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Dubious Drewski	Posted - 2007.09.30 22:39:00 - [61] Originally by: Sheriff Jones It's just a general ruleset that works and prevents abuse in the MMO scene in general. We all know the rules and obey by them, those who don't, get a boot. We didn't all know this. This is my first Mmo. Will likely be my last, too. Unless some sort of wacky Eve 2 comes out.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.09.30 22:41:00 - [62] Originally by: Dubious Drewski Originally by: Sheriff Jones It's just a general ruleset that works and prevents abuse in the MMO scene in general. We all know the rules and obey by them, those who don't, get a boot. We didn't all know this. This is my first Mmo. Will likely be my last, too. Unless some sort of wacky Eve 2 comes out. It's all in the EULA/CoC...you did read it before signing right? Right?! My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Kadrush	Posted - 2007.09.30 22:43:00 - [63] Edited by: Kadrush on 30/09/2007 22:43:46 I didnt knew also...I was just thinking..."man this program is sooooooo cool, isnt it supposed to be forbidden?" What I knew...automation softwares that allow the player to leave the game running while he do something else...this ones I knew for sure that where forbidden. Other prograns that give a small hand..well...i didnt knew that this ones are also forbidden...since teamspeak are allowed...and they help the game playability as well...
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection	Posted - 2007.09.30 23:11:00 - [64] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 30/09/2007 19:06:46 Originally by: Gorefacer Anything you do on a computer is "pressing buttons". When playing chess you only have to engage your arm, 2 fingers, and very little thought to move a piece, but this doesn't impact the brains necessary to play the game well. Not sure what you mean by increasing the difficulty to fly ships. Maybe an example would help? The fact is, skill comes in at when to press the buttons, not the action of pressing the buttons themselves. Also MMOs are notorious for requiring little "actual skill". This all depends on your definition of "skill" though. Usually its the team with more members and members with more time/patience than their adversaries who win. Edit: Making interaction with the UI more repetitive/obscure/difficult may make the game "harder" but generally in a way that makes people not want to play it. I know what you mean, and it's true, making a game harder would alianate people. Though, EVE is known for it's "unfair and downright cruel" status I guess, what i really want, is more options. Shifting power between systems, between armor and weaponry, speed of ship, ability to compute (sorry for the star trek term) "evasive maneuver" patters that you can activate, linking weapons, modules to automate/freeing automation for more power...customizing UI accordingly to ship fitting. You know, more stuff to do, more tactical elements, more abilities to alter the direction of the battle then just: Captain: "repair" Crew: Ok... Captain: "Shoot" Crew: yawn Wha? Oh yeah...ok. Captain: ...repair? Crew: Sure, why not. Captain: ... Crew: The hull is breaking sir. Captain: ... Crew Captain? Captain: Oh sorry, was getting coffe, wha? snap ***le pop ah ok, I see want you mean. Might be cool if implemented well. Shifting power and evasive maneuvers could be easily done I think, but would radically change in game tactics. Not that that's a bad thing though. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.09.30 23:33:00 - [65] Originally by: Gorefacer ah ok, I see want you mean. Might be cool if implemented well. Shifting power and evasive maneuvers could be easily done I think, but would radically change in game tactics. Not that that's a bad thing though. More i think about it, more ideas pop into my head all day long. Things like, dropping life support completely and tell the crew to bail out, effectively leaving you without any use of tactical equipment(drone bays, modules etc), to boost your warp core enough to get out of a really tricky situation. Would remain as a "limping" ship too, until you paid a good deal to replace crew. And many many more My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Frug Zenithal Harvest 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.01 00:20:00 - [66] WTB Highslot Diplomacy Module? - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.10.01 00:25:00 - [67] Originally by: Frug WTB Highslot Diplomacy Module? I wish. Example: You go to 0.0 space. You go pop at the sight of any ship. End story. Rabble rabble. Now, what i'd like to see is: You go to 0.0 space. "You have entered the territory of the Pirate-y Players United! Leave now or face the consequences!" You either leave or give them the international sign of "how's your mother". Much more, spacey, thingy, in ym mind. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Kadrush	Posted - 2007.10.01 00:32:00 - [68] Stick the topic... Before I forget that I posted something useful...
Frug Zenithal Harvest 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.01 01:32:00 - [69] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Frug WTB Highslot Diplomacy Module? I wish. Example: You go to 0.0 space. You go pop at the sight of any ship. End story. Rabble rabble. Now, what i'd like to see is: You go to 0.0 space. "You have entered the territory of the Pirate-y Players United! Leave now or face the consequences!" You either leave or give them the international sign of "how's your mother". Much more, spacey, thingy, in ym mind. I would be satisfied if they just didn't shoot at you when you have high standings with them. "Hey mr gurista. Howzit going? Fight the power man! Yeah. I'm just running a mission for your boss, killin those caldari jerkwads. Hey what... don't target me. Hey stop shooting me wtf you doing?" - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Montague Zooma Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.01 06:07:00 - [70] I wish this forum had "make intelligent post" button.

Forum Warrior	Posted - 2007.10.01 06:34:00 - [71] Originally by: Contralto about G15 more complex sequences are possible, like the align for warp, engage MWD, cloak, uncloak warp to 0. but these need a lot of practise and some manual mouse input. Originally by: Sheriff Jones The G keyboard thingy isn't illegal, as it's considered a "gaming tool", but using macro hotkey programs, etc outside programs that effect direct gameplay, are illegal. You're kidding, right? How is that ANY different from a macro program if you have to basically still have to write a macro, only in the effing keyboard driver software? How hypocritical can in get, seriously? Someone care to enlighten me about the logic behind this accumulation of bovine excrement? Is CCP getting paid by Logitech by any chance?
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.10.01 07:17:00 - [72] I'm pretty sure that autohotkey falls into that dark gray area. If you're using it to bind all your turrets to a single keystroke (something easily performed by the player and requiring actual player input), it's kosher. If you're using it to mine while you're at work, not so much. The more you automate, the more likely it is to be a breach of the EULA. Mouse-related input is pretty much off-limits, but keystrokes are fine. The rationale being that moving the mouse and interacting with buttons, menus, etc. is a complex action that should require human input, but mashing eight buttons that correspond to eight different shortcuts is a simple action that is fundamentally no different from mashing one button that corresponds to eight different shortcuts.
Foppemoa Caldari Royal Swedish Capsulers Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.01 08:22:00 - [73] On my G15 i'm basically only using the G13 key. One of the bottom ones close to the left CTRL key. Step 1: I "programmed" that one to use F1-F8. Step 2: Then i moved my shield hardeners/tank to the bottom slots in the UI. Step 3: use CTRL to lock your foes. Step 4: CTRL + G13 to activate tank. Step 6: G13 to fire the zhit Step 7: Profit It very comfortable to not have to move your hand around all the time. Slacker setup ftw. On a sidenote: for people not wanting to toss out allot of cash on a G15 you can always buy the cheaper G11. Basically the same keyboard except that it doesn't have the lcd display on it.
Kadrush	Posted - 2007.10.01 10:57:00 - [74] I received the following aswer in my e-mail today... "Petition: Autohotkey third party program You can follow up on your petition on: http://support.eve-online.com/Pages/Petitions/PetitionDetails.aspx?20070930-822552-5152B04E 2007.10.01 05:32:00 GM Faolchu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hi, I don't see any problem with you using autohotkey to speed up or organise your button presses in the game. It still requires you to be at the keyboard pressing keys to active the button presses. Best Regards, GM Faolchu EVE Online Customer Support 2007.09.30 20:27:00 None ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hy, I was looking for a legal way of speed up my hotkeys in the game...on the forum people told me about the autohotkey program and got amazed on how it could help me. Dunno how to really use the program, still learning, but before I try it in game I would like to know if a program used only to set my hotkeys in the way that I like is forbidden or not. I know it is technically a third party, but I am still playing, still at the front of the pc and so on. Finnaly, well...thats it...I would like to know if the program is forbidden or if I can use it. Thanks in advance. (plz dont ban me for trying it for 3 minutes before thinking..."hey, is it illegal?" and sending you guys this petition)"
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.10.01 11:44:00 - [75] Originally by: Forum Warrior You're kidding, right? How is that ANY different from a macro program if you have to basically still have to write a macro, only in the effing keyboard driver software? How hypocritical can in get, seriously? Someone care to enlighten me about the logic behind this accumulation of bovine excrement? Is CCP getting paid by Logitech by any chance? The difference would be simple, it's CCPs call, if you don't like it points at door That's how ALL MMO work, you have no say in these matters. Anyway, a more "kind" response was earlier, the G equipment is a gaming tool, autokey is a 3rd party software. So basically you don't get any "free" advance from it(as with TS/ventrilo), but have to pay up to get that advance. Anyway, on the petition posted above, that i KNOW is a no-no(posting petitions that is), especially since fabricating petition logs isn't unheard of, so we have to wait for an official response before we can deem this "worthy" My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Kadrush	Posted - 2007.10.01 14:24:00 - [76] I just pasted the aswer from my petition here, I didn¦t change anything. I am pretty safe now that this specific program is allowed. Posted it here basicaly to help other players who said here that use it and were afraid of being banned. Use it or not, is your choice. But dont question my honesty, plz.
Susan Acid	Posted - 2007.10.01 14:39:00 - [77] Originally by: Forum Warrior You're kidding, right? How is that ANY different from a macro program if you have to basically still have to write a macro, only in the effing keyboard driver software? How hypocritical can in get, seriously? Someone care to enlighten me about the logic behind this accumulation of bovine excrement? Is CCP getting paid by Logitech by any chance? CCP have said it's legal as it's completely different to a macro programme that is used to mine all day while afk. Key presses are ok.Mouse movements are not. That's the difference.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.10.01 14:39:00 - [78] Originally by: Kadrush I just pasted the aswer from my petition here, I didn¦t change anything. I am pretty safe now that this specific program is allowed. Posted it here basicaly to help other players who said here that use it and were afraid of being banned. Use it or not, is your choice. But dont question my honesty, plz. I wasn't questioning your honesty, gees this board is somewhat "hostile oriented" I was saying that it's not ok to post petittions/gm chatlogs etc, simply because they are too easy to modify to "show proof". This is why it's not ok to post, and it means basically nothing, even if i could trust you to say the 100% truth. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Kadrush	Posted - 2007.10.01 17:36:00 - [79] You have a point, my apologies... But if you really want a proff, I can take a screenshoot of my mail box with the e-mail if you want.
Larg Kellein Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.10.01 18:38:00 - [80] Originally by: Kadrush You have a point, my apologies... But if you really want a proff, I can take a screenshoot of my mail box with the e-mail if you want. Wouldn't do that, since communication between you and the GM is private:-) Having said that, I read the response you got, and the important part is that you are only automating keystrokes that you would perform manually in normal gameplay anyway. Which is why setting up mining scrips and so on would be a free ticket to Bansville, population you, since you can't bind that using ingame tools anyway. Originally by: Roy Batty68 My software has wronged me!!! And it's immediately "sorry". Well, ok then. I suppose I'm not so upset at my software if it appologizes.

Dubious Drewski	Posted - 2007.10.01 19:07:00 - [81] What a fascinating subject. I agree, in terms of legality, this half-automation is very "grey-area". Despite how fun I find coding and scripting, I'd better not touch this one. I think I'll use this AutoHotKey to make Windows fun to use instead. Wee!
EL TITAN Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.01 19:11:00 - [82] this thread has gone weird ;x -------------------------------------------- Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected])
Burkmat Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.10.02 08:56:00 - [83] Originally by: Splagada train your wife or kids to press the buttons just need to shout FIRE ZE MISSILEZ and they press works like magic Originally by: Neon Ghost http://www.autohotkey.com Found some funky software awhile ago called "Dragon NaturallySpeaking", so add that + autohotkey and you've got "FIRE Z+ MISSILES" without having to feed the wife and kids :D
ry ry StateCorp The State	Posted - 2007.10.02 09:02:00 - [84] if you try to use a program to run this macro, you're breaking the UELA. if you use a keyboard to run the macro you aren't. the moral of this story? macro miners should be using gaming keyboards, and using a software macro to activate the keyboard macros. the EULA remains intact.
Kadrush	Posted - 2007.10.02 10:04:00 - [85] Edited by: Kadrush on 02/10/2007 10:05:40 Edited by: Kadrush on 02/10/2007 10:04:47 Well, so far, I got the ok to use the software. Of course, it is the opinion of one GM, which legaly speak in the name of CCP when aswering petitions. CCP can still ban me (simply because they have the power to do it) if they see me using autohotkey (I didnt had time to use it yet), but I have the e-mail to say "hey, you guys allowed me" and since we got no official response from any gm¦s, moderators, and dev¦s in this topic. I stay with my aswer. Just in case, I recommend t everyone who wants to use the program as well to petition asking and explaining why it should be allowed; from that we got two consequences. -After so many requests they will probably make an official statement about the matter. -Maybe they change the hotkey system to make not necessary to use prograns like autohotkey.


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