Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Nicho Void
Gallente Hyper-Nova
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 15:46:00 -
[1]
**Disclaimer: I understand that alts are a pervasive part of this game and a major part of CCPÆs revenue stream. I donÆt really expect alts to be removed; I would simply like to point out the problems they cause and offer a possible solution.
Problem: Risk vs. Reward is unbalanced in Eve. Cause: Alternate Accounts.
There are number of situation in Eve where a second account mitigates the risk of an individualÆs actions.
- Mining
With a PvP alt, a miner is able to provide his own security and artificially increasing his ability to mine in lower security, more valuable mineral space. Risk is decreased while Reward is increased.
- Gang/Fleet Warfare
With a recon alt, a gang or fleet is able to gather intelligence on enemy movements without sacrificing any of its fighting strength. Risk is decreased while Reward is increased.
- Capital Ship Movement
With a cyno alt, a capital ship pilot can move at will without worrying about cyno pilot movements being detected, traps being set, or trust issues. Risk isà.you get the idea.
- Suicide Ganking
With a throw away alt, a pilot is able to suicide gank a multibillion isk target and scoop the loot with no possibility of security status hit or pilot/corporation/alliance retaliation. The player can then sell the character. Wash, rinse, and repeat.
Note: IÆm not arguing against the validity of suicide ganking as a form of game play, IÆm arguing against a main player reaping the rewards of a suicide alt. If you want to gank a freighter in high sec, fine, but your mainÆs sec status should take the hit.
- Character Specialization
New players who choose to specialize in a ôsecondaryö profession will find that there is no demand for cynos, interdictors, miners, traders, haulers, etc. If a player needs the services of one of these professions, an alt is created.
IÆm sure many of you can think of other ways that alts minimize risk while maximizing reward.
Solution: Discontinue alternate accounts.
Unfortunately, this creates a number of secondary problems, but I believe those can be easily solved as well.
- What happens to the players who have alts?
Allow a one time transfer of alternate account characters to an open character slot on the main account. Perhaps increase the maximum number of character slots to five (5) if necessary (or remove the limit on characters all together?). Players with more than four (4) alts would be required to pick their four (4) most useful characters.
- What about the revenue stream?
Instead of allowing players to buy a second account, let players pay for the ability to train skills on multiple characters on the same account. Billing could be on a per character basis (say $4 per character per month) or an account basis ($12 for four per month). The current system (multiple characters, only one training) would stay, but could be upgraded at anytime, for any amount of time.
Players would still be able to pay for the ability to create multiple characters. The only difference being that playing with multiple characters at the same time would be impossible. This doesnÆt solve example #5, but the rest require simultaneous connections of the characters to accomplish.
- YouÆre a moron! IÆll quit if my alts are removed.
Honestly, I think Eve would be a better place without alts, so before you quit IÆd prefer we have a civilized discussion first.
Thank you for your time.
---------------
|
Missy Black
The Collective
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 16:11:00 -
[2]
Be honest with your self.
A. CCP loses Income from account. (regardless of who owns them.)
B. Whos to say what account is an Alt unless they come forth for some unknown reason. (which why would they theres no good reason why they should. and even if there was, if there willing to pay money now, whats stopping them in the future to ahve more accounts running. Same as u ahve said below. So many characters being ownerd by one guy, all trainaing at once.. yeah,na,thanks.
C. Only one character can be used per account. This was to prevent people training skills and selling the character. When it was never used. The other slots are kinda useless in my opinion. -Bar reasons such as market alts, spys, scouts etc. All in all there not ment to be played with as a main.
--Overall.. If people want to spend the extra money on second/third/tenth accounts / characters. Then what kinda businesses would CCP be to say; "No, we dont want your money"
All writen for the sake of the argument. Missy.
|
Nicho Void
Gallente Hyper-Nova
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 16:19:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Missy Black A. CCP loses Income from account. (regardless of who owns them.)
Yes, some income would be lost. I agree. I believe there are other, less game altering ways to generate supplemental income though.
Originally by: Missy Black B. Whos to say what account is an Alt unless they come forth for some unknown reason. (which why would they theres no good reason why they should. and even if there was, if there willing to pay money now, whats stopping them in the future to ahve more accounts running. Same as u ahve said below. So many characters being ownerd by one guy, all trainaing at once.. yeah,na,thanks.
Of course there will always be people who break the rules. That doesn't mean that the rules shouldn't be put in place. For starters, concurrent login attempts from the same IP address could be blocked.
Originally by: Missy Black C. Only one character can be used per account. This was to prevent people training skills and selling the character. When it was never used. The other slots are kinda useless in my opinion. -Bar reasons such as market alts, spys, scouts etc. All in all there not ment to be played with as a main.
I agree. A main is a main is a main. However, I don't see how this justifies the creating of alternate accounts. People need multiple mains?
Originally by: Missy Black If people want to spend the extra money on second/third/tenth accounts / characters. Then what kinda businesses would CCP be to say; "No, we dont want your money"
One that is more concerned about the quality of their game than the change in their pocket? ---------------
|
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 16:29:00 -
[4]
Don't be lazy. Creeate your own 'alt' with timecode and join the real players. You can buy it for isk
Does it take effort to do so ? Yes if does. But as you pointed out in your post rewards are there if you put in some effort. Just make sure that your 'alt' earns you enough to profit after you figure in timecode cost in isk.
|
Dominator9987
Minmatar The Shambling Horde
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 16:34:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Dominator9987 on 10/10/2007 16:36:18
Quote: Yes, some income would be lost. I agree. I believe there are other, less game altering ways to generate supplemental income though.
Heh, ya the world doesn't run on love man, you might be a hippy tho...
*edit.
Didn't I see you complaining about how good motherships were on the anti-mothership thread (i forget which one so i state the mothership thread) If that was you then we have confirmantion. I gotta research this down, Im pretty sure you just try and condemn players who have an edge over you.
|
Nicho Void
Gallente Hyper-Nova
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 16:44:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Nicho Void on 10/10/2007 16:45:24
Originally by: Carniflex Don't be lazy. Creeate your own 'alt' with timecode and join the real players. You can buy it for isk
Does it take effort to do so ? Yes if does. But as you pointed out in your post rewards are there if you put in some effort. Just make sure that your 'alt' earns you enough to profit after you figure in timecode cost in isk.
It's not a matter of lacking money or isk to get an alt myself, it's the principle of the matter.
Originally by: Dominator9987 Heh, ya the world doesn't run on love man, you might be a hippy tho...
Insightful, thank you for the excellent point.
Originally by: Dominator9987 Didn't I see you complaining about how good motherships were on the anti-mothership thread (i forget which one so i state the mothership thread) If that was you then we have confirmantion. I gotta research this down, Im pretty sure you just try and condemn players who have an edge over you.
I'm condemning no one. The fact the you feel so defensive tells me I hit your style of game play right on the head. ---------------
|
Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari Rising Knights SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 17:26:00 -
[7]
fundamental flaw: Risk vs Reward stays the same. If my alt is mining and my main is guarding him (usually the opposite but whatever) then now I have one miner and one character doing a negligible amount of mining. So my hulk is making X isk. My tank/guard is making (.2)X isk. But now I am Risking X for the hulk AND my tank. so about 150M for the hulk and about 50M for the tank. That includes fittings. so I get 1.2X for reward but 1.3X risk.
so yeah...
Risk vs Reward is unbalanced I agree but it has little or nothing to do with alternate accounts. It has to do with the disparity between PvP and PvE setups. A pirate (or bored person) can scan down a low-sec mission runner and be relatively sure that he has a mission setup. He warps in with a PvP setup and the missioner is comparatively easy pickings. The missioner will already have NPC agro so there's no risk to the PvP guy. The misisoner's tank will already be hard at work and usually will not be an omni tank so with a little planning, a PvPer can have a setup that the missioner is probably not set up for. I warp in on your explosive tanked raven flying my blasterthron and I have a VERY small chance of getting killed while you have a very high chance. And if I want, I can then clean up part of your mission reaping THOSE rewards as well.
You want to whine about imbalance? fix the PvP/PvE problem. Alts aren't the problem. ------ Pain is weakness leaving the body.
There is no love in fear |
Drethon
Gallente Selinir Industries
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 17:34:00 -
[8]
I have alternate accounts because I want to role-play different characters. They may work together sometimes but often they work completely separately. I have my main Gallente "righteous" character, my Minmitar out for revenge and my Caldari cutthroat trader. Do you want to block my ability to play them together for various role-playing purposes?
"I may not believe in what you believe in but I will die to protect your right to believe." |
Nicho Void
Gallente Hyper-Nova
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 17:41:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Nicho Void on 10/10/2007 17:44:11
Originally by: Yamichi Wiggin fundamental flaw: Risk vs Reward stays the same. If my alt is mining and my main is guarding him (usually the opposite but whatever) then now I have one miner and one character doing a negligible amount of mining. So my hulk is making X isk. My tank/guard is making (.2)X isk. But now I am Risking X for the hulk AND my tank. so about 150M for the hulk and about 50M for the tank. That includes fittings. so I get 1.2X for reward but 1.3X risk.
I disagree. The fact that you put more isk on the line does not make it more risky. The guard account lowers your risk by decreasing the chances of you being jumped by a solo pirate. All you do is increase the amount you're risking, not the risk itself. You may argue that it's a semantic difference, but I think it's completely different.
Look at it this way. If you fund 27 alternate accounts, each capable of flying a battleship and use them as guards, you obviously increase the amount of isk being risked. The risk itself, however, is minimal.
Originally by: Yamichi Wiggin You want to whine about imbalance? fix the PvP/PvE problem.
Maybe that is the problem, though I have a hard time seeing how PvP/PvE disparity effects the Risk vs. Reward balance in any situation other than the one you detailed.
EDIT:
Originally by: Drethon I have alternate accounts because I want to role-play different characters. They may work together sometimes but often they work completely separately. I have my main Gallente "righteous" character, my Minmitar out for revenge and my Caldari cutthroat trader. Do you want to block my ability to play them together for various role-playing purposes?
I'm not a role-player in Eve, so I hadn't thought of that. A good point. ---------------
|
Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari Rising Knights SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 17:49:00 -
[10]
I realize it's more than semantics but solo mining without support in low-sec is nothing short of stupid anyway so I wasn't counting that situation.
The situation I described is a HUGE situation as far as the risk/reward imbalance is concerned. There are thousands of missioners and thousands of pirates.
Let's look at the rest of your initial post: Mining- already covered it.
Gang/Fleet- I can see a small problem here as the character you're ignoring will probably be the battle-ready character who will probably be hanging out with a bunch of other combat ships and is thus safer.
Cap ship movement- Trust issues are the only ones avoided here. Just because your cyno guy is your alt doesn't mean that he can't be shot, trapped, spied upon... whatever. He's still a character in a ship. And if you have trust issues with your corp/alliance mates, then risk/reward isn't your biggest problem.
Suicide Ganking- ------ Pain is weakness leaving the body.
There is no love in fear |
|
Keithos
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 17:50:00 -
[11]
And what happens when you start banning accounts from multiple people households?
How do you know that the accounts are from say sibliings? Parent and child? Or husband and wife?
That doesn't even begin to address the amount of effort you would have to go to for ip blockers and yes there are legitimate reasons for ip blocking (first and foremost I make a hacker's job that much more difficult).
The techinical pain alone is prohibitive, not to mention all the veterans you're going to **** off.
Multi accounts have been around since launch, if was such a huge probelm it would have beeen addressed, if you think only having 1 account gives you some moral high ground that's fine but don't expect anything to change.
|
Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari Rising Knights SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 17:55:00 -
[12]
grrrrrr. wrong button
Suicide Ganking- again- The alt is still a character. If you skill him up enough to successfully suicide gank somebody you've put real time into him. It's not like a 2-week old noob can actually kill a multi-billion isk asset unless the owner is astonishingly careless. In which case they deserve what they got.
Character Spec- That's just ludicrous. Who do you play with? Yes having an alt can make things easier but having somebody else do it for you is even easier.
Summary- I'm thinking you have lousy eve friends and you should look into that. I don't have trust issues with my corp. I don't disregard my corp mates' abilities because I can do the same task on my alt or on my main. That's a waste of resources and doesn't lead to good corporation building. Your members need to feel as if they are appreciated and needed or they'll go somewhere that does give them what they need and want. Basically- I don't think you're balancing out the risk vs reward from the other side of the keyboard. yes my main has much greater benefits with much less risk. The person flying three ships at once risks a great deal because he can lose three ships at once. Or fail three missions or whatever else he does. ------ Pain is weakness leaving the body.
There is no love in fear |
Nicho Void
Gallente Hyper-Nova
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 18:13:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Nicho Void on 10/10/2007 18:18:06
Originally by: Yamichi Wiggin Gang/Fleet- I can see a small problem here as the character you're ignoring will probably be the battle-ready character who will probably be hanging out with a bunch of other combat ships and is thus safer.
I don't follow. A recon alt doesn't effect risk/reward because the main is already with a battle group, and thus, is already safe? What if the enemy is in a gang of 100, and you only have 90. Would a recon make things less risky then? What if you only have 50 in your gang? 10? 4? At what point does the information a recon alt provides lower the risk of your battle character and the gang as a whole?
Originally by: Yamichi Wiggin Cap ship movement- Trust issues are the only ones avoided here. Just because your cyno guy is your alt doesn't mean that he can't be shot, trapped, spied upon... whatever. He's still a character in a ship. And if you have trust issues with your corp/alliance mates, then risk/reward isn't your biggest problem.
Except in the instance of an alt, all you have to do is place him at your cyno point and log. Anytime you ever need to jump a load of supplies to or from empire, log your alt on for a couple minutes. Tell me that doesn't reduce risk.
Suicide Ganking-
Originally by: Yamichi Wiggin Suicide Ganking- again- The alt is still a character. If you skill him up enough to successfully suicide gank somebody you've put real time into him. It's not like a 2-week old noob can actually kill a multi-billion isk asset unless the owner is astonishingly careless. In which case they deserve what they got.
Risk/Reward balance here? There is none. I'm not arguing that alts don't take time and skill.
Originally by: Yamichi Wiggin Character Spec- That's just ludicrous. Who do you play with? Yes having an alt can make things easier but having somebody else do it for you is even easier.
You think? I'd love to take a poll of the forums and find out how many people pay other players to do their inventing, production, and mining for them. I bet it's a staggeringly low number. Why pay someone and reduce your margins when you can create an alt that will do it?
Originally by: Yamichi Wiggin Summary- I'm thinking you have lousy eve friends and you should look into that. Etc. etc. etc.
Why does this have to become personal? I happen to like my corp mates very much, as they are almost always willing to help with anything I need. Many of them have alts themselves, so I harbor no ill will towards people who use them. I'm simply pointing out the downfalls of having them in game.
EDIT:
Originally by: Keithos And what happens when you start banning accounts from multiple people households?
Not banning, blocking the attempts, but yeah.
Originally by: Keithos The techinical pain alone is prohibitive, not to mention all the veterans you're going to **** off.
Agreed. It would be a pain in the ass, which is why I don't ever see it happening. Doesn't that make the situation any less ****ty though?
Originally by: Keithos Multi accounts have been around since launch, if was such a huge probelm it would have beeen addressed, if you think only having 1 account gives you some moral high ground that's fine but don't expect anything to change.
The "it's been around forever so it must be fine" argument is hilarious. The statement "Soon&trade" comes to mind. ---------------
|
Ris Dnalor
Minmatar Union Enterprises
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 18:15:00 -
[14]
I wholeheartedly disagree with the op. If ppl have the money and time to use 5 accounts, super. that's more money that can go to support & improve the game I love to play. And it certainly does not detract from my game play if that person is using 5 accounts.
- Ris -- Talking in Circles is more dizzying than walking in them...
Tralala |
Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari Rising Knights SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 18:19:00 -
[15]
I didn't intend it to be a personal attack. What I'm saying is that in our corp we have people who are specced at research. Others at mining. etc... As a corp, we work together on a lot of things and the outcome is that we all get friggin rich. Or in my case, we get blown up a lot but can afford it.
Either way. This game has always been (for me) more about the relationships with my corp members than it has about wallet balance or killboard stats. My alt doesn't change that.
Also- I was agreeing that alts imbalance things in the gang war thing. ------ Pain is weakness leaving the body.
There is no love in fear |
Nicho Void
Gallente Hyper-Nova
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 18:19:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Nicho Void on 10/10/2007 18:22:32
Originally by: Ris Dnalor I wholeheartedly disagree with the op. If ppl have the money and time to use 5 accounts, super. that's more money that can go to support & improve the game I love to play. And it certainly does not detract from my game play if that person is using 5 accounts.
- Ris
Fair enough. I disagree, but can't fault your logic.
Originally by: Yamichi Wiggin I didn't intend it to be a personal attack. What I'm saying is that in our corp we have people who are specced at research. Others at mining. etc... As a corp, we work together on a lot of things and the outcome is that we all get friggin rich. Or in my case, we get blown up a lot but can afford it.
Either way. This game has always been (for me) more about the relationships with my corp members than it has about wallet balance or killboard stats. My alt doesn't change that.
I'd like to think that is the normal experience in Eve, but I doubt it. As I've said many times, I think the mantra in Eve is, "why pay someone to do it, when you can have an alt do it yourself."
Originally by: Yamichi Wiggin Also- I was agreeing that alts imbalance things in the gang war thing.
Ha. Ok, makes a lot more sense now. ---------------
|
Washell Olivaw
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 19:48:00 -
[17]
First, recycling characters to avoid consequences of certain gameplay is a bannable offense and there are several methods to enforce this. So the throw away suicide gank alt is only a minor issue.
Second, with the current tritanium prices risk vs reward in mining is screwed up anyway.
Last, with GTC's and ETC's, billing can't be used to limit alt accounts. IP-blocking isn't an option either due to the great amount of siblings, roommates, husband/wife, etc players out there. If you ban those from playing at the same time, they'll both/all quit.
Quote: Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
|
Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 20:31:00 -
[18]
I completely agree, and out of principle do not use alts myself, but I fear so many people have become reliant on them that you won't gain much support for this idea. Particularly since it would negatively impact CCP's income.
Also, you forgot the pirate hauler alts. The entire sec status consequence is circumvented, making lowsec trading fairly worthless compared to what it should be. It's just another issue that makes lowsec completely undesirable and discourages trade through it.
|
Nicho Void
Gallente Hyper-Nova
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 21:00:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Nicho Void on 10/10/2007 21:01:41
Originally by: Washell Olivaw First, recycling characters to avoid consequences of certain gameplay is a bannable offense and there are several methods to enforce this. So the throw away suicide gank alt is only a minor issue.
I'm not talking about throwing it away, I'm talking about selling it. But you're right, it's a minor issue.
Originally by: Washell Olivaw Second, with the current tritanium prices risk vs reward in mining is screwed up anyway.
That's player driven and a part of market PvP. This doesn't mean that alts wouldn't skew the balance if it were balanced correctly in the first place.
Originally by: Washell Olivaw Last, with GTC's and ETC's, billing can't be used to limit alt accounts. IP-blocking isn't an option either due to the great amount of siblings, roommates, husband/wife, etc players out there. If you ban those from playing at the same time, they'll both/all quit.
True. However, other games find a way to enforce single accounts to subscribers, so there must be a decent solution. ---------------
|
Ellaine TashMurkon
CBC Interstellar
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 21:05:00 -
[20]
Good or bad idea (I'd say bad), can't be done anyway. You cannot identify what account is secondary and what not. If there was an EULA entry denying people right to have second acount, people would just break it - use proxy, pay with your friends credit card or with isk. This whay, honest players who want to follow the EULA would suffer (they electronically sign it afterall), while "criminals" in EULA sense (like macro miners) would happily prosper and enjoy they lowered competition.
|
|
Aramendel
Amarr North Face Force
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 21:12:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Aramendel on 10/10/2007 21:13:01
Originally by: Nicho Void Solution: Discontinue alternate accounts.
Problem: Isk farmers cause problems for eves industry. Solution: Ban all isk farmers.
It's so easy, isn't it? ...not. Noone has precognition.
By which means would you "Discontinue alternate accounts"? Or, better, identify them.
Payment method like credit card number or bank account? Gametime cards totally circumvent that. Regisitered email? Right. (I hope I do not have to explain why that is ineffective ) IP? Easy to counter by anonymizers. And will also cause problems for valid singleaccount users which use a shared IP and internet cafes. By reporting people ingame? How can you proof someone is an alt and not just a friend?
In short: it doesn't matter if your arguments are valid or not, your suggestions are utterly pointless because there is no way to translate them into game reality, even if everyone would agree with you. YOu might as well suggest how awesome it would be if we would replace the current mouse-keyboard interface with a telepathic one.
|
Washell Olivaw
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 21:17:00 -
[22]
Actually, I shouldn't have even bothered to type all that.
CCP currently has an offer, get a 2nd account and you get 6 months on that account for only 49.95.
Since CCP makes such an offer it's common sense to assume they have no interest at all in limiting players to a single account.
Quote: Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
|
Plekto
Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 21:27:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Plekto on 10/10/2007 21:30:07 - Increase number of characters to 5. - Allow two players at a time to train skills. - One login a a time, period. EDIT: CCP seems to want us to buy a 2nd account, so add this one, too: - 2nd accounts ($49.95/6 mos) only with credit card based accounts in Europe and North America.
- No transfer of items or isk to or from trial accounts. Can't even open the contract tab, can't put items on the market, either. When you decide to upgrade to a new character, you restart from day one again. Nothing carries over.
This is a massive loophole that macroers and the like exploit. Trial should be trial. Period. As it is, you can log in, make a good mining character right off - maybe train one skill for a day or two, make 50 million or so mining, and send it off to a "friend"(boss at the worker/gaming farm) This basically turns free gaming time into real money.
- Removal of time cards. This is the #1 problem, actually, in EVE - selling and buying of time cards. ISK sellers are able to effectively pay for free alt accounts this way because there's no ID verification on them. Only people who CCP knows who they are should be able to play EVE. Macrominers and such will also go away with this change. It just won't be profitable. Oh - and groups in China and elsewhere won't be able to function either. (One guy buys timecards for the entire group of workers in the farm with isk - then they all hide behind temp and timecard accounts.
I'd rather have a completely closed and secure EVE without macroers alts and the like - or people buying a capitol ship every week - at the expense of a few players any day.
|
Nicho Void
Gallente Hyper-Nova
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 21:35:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Nicho Void on 10/10/2007 21:36:37
Originally by: Aramendel Problem: Isk farmers cause problems for eves industry. Solution: Ban all isk farmers.
I have a prearranged counter to your prearranged argument: Isk farmers aren't the problem, isk buyers are.
Originally by: Aramendel Payment method like credit card number or bank account? Gametime cards totally circumvent that.
Agreed. Let's remove them. If it meant no more alts, I'd be for it.
Originally by: Aramendel IP? Easy to counter by anonymizers. And will also cause problems for valid singleaccount users which use a shared IP and internet cafes.
Agreed again. IP isn't the way to go.
Originally by: Aramendel In short: it doesn't matter if your arguments are valid or not, your suggestions are utterly pointless because there is no way to translate them into game reality, even if everyone would agree with you. YOu might as well suggest how awesome it would be if we would replace the current mouse-keyboard interface with a telepathic one.
So even if I point out that alts are slowly but surely destroying the game and get all the players, devs, and financial backers to agree...nothing can be done? I think you'd be surprised.
EDIT: Originally by: Washell Olivaw Actually, I shouldn't have even bothered to type all that.
CCP currently has an offer, get a 2nd account and you get 6 months on that account for only 49.95.
Since CCP makes such an offer it's common sense to assume they have no interest at all in limiting players to a single account.
Of course they don't, because as someone pointed out earlier, no company in their right mind is going to stop that kind of revenue stream. My suggestion is to find a different revenue stream that doesn't harm the game as much. Charging to allow concurrent training of multiple characters on a single account is one such example. ---------------
|
Aramendel
Amarr North Face Force
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 21:39:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Aramendel on 10/10/2007 21:41:29
Originally by: Nicho Void
Originally by: Aramendel Problem: Isk farmers cause problems for eves industry. Solution: Ban all isk farmers.
I have a prearranged counter to your prearranged argument: Isk farmers aren't the problem, isk buyers are.
And the problem is not identical there? You are utterly missing the point here. YOu are suggesting a simplistic solution which does not work.
Saying "let there be light" only works when you have godlike powers. If you haven't you better know how exactly you want to make light or you are just wasting time.
Quote: Agreed. Let's remove them. If it meant no more alts, I'd be for it.
Bank account from a relative would still be a very viable option. Also nevermidn that "simply" removing GTCs is not really realistic.
Quote: So even if I point out that alts are slowly but surely destroying the game and get all the players, devs, and financial backers to agree...nothing can be done? I think you'd be surprised.
See the isk farmer/buyer problem. There exists no magic wand which to point to find someone "guilty".
|
Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari Rising Knights SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 21:40:00 -
[26]
I think part of the problem is that they don't seem to be destroying the game. I love my alt like he's my own little duckling. Alts are all over the place. And aside from node-crashing blobs, I haven't really seen the game collapse.
So let's start at the beginning again. How are they destroying the game? By breaking the delicate balance of risk vs reward. But that's a myth anyway. It's like job security or civil rights. It looks great on paper. Everybody wants them. They don't exist and where they do exist they are not what you think they are. Besides- CCPs response with the new buddy system/power of 2 or whatever is obvious. "Tired of your opponents having two accounts? Get a second one yourself and wtfpwn BOTH of them!" unbreaks the game and keeps the coffers full. ------ Pain is weakness leaving the body.
There is no love in fear |
ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 21:43:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Nicho Void
Originally by: Aramendel IP? Easy to counter by anonymizers. And will also cause problems for valid singleaccount users which use a shared IP and internet cafes.
Agreed again. IP isn't the way to go.
It isnt easy to counter an I.P. ban with an anonymizer for an aplication like eve-online. Anonymizers work through HTTP which isnt used for eve-online and indeed any other online game. Anonymizers are for web surfing nothing more.
www.eve-players.com |
Aramendel
Amarr North Face Force
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 21:49:00 -
[28]
Incorrect.
For example.
|
Nicho Void
Gallente Hyper-Nova
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 21:49:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Yamichi Wiggin I think part of the problem is that they don't seem to be destroying the game. I love my alt like he's my own little duckling. Alts are all over the place. And aside from node-crashing blobs, I haven't really seen the game collapse.
So let's start at the beginning again. How are they destroying the game? By breaking the delicate balance of risk vs reward. But that's a myth anyway. It's like job security or civil rights. It looks great on paper. Everybody wants them. They don't exist and where they do exist they are not what you think they are.
Let's take it to the extreme, just for an example. A Goon or Bob (whomever you hate) member hits the RL lotto and wins an obscene amount of cash. He then decides to fund an alt for every member of his alliance. Your argument says that people would laugh about it and say, "So what? There's no balance in this game anyway."
I think this forum would crash so fast from the backlash, you wouldn't have time to type "HAX!"
If you agree with this point, why doesn't the same hold true on a more realistic scale?
Originally by: Yamichi Wiggin Besides- CCPs response with the new buddy system/power of 2 or whatever is obvious. "Tired of your opponents having two accounts? Get a second one yourself and wtfpwn BOTH of them!" unbreaks the game and keeps the coffers full.
Yes, CCP currently endorses alts. I completely understand that. If the community could be shown that alts are bad, and CCP became convinced of that as well (because whines = nerfs, lets be honest) I think CCP would change their stance.
---------------
|
vinnymcg
eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 21:55:00 -
[30]
This is a silly point for two reason's
1) Having an alt doesn't have as much of an impact as you think it does, you are right about the high sec gank but CCP need only to tell concord to kill people looting cans that are not theres and the problem is solved (Need more depth but im not going into it)
2) It would be impossible for CCP to track the alts, the only identifier on the net is your IP with changes every day unless you have an extremely expensive connection. If they wanted to they could invest thousands of hours ringing up ISP's all over the world for every connection to the eve server to try and find just one person using an alt. Waste of time!
You probably already know this but CCP fully back alts hence the "Power of 2" program, the chance of your poorly informed post is going to change anything is infinitesimal.
"""Btw yes I do have an ALT and it is used to manufacture ships, research BPO's, Invent T2 BPC's and manage a corporation made up completely of alts""" Remotely Delete Jump clones tread COMPSOC http://myeve.eve-on |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |