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More human-like NPCs?

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Rawr Cristina Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.07 00:14:00 - [1] Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 07/10/2007 00:14:04 lets face it, the current NPCs are rather stupid. they set a distance , dont do a lot of damage to you unless there's lots of them, don't warp out, don't warp scramble/ web you (unless frigate sized), never adapt to anything you do... I know it might be complicated, but I would LOVE to see some extremely-hard NPCs that mimic player behaviour as best they can, in ships to match. Imagine fighting an NPC Blasterthron that MWDs to you, deals up to 1,000 DPS, deploys drones, webs and scrambles you when in range and warps off when it's close to death, and tank until it ran out of cap. You could have NPC gangs too, like a remote-rep circle that could only easily be broken by ECM, etc. It would be a LOT more challenging and fun than what we have atm and would also get many PvErs on the same track as PvPers, so they may have a better clue how to defend themselves if they ever decided to go up against a real player Obviously many would be extremely-high risk, compared to current missions (especially Solo) and would require a small Gang on many, but maybe it could be intergrated into Level 5s or COSMOS or something? anything to make PvE fun (I know this has prob been suggested many times, but I can't find any recent threads on it and didn't want to necro, so any thoughts?) -----
ninjaholic Gallente Burn the Jolly Roger Phoenix Rising Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.07 00:33:00 - [2] Not bad, but why not include this (or make exclusive to) in storyline missions, and the battle arena, if it gets implimented ^^ /signed
La Jefature	Posted - 2007.10.07 00:42:00 - [3] Nice idea :) Current NPC battles are quite boring and predictible. An easy implementation for this (without affecting the AI much) is just to have NPCs spawn with random gear. Facing a bship with a shield repper, armor repper, dampner, scrambler, ECM and tracking upgrades could provide an interesting battle. Anything to make the game more fun and challenging, I'm in.
Rawr Cristina Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.07 00:50:00 - [4] Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 07/10/2007 00:51:14 Originally by: La Jefature Nice idea :) Current NPC battles are quite boring and predictible. An easy implementation for this (without affecting the AI much) is just to have NPCs spawn with random gear. Facing a bship with a shield repper, armor repper, dampner, scrambler, ECM and tracking upgrades could provide an interesting battle. Anything to make the game more fun and challenging, I'm in. It would make it slightly more interesting due to how unpredictable it would be, but it would detract from immersion both RP and PvP-wise since fitting missile launchers and a shield tank on an Apoc for instance is just not something any sane person would do. It WOULD be a lot easier to implement though, and that's always a plus At least CCP could make Faction and Officer spawns uber-hard like this, people should have to WORK for their 10bil Estamel's Invul rather than just be lucky and possibly die in the process. -----
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2007.10.07 00:58:00 - [5] No drones on NPC ships, please. I don't think I could take the lag. I'd love to see more challenging NPCs, though, and a lot more of them with webs/scrams. But then again, I'd also like them to attempt to warp out at structure unless they're scrambled. I just want PVE to be as interesting and challenging as PVP. =\
Rawr Cristina Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.07 01:04:00 - [6] Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 07/10/2007 01:04:33 Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad No drones on NPC ships, please. I don't think I could take the lag. Thing is, because they would be MUCH harder NPCs, there would also be a LOT less of them, so they could field drones without them lagging you to death. A mission with only 3 ships in for instance could be more difficult than The Blockade but ten times less laggy -----
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2007.10.07 01:09:00 - [7] Edited by: Karyuudo Tydraad on 07/10/2007 01:09:29 Originally by: Rawr Cristina Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 07/10/2007 01:04:33 Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad No drones on NPC ships, please. I don't think I could take the lag. Thing is, because they would be MUCH harder NPCs, there would also be a LOT less of them, so they could field drones without them lagging you to death. A mission with only 3 ships in for instance could be more difficult than The Blockade but ten times less laggy Dramatically less profitable, too. Bounties would need to be adjusted. Loot and salvage as well.
ninjaholic Gallente Burn the Jolly Roger Phoenix Rising Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.07 01:10:00 - [8] Edited by: ninjaholic on 07/10/2007 01:10:59 Originally by: Rawr Cristina Thing is, because they would be MUCH harder NPCs, there would also be a LOT less of them, so they could field drones without them lagging you to death. A mission with only 3 ships in for instance could be more difficult than The Blockade but ten times less laggy I was just about to say that, but then read your post ... Agreed. I like it. The stronger the NPC, the fewer needed. All that seemed to be done to level 5 missions was higher resistances for NPC's. No expanded AI, not really higher DPS. Just took longer to do the same thing as a level 4. Your idea would create tough missions, requiring creativity, and add to the PvE player's experience, as a lot has been focused on improving the PvP side of Eve Online lately.
Rawr Cristina Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.07 01:14:00 - [9] Originally by: ninjaholic Edited by: ninjaholic on 07/10/2007 01:10:59 Originally by: Rawr Cristina Thing is, because they would be MUCH harder NPCs, there would also be a LOT less of them, so they could field drones without them lagging you to death. A mission with only 3 ships in for instance could be more difficult than The Blockade but ten times less laggy I was just about to say that, but then read your post ... Agreed. I like it. The stronger the NPC, the fewer needed. All that seemed to be done to level 5 missions was higher resistances for NPC's. No expanded AI, not really higher DPS. Just took longer to do the same thing as a level 4. Your idea would create tough missions, requiring creativity, and add to the PvE player's experience, as a lot has been focused on improving the PvP side of Eve Online lately. Most of EVE's player base are PvEers, but I feel many if not most of them WOULD like to get to grips with PvP but are too afraid to jump the gap.. uhh Ravine to the other side. Player-mimicing NPCs would sort-of be a bridge over that ravine, no? -----
ninjaholic Gallente Burn the Jolly Roger Phoenix Rising Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.07 01:19:00 - [10] Originally by: Rawr Cristina ... Player-mimicing NPCs would sort-of be a bridge over that ravine, no? Indeed ^^ Cool idea
Addison Caine	Posted - 2007.10.07 01:22:00 - [11] Sounds awesome.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.10.07 01:24:00 - [12] Everybody who has ever watched a SciFi movie knows, if you meddle with NPC AI to make them more intelligent, they'll inevitably become sentient and kill us all. Well, the lucky ones anyway. The rest of us would end up in forced breeding programs with robotic sodomizers. So since your idea would end up resulting in the elimination and/or buttsexing of the entire human race, I'd suggest CCP not move forward on this one, and instead concentrate on important things like fixing Jita and introducing Faction T3 Heavy Assault Motherships. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Rawr Cristina Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.07 01:30:00 - [13] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Everybody who has ever watched a SciFi movie knows, if you meddle with NPC AI to make them more intelligent, they'll inevitably become sentient and kill us all. Well, the lucky ones anyway. The rest of us would end up in forced breeding programs with robotic sodomizers. So since your idea would end up resulting in the elimination and/or buttsexing of the entire human race, I'd suggest CCP not move forward on this one, and instead concentrate on important things like fixing Jita and introducing Faction T3 Heavy Assault Motherships. borrrrring. besides, CCP are always bragging about how much staff they have, i'm sure they're able to do more than ONE thing at a time (ugh,2:30am, i'm off for tonight :P) -----
mallina Caldari Sybrite Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.07 12:18:00 - [14] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske and instead concentrate on important things like fixing Jita and introducing Faction T3 Heavy Assault Motherships. I honestly don't care that much about new ships , we already have a tonne and it dosen't really add anything to the game we haven't already seen, but new gameplay (especially gameplay which crosses that PvE/PvP gap) is DEFINATELY something I would like to see oh, the NPCs should smack in local too ---
Dave PSI Haendlergilde S.E.R.A	Posted - 2007.10.07 13:26:00 - [15] Edited by: Dave PSI on 07/10/2007 13:26:57 CCP already tried to increase the strenght/AI of NPCs (like changing focused fire etc.). The result was always many dead mission runners and endless whining on the forum, till CCP made them as easy as they where before. T R U S T shop: http://www.evetrust.com // Haendlergilde [HAE]
Rawr Cristina Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.07 15:28:00 - [16] Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 07/10/2007 15:28:18 Originally by: Dave PSI Edited by: Dave PSI on 07/10/2007 13:26:57 CCP already tried to increase the strenght/AI of NPCs (like changing focused fire etc.). The result was always many dead mission runners and endless whining on the forum, till CCP made them as easy as they where before. I'm not saying as a replacement to current missions/NPCs because yes, people would whine and die. I meant more an addition to say, Level 5s (because hardly anyone does the current L5s) or COSMOS missions or Officer/Faction spawns or something. I just love the idea of an NPC doing everything a human can do... even if that means Warping after you (if you go in a predictable direction) and jumping through Gates to get ya be like trying to escape the Terminator - and how does that not sound extremely cool? -----
joshmorris Ravenous Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.07 16:17:00 - [17] Find a 6/10 plex do it get to the final boss guy .. and try solo him in a Battle cruiser .... Man is he a tough mofo. But umm ... if u want a player like npc .. why dont u just find a player =) Man please change the arty sound from the pathetic but classic pew to something more like "chung chunk" I want meaty arty.
Rawr Cristina Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.07 19:02:00 - [18] Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 07/10/2007 19:03:52 Originally by: joshmorris Find a 6/10 plex do it get to the final boss guy .. and try solo him in a Battle cruiser .... Man is he a tough mofo. But umm ... if u want a player like npc .. why dont u just find a player =) Because, I want the enjoyment/adrenaline of a fight I'm unsure of winning or losing without having to wait hours on end, travelling from system to system trying to find one (and probably not in the end) Yes, the 6/10 bosses are quite deadly - but they still don't warp scramble you, web you, use any sort of ECM on you, ever run out of cap, warp off or hunt you down, do they? The mean AI should be MEAN! -----
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.10.07 19:14:00 - [19] Hey how about just making NPC combat more like a backdrop for PVP? Like how static complexes used to be.
Rawr Cristina Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.07 23:58:00 - [20] Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Hey how about just making NPC combat more like a backdrop for PVP? Like how static complexes used to be. that's the thing, it needs to both a back-drop for PvP and a step upwards from PvE. -----
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.10.08 01:07:00 - [21] the idea have been there before, most people loved it.. i still love the idea of npc's being pvp like... of cause the bounty would have to be exploited high compared to now (since one of those blasterthron would *****most ships unless they where really rdy for it, and if it had support you would have an extremely high chance of getting killed, so the bounty would have to be comparable to the risk there.. which would be bigger then almost anything else in eve, since your literally jumping right into it and letting it lock you down)
Rawr Cristina Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.08 10:29:00 - [22] Originally by: Buyerr the idea have been there before, most people loved it.. i still love the idea of npc's being pvp like... of cause the bounty would have to be exploited high compared to now (since one of those blasterthron would ****most ships unless they where really rdy for it, and if it had support you would have an extremely high chance of getting killed, so the bounty would have to be comparable to the risk there.. which would be bigger then almost anything else in eve, since your literally jumping right into it and letting it lock you down) Yup, bounties could be high but there'd need to be a mechanism to stop it being risklessly farmed*. Maybe have them warp off if you bring too many people there.. or uhh.. 'refit' to counter you -----
Ellaine TashMurkon CBC Interstellar	Posted - 2007.10.08 10:34:00 - [23] Random spawn size and composition is a good place to start :)
Helen Hunts Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc	Posted - 2007.10.08 16:33:00 - [24] Simple anough to add in a new set of missions featuring the new rats. In fact, adding the new rats might be harder than coding the missions. Agent: "We've got reports of a Serpentis pirate captain who's gotten a little too smart for our own good. He seems to prefer close ranged combat in a large ship. Take him out." This could be the Blasterthron or blaster fitted Myrmidon. Throw in a couple frigs for cover and you've got a good knock-down, drag-out fight on your hands. As for what these rats are fitting, I'd say skim through the Ships forum and grab a handful of the not-quite-uber setups and go from there. _______________________________ Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money. Any Questions?
Rawr Cristina Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.08 22:20:00 - [25] Originally by: Helen Hunts Simple anough to add in a new set of missions featuring the new rats. In fact, adding the new rats might be harder than coding the missions. Agent: "We've got reports of a Serpentis pirate captain who's gotten a little too smart for our own good. He seems to prefer close ranged combat in a large ship. Take him out." This could be the Blasterthron or blaster fitted Myrmidon. Throw in a couple frigs for cover and you've got a good knock-down, drag-out fight on your hands. As for what these rats are fitting, I'd say skim through the Ships forum and grab a handful of the not-quite-uber setups and go from there. Yup, this sounds good. I know it would probably be a MAJOR change /addition to the way NPCs behave, but isn't it about time? We've been stuck with these mindless rats since 2003 -----

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