as good as a player who started earlier than you. Take long enough and you get can get even in one similar field, while he'll be able to do something more advanced or do more stuff.
Best bet is just to get loads of ISK together (it's pretty easy to make if you're smart) and then buy an old character on the forums.
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Firkragg
Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.09.28 12:29:00 -
[59]
Also remember that eve skills work on the law of diminishing returns. For each level of a skill the training time get longer but the increase is still the same. This means that large skillpoint differences dont mean a massive gap in ability.
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Adaris
D-L
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Posted - 2007.09.28 17:12:00 -
[60]
no. it would go against mathematics.
Unless ccp start every character with 46 million sp some day but then the oldies will be 211 sp etc... (which will never happen really)
*******
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