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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Vel Kyri
Vanilla Gorillas
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 03:52:00 -
[211] - Quote
Moar Lowsec incursions |
Master OlavPancrazio
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 04:17:00 -
[212] - Quote
Vel Kyri wrote:Moar Lowsec incursions
Quoting for truth |
Amantus
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 04:18:00 -
[213] - Quote
Jehlom wrote:Mortalaria wrote:Mortvvs wrote:wallenbergaren wrote:Lowsec Incursions
We need more of them There's no reason for there to only be one at a time.
posted from my htc desire using tapatalk |
Amantus
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 04:19:00 -
[214] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Vlad Cetes wrote:Incursion distribution should be like this:
1 hi-sec 3 low-sec 3 0.0
That would fix most of the problems How? 0.0 Alliances have neither the equipment nor motivation to run large scale PvE content. Only an idiot would enter low sec in anything other than a pvp fit. PvP fits are incompatible with PvE content. Sorry but while I could see PvPing in a very expensive ship (not a great idea but I can see doing it), I'm not going to self select to be a victim in an expensive fit.
lol at your troll mate.
posted from my htc desire using tapatalk |
Snake O'Donell
Core Impulse FEARLESS.
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 04:19:00 -
[215] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Vlad Cetes wrote:Incursion distribution should be like this:
1 hi-sec 3 low-sec 3 0.0
That would fix most of the problems How? 0.0 Alliances have neither the equipment nor motivation to run large scale PvE content. Only an idiot would enter low sec in anything other than a pvp fit. PvP fits are incompatible with PvE content. Sorry but while I could see PvPing in a very expensive ship (not a great idea but I can see doing it), I'm not going to self select to be a victim in an expensive fit. You are literally ********. |
Amantus
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 04:43:00 -
[216] - Quote
such a ************************* troll mate
posted from my htc desire using tapatalk |
Neyem Praetorius
Reib Autonomous Industries
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 05:46:00 -
[217] - Quote
Whatever other changes are implemented, the possibility for third parties to disrupt farming should remain. The emergent community which is forming around incursion closing is a glorious thing. |
Andy Landen
Megaton m3 Heavy Industries
15
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 06:10:00 -
[218] - Quote
Incursions is the best thing that happened to Eve for at least 3 reasons.
1. Players gain access to smart NPC combat which requires them to unite with logis, resists, and dps.
2. Rich rewards are brought from the wormholes to the masses. Nice shiny ships are flown, and Eve sees the full range of gameplay with them.
3. The 1 server MMO power of the Eve Universe is enhanced as players from null sec, low sec, and high sec find great interest in each other.
Those reasons having been said, my feedback is that we aim our fixes of incursions to focus on those strengths.
First, access to smart NPC combat should be enhanced by escalating system site spawns as the incursion is worked. VG systems escalate to spawn Assault sites. Assault to HQ, if I am getting the order right, etc. Each system escalates 1 level at a time, so that after 20% influence has been lifted, a scout system spawns VG sites. 40% influence lifted yields assault sites there.
Second, rewards can really get aspects of incursions going which have had difficulty. More ISK rewards for low sec and null sec incursions. To keep outside fleets from crashing the party, the MOM site bookmark should only be given to the top 30 players with the most concord lp from that incursion. Only allow the FC of the winning fleet to take from the MOM wreck.
Third, connecting so many players is great, so let's keep it going. Also, how about an icon to indicate whether a fleet mate has aggression so logis don't have to worry about if RR makes them a WT too.
And seriously, the fleet tagging system needs to have a simple shortcut to tag each ship. Include auto-tagging, where ships are tagged according to player specified rules about ship type and distance for either pve or pvp.
For the added bonus to making incursions more like pvp, how about allowing incursions NPCs to warp off field when going down and then back onto the field after getting off-field RR. Players would then have to fit warp disruptors too. |
Glomondon
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.01.25 09:15:00 -
[219] - Quote
1. remove all 0.0 whiners 2. problem solved |
Kel'Tarus
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2012.01.25 10:47:00 -
[220] - Quote
Totally saw this coming, good thing I trained Tengu as a backup. Off I go to nullsec, my alliance will take good care of me.
P.S. Read my sig Why fix it if it ain't broken |
|
Serge SC
The Singing FC
11
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Posted - 2012.01.25 10:59:00 -
[221] - Quote
carmelos53 wrote:
HQ rebalancing True Creations Research Center needs to be removed or changed due to the simply fact you are REQUIRED to have a code breaker to complete the site. Now it's fine if you get an ADVANTAGE by using a codebreak but pilots should never be forced to completely reship to complete a site of the same type ***different HQs**
I'm intrigued by this, if you don't mind.
I have never ran a TCRC with the help of a codebreaker, and I've FC'd myself at least 100 of them - if there is a way to use a codebreaker in a TCRC I'd like to know, as it could drastically easen the site. I know only the OTA and the Kundalini could use one, but it is not actually required. However the TCRC does require a delicate fleet composition, as tractor beams are needed as well as some ships with afterburners to move faster towards the CONCORD MTAC factory.
Thanks for the feedback,
Serge Shield FC (for too many channels >.<) |
Krod Mand00n
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 12:07:00 -
[222] - Quote
As someone who is unable to use RL cash to pay for my gametime I find incursions are the best way to pay for my two accounts, one for pvp and one to make isk in incursions. If hi-sec incursions are nerfed CCP and the people who I buy replacement ships and mods from will lose the income from my 2 accounts and that will also mean that someone who buys the plexes that I buy will no longer have part of the income that I and 'possibly' many others provide that are in a similar position to myself.
I refuse to do as "some " people do and use a bot as this is against the EULA and do not want to see my accounts banned, and I am not rich enough to have access to a tech moon, so for me incursions are the only way that I can a. enjoy pvp and b. meet and keep in touch with some of the people I have met along the way.
All I ask is that CCP think carefully before hi-sec incursions are nerfed. If anything increase the rewards for low and null sec incursions. If people from more wealthy alliances want to ruin my gameplay then I call for them to subsidise my accounts, that will be two plexes a month thank you.
|
Allko
Zero Tax services
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 12:18:00 -
[223] - Quote
:) in EVE "fix"mean "nerf" soooo...
A simple solution could be: increase lvl4 payout by 50% and move/nerf incursions sites wherever you like ... everyone wins |
ShipToaster
115
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 12:36:00 -
[224] - Quote
To the people who are quitting because you cant afford to plex multiple accounts if vanguards get nerfed I say **** off you lazy greedy cheap bastards.
Nerf Vg's by 20% and buff others by at least 20%. Make raw ISK from all sites down to 60% and LP up to 40% to trickle some ISK into the economy instead of flooding it.
Level 5 missions were moved from high for being too profitable and too easy and we see the same thing with incursions. Raises the possibility of moving level 5 missions back to high.
Make CONCORD loyalty point stores need insignias, possibly non player created objects as well for some items (perhaps rethink the no salvage and have a few items drop in sites), to force the same market PvP that many other PvE users need to do. Or remove all insignias from all loyalty point stores.
No payouts at all until incursion mothership is killed. Reduce the amounts paid depending on time taken to kill the mothership by five percent each hour starting two hours after it is sighted. have a one percent chance each hour that the mom is not killed for sansha to take full control of a system and give no payout. Have a big countdown timer so players can see how long it has been since mothership has been killable.
Incursions are not invasions. Sansha should not sit there for a week so no one week long incursions. Force people to move about more.
Have more random events related to incursions. Varied waves, roving sansha support fleets that need to be probed down and killed or they can warp into a site, and anything else to break up the monotony of incursions. Even have seven or eight incursions spawn in high at the same time to stretch resources as long as sansha have a chance of winning the incursions somehow.
Dont have the crap sansha withdrawing, let sansha take full control of a constellation if they are not defeated quick enough and have any adjacent constellations with incursions have slightly more ships and be slightly harder to defeat. Every day sansha control a constellation make it a little harder to retake it.
Let sansha attack POS's to remove abandoned or undefended POS's.
Dont let vanguards lower influence penalties.
A lot of people are making claims to a community and the use of voice comms as if it is something really important in incursions. It is not. incursions are boring and the only reason you do them is for the massive amount of ISK you get for no real effort or risk and you dont give a flying **** about any community or comms as long as the ISK is flowing.
The comms for an ota might go "Align down gate", "Logis L up", "Go go go", "deltole is primary", "deltole", last deltole", "drones in and align". That is it again and again. All that changes is the target order for other sites and saying to the ore dropper to go.
The community? Only used to find fleets, people have nothing in common and the only reason there is any interaction is to find fleets. Some interaction is better than none but dont kid yourself in thinking there is a community here. Incursion math? part 1 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=678400#post678400 part 2 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=698871#post698871 |
TheGunslinger42
Bite me inc. Narwhals Ate My Duck
14
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 13:33:00 -
[225] - Quote
ShipToaster wrote:To the people who are quitting because you cant afford to plex multiple accounts if vanguards get nerfed I say **** off you lazy greedy cheap bastards.
As well as insulting them, and requesting their stuff (you can't claim to quit unless you give away every asset and isk you have), I'd like to also point out that they share a lot of the blame for plex prices being so high. As the amount of isk injected increases, people are willing to spend a little more for their plex, which means people can charge a little more... pile this on for a year and we get the stupid plex prices we have now. If they fix vanguards plex prices will eventually go down. Then you can unquit (since you didnt REALLY quit, as evidenced by me not having all your isk/assets) and go back to bearing.
Everybody wins. Especially those of us who fuel our ships with bear tears. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite me inc. Narwhals Ate My Duck
14
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 13:44:00 -
[226] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote:Incursions is the best thing that happened to Eve for at least 3 reasons.
1. Players gain access to smart NPC combat which requires them to unite with logis, resists, and dps.
2. Rich rewards are brought from the wormholes to the masses. Nice shiny ships are flown, and Eve sees the full range of gameplay with them.
3. The 1 server MMO power of the Eve Universe is enhanced as players from null sec, low sec, and high sec find great interest in each other.
2) is actually a reason why incursions as they currently stand are utterly awful. There's, y'know, risk inside wormholes. That's why the rewards are high. Taking that level of reward but stripping it of all the risk and effort needed and dumping it in hisec for the masses is a bad thing, it isn't balanced and skews (even more so) the distribution of players through the different types of areas and gameplay.
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Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 13:51:00 -
[227] - Quote
I support the viewpoint of Serge SC's post on page five of this board. He has plenty of experience of how Incursions work as opposed to some of the pilots from nul-sec who are causing so much aggro atm. |
Tsubutai
The Tuskers
53
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 14:43:00 -
[228] - Quote
wallenbergaren wrote:Lowsec Incursions
We need more of them There's no reason for there to only be one at a time. Lowsec is small and incursions are a pita for day to day roaming. No thanks, one is plenty. |
Eleena Frost
Blue Origin
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 15:37:00 -
[229] - Quote
CCP, since I started in 2006 you have always stated that eve is a harsh world where the more risk you take the more rewards you can reap. The stupid amount of isk and LP incursions give have broken this paradigm. It's pretty telling that people who live in well settled 0.0 regions still go to empire and run incursions for isk. At this point the only people who have reason to be in 0.0 are full time pvp'rs, bots, and masochists.
Incursions pay more to the individual pilot than any other activity (barring trading) in hisec, lowsec, or 0.0 without any pvp risk and very little pve risk. Before sanctums were nerfed a pilot was at least required to risk a carrier/mom/shiny ship to make 60-100m/hr plus. This also required sov and an ihub with upgrades and always ran the risk of being killed by another player.
Now you can do this in complete safely in hisec. Anyone who complains of risk is full of crap. If there were any significant risk involved you wouldn't see fleets full of faction fitted machs, nightmares, and t3s running these sites day in and day out.
My view is nerf incursions to be a fun hisec alternative to L4 mission with no more payout than that. Then you keep the fun content, people still get paid decently, and the whole risk/reward balance stays the same as the past. |
Cee Dublyew
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 16:04:00 -
[230] - Quote
Eleena Frost wrote:My view is nerf incursions to be a fun hisec alternative to L4 mission with no more payout than that. Then you keep the fun content, people still get paid decently, and the whole risk/reward balance stays the same as the past.
L4 missions vary way to much, and are far less risky to provide the kind of rewards you're suggesting. The NPC's in L4's are far less tanked than that of an Incursion Sansha. There is a much greater risk of loosing your ship, despite the fact that it takes 2 logi's and 7/8 other non-shiny ships for DPS to kill off the site. I understand that many people want Incursions Nerfed as far as payout, but, to bring it to L4 levels is not smart when it comes to the risk involved in killing the Incursion specific NPC's. Your suggestion is way to generalized to be taken seriously IMO. |
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Eleena Frost
Blue Origin
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 16:19:00 -
[231] - Quote
Cee Dublyew wrote:Eleena Frost wrote:My view is nerf incursions to be a fun hisec alternative to L4 mission with no more payout than that. Then you keep the fun content, people still get paid decently, and the whole risk/reward balance stays the same as the past. L4 missions vary way to much, and are far less risky to provide the kind of rewards you're suggesting. The NPC's in L4's are far less tanked than that of an Incursion Sansha. There is a much greater risk of loosing your ship, despite the fact that it takes 2 logi's and 7/8 other non-shiny ships for DPS to kill off the site. I understand that many people want Incursions Nerfed as far as payout, but, to bring it to L4 levels is not smart when it comes to the risk involved in killing the Incursion specific NPC's. Your suggestion is way to generalized to be taken seriously IMO.
Just as L4 missions used to have some actual risk for the average pilot before the HP buff and rigs were added to the game. Sounds fine to me.
l4 rewards will allow the average pilot to make decent isk and LP with some risk but more socialization. It'll also get rid of the incentive for shiny fleets since the rewards will no longer justify the risk.
|
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
405
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 17:37:00 -
[232] - Quote
Far too much tears and stupidity in this thread from people who seem to hate the fact people are rolling isk in highsec, deal with it
If Incursions end up paying as much as L4's no one will do Incursions, what's the reward in taking the time and effort to form up a fleet when you could spend that time making isk solo?
Nerfing VG pay so it's less than an L4 for the average fleet will result in less people doing Vanguards. Nerfing the Blitz without affecting the pay will keep them open to casual low DPS pug fleets while shiny fleets will look to Assault/HQ's for better income (which need reworking for isk/hr to be more attractive)
Incursions shouldn't however, be farmed for weeks on end. Put up a 4 day timer before the Mothership can spawn, if Nation influence is at zero as soon as day 4 hits, Mom is up. The mothership then has a 72 hour timer before it despawns, thus giving most incursions a week to be cleared.
Asking for the ships to have drops and salvage will kill off pug fleets, they are not standard rats. Also more random drops is going to hit the mineral market harder, and miners have it bad enough as it is.
That's the short version of it, I'll come up with a more thorough responce for sites types later. Yes Incursions need to be fixed, the focus needs to move away from Vanguards and endless farming needs to be dealt with. |
Ronald Ray Gun
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 17:44:00 -
[233] - Quote
Krod Mand00n wrote:As someone who is unable to use RL cash to pay for my gametime I find incursions are the best way to pay for my two accounts, one for pvp and one to make isk in incursions. If hi-sec incursions are nerfed CCP and the people who I buy replacement ships and mods from will lose the income from my 2 accounts and that will also mean that someone who buys the plexes that I buy will no longer have part of the income that I and 'possibly' many others provide that are in a similar position to myself.
Don't fix incursuions because you want to be able to run 2 accounts for free. Riiight.
|
Akasha Prime
The Voidstalker Heresy Gryphon League
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 19:18:00 -
[234] - Quote
I feel that something that should be re-iterated is that EVE is, at it's core, a player vs. player experience. This is even expressed in the indirect competition of mining, industry, and research; and the direct competition of the market and PvP combat.
EVE has always appeared to maintain a balance between risk and reward, but I also feel that it is worth noting that there is a difference between difficulty and risk. It should be noted that the implication has always been that the risk is due to threat of other players involvement. NPC's represent difficulty. Other players represent risk. No carebear has ever sat on a gate leading to low-sec, afraid to jump, because the NPC's at the gravimetric site he found might be too strong for him.
In the current EVE implementation, the reward : difficulty : risk ratio scales inversely proportional to the security status of the system in most cases. Still there are some exceptions, such as Class 1 wormholes where the reward and diffulty are low to moderate yet the risk is extreme because you risk losing your ship, your pod, and (if your clone is not sufficiently updated) weeks off your training queue.
Conversely, high-sec incursions allow for extreme rewards, high difficulty, and almost zero risk.
Incursion Bears have managed to find a way to band together to overcome a difficult task and make a profit. Good for them. I don't run incursions, but I do feel that the fact that my null-sec alliance periodically has a day where we all pack up and jump clone to high-sec because "that's where the ISK is" indicates a problem with the current system.
My suggestion, then is to introduce some actual risk into incursions.
Option 1: Treat Incursion constellations as low-sec in terms of concord response. Fleets will learn to watch their D-Scanner and pick up some PvP experience along the way.
AND / OR
Option 2: Lower the security status by 0.1 for each time period (24 hours?) the Incursion is in effect. When the security status reaches 0.0, Sansha has "taken" a constellation and the Incursion spreads to a nearby constellation. Once the incursion has been cleared, the security status will return at a rate of +0.1 per day until the systems return to their natural security status.
This will encourage people to clear the entire Incursion faster, and will introduce enough risk (not difficulty) to justify the rewards.
AND / OR
Option 3: Allow corporations and alliances (but not individual players) to join Sansha as a Faction Warfare participant in which they may participate in open PvP in Incursion zones. Allow us to set up / take bunkers (or whatever) to reinforce the incursion in an area. Incursion bears could take their LP to concord; we could take our LP to Sansha. This could be expanded by having hidden Sansha agents that must be scanned down in highsec that offer missions (that must be completed by a large group, similar to anti-incursion fleets) that could actually trigger an incursion (such as destroying a concord facility in the system). With a system like this, flesh out Incursions into a truly immersive experience for everyone. Incursions would be less mechanical, and feel *real* for everyone involved. This option allows for both PvP (to have some actual risk in Incursions) and deply immersive player-driven role-playing, as well as providing what is essentially a high-sec war mechanic that is not easily avoidable. |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
406
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 20:53:00 -
[235] - Quote
Akasha Prime wrote:I feel that something that should be re-iterated is that EVE is, at it's core, a player vs. player experience. This is even expressed in the indirect competition of mining, industry, and research; and the direct competition of the market and PvP combat.
*snip*
There is already direct competition in Incursions, all you're suggesting the same duckshoot idea that was suggested the other day, it would fail and become nothing more than an unbalanced blobfest and kill any interest in incursions.
Here's the issue, Incursion fleets are limited to fleet size otherwise they get paid pittance due to the fleet size - Isk ratio of the payout system. People looking to kill them do not have that issue, they can take as many as they like, jump in guns blazing and wipe everyone out.
Risk is the chance that you'll come out of the venture at a negative, whether it's by players or NPCs or by random luck. If put yourself in a position that you can come out of a situation at a loss, you have taken risk. Now I don't believe Incursion NPC's currently put out sufficient risk, and I'd like to see that change without them putting in ridiculous instagib style volley mechanics from the rats. That isn't challenging, rewarding, engaging or in any way good design, what I'd like to see are situations that require focus and quick player thinking and reaction, as well as a sense of unpredictability and diversity.
And yes, you can get that from NPCs, EVE AI is very simplistic. The sleeper AI was a good start but there's plenty of room for improvement. |
gfldex
295
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 21:12:00 -
[236] - Quote
Sadly Miilla can't post here himself. As surprising as it might sound, his spelling is no the reason.
Miilla > i bet once the bar on CONTROL of incurions heads towards 0% effective the rewards will stop paying out or go low Miilla > so thatll slow up farming lol
More gameplay, less waitplay! Down with AFK-Cloaking! Down with AFK-Alliances! Down with AFK-Mining!
In contrast to general believe, interfaces to computer systems are not meant to be distractive. |
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
J0urneys End Journeys End Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 21:42:00 -
[237] - Quote
Is there a way to get the date back onto my Neocom? I really miss it. My husband misses it too, because I stay logged in and completely forget what day it is. I can't use the calendar to do it because it requires two extra clicks to open and close. To me, that's a click festival, and I've already been there a bunch of times. Actually, I am concerned too about developers going off on their own and deciding what's best for Eve. We need team players, and this change looks like a lone developer just took the easy way out. Again, my apologies if there is a way and I have neglected to find it. I just want it back. Thanks, Sub OS Name Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit **** Motherboard EVGA__132-YW-E180-FTW 790i Digital PWM **** 2 x EVGA 8800 GTX in 2-way SLI Resolution 2560 x 1440 x 59 hertz-á**** Corsair Dominator GT 8GB Kit 2X4GB 2000MHZ DDR3 **** Processor Intel(R) Core2 Extreme CPU X9650 @ 3.00GHz |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 22:01:00 -
[238] - Quote
Joe SMASH wrote:Reduce payouts across the board. Bring vanguard sites down to level 4 mission (ISK/hr) payouts (per member of fleet).
Anyone else who complains about people killing the Mom are ignorant to the way incursions were supposed to be run. Farming vanguards w/o giving thought to killing the mom to extend the incursion as long as possible is nothing short of an exploit that should be fixed.
Depending on your activity and the time incursions are up they are already on the level of level 4 missions (ISK/hr). Sometines you waste so much time with travel and fleet search they that you need several hours of constant fleet action to make up for this. Sometimes you end up instantly in a good fleet, end up winning all contested sites and you do way more than in l4s. And sometimes you just move your ship(s) over to the incursion and it gone before you actually did make decent protif.
While I agree that vgs are dull and are to good in comparsion to other sites, I see a problem in decreasing vg income without reducing some of the factors mentioned above. Longer incursions, and better progression for forming fleets to step from scouts up to vanguards to assaults and hq would be very nice. As well downgrading should be as easy as possible imo. Fluid game play and such, sitting in chat and looking for fleet is not challenging, its not fun, it simply adds nothing to the game. |
Brom MkLeith
Epsilon Inc STORM.
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 23:11:00 -
[239] - Quote
vampire knight wrote:hey all o/ im going to make this short and sweet. ive read alot of good ideas in here and hope for the best for everyone, i would like to add that during incursions i would like to have sansha's at every gate, planet, station, moon and belt with each haveing a bounty and abit of LP.. it would make things alittle harder for everyone and give those solo pilots waiting/looking for fleets something todo.. make the sansha's smarter and more unpredictable. The idea is to keep people logged in, i dont know how many times ive logged off and did something else because i was bored and didnt feel like waiting for something to open up.
Excellent! Random Sansha Rat spawns all over the place in incursion constellations FTW. People in the incursion area who are still trying to live life as usual should not be able to while the incursion is active.
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Brom MkLeith
Epsilon Inc STORM.
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 23:22:00 -
[240] - Quote
CCP, never take something away from high-sec and put it exclusively in null sec. I agree with making in more profitable in null/low sec but never remove it entirely unless it is removed from the whole game. If the null-dwellers want more people out there with them then maybe they should work on better recruiting or maybe a tourism outreach program. |
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