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Xaen
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.10.03 20:37:00 -
[1]
If even salvage thieves themselves acknowledge that invading someone's mission and salvaging their wrecks is stealing, why doesn't it flag them?
----------- Support fixing the EVE UI |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.03 20:43:00 -
[2]
No they don't, most of them argue it isn't stealing due to game mechanics. CCP doesn't believe it is stealing either.
In case you have missed this quote:
Quote:
If we end up having to chose between the salvagers right to salvage whatever he finds and the mission runners right to salvage his own loot without competition and getting rights to pwn empire salvagers, we'd probably go for the former.
You can read the thread HERE
Simply, Salvaging is a mini-profession, it is not a mission runner's entitlement program. You don't "own" the wreck and everything is working exactly as CCP intended.
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
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Xaen
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.10.03 21:03:00 -
[3]
Most salvagers in-game admit that it's stealing. It's only on the forums that they try to hide behind lies.
CCP has changed their minds before, I think they'll eventually see the light. Though if the amount of time it's taken to see any GUI improvements is any indication, it may be decades.
If missions weren't meant to be isolated from outside interference, why are they in deadspace?
All this trouble started when missions suddenly started being easily scannable. It's a fairly recent development I hear.
If they would just make missions near impossible to scan out again everybody would be happy again. Except for the griefing thieves of course. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.10.03 21:14:00 -
[4]
Yes, a quote from a random player not only proves your point, but also entails indisputably that missions need to be little single-player instances. CCP get on it, HYAH! * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.03 21:19:00 -
[5]
Just because those that do it think it's equivalent to "stealing" doesn't mean it is. Heck, I usually scream in local "who wants to loot/salvage my L4 mission" (because I almost never do anymore), and still nobody wants to. _
Caldari N.V.T.F. is recruiting... |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.10.03 21:30:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Akita T Just because those that do it think it's equivalent to "stealing" doesn't mean it is. Heck, I usually scream in local "who wants to loot/salvage my L4 mission" (because I almost never do anymore), and still nobody wants to.
And really you would accept the offer?
I have tried to give away the bookmarks to a gravimetric site that was to far from my home base to be convenient to mine, offering them free of charge in a system full of miners and no one would take the risk of picking them from my can, even after I left the system. 2 hours later, when I returned passed again in the system it was still there.
Lofty and company have trained us too well, no offer of free loot will be accepted, as it is assumed it is a trap of some kind.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.03 21:40:00 -
[7]
Like it would be impossible do dock and do a direct trade with the bookmark... _
Caldari N.V.T.F. is recruiting... |
Winters Chill
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.10.03 21:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Akita T Just because those that do it think it's equivalent to "stealing" doesn't mean it is. Heck, I usually scream in local "who wants to loot/salvage my L4 mission" (because I almost never do anymore), and still nobody wants to.
And really you would accept the offer?
I have tried to give away the bookmarks to a gravimetric site that was to far from my home base to be convenient to mine, offering them free of charge in a system full of miners and no one would take the risk of picking them from my can, even after I left the system. 2 hours later, when I returned passed again in the system it was still there.
Lofty and company have trained us too well, no offer of free loot will be accepted, as it is assumed it is a trap of some kind.
You can leave bookmarks on contract or trade, thats probably why they thought it was a trick because taking it would flag them.
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.03 21:47:00 -
[9]
bad cypher, ill slap him for ya!
Paradox V2.0 is recruiting! |
Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2007.10.03 21:54:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Xaen Most salvagers in-game admit that it's stealing. It's only on the forums that they try to hide behind lies.
Then it sounds like the proper solution is for these salvage thieves to stop admiting that to you.
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Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp.
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Posted - 2007.10.03 22:09:00 -
[11]
Why would you trust the words of a thief to begin with? . . . oh noes! Logical Paradox! _______________ Pwett CEO and Founder [QTC]QUANT Corp.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.10.03 22:12:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Pwett Why would you trust the words of a thief to begin with? . . . oh noes! Logical Paradox!
Thread winner. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
syphurous
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.10.03 23:42:00 -
[13]
I've taken a few bookmarks from people after they have completed their missions, they said can, I said station, and we both docked. Only annoying thing is you cant tractor the salvage so you tend to only go for the larger wrecks first. If they've left loot you want, tag the cans ( gang yourself ) and grab them all quickly and dock till the aggro timer is over.
If I find wrecks and I feel like savlaving them, I do so. I imagine if I was probing and found your wrecks I'd salvage them too.
I can, there for I will. It is how the mechanics have been setup.
The only change should be taking players corp off the wrecks and replacing it with the rats corp. Being able to give lootinf rights wuld be nice so that you could tractor wrecks you did not create. ___
Too Many Anchored Cans |
Fransico Lesante
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Posted - 2007.10.04 01:55:00 -
[14]
Alright, so I see all these referances to people scanning out wrecks nad I have still not figured out how to do it.. I (a proffessional miner/salver) scan a system for ships, when I find one in a mish wish someone still in it, I drop a BM and leave moving on to the next one. after I get 5-6 sites I then start at the first BM and work my way though, if the wrecks are still mine, I take them. Simple enough.
One point to all the nay sayers - go to a mission system and do a scan for wrecks... its INSANE. THOUSANDS OF THEM are littering systems not being salvaged... Shame I cant hunt for them like I can a ship, at least I havent figured out how... ot to mention the plague of abandoned cans everywhere... some that are years old.. left by corps/alliances/pilots that dont even exist anymore (One of mine from an old deleted toon is still flying in Teon for instance..
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try
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Posted - 2007.10.04 08:33:00 -
[15]
Salvaging profession needs a bit of love. Make wrecks scanable by probes, please. Its a profession, so it needs the tools.
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Xaen
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.10.04 18:56:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Xaen on 04/10/2007 18:57:20
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Salvaging profession needs a bit of love. Make wrecks scanable by probes, please. Its a profession, so it needs the tools.
Better yet create a trustworthy way for people to sell guaranteed bookmarks to salvage spots. This would serve not only to enhance the so-called mini-profession, but also separate the griefers from the honest salvagers.
I don't have a problem with people that ask permission or buy my wrecks first, but those people aren't deliberately griefing. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI |
Guillame Herschel
Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.10.04 23:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Xaen Most salvagers in-game admit that it's stealing.
No problem. I'll send in my salvage alt to your mish and he won't call it stealing, he will call it claiming, because that's what it is. -- Guile can always trump hardware -- |
Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try
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Posted - 2007.10.05 07:13:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Xaen Edited by: Xaen on 04/10/2007 18:57:20
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Salvaging profession needs a bit of love. Make wrecks scanable by probes, please. Its a profession, so it needs the tools.
Better yet create a trustworthy way for people to sell guaranteed bookmarks to salvage spots. This would serve not only to enhance the so-called mini-profession, but also separate the griefers from the honest salvagers.
I don't have a problem with people that ask permission or buy my wrecks first, but those people aren't deliberately griefing.
Trust is a risk you have to take in EvE. If you want to save a salvager some time and probes, by all means sell the BM's to them. But they will have to risk the possibility of getting scammed by the runner (or alleged runner) But it should be possible for salvagers to scan the wreck that are left behind and warp to them. They should be even more easy to scan down then the ones in deadspace pockets. Then the salvagers have their tool to salvage instead of only their alleged griefing tactic.
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Sendraks
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.05 10:40:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Xaen I don't have a problem with people that ask permission or buy my wrecks first, but those people aren't deliberately griefing.
Coming into a mission deadspace and salvaging wrecks isn't griefing. You might not like it, but it isn't griefing anymore than someone coming into your belt in 0.0 and popping the officer spawn you're fighting.
End.
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Harudan
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Posted - 2007.10.05 11:12:00 -
[20]
I will steal anything and everything that's not bolted down unless the owner's present. Ok, I'm gonna get trapped and wasted by a Stealth-kiddie sooner or later but tbh the risk makes it more fun doesn't it?
Certainly if you leave something unsecured in public space you honestly, honestly can't expect it still to be there when you get back, do you?
In a game where 30M Skill-point people in Billion-Isk ships can freely waste 1.5M sp Noobs in shuttles there's not a lot of weight in words like honour or justice, really.
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Scel Eratus
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Posted - 2007.10.05 14:48:00 -
[21]
Quote:
If we end up having to chose between the salvagers right to salvage whatever he finds and the mission runners right to salvage his own loot without competition and getting rights to pwn empire salvagers, we'd probably go for the former.
This here is why I would never want salvaging changed. Yes, I see salvaging other people's mission wrecks to be an annoying side effect. However, flagging all wrecks would completely eliminate salvaging as a profession. Deadspace complexes and belts would become cluttered with wrecks again, with salvagers unwilling to touch them for fear of getting ganked by someone who had no intention of salvaging them in the first place. |
realbadman
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Posted - 2007.10.05 15:35:00 -
[22]
hi, i'm a griefer
i'd like to cast my vote for salvage flagging. the melted consoles and alloyed bars are ok, but what i really want is the gist fitted raven.
please ccp, bring in salvage flagging. i want lots of mission fitted dummies to risk their gist ravens over salvage rights.
on another note, please ccp, let us scan for wrecks. that would make it so much easier to find mission fitted dummies who are willing to risk their ship over 500k of rig parts or loot.
ccp is looking out for the not so bright. y'all got it so good the way things are, i can't believe people are actually still *****ing.
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pandymen
Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2007.10.05 16:59:00 -
[23]
Didn't I post exactly the same thing in another thread just like this? Just like ore thieves, are you really going to be in a position to do anything about ppl in your pocket? You are just going to aggro them, get a counter, and give them the opportunity to come back in a pvp ship to pwn your face.
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Savva Maak
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Posted - 2007.10.05 20:42:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Xaen If even salvage thieves themselves acknowledge that invading someone's mission and salvaging their wrecks is stealing, why doesn't it flag them?
First of all - one person being a bastard in your local chat does not constitute what I affectionately call the Scavenger Community. I'm sure there are plenty of idiots who deliberately get their meals from the fresh kills of mission runners, but there are plenty of people like me who simply surf belts or play around in 1/10 and 2/10 complexes to get their meals.
Not to say I don't scavenge from wrecks which others created, I just see no problem with it. Obviously if they are pulling the wrecks to them with tractor beams, or they are telling me to back off, I will. However if wrecks are unattended for even a few minutes, I have no qualms about going to work on them. Neither would a vulture.
I'm sorry but there are mean-spirited people in every profession of eve, I think you will just have to cancel your subscription to eve, or stop making threads to complain when you've been thoroughly rebutted in another thread over and over again.
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Dr Grot
Gallente Warrior Eclipse
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Posted - 2007.10.05 23:47:00 -
[25]
Taking loot and salvaging wrecks is technically theft. YOU, the mission runner/ganker are stealing the wreck/loot from the npc/player you killed.
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Savva Maak
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Posted - 2007.10.06 00:03:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dr Grot Taking loot and salvaging wrecks is technically theft. YOU, the mission runner/ganker are stealing the wreck/loot from the npc/player you killed.
Taking someone else's loot is theft, pulling burnt circuit boards off of a broken wreck which will vanish within a period of time is not. Especially if whoever destroyed the ship to begin with isn't going to do anything with it.
Technically - I'm rescuing items from the certain destruction that awaits them when a wreck vanishes. Technically.
I also would point out that no matter how much anyone says otherwise - Salvaging is a profession, and I will continue to feast on wrecks until I CCP changes the system.
If you don't want me to salvage your wreck - salvage it before I do, if you're too f_cking lazy to learn the skills and toss a salvager on your ship - sad day for you.
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Vandalias
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Posted - 2007.10.06 03:55:00 -
[27]
Sarcasm 4tw ^^
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