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Aoki Shinya
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Posted - 2007.09.28 02:58:00 -
[1]
Hey guys, I've been confused since starting EVE at the use of nanofiber internal structures. It just reduces mass right? So how does it make you faster? It doesn't actually increase your speed...
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Entity One
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Posted - 2007.09.28 03:01:00 -
[2]
Oh lord....
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Shriken Grey
Fade to Black Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.28 03:03:00 -
[3]
Nanofibers allow for a speed increase when used with afterburners or micro warp drives.
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Liang Nuren
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.09.28 03:42:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Aoki Shinya Hey guys, I've been confused since starting EVE at the use of nanofiber internal structures. It just reduces mass right? So how does it make you faster? It doesn't actually increase your speed...
It lowers your mass, so you accelerate faster and have a higher top speed.
Liang
Yarr? |
Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2007.09.28 06:13:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Aoki Shinya Hey guys, I've been confused since starting EVE at the use of nanofiber internal structures. It just reduces mass right? So how does it make you faster? It doesn't actually increase your speed...
They lower your mass. Lighter ships accelerate faster and are more agile. They also recieve a larger boost from ABs and MWDs.
Think about it, which is going to get moved more by a rocket engine (assuming all engineering concerns like things snapping and catching fire are solved), a Balsa plane or a sizable chunk of lead? Yeah, the Balsa plane is going flying while the lead barely budges. -------------------------------------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Kayna Eelai
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Posted - 2007.09.28 06:56:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Aoki Shinya Hey guys, I've been confused since starting EVE at the use of nanofiber internal structures. It just reduces mass right? So how does it make you faster? It doesn't actually increase your speed...
It lowers your mass, so you accelerate faster and have a higher top speed.
Liang
that would make sense if we were in an atmosphere or had gravity... but in space?
but then, i am no scientist, what do i know.
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Gidoran
Gallente Condottieri Industries
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Posted - 2007.09.28 07:05:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Aoki Shinya Hey guys, I've been confused since starting EVE at the use of nanofiber internal structures. It just reduces mass right? So how does it make you faster? It doesn't actually increase your speed...
It lowers your mass, so you accelerate faster and have a higher top speed.
Liang
that would make sense if we were in an atmosphere or had gravity... but in space?
but then, i am no scientist, what do i know.
Even in space you have to put energy into moving something. -------------------------------------------------- I eat pigs feet. |
Raekone
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Posted - 2007.09.28 07:14:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Raekone on 28/09/2007 07:15:55
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Aoki Shinya Hey guys, I've been confused since starting EVE at the use of nanofiber internal structures. It just reduces mass right? So how does it make you faster? It doesn't actually increase your speed...
It lowers your mass, so you accelerate faster and have a higher top speed.
Liang
that would make sense if we were in an atmosphere or had gravity... but in space?
but then, i am no scientist, what do i know.
Atmosphere adds things like wind resistance that slows you down no matter what your mass is so that's not a factor. Neither is gravity which is just a downward force acting on all things, again regardless of mass.
Stick a ferarri engine on a lorry and you won't get it up to the same speed as you would if you'd put it on a fiat punto - can't get simpler than that =)
edit Actually you WOULD get them to the same speed in space but it would take longer for the lorry. But EVE has no space, it's more like flying around in a glass of gin & tonic. Eventually you stop.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2007.09.28 08:11:00 -
[9]
No one's simply explained the actual mechanic yet.
The speed increase you gain from an AB or MWD is dependant on a calculation that is based on the module's thrust vs your mass.
For example, you'll notice that if you put a 10mn MWD on a battlecruiser, you get a lot less speed multiplier than you would if you put it on a cruiser, because battlecruisers have more mass.
Since nanofibers lower your mass, they therefore give you a speed increase when you activate your speed mod, since the mod's thrust - mass ratio is now higher.
Hope that helps :)
Scrapheap Challenge Forums |
Random Incarnate
Australia and New Zealand Eve Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.28 08:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Aoki Shinya Hey guys, I've been confused since starting EVE at the use of nanofiber internal structures. It just reduces mass right? So how does it make you faster? It doesn't actually increase your speed...
It lowers your mass, so you accelerate faster and have a higher top speed.
Liang
that would make sense if we were in an atmosphere or had gravity... but in space?
but then, i am no scientist, what do i know.
F(force, in newtons)= m(mass) x a (acceleration)
Since F and M are fixed, all is left to find is a.
a = F/m a = 1 500 000 (a 1MN AB/MWD is actually 1.5MN) / 1 500 000 000g a = 0.001ms-2 All I have to say to that figure is wtf? Oh well, we'll keep going.
a = F/m a = 1 500 000/ 1 000 000 000 a = 0.0015ms-2
I have a feeling I screwed up somewhere. That's explained in terms of physics, ms-2 is another way of writing m/s^2 or metres per second, per second. Newton's laws still apply in space.
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Imaos
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Posted - 2007.09.28 09:01:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Raekone
Actually you WOULD get them to the same speed in space but it would take longer for the lorry. But EVE has no space, it's more like flying around in a glass of gin & tonic. Eventually you stop.
Actually you wont get them to the same speed as you loose acceleration by engine design. Thrusting engines can't propel faster than they accelerate the medium they use to propel. So the constant a is only theory.
In EvE there are overdrives to boost that engine limit (as do afterburners/mwd). Whereas nanofiber help in the acceleration phase making it steeper, because you have to push less mass around.
To explain the stopping you have to consider that you can't put the engine out just operate a cruise control. So deaccelerating is also controlled by the engine and automatic. Deaccelerating under web? Maybe a safety feature of the drives as you loose power/control of the drive. (Would be funny to get a skill like heat to turn of the drives (Drive restart time reduced per skill level) so you can offline the drive to slingshot you out in a straight line when you see that you are webbed. Would give your opponent a nice shot at your tail at low traversal).
Imaos ------------------------------------------
Originally by: NoNah
My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari. |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2007.09.28 09:19:00 -
[12]
The OP might find my speed spreadsheet useful. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Deacon Ix
Ascendant Strategies Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.28 09:51:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Deacon Ix on 28/09/2007 09:52:13
Originally by: Raekone But EVE has no space, it's more like flying around in a glass of gin & tonic. Eventually you stop.
Priceless
Basicall we are talking about inertia
they more mass something has the more energy is required to change it's velocity
*edit* formatting
Originally by: Steini OFSI The most efficient way to get a dev response is to have the word beer somewhere in your thread.
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Paulo Damarr
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Posted - 2007.09.28 10:34:00 -
[14]
In space an objects thrust to mass ratio only determines the objects potential rate of maximum acceleration not the top speed. On earth top speed is limited when an objects thrust in unable to overcome the friction when this point is reached the object can go no faster.
Newtonian physics
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Xzar Fyrarr
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Posted - 2007.09.28 11:18:00 -
[15]
It tweaks the thingy mo bopper and doe sthat to the whatcha ma call it. It lowers your mass a mathingy and allows you to go fasterma huzzah. Now the interceptor ma spam can go 10x fast with the nano ma fiber. Then pewnphoon of nano land has gotten beaten to death with the nerf of me bat. In shorticans.... Nano make you faster.. as overdrives do... nano overdrive+ mwd= fast Math is boring...
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Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.09.28 11:26:00 -
[16]
On a sidenote. More mass and therefore inertia is very useful when you're trying to bump something.
Ever tried to bump a carrier off a station with an inty? It doesnt even nudge.
Now try it with a nano-machariel...
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Hyakuchan
Earth Federation Space Force
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Posted - 2007.09.28 13:16:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai that would make sense if we were in an atmosphere or had gravity... but in space?
Whelp, I guess that tells us how old you are...
F = d(mv)/dt = ma
Newton's Second Law, *****. Learn it.
Holding the amount of applied force constant, if you reduce the mass of the object the force is applied to then you increase the acceleration experienced.
-------------------------------------------------- FRIGATS Coalition FREGE-Red-IAC-Goon-AAA-Tau-Southerncross
"We gonna beat you with frigats." |
Illyria Ambri
RennTech
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Posted - 2007.09.28 13:26:00 -
[18]
Ignore the fact that its all black and stary with gas nebulae and suns and planets..
Its not space we fly through but fluid. Consider all ships to be submarines ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek
Here come the Drums!! - The Master |
Izo Azlion
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.28 14:05:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Aoki Shinya Hey guys, I've been confused since starting EVE at the use of nanofiber internal structures. It just reduces mass right? So how does it make you faster? It doesn't actually increase your speed...
If I push a fat kid, the fat kid dont go far, because hes fat and my energy gets absorbed.
If I push a skinny kid, the skinny kid will go further, because hes lighter, so it takes less energy to push him the same distance.
Basic. Physics.
I hope I put it in simple enough terms.
Izo Azlion.
---
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Borasao
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Posted - 2007.09.28 14:15:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Aoki Shinya Hey guys, I've been confused since starting EVE at the use of nanofiber internal structures. It just reduces mass right? So how does it make you faster? It doesn't actually increase your speed...
Step 1: Don't try to use actual physics/math when analyzing things in Eve. Step 2: Go back to playing the game with a happy face on.
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Caldorous
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.09.28 14:48:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Borasao
Originally by: Aoki Shinya Hey guys, I've been confused since starting EVE at the use of nanofiber internal structures. It just reduces mass right? So how does it make you faster? It doesn't actually increase your speed...
Step 1: Don't try to use actual physics/math when analyzing things in Eve. Step 2: Go back to playing the game with a happy face on.
Use maths, because 2+2 here and in eve equals to 4, but dont use physics, pls -----------------------------
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Hephaesteus
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.09.28 15:12:00 -
[22]
Can't believe no one has quoted E=MC2 prolly more apt for Eve.
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Krysta Gemme
Scottish Noob Killers
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Posted - 2007.09.28 15:21:00 -
[23]
I've always wondered why you can't just shut off your engines and allow the ship to continue moving in its direction.
If it was truly space, then unless an action of thrust or collision is put upon the ship to change the speed of the object then technically it continues to exist at that constant state forever no?
Where is the resistance coming from? Even slowing down in Eve would suggest COUNTERTHRUST...
...like someone else suggested, the laws in this game are awkward, almost like we ARE submarines instead of spaceships. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected]) "Born Amarr. Raised Matari. Separated by hatred. Together by fate." |
KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.09.28 16:26:00 -
[24]
Quote: F(force, in newtons)= m(mass) x a (acceleration)
Since F and M are fixed, all is left to find is a.
a = F/m a = 1 500 000 (a 1MN AB/MWD is actually 1.5MN) / 1 500 000 000g a = 0.001ms-2 All I have to say to that figure is wtf? Oh well, we'll keep going.
a = F/m a = 1 500 000/ 1 000 000 000 a = 0.0015ms-2
I have a feeling I screwed up somewhere. That's explained in terms of physics, ms-2 is another way of writing m/s^2 or metres per second, per second. Newton's laws still apply in space.
newtons laws have no bearing in the eve universe. They also barely apply to space. Once you get over certain speeds you have to change to relativity mechanics. Newtons laws are more of an approximation :) Boost The Eagle! |
Hyakuchan
Earth Federation Space Force
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Posted - 2007.09.28 16:57:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Hyakuchan on 28/09/2007 17:00:51 Edited by: Hyakuchan on 28/09/2007 16:58:05
Originally by: KD.Fluffy They also barely apply to space.
You're attempting to use a loaded phrase to taint the impression of the reader.
The second law does still apply in space. The practical, engineering limitations of carrying enough fuel to accelerate to a sufficient percentage of C as to require a more precise model are such that for the time being, classical physics still applies.
To date no ship built by human hands has gone so fast as to make the newtonian model predictions inaccurate by even .01%.
Taking the game numbers of M/S speeds to be true, the fastest nano rig possible in EVE is NOT an order of magnitude faster then the shuttle's own ISS altitude orbital velocity of 7.68 km/s, which is quite speedy even in EVE terms.
Now, if you would like to put forward a WORKING non-newtonian approach to traversing space at high relativistic speeds, I'm listening. If not, so back to your trolling. -------------------------------------------------- FRIGATS Coalition FREGE-Red-IAC-Goon-AAA-Tau-Southerncross
"We gonna beat you with frigats." |
Gartan Trask
Gallente Aristos Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.09.28 17:04:00 -
[26]
There's been a lot of physics, and a few math responses, but I think the actual answer to the question is:
Nanofibers alone do not increase your speed, they increase your acceleration.
When paired with a speed booster, like an AB or MWD, they also provide a bonus to the boosted top speed. - - - Please - blow up my Velator. There're more where it came from. How much does your ammo cost? |
Aoki Shinya
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Posted - 2007.09.29 17:54:00 -
[27]
wow, very detailed responses thanks everyone!
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