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SilentHunter13
Underworld Protection Agency
The Crimson Federation
   |
Posted - 2007.10.10 19:31:00 -
[1]
TRAPs û Crimson War. The war of endurance
This is the Crimson account of the war and the facts seen by Crimson and not TRAPs, while some of what TRAPs say is correct it is not 100% factually correct of the situation and other issues happened during the war, this will be a timeline and long post about the war step by step. Bear with me. For those who think this post is long by all means donÆt read it but donÆt comment about it being long.
At 23:51GMT on the 25/08/2007 EMP joined the Crimson Alliance bringing with it a war with 2 corporations and eventually another.
The Really Awesome Players and The Royal Crimson Lancers declared war on EMP (2 weeks before Crimson-TRAPs war) which was a industrial corporation with miners and mission runners after a incident whereby a EMP member took a capacitor booster from a wreck of a Caldari Navy Raven shortly after it was destroyed by a TRAPS Fleet. After a few weeks of successful destruction of EMP by the RCL and TRAPs they decided to involve REPO or MUCC in the issue by using their friendship to get MUCC to destroy the EMP POS in a 0.4 system near Slays and Stacmon (first war front). EMP and Crimson have had talks pre war of joining and then the talks continued during the war. EMP were taken in by Crimson (for no cost) claiming that pirates shouldnÆt bully this industrial corp into paying them a large amount of money.
The war at first did not go down well, the sudden emergence of Crimson to the war meant that TRAPs and RCL had to up their war fees, this however seemed not to bother them. EMP were still taking very heavy losses and were trying to move or recover themselves using the few Crimson fighters that we could muster to their aid being so far away from the normal Crimson HQs or homes near Amarr or Providence. TRAPs are based out of Tash-Murkon prime so then Crimson faced 2 fronts in the war. As EMP tried to gather their stuff together using the eventual medium sized fleet to aid them up in gallente space industrials down in Amarr were being attacked and also EMP members trying to retreat down to Lower Debyl were being attacked on the way. This created 2 fronts on which Crimson had to fight and a very dangerous position of their corps being forced to use the pipe from Alentene to Amarr and then to Lower debyl to relative safety.
At this point in time the Crimson alliance had high morale after coming out of their last war very much in favour and on the winning side. Crimson had 75-80% of their membership industrial and of the alliance who were online a lot of the time most were afk or not nearby to someone to help if they get attacked (due to many fronts and HQ systems and corporations able to field competent combat pilots). We took heavy losses to relatively no kills. TRAPs were the main killers infact it seemed RCL (Royal Crimson Lancers) couldnÆt care less that they were at war and rarely were seen on the battlefield and when they were they rarely came out on top.
The alliance was then in a state of confusion, two fronts meant that no one was safe, a sudden burst by the annoyed capable pvp pilots flaming people for losing a industrial ship during war was a 50-50 issue as some people were purely industrialists and needed to use those ships to play eve and others were simply not playing smart and moving a lot of things through the war zones in haulers. Later was it found that EMP had a spy from TRAPs, the spy was never found but it relates to the reason why EMP was later kicked from the alliance. That spy managed to no doubt give info to TRAPs of the whereabouts of fleet movements and anyone who was in EMP who declared they were running with a industrial ship was swiftly intercepted and killed. Arguably it was not their fault for losing a ship on many a occation.
continued -
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Analysing and Destroying your arguments since early 2007 :) Enjoy.
Yankee Alpha Romeo Romeo Romeo |
SilentHunter13
Underworld Protection Agency
The Crimson Federation
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 19:32:00 -
[2]
The higher up members of the alliance tried to salvage this situation by posting helpful tips in alliance on how to proceed during war and what to do to make sure you are not killed to those people who truly had no clue. The kill/death ratio kept rising until it became apparent that the administration should make a move to help stop the deaths. The alliance told people to use alts and other corp members to scout for them and to make sure they got home safe and not to undock in a industrial unless it was truly needed, for instance a person (who shall remain unnamed) in EMP was planning on taking a freighter through Amarr coming from Alentene and then down to Lower Debyl, this at first was greeted by heated arguments saying how it was not needed to move such a thing during war time.
ôthis is what we have alt corps for, to move things during war time, are you insane? The spy will tell TRAPs that your in a freighter and even if we do amass a large fleet to help to move it they will find a way to attack and possibly destroy youö
EMP members demanded that a 15 man fleet be assigned to defending this freighter pilot and the demand was denied by many members of the alliance and CEO under the claim ôit is not necessary to move it at this time, it is perfectly possible to wait til the end of the war before moving itö.
After 2 weeks of constant deaths and relatively no kills along with the problem of the spy in the alliance feeding intel and mails to TRAPs it was decided that the alliance could do without EMP and removed EMP from the alliance. This was to help the morale of the alliance and to make the fight a little fairer on the capable pvp pilots by decreasing the amount of possible targets for TRAPs and also removing the spy within the alliance.
- 2 Weeks -
After removing EMP the deaths were reduced but there were still many deaths and stupid moves by some alliance members for instance flying a hauler out without warp core stabilisers through a war zone in the attempt to move modules into Jita to sell which was arguably not necessary as the hauler pilot started in Amarr. After a while of losses the higher up members of the alliance sent out a mail saying anyone who is killed in a industrial ship during war time might be fined depending on the reason why it was moved. The fine was originally 5 million isk but was upped to 10 million to help stunt the movement of industrials through war zones and decrease the amount of deaths Crimson was suffering.
This was seen as a ônot caring for their membersö move by TRAPs CEO and blamed this act on the Crimson CEO. The simple matter was that we needed to find a way to stop people flying with industrials and losing them and the quickest deemed way to put that into action was to charge people for æstupid lossesÆ
REPO declare war!!! [MUCC]
REPO declare war against the Crimson Federation Alliance in aid of their good friends TRAPs and RCL. This complicated the war some, the sudden emergence of large amounts of trained pvpers into Tash-Murkon Prime and Amarr areas meant that moving was hazardous and losses were taken.
In one of the first battles with REPO, Crimson lost 2-3 ships and killed 1 REPO member and were swarmed from all sides of Amarr.
Enough is Enough Declare war!!! [EE]
Enough is Enough was a small corporation of alts from a larger corp who were displeased with the Crimson Federation Alliance for supposedly shooting a æblueÆ in the Crimson HQ system. The alts were of the [NESW] or North Eastern Swat corporation within Pandemic Legion Alliance, which was assumed because of their position in the Alliance they could not declare war on Crimson and thus made a alt corp to do so which allowed NESW pilots and NESW alts to enter and join the war against Crimson.
3 FRONTS!!!
- http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/dhall/TRAPSwar3fronts.jpg
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Analysing and Destroying your arguments since early 2007 :) Enjoy.
Yankee Alpha Romeo Romeo Romeo |
SilentHunter13
Underworld Protection Agency
The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.10 19:32:00 -
[3]
Crimson now had to fight on 3 fronts, further complicating the war and splitting the firepower and corporations.
It was decided to announce a move to Lower Debyl for the alliance to setup a perimeter and defence so that we could be organised and so we could prevent more losses.
Proposed perimeter with reasons as to why.
- http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/dhall/TRAPSdefenceLD.jpg
The move meant that people would be helped In moving down to Lower Debyl area and then the Alliance could concentrate its fire. As can be shown In the pictures we were being attacked from all sides and being split off from any corporations in gallente or amarr space.
NESW members escort EE into Thakala a 0.4 dead end system normally associated with UPAY and the Crimson federation Alliance (sylph, CVA and friends aswell) and proceed to prevent any movement of fleets in and out of Thakala to help anyone nearby. Crimson took losses from EE and NESW and previously took losses from NESW pre war.
Crimson members now felt boxed in and under attack from all sides, they felt it was not safe to undock as you could have one of 4 possible war fleets on you quickly.
- 3 Weeks -
REPO decide to move down to Lower Debyl as TRAPs find out the alliance plans to move itself down to Lower Debyl to make a perimeter. While there and on the way down REPO cause havoc and kill a few crimson members. They entered Thakala through the perimeter with relative ease. They proceeded to attack people in Thakala and surrounding systems with superior numbers or firepower. TRAPs shortly followed REPOÆs move and EE were always present.
The alliance rallied and started to shape up. Some corporations were removed from the alliance as they were either not contributing or they were getting torn through by TRAPs and combined other corporations. A lot of corporations were told to leave or left by their own by Tigerfish Torpedo to prevent losses to their corps or to retrain their members into defence against war, these corporations were told that after the war they were free to come back and most agreed it was a wise choice.
REPO retracted their war dec 3 days into the war for their own reasons. The speculation was that they retracted to be able to focus on their own problems and not the problems of TRAPs.
More losses û Note at this point in time the alliance is about 40% industrial and 60% pvp.
The sudden retraction of REPO was after the fight back of the Crimson federation on their own territory. Many battleship pilots managed to kill a few REPO and EE members in or around Thakala while taking less losses overall.
With REPO out of the picture TRAPs tried to push into Crimson territory and resume their killing with the help of EE.
- 4 Weeks -
TRAPs are pushed back slightly and EE is starting to make less kills as Crimson is reorganised and rebuilt. Pvpers were now working with firm ideas and strategy with the comfort of not having to look behind them as Thakala was a dead end thus letting the alliance focus its firepower on one part with ease.
EE started to move back and no longer attack Thakala any more in numbers with the aid of NESW.
Royal Crimson Lancers retract war dec, the reason Crimson thought was because it was not beneficial to them in any way, they werenÆt contributing and were just using money up.
This made the war count down to 2, one of which being a very small corp.
- 5 Weeks û
EE retract the war declaration, no specified reason as to why. Speculation of a ISK problem and NESW started to not interfere in Thakala.
TRAPs is now on its own, and even though it is smaller than the alliance it is still packing a huge punch and still making kills. The newly re-organised Crimson fighters managed to push TRAPs back a bit more each day with TRAPs now and again sending in raiding parties and taking a ship or two in the raid.
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Analysing and Destroying your arguments since early 2007 :) Enjoy.
Yankee Alpha Romeo Romeo Romeo |
SilentHunter13
Underworld Protection Agency
The Crimson Federation
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 19:33:00 -
[4]
By the end of this week the higher up members of the alliance and CEO of the alliance decided it would be beneficial in the future to have a higher percentage of pvpers than industrialists and many corps were kicked from the alliance leaving only but a handful (3-4).
- 25-30% of the alliance is now industrial
Some pvp corps were recruited such as Space Borderline who came into the war very quickly taking losses and giving out punishment aswell.
SPB was based in amarr and the alliance (or whats left of it) was based in Lower Debyl. The Crimson alliance saw its chance to come back and decided to push back to Amarr. By the end of this week the bulk of the fleet was active most days and roaming around Amarr and occationally Gallente space although TRAPs seemed to have moved purely down to Tash-Murkon Prime.
Less losses were taken and more kills were dealt out. The alliance morale went higher.
- 6 Weeks -
As I write this post it is coming up to the end of almost 6 weeks of war. TRAPs are starting to take losses, in some cases more than Crimson.
Conclusion
Crimson is still operating at a loss and has started to fight back against TRAPs with its newfound footing. While at the start of the war it was 75-80% industrial and scattered it is now 25-30% industrial and concentrated.
During the war the TRAPS CEO proceeded to write propaganda on the forums using the intel gained from the spy and extracts from conversations with Crimson members or ex-Crimson members to tarnish CrimsonÆs name and make Crimson look the fools and to look like the horrible evil side of the war.
Many comments were made about the leadership of Crimson alliance and its members.
Tigerfish Torpedo
Title: CEO and executor of Crimson Alliance and Underworld Protection Agency.
Tigerfish Torpedo was personally named many times in posts on forums and mails for being the reason why the Crimson alliance has done so badly in the war. This is not the case.
While you may think considering I am a Crimson member and part of UPAY I am under his foot and being a brown nose, it is because I am part of the alliance and part of UPAY that I am able to say the things I am about to say.
Tigerfish Torpedo created pages of useful mails and posts on the alliance forums on how to create good ship setups and how to make sure you donÆt get surprised and attacked while playing eve. He managed to negotiate the use of Providence for the purpose of ratting, mining and occationally the deployment of a POS for all the corporations of the alliance. Tiger frequently charged into combat on his own and claimed many a kill while only suffering once or twice by losing a ship. It cannot be said he doesnÆt care about his members as he denied surrender to the TRAPs CEO. This was shown as a sign of weakness and the TRAPs CEO proceeded to say that Tigerfish Torpedo is infact keeping the war on because he is stubborn and because he thinks he can win, the fact of the matter is Tiger does not want the alliance to have to bow down to anyone or anything, which includes a pirate corporation who may be winning on the killboards but the war is still ongoing.
A favourite quote of mine by the TRAPs CEO is as follows:
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Analysing and Destroying your arguments since early 2007 :) Enjoy.
Yankee Alpha Romeo Romeo Romeo |
SilentHunter13
Underworld Protection Agency
The Crimson Federation
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 19:34:00 -
[5]
ôPlease read what I wrote. Tiger said I was personally attacking him from the get-go in this thread or in the other thread in C&P. The fact is I never once mentioned him by name in either of those threads. He posted and brought it to everyone's attention that he was one of the people I was basing my story on.ö
- If you say so, maybe you named him once and the rest of the times you did not, but considering you were only at war with 1 alliance it made it abundantly clear to the world who you were talking about when you said the CEO of the alliance we are at war with.
ôI find it hard to believe you care Tiger. You show it in odd ways if you do. The comments you make do not come across as a CEO who cares.ö
-Tigerfish has been seen from the outside through the angry eyes of someone who is at war with his alliance. This puts your whole argument into questions of validity and it may be hard to show how he cares for his members when you are not a member and all you have received from him is maybe a bit of smack once.
This is the account of the Crimson Federation Alliance war with The Really Awesome Players from the crimson perspective using facts from the crimson eyes and facts available to crimson. It will be different to the one posted by TRAPs as the one posted by traps is focused on tearing down the alliance when this is focused on telling the truth on facts.
Please read through some parts carefully before responding to this thread in the unfortunate case you say something that is covered.
ôWe were and still are not winning on the kill/death ratio however due to the alliance being mainly industrial the losses are not through faulty leadership. We have now started to push back and create more kills than losses now that we have reorganised and thought about our situation. At one point in the TRAPs war we were at war with 4 corporations with 3 fronts to the war while having 75-80% of the alliance industrial, this would be the reason why we took so many casualtiesö
-Quoted from SilentHunter13 ingame
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Analysing and Destroying your arguments since early 2007 :) Enjoy.
Yankee Alpha Romeo Romeo Romeo |
SilentHunter13
Underworld Protection Agency
The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.10 19:38:00 -
[6]
I thank you for taking your time to read this post and i hope it will show light on both sides of the story.
The alliance is not some sort of evil empire, this is not the grand arena and nothing.....NOTHING is as it seems on face value from either side of the war.
Yours
Silent
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Analysing and Destroying your arguments since early 2007 :) Enjoy.
Yankee Alpha Romeo Romeo Romeo |
Attak
Trioptimum
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.10 19:39:00 -
[7]
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bigred monkey
Sphere Systems
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Posted - 2007.10.10 20:17:00 -
[8]
as a long stadning friedn to tiger i was astonished to read what had been said about him on other posts. speaking as a nuetral i have never found tiger to be more than anything but helpful on numerous occasions, freely advising on ship set-ups even to thoose not neccesarily blue to him. I have never flown for tiger but whenever we meet in space he is always around to share the beer with and enjoy a few words or even the occasional war storie with.
i emplore tiger to keep up his fight and never surrender, to do so would be a crime. and to the forum *****s who flame crimson federation is it not said 'all is fair in love and war'
remember, the final history is always written by the victors!!
Congratualtions, your signature broke all of our signature size rules - exceeding the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Timmeh ([email protected]) |
Berrik Radhok
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.10 20:23:00 -
[9]
never heard of either of you
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King Dave
Spartan Industries
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.10.10 20:40:00 -
[10]
attaks post is gonna get pwnd...
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Tristeria
Phantasmal Collective
Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.10 20:43:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: King Dave
attaks post is gonna get pwnd...
He was thinking what we were all thinking
thread is over now
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Setana Manoro
Gallente
Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.10 20:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: SilentHunter13
I thank you for taking your time to read this post and i hope it will show light on both sides of the story.
The alliance is not some sort of evil empire, this is not the grand arena and nothing.....NOTHING is as it seems on face value from either side of the war.
Yours
Silent
Nope, but you have idiots as players. I'll give you a hint, he's the OP of this thread. linky
I'm not neutral in RAGOON vs BOB, I just dislike both sides. :) |
Exteerminator
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Posted - 2007.10.11 19:20:00 -
[13]
lol, from what I've read on eve-pirate, Nexa had alliance chat logs even well after you booted EMP from the alliance, so I assume the other corps in Crimson had at least several spies/informers.
"Later was it found that EMP had a spy from TRAPs, the spy was never found but it relates to the reason why EMP was later kicked from the alliance"
well if you read traps side of the story over at eve pirate, you would have realised the identity of the spy alt by now :) someone called doomkitty I believe. But since you seem to exhibit the standard intelligence level for one of Tiger's minions I suppose you're only finding out now :)
Seems to me like you booted most of the corps recently for image purposes, its hard for Tigerfish's massively inflated ego to endure a negative loss/kill ratio I suppose :)
I just wonder how having to eventually pay a large fee to traps will dent his pride ;)
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SilentHunter13
Underworld Protection Agency
The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.11 19:39:00 -
[14]
Edited by: SilentHunter13 on 11/10/2007 19:44:51
While EMP were kicked before Nexa posted the mails it does not mean we had more than one spy in the alliance but that she refrained from posting them until she had enough info to make a biased story on eve-pirate. With that in mind there could still have been another spy within the alliance after EMP was removed.
"Seems to me like you booted most of the corps recently for image purposes, its hard for Tigerfish's massively inflated ego to endure a negative loss/kill ratio I suppose :)" - Again with the personal attacks on tiger, this leads me to believe you are indeed a alt of a TRAPs member or a TRAPs sympathiser. Whether or not you will deny this it is true that TRAPs have many many alt characters and share the same intel channel as REPO and other corporations. It is not a matter of ego and it was not for tigerfish's sole benefit that the corporations were taken out of the alliance. Alot of the alliance was low on morale and some corporations were simply not helping or even contributing to the alliance in any real way apart from using its name. The removing of the corps was long overdue and the TRAPs war sped this process up, Nexa saw this as a sign that TRAPs had destroyed crimson and that she had made a majority of the member corps leave, this is not the case and it should not be thought to be the case. While one or two may have left due to the war not every corp which left was opposed to tiger or the war but were simply not contributing to the alliance or other member corps.
Alliances are different to corporations as any alliance leader who reads this can back me up on. It is not a matter of simply sending out a mail to compensate for losses or for a lack of posting losses for instance it is much more complicated with the member corp's CEOs being ultimately responsible for keeping the corp in line and helping the alliance. If a executor of a alliance uses force or threatens other corporations to get in line it is so that they will get in line and not dilly dally around the point or simply ignore the move. Tiger was never the only leader of the alliance and takes into consideration all of what member corp CEOs say and has meetings with member corp CEOs every now and again.
"The problem with people is they expect the government to do too much and at the same time to do too little" - This quote sums up what i am saying.
Yours
Silent
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Analysing and Destroying your arguments since early 2007 :) Enjoy.
Yankee Alpha Romeo Romeo Romeo |
BlackRain McMillan
Underworld Protection Agency
The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.11 20:26:00 -
[15]
Too much talking here... the perspective has been put out there for anyone to see... some will see it and understand... others will attempt to make it out to be something it isn't.
Either way, there is no point in arguing the perspective and responding to the child-like jabs of those who don't agree with it.
Let the issue go and let's spend our time and efforts in more productive endeavors.
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Setana Manoro
Gallente
Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.11 22:47:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 11/10/2007 22:50:19
Originally by: BlackRain McMillan
Too much talking here... the perspective has been put out there for anyone to see... some will see it and understand... others will attempt to make it out to be something it isn't.
Either way, there is no point in arguing the perspective and responding to the child-like jabs of those who don't agree with it.
Let the issue go and let's spend our time and efforts in more productive endeavors.
The OP was made by the guy that lured a TRAPS member into a 1;1 and then dishonored it. How much of an idiot do you have to be, to let him post ?
Oh c'mon, now playing the card of the big man at heart. You guys write a wall of text spread over 4 posts, prepared before, and now at page 1 you want it to be gone already.
PS: If you think I'm a fan of Nexa, or his alt or the alt of someone in his organization, guess again. In fact i criticized him on several opportunities on eve-pirate.
I'm not neutral in RAGOON vs BOB, I just dislike both sides. :) |
Redbad
Minmatar
Mean Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.11 23:45:00 -
[17]
/me breaks out the popcorn
Oh goodie: Only trust your own ears for listening, only trust your own brain for interpretation.
RB
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Nexa Necis
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.10.12 02:13:00 -
[18]
Originally by: SilentHunter13
EMP were taken in by Crimson (for no cost) claiming that pirates shouldnÆt bully this industrial corp into paying them a large amount of money.
My understanding from EMP's CEO was that they were charged 25 million. Either way, that's not the point I was focused on so much in my story.
My main point about that is, how the heck can you say, "We are defenders of industrial corps and will help them fight bullies at no charge." when anyone can look on your killboard and see 90% of the kills you post are on haulers and npc'ers. Those people are no different than EMP's industry and ratter/missioning type. Those people didn't attack you. You attacked them.
I especially like that you have members gate camping in carriers killing innocent people passing through.
So you sit and call TRAPS bullies, yet you do the same thing. At least with us, they get a 24 hour warning before the war starts and we give them options not to die.
Originally by: SilentHunter13
Some pvp corps were recruited such as Space Borderline who came into the war very quickly taking losses and giving out punishment aswell.
According to some of the Space Borderline folk Tiger still owes the corp money for ISK promised on reimbursing their losses.
I also noticed they left your alliance once you pulled that weak 1vs1 scam/trick. Coincidence? Not likely.
Originally by: SilentHunter13
Tigerfish Torpedo was personally named many times in posts on forums and mails for being the reason why the Crimson alliance has done so badly in the war. This is not the case.
He wasn't the sole reason, but he certainly didn't help much between his posting on the forums and bragging/smacking in local at every turn.
Originally by: SilentHunter13
If you say so, maybe you named him once and the rest of the times you did not, but considering you were only at war with 1 alliance it made it abundantly clear to the world who you were talking about when you said the CEO of the alliance we are at war with.
Yes I do say so. The only time I planned on naming him was in my story. He read my posts and claimed to be the person I was talking about. No one would've had much of a clue if he didn't post to make comments.
Originally by: SilentHunter13
ôI find it hard to believe you care Tiger. You show it in odd ways if you do. The comments you make do not come across as a CEO who cares.ö
- Tigerfish has been seen from the outside through the angry eyes of someone who is at war with his alliance.
I was never angry at any point in time. I take people at face value. Tiger said a lot of things and did a lot of things that made no sense to me. As you can tell, a lot of people read my story and read his posts on the forums and a lot of people agreed with me.
You will argue they are Nexa fanbois or something, but at some point you're going to have to realize, people are agreeing with me because the stuff he did made no sense and seemed to be a bad move.
Originally by: SilentHunter13
At one point in the TRAPs war we were at war with 4 corporations with 3 fronts to the war while having 75-80% of the alliance industrial, this would be the reason why we took so many casualtiesö
Well we had several wars in effect as well. We managed ok. You guys should be able to do even better I would think given your overall numbers.
Originally by: SilentHunter13
The alliance is not some sort of evil empire, this is not the grand arena and nothing.....NOTHING is as it seems on face value from either side of the war.
No one said the alliance was evil. I said your alliance claimed to protect weak industry people, your alliance claimed to be honorable, sportsmanlike, they claimed to post all killboard losses, they claimed TRAPS sucked, TRAPS only blob, Nexa can't solo and always needs a full gang, among lots of other things.
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Nexa Necis
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.10.12 02:20:00 -
[19]
Originally by: SilentHunter13
"Seems to me like you booted most of the corps recently for image purposes, its hard for Tigerfish's massively inflated ego to endure a negative loss/kill ratio I suppose :)" - Again with the personal attacks on tiger, this leads me to believe you are indeed a alt of a TRAPs member or a TRAPs sympathiser.
See this is why people won't ever respect what you say. You're claiming they're a TRAPS fan and actually they are not. They have posted negative criticism about me on Eve-Pirate.com.
As I said, it's obvious Tiger and several of UPAY intentionally don't post losses. You have people like Entyce who claim they do, you have people like Tiger who brag about their lack of losses.
To most people that would indicate players who are concerned with the image of a "flawless" killboard. Kicking those corps out for preserving the kill/loss ratio does not seem unlikely considering the fact you stack your killboard.
I think the purpose of your post is damage control after the scam you pulled on my corpmate.
You conned him into thinking he was about to 1vs1 you and you arranged it so your corp could gank him.
Again, you opted for a cheap and easy kill instead of taking the high road, which if anyone bothers to read your wall of text, will see that you're trying to portray your alliance as some group of friendly people just making their way in the game who enjoy a spot of PvP and TRAPS and their CEO Nexa are just a bunch of bullies and propagandists.
TSB corp left your alliance after that move, another of your corpmates also read your "excuse" as to why/how the 1vs1 trick took place and agreed it was totally shameless and completely lame to the point they don't want to fight TRAPS alongside some of you because of your actions in that encounter.
That's coming directly from people in your corp. No propaganda there.
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Revan Neferis
Amarr
Bloodveil
The Sani Sabik
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Posted - 2007.10.12 11:01:00 -
[20]
There is a serious lack of respect coming from both sides in this conflict.
A pitty that yet another war turns into a stress field and stage of hate among players isntead of a good diversion.
Alchemy for a New World Order .^. |
KBP7 GriefingAlt
Enough is Enough
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Posted - 2007.10.12 11:07:00 -
[21]
Can I get a tl:dr version please?
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Saint Luka
The Illuminati.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.12 11:14:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Saint Luka on 12/10/2007 11:15:20
Whilst i did not read your thread i am sure it was an entertaining view of events i'd just like too say my never ending respect for TRAPS. Was once a member of the group and can say that they are a nice group of PVPers.
Edit: Much love for Nexa Necis ♥
-Kirkland, Illuminati, Triumvirate Director.
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Dianeces
Minmatar
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.10.12 11:26:00 -
[23]
Originally by: KBP7 GriefingAlt
Can I get a tl:dr version please?
See my sig.
Quote:
Cristobalus DeMora > so what do the forums say?
Jaleean Atheria > smack smack smack flame smack flame smack smack flame alt post flame flame flame smack flame *click*
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KBP7 GriefingAlt
Enough is Enough
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Posted - 2007.10.12 11:40:00 -
[24]
Well, to be honest SilentHunter13, you'd better hope Kriz Lupin never returns to Thakala >_>
Yes it was a isk problem, I was paying the bill myself and there was quite a few decs on you at the time. Also the only time NESW interfered properly was when you were camping me in thakala with 8 members in bs, command ships and that really stupid carrier pilot you have.
Although this thread was a really great idea :whatthechrist:
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Skywalker
Minmatar
MAFIA
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Posted - 2007.10.12 12:25:00 -
[25]
Seems like the damage is already done to you corp.
All attackers don't have a goal to make a corp vanish, sometimes causing members to leave and halt the industrial activities is enough.
You also gained something from this war, experience.
MAFIA Website
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SilentHunter13
Underworld Protection Agency
The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.12 13:03:00 -
[26]
No matter what you think this thread is not to do with the 1v1 incident.
Let me make myself clear on that side of things. I as said before in other posts did not agree to a 1v1 at the point in time and i am a grunt and did not organise the gank myself but was ordered to be bait.
"You conned him into thinking he was about to 1vs1 you and you arranged it so your corp could gank him. " - If i am not mistaken your guy seeked me out in his own time, i did not know that i woul have lots of members nearby and higher up members telling me what to do, i did not know he would contact me not near 40 mins after i sent the mail and had a decent mail conversation with him. I did not set out to con TRAPs but as funny as it may be now i set out to try and get some respect for my alliance by trying to get TRAPs to trust us enough to do 1v1s and to get a more sypathetic crowd on the boards and forums. The fact that he was killed by alot of crimson members doesnt mean that i set out with the sole purpose to gank the guy as soon as he agred to a 1v1 and it does not mean that i am a 100% untrustworthy person because i was told to do somthing by higher ranking individuals within my alliance. Ask other members of alliances they have been told to do things that they do not agree with but go along with it cause they are afterall a member.
I treat the alliance like i am in a army, i can talk down to members below me in rank i can critisize other's moves but i cannot and will not disobey a direct order from my superiors. Not sure if anyone posting on this forum can accept this or understand it.
I'm sorry that we ganked your guy and that it looked like we baited him out for 1v1, that was not my intention as was pointed out, he came to seek me in his own time and at his own leisure, the fact that he came to find me after i had a battle with your members and proceeded to stay docked in fear of being ganked myself (however funny you may think THAT to be) shows that i did not set out to gank your member with a huge fleet and to discredit the alliance, why would i post glowing reports of the alliance and then contradict myself immediately afterwords? it makes no sence to do such a thing, you are just searching for more fodder to throw at our alliance and seem to be pointing the sole blame on me. Think about it, i was not the only person in the gank otherwise it would not be called a gank.
While i did exploit a loophole in the coversation for a 1v1 and that is seen as a way of not respecting a 1v1 it was perfectly easy and simple for your member to ask me in local if i wanted to do the 1v1 now and as i said in local i did not want to do the 1v1 at that time. So it is not my fault that he followed my dominix off the station BEFORE engaging and got ganked in the process.
To finish this i hope that you will stop using the 1v1 incident as a response to absolutetly frigging everything a crimson member posts or someone who is pro crimson posts.
The comments made by tiger for isntance such as "this is war, all is fair in love and war" and so on and so forth are not made by me and are condemed by me, i told the people on vent that i would like to try and sort this issue out MYSELF without the intervention of someone else that would somehow contradict my statements.
Yours
Silent
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Analysing and Destroying your arguments since early 2007 :) Enjoy.
Yankee Alpha Romeo Romeo Romeo |
Sacul
Wreckless Abandon
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.12 13:17:00 -
[27]
OMG
James315 is that you?
The stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones!
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SilentHunter13
Underworld Protection Agency
The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.12 13:27:00 -
[28]
In again response to the personal attacks on tiger's statements and how valid they are.
I would like to remind the world that tiger has not suffered a loss against a TRAPs member in this war, out of the 2 ships he has lost during this current period of time one was a rapier on which he lost to another war with a corp not named in the timeline called Stimulus where he was podded also and he posted that on all the killboards he is member to and the other being the raven he lost to spyra gyra on which was replaced by the GMs and so was not posted as it was lost due a very messed up bug that i myself have experienced a while back.
Dont claim he has not posted his losses for he has not suffered one versus a traps member
I would also in this oppertunity like to point out that you cannot and should not play the "you kill haulers" card as when i look on your killboards today i see that yesturday TRAPs killed a hauler in low sec.
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Analysing and Destroying your arguments since early 2007 :) Enjoy.
Yankee Alpha Romeo Romeo Romeo |
Nexa Necis
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.10.12 14:25:00 -
[29]
Originally by: SilentHunter13
In again response to the personal attacks on tiger's statements and how valid they are.
I would like to remind the world that tiger has not suffered a loss against a TRAPs member in this war, out of the 2 ships he has lost during this current period of time one was a rapier on which he lost to another war with a corp not named in the timeline called Stimulus where he was podded also and he posted that on all the killboards he is member to and the other being the raven he lost to spyra gyra on which was replaced by the GMs and so was not posted as it was lost due a very messed up bug that i myself have experienced a while back.
Dont claim he has not posted his losses.
Ok, once again it amazes me that you don't read what I post. I mean I read your entire post and look at any facts you post. Once again, look at these and explain them.
Here are what I am sure are a small portion of UPAY's losses NOT posted on their own killboard. Feel free to give the excuse/reason why they are not posted.
http://nesw.griefwatch.net/?p=details&kill=6184
http://nesw.griefwatch.net/?p=details&kill=6183
http://nesw.griefwatch.net/?p=details&kill=5660
Those are a few of the people from UPAY who were claimed to enforce posting of losses and who always post their own losses.
Let's look at Tiger's "unblemished" record. Explain these too.
http://eve-kb.com/view.php?type=player&name=Tigerfish+Torpedo&id=893630&page=1&filter=losses#mail
http://eve-kb.com/view.php?type=player&name=Tigerfish+Torpedo&id=1205148&page=1&filter=losses#mail
http://eve-kb.com/view.php?type=player&name=Tigerfish+Torpedo&id=1020730&page=1&filter=losses#mail
http://eve-kb.com/view.php?type=player&name=Tigerfish+Torpedo&id=875328&page=1&filter=losses#mail
There's 4 not accounted for by Tiger. I am sure there are a few more out there.
Originally by: SilentHunter13
"Tigerfish Torpedo > Ask her to prove it,... Considering there's nothing on her own killboard"
"Tigerfish Torpedo > You woulda thought a Traps pilot that killed me, would submit it to their own board, no?"
We haven't killed Tiger. So what. You haven't killed me either. I don't brag about my killboard record or any such stats like Tiger does and like you do for him.
Originally by: SilentHunter13
I would like to point out while we have said once or twice in game that "TRAPs suck" or "TRAPS gank" and even "Nexa cant 1v1" you have said the very same on eve-pirate and forums even if not exactly my words but basically hinted it to the point where its blatantly obvious what you are saying. So dont act all innocent and say you have never made fun of crimson or its members or even its CEO on which you still manage to use the same argument against his credability which is as stated above.
Please stop accusing and show the proof. Quote me in context too please. As I have said before, if you guys were sportsmanlike and honorable as you claim, we would never make fun of you and your actions.
Originally by: SilentHunter13
Also in this oppertunity like to point out that you cannot and should not play the "you kill haulers" card as when i look on your killboards today i see that yesturday TRAPs killed a hauler in low sec.
Right. We kill haulers in low sec and high sec. What's the difference between you and us then you ask? We don't claim to go protecting those players from bullies as Tiger did. Again you don't seem to grasp the point I was making. You can't sit and say, "I will defend these poor industry people from bullies like TRAPS who only fight weak targets." then turn around and have it to where 90% of your KB is group kills of ratter/hauler pilots who aren't looking to PvP.
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Nexa Necis
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.10.12 14:33:00 -
[30]
Here's another one of Tiger's "missing" losses.
http://evh.br472267.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=112
Again, I am sure there are more out there and more that he lost but whoever killed him might not have had a KB to post it to.
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Shadoo
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.10.12 15:01:00 -
[31]
Hardly think we deserve any mention in this particular war of endurance...
You've not been a target of ours beoynd some low sec solo/small gang action as you happen to be in the area of our RR base some people spent time in every now and then fixing sec (downwards) between alliance work. There would have not been any problem with a war dec, had the majority of our corp members been active near Devoid area without anything else to do.
Few pilots did put alts in a corp to test the waters a bit, but it didn't seem to me like there was all that much action going on apart from that one fight in Thakala where you didn't commit your carriers beyond station hugging.
I do recall myself spending a day or two hunting you folks to revenge the freighter you guys came to save from my solo ishtar at a gate  .
From what I've seen tiger seems like a good guy, so good luck to you guys whatever way the winds take you.
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SilentHunter13
Underworld Protection Agency
The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.12 15:24:00 -
[32]
Edited by: SilentHunter13 on 12/10/2007 15:26:42
http://eve-kb.com/view.php?type=player&name=Tigerfish+Torpedo&id=893630&page=1&filter=losses#mail
- This one is from sylph alliance and thus cannot be posted on the crimson killboard, if its not posted on another killboard then it could be the fact that there are tonnes of killboards on the internet.
http://eve-kb.com/view.php?type=player&name=Tigerfish+Torpedo&id=1205148&page=1&filter=losses#mail
- He admits he didnt post this one and cant remember however we didnt have a crimson killboard at the time of the privateer war
http://eve-kb.com/view.php?type=player&name=Tigerfish+Torpedo&id=1020730&page=1&filter=losses#mail
- Again with the same issue as this death is part of sylph alliance and thus isnt on the crimson killboard as its not possible to put it on the killboard.
http://eve-kb.com/view.php?type=player&name=Tigerfish+Torpedo&id=875328&page=1&filter=losses#mail
- This kill he is part of sylph and as was said if its not on all the killboards then tough, its on one and that should be enough as there are tonnes of killboards on the internet.
Please stop accusing and show the proof. Quote me in context too please. As I have said before, if you guys were sportsmanlike and honorable as you claim, we would never make fun of you and your actions.
- LOL? read your own eve pirate post, i did not say in that instance just then that you smack in game but i said you do it on the forums instead. Which is true, even if you dont, your members do, all you need to do is look on the forum thread started by you on the subject "is it wrong for a CEO to care?"
The thing with that is we dont war dec a industrial corp and claim it to be a huge victory and kill haulers we just do it in our spare time, you declare war and demand money from them. I'm sorry we cant kill 100% pvpers but you cant say that we should as you dont either, as i said, you cannot ever take the moral high ground as you none the less war decced a industrial corp over such a small incident of taking a cap booster from a wreck of a guy you managed to kill.
http://evh.br472267.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=112
- He admits that this is another post he did not make, however we did not have the killboard up and running back then so its a simple reason why its not posted.
The crimson killboard was not up instantly as crimson was made. The ones posted by someone when he was in sylph are easily explainable why they arent on the crimson killboard because this was pre-crimson while he was in sylph and thus cannot be posted on the killboard as it says "you have no right to post this mail" - Those sylph kills are in the past and if they arent posted on the killboards you look at take into consideration that there are tonnes of killboards on the internet and not everyone, not even YOU post on all of them. You are just digging and looking for excuses to discredit tiger.
Yours
Silent
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Analysing and Destroying your arguments since early 2007 :) Enjoy.
Yankee Alpha Romeo Romeo Romeo |
Dianeces
Minmatar
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.10.12 15:26:00 -
[33]
Originally by: SilentHunter13
I treat the alliance like i am in a army, i can talk down to members below me in rank i can critisize other's moves but i cannot and will not disobey a direct order from my superiors. Not sure if anyone posting on this forum can accept this or understand it.
Hi there! U.S. Army here. You've got it wrong. You don't talk down to your subordinates, it tends to want to make them not follow you or try to sabotage anything you do. Also, direct orders must only be followed if they are both legal and ethical. If you feel an order is unethical or illegal, it is your duty to say something. If you're not satisfied by the response, you don't follow the order. Simple, see? Spouting off the ole "I was ordered to" bit doesn't hack it. In fact, here's a nice linky of guys who did some really bad stuff, tried that for a defense, and lost. "Just following orders" isn't a valid excuse. (Before I'm flamed for making real world analogies, I'd like to point out that I wasn't the one to come up with this, I'm just dragging it out to it's logical conclusion.)
Originally by: SilentHunter13
Also in this oppertunity like to point out that you cannot and should not play the "you kill haulers" card as when i look on your killboards today i see that on the 4th of october TRAPs killed a hauler in low sec. Don't try and claim the clever moral high ground, you who demands money from industrial corps to end a war declaration. EMP as a perfect example...
The only hauler kill I see on the 4th is one in 0.0. Now I don't know about you, but most of the people I run into while in 0.0 tend to understand that it's dangerous, and they generally take precautions. While I won't say it was a fair fight (how much fight can a hauler really put up?), I will say that it's a fair sight different than ganking random newbs in lowsec or popping people silly enough to fly haulers during wartime.
Respectfully,
Dianeces
Loyal TRAPS Member
Quote:
Cristobalus DeMora > so what do the forums say?
Jaleean Atheria > smack smack smack flame smack flame smack smack flame alt post flame flame flame smack flame *click*
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SilentHunter13
Underworld Protection Agency
The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.12 15:29:00 -
[34]
Edited by: SilentHunter13 on 12/10/2007 15:31:18
Hehe, i am not part of the army so i dont know it fully, but what i understand of the army. Sorry if i said somthing thats not factually correct in the American Army (note i am british if that changes anything :S).
I understand it wasnt a fair fight and that if someone were to fly a hauler in 0.0 he should be using a escort or a scout and if he didnt then its his fault, i was simply stating that you guys managed to kill a hauler in 0.0 and thus can no longer tell us off for killing the occational hauler that enters low sec. Doesnt matter if it was one or many the fact remains you cannot take the moral high ground in this.
Yours
Silent
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Analysing and Destroying your arguments since early 2007 :) Enjoy.
Yankee Alpha Romeo Romeo Romeo |
SilentHunter13
Underworld Protection Agency
The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.12 15:43:00 -
[35]
The deaths not posted by Entyce and co are unknown before this. Maybe they accidentally deleted the mail, maybe they got refunded by GMs and didnt post it. At this point in time its not easy to know with a lack of the people accused online or in crimson any more.
These few kills are just a small side effort to discredit the alliance, you digging deeper to try and make the alliance look like liers and 'cheaters'. Not EVERYONE on eve can assure 100% posts on killboards even their own alliance, while you may have made a real effort to do it not everyone acts or thinks like you and there could have been many a reason why the posts are not posted. While we said including entyce said that we enforce it, it might have not been in entyce's mind at the time that he forgot or didnt get to post a kill, if you were simply to say to him earlier on that he forgot to post a death and link it for him he could have given a reason at the time, you did not you kept it to yourself and said that people in crimson dont post their losses when its a minority and you deliberately didnt say who exactly so that we could possibly correct the issue, some people dont remember every single loss they take and thus some people may think themselves exempt to a order to post losses, you didnt specify aswell that it was pre TRAPs war or at the very start and not lost to a TRAPs member you just said someone didnt post, again confusing that we thought we did considering we posted the deaths that TRAPs inflicted or as many as we can without practically threatening someone (to whom we wouldnt know to threaten as you did not make it clear as to who was at fault) to post the deaths.
The fact it has gone on for aslong as it has means you left it so that you could use it as fodder to discredit the alliance instead of being a, in your own words, "true sportsman" and telling us exactly where the fault is so that we could fix it.
Yours
Silent
------------------------------------------
Analysing and Destroying your arguments since early 2007 :) Enjoy.
Yankee Alpha Romeo Romeo Romeo |
Dianeces
Minmatar
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.10.12 15:54:00 -
[36]
Originally by: SilentHunter13
Hehe, i am not part of the army so i dont know it fully, but what i understand of the army. Sorry if i said somthing thats not factually correct in the American Army (note i am british if that changes anything :S).
Doesn't really change anything, really. The point I was making is that not every order must be followed. If you felt that playing bait when you knew our pilot was expecting a 1v1 was wrong, you should've said something instead of playing along and later claiming you are somehow not as responsible because you weren't the one to order it. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you want to be seen as honorable, but then you go and do silly stuff like this that's generally accepted to be bad form and then wonder why people suddenly see you as dishonorable. Just because your CEO tells you to do something, doesn't make it right. In your position, there would've been no shame in telling Tiger that you wouldn't play bait and leaving the system. But you didn't, and that's the point.
Originally by: SilentHunter13
I understand it wasnt a fair fight and that if someone were to fly a hauler in 0.0 he should be using a escort or a scout and if he didnt then its his fault, i was simply stating that you guys managed to kill a hauler in 0.0 and thus can no longer tell us off for killing the occational hauler that enters low sec. Doesnt matter if it was one or many the fact remains you cannot take the moral high ground in this.
We don't claim the moral high ground because of our targets. I shoot anything I can get away with, haulers, mining barges, noobships, and shuttles included. We claim the moral high ground because we don't claim to protect those people and then shoot others like them in our spare time. When EMP joined Crimson, Tiger said it was because Crimson wanted to protect the innocent miners and industrials from the bullies in TRAPS. (Note: those are obviously not the exact words, but it conveys the same message, since I cba to dig through Eve-O to find the thread that came from.) And yet you shoot other innocent miners and industrials in your spare time. Even if they're red to you, chances are they had no knowledge of the incident that led to those standings when they joined. And they almost certainly weren't part of the incident itself (people like me tend to be the cause of negative standings ). So, you want to protect one group of miners while....shooting all the others? Do you see where this leads to inconsistencies? It's a textbook definition of hypocrisy, and that's why we say you guys aren't all you make yourselves out to be.
Respectfully,
Dianeces
Loyal TRAPS Member
Quote:
Cristobalus DeMora > so what do the forums say?
Jaleean Atheria > smack smack smack flame smack flame smack smack flame alt post flame flame flame smack flame *click*
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SilentHunter13
Underworld Protection Agency
The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.12 16:27:00 -
[37]
Edited by: SilentHunter13 on 12/10/2007 16:32:03
i agree with you on many points there, however what i meant by some people cannot be made to post it is that some people may not know what a killboard is considering many people in the industrial corps are new and rarely die or so on and so forth, so when they die the deathmail gets sent to their private mailbox which cannot be accessed and thus it is impossible to force someone to post the loss especially as when you kill the person it seems the person gets annoyed or upset and logs off for a while on which we eventually forgot he lost a ship due to the fact that it wasnt posted, its a cycle that was ended due to the re-organisation of the alliance leaving only people who know about killboards and are mainly pvpers so use them and are less likely not to post, it was never intentional but the way Nexa made it out on the forums and eve-pirate made it look like we told people never to post losses or that we dont try AT ALL to help the situation, which is why we got annoyed at the forum posts as they were factually incorrect and nexa refused to change them cause it would show she lacked information and wasnt correct herself.
We werent ignorant or ignoring you all, it was just that you accused or seemingly accused us of doing it deliberately which is why you got such a strong response and smack as we dont do it deliberately it is somthing that used to happen and needed to be adressed, we thanked you for telling us, but the way that Nexa kept accusing us and basing her arguments or falling back on the point to show that we arent honest made us quite annoyed and angry. We didnt follow up all the cases as after a while of following up all the cases and telling the people off it got tedious and some people never learn. We were kinda busy, being under attack from all sides, talking about the situation in length, being annoyed at the forum demonising us at every turn and as i said at the very start TRAPs was not our only concern, you guys werent the main problem for us.
Yours
Silent
------------------------------------------
Analysing and Destroying your arguments since early 2007 :) Enjoy.
Yankee Alpha Romeo Romeo Romeo |
SilentHunter13
Underworld Protection Agency
The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.12 17:34:00 -
[38]
- IMPORTANT NEWS -
2007.10.12 17:28
CONCORD has declared this war invalid as it breaches one or more articles in the Yulai Convention.
The really awesome players have either forgot the pay the bill or have run out of money or intentionally didnt pay the bill. It is unknown at the time of this post 17:30 GMT what is the case.
Nexa has said before that she wouldnt end the war or would only end when we say we have had enough, we havent said so. Is this her going back on her word or a real mistake?
Yours
Silent
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Analysing and Destroying your arguments since early 2007 :) Enjoy.
Yankee Alpha Romeo Romeo Romeo |
Wesley Baird
Murder-Death-Kill
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Posted - 2007.10.12 17:53:00 -
[39]
Originally by: SilentHunter13
- IMPORTANT NEWS -
2007.10.12 17:28
CONCORD has declared this war invalid as it breaches one or more articles in the Yulai Convention.
The really awesome players have either forgot the pay the bill or have run out of money or intentionally didnt pay the bill. It is unknown at the time of this post 17:30 GMT what is the case.
Nexa has said before that she wouldnt end the war or would only end when we say we have had enough, we havent said so. Is this her going back on her word or a real mistake?
Yours
Silent
What's your malfunction??? You claim TRAPS is trying to discredit your alliance, so rather than let the story fade away you create a thread on it putting the spotlight on yourself. Then your alliance gets shown to not honor 1v1's, great PR btw!! Now you are mocking them about letting the dec slide...perhaps you are looking for some more attention from other Empire war dec'ing corps...your sweet cries in this thread maybe motivation enough for others to take interest in you...
Take my advice, let sleeping dogs be...
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Jezala
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.12 18:23:00 -
[40]
Originally by: SilentHunter13
- IMPORTANT NEWS -
2007.10.12 17:28
CONCORD has declared this war invalid as it breaches one or more articles in the Yulai Convention.
The really awesome players have either forgot the pay the bill or have run out of money or intentionally didnt pay the bill. It is unknown at the time of this post 17:30 GMT what is the case.
Nexa has said before that she wouldnt end the war or would only end when we say we have had enough, we havent said so. Is this her going back on her word or a real mistake?
Yours
Silent
You're a damn fool for stirring up **** while on contract. If you were smart then you would just edit out everything you wrote in this thread until after the campaign is over.
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SilentHunter13
Underworld Protection Agency
The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.12 21:07:00 -
[41]
Edited by: SilentHunter13 on 12/10/2007 21:09:49
I did not stir things up, i simply started by stating the facts then trying to salvage the situation. People replied on the thread so i replied back.
The simple fact is that Nexa seems to be taking every little thing we do to discredit us, so when it comes to them maybe doing somthing wrong you all attack me for stating it? i didnt state she let it slide, i didnt even say she was a coward or anything insulting, it was a open question as to why she forgot or didnt pay the dec upkeep fees.
I cant let this be cause this whole thing involves me and my alliance and corporation, i am allowed to talk about this situation till were all blue in the face because its relavent. If you dont like what i am saying then by all means DONT POST or dont read it and just move on, there are other threads you can reply on and complain in.
And the campaign will be over by the end of tomorrow, it was just unexpected by TRAPs to not pay the war fees, maybe it was accidental, they havent responded on the issue yet so i dont know. If they have and i dont know about it then please link it to me so that i can read it.
The fact remains she said that she would not end the war until crimson surrendered and she said it on several occations, so the fact that they are ending the war warrants a explanation as to why.
Yours
Silent
------------------------------------------
Analysing and Destroying your arguments since early 2007 :) Enjoy.
Yankee Alpha Romeo Romeo Romeo |
Revan Neferis
Amarr
Bloodveil
The Sani Sabik
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Posted - 2007.10.12 21:10:00 -
[42]
Originally by: SilentHunter13
I did not stir things up, i simply started by stating the facts then trying to salvage the situation. People replied on the thread so i replied back.
The simple fact is that Nexa seems to be taking every little thing we do to discredit us, so when it comes to them maybe doing somthing wrong you all attack me for stating it? i didnt state she let it slide, i didnt even say she was a coward or anything insulting, it was a open question as to why she forgot or didnt pay the dec upkeep fees.
I cant let sleeping dogs be cause this whole thing involves me and my alliance and corporation, i am allowed to talk about this situation till were all blue in the face because its relavent. If you dont like what i am saying then by all means DONT POST or dont read it and just move on, there are other threads you can reply on and complain in.
mmm I really don't like the way this thread is going.
Alchemy for a New World Order .^. |
Exteerminator
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Posted - 2007.10.12 21:36:00 -
[43]
Originally by: SilentHunter13
- IMPORTANT NEWS -
2007.10.12 17:28
CONCORD has declared this war invalid as it breaches one or more articles in the Yulai Convention.
The really awesome players have either forgot the pay the bill or have run out of money or intentionally didnt pay the bill. It is unknown at the time of this post 17:30 GMT what is the case.
Nexa has said before that she wouldnt end the war or would only end when we say we have had enough, we havent said so. Is this her going back on her word or a real mistake?
Yours
Silent
hmm maybe its to do with the fact that they decced 2 new corps today : Veyr and Skots Industries. They're obviously bored of dealing with a bunch of whining smacktalkers such as yourselves, and gone off to find new prey. 
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Aslovi
Caldari
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.12 21:50:00 -
[44]
Originally by: SilentHunter13
- IMPORTANT NEWS -
2007.10.12 17:28
CONCORD has declared this war invalid as it breaches one or more articles in the Yulai Convention.
The really awesome players have either forgot the pay the bill or have run out of money or intentionally didnt pay the bill. It is unknown at the time of this post 17:30 GMT what is the case.
Nexa has said before that she wouldnt end the war or would only end when we say we have had enough, we havent said so. Is this her going back on her word or a real mistake?
Yours
Silent
OMG your an idiot!
Having wasted the last 30mins reading this thread there are so many holes in your statements its in true, you comment on REPO aka MUCC yet you know nothing about us or our reasons.
As for this post maybe they retracted since your once mighty allaince now only has 58 members, I'd say they did a damn fine job 
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SilentHunter13
Underworld Protection Agency
The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.12 21:58:00 -
[45]
"hmm maybe its to do with the fact that they decced 2 new corps today" - Ah so thats the reason, thank you, i wanted to know.
"OMG your an idiot!" - Thank you for your contribution to this forum thread to nowhere.
"Having wasted the last 30mins reading this thread there are so many holes in your statements its in true, you comment on REPO aka MUCC yet you know nothing about us or our reasons." - I comment because its related and i only said one or two things, i said it from a crimson perspective, considering you never gave the reasons for war deccing us and then removing it we assumed you had business elsewhere, if you attack me for stating what we see then you have to attack nexa for stating simply what she sees.
"As for this post maybe they retracted since your once mighty allaince now only has 58 members, I'd say they did a damn fine job" - Lol, yes our alliance has shrunk partly to do with the war and other reasons, wouldnt say they did it singlehandedly but they didnt help the situation much ^^
Yours
Silent
------------------------------------------
Analysing and Destroying your arguments since early 2007 :) Enjoy.
Yankee Alpha Romeo Romeo Romeo |
Dianeces
Minmatar
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.10.12 22:19:00 -
[46]
Protip: anything that sorta-kinda looks like it may be smackish + Repo = bad juju
Just a friendly heads-up.
Respectfully,
Dianeces
Loyal TRAPS member
Quote:
Cristobalus DeMora > so what do the forums say?
Jaleean Atheria > smack smack smack flame smack flame smack smack flame alt post flame flame flame smack flame *click*
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Chae Csee
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.10.12 22:33:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Chae Csee on 12/10/2007 22:34:26
Originally by: SilentHunter13
- IMPORTANT NEWS -
2007.10.12 17:28
CONCORD has declared this war invalid as it breaches one or more articles in the Yulai Convention.
The really awesome players have either forgot the pay the bill or have run out of money or intentionally didnt pay the bill. It is unknown at the time of this post 17:30 GMT what is the case.
Nexa has said before that she wouldnt end the war or would only end when we say we have had enough, we havent said so. Is this her going back on her word or a real mistake?
Yours
Silent
You are 99% noise 1% signal. Please at least read what is out there before you start running off at the mouth.
Quote:
Freaky - #47.1.1 - 2007-10-10 17:31 - (Reply)
A fleet battle would be good but honestly my guys wouldn't trust your guys at this point.
Also there would be many timing issues as we can see you guys seem to play the opposite times as we play.
I can't do a cease fire though. The war will continue indefinitely. It might stop for a while, but rest assured it will start up again and again.
Again, I am fully aware that it's war and anything goes.
However if you're claiming honor and claiming sportsmanship all the time like lots of Crimson have, especially Silenthunter, then pull a stunt like that and then say stop complaining it's war, it's a bit weak.
If any of my guys pulled that stunt, they would be looking for a new corp and reinsuring their pod about 5 minutes after I log in.
So far you're one of the few people I like in that alliance. You seem to understand the way our action can work for and against us and our corp/alliance.
Good luck out there.
http://www.eve-pirate.com/index.php?/archives/911-Dirty-Work-Part-4-The-Finale.html#c9199
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Gladiator Jonny
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.12 23:16:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Dianeces
Protip: anything that sorta-kinda looks like it may be smackish + Repo = bad juju
Just a friendly heads-up.
Respectfully,
Dianeces
Loyal TRAPS member
Nobody ever belives this...
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The Thunderchild
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.10.12 23:37:00 -
[49]
So what you're saying is....
During the war you have lost members,
The War has cost you money in terms of taxes and resources,
During the war you have taken more losses then your enemy,
Also I'd like to point out that as a war declaring corp I'm sure TRAPS is prepared to pay for the war fees before they actually do declare war.
Even The Endurance had a plan out.
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Tridgit
Infortunatus Eventus
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Posted - 2007.10.12 23:54:00 -
[50]
My corp wardecced TRAPS not too long ago. (between gigs thing they were active in local). had some nice conversations with nexa and crew.
during this a crimson fed pilot did the ol "Can anyone test my tank out?" scheme. so i thought wth lets see how many friends he brings. after ages of stalling he tells me to warp on to some planet in tash and take from his can. ok fine i do so and engage. i see a 2nd raven on scan. ohh only one? thats ok, i called my corpmates in (two onieros' and a repper scorpion) and proceeded to aniahlate the one raven.
the traps guys wouldnt have broken the 1v1, or even tried that lame ass hisec gank trick
moral of the story? wish idda decced crimson instead.
<< Mercenary >>
- - !INEVE is currently recruiting! - - |
Nexa Necis
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.10.13 02:57:00 -
[51]
Originally by: SilentHunter13
http://eve-kb.com/view.php?type=player&name=Tigerfish+Torpedo&id=893630&page=1&filter=losses#mail
- This one is from sylph alliance and thus cannot be posted on the crimson killboard, if its not posted on another killboard then it could be the fact that there are tonnes of killboards on the internet.
Well you guys have kills listed on your killboard from Dec of 2006, that are obviously not Crimson kills. So why are they there? Hmmm...
Originally by: SilentHunter13
http://eve-kb.com/view.php?type=player&name=Tigerfish+Torpedo&id=1205148&page=1&filter=losses#mail
- He admits he didnt post this one and cant remember however we didnt have a crimson killboard at the time of the privateer war
Funny, here's a kill dated 3-31-07 that is on the board....
http://killboard.crimsonfederation.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=47
His loss occured on 4-27-07. Hmm....
http://eve-kb.com/view.php?type=player&name=Tigerfish+Torpedo&id=1020730&page=1&filter=losses#mail
Originally by: SilentHunter13
LOL? read your own eve pirate post, i did not say in that instance just then that you smack in game but i said you do it on the forums instead. Which is true, even if you dont, your members do, all you need to do is look on the forum thread started by you on the subject "is it wrong for a CEO to care?"
Smack talk would be when you guys say "TRAPS never 1vs1! TRAPS only blob! TRAPS suck at Pvp!" You're saying my smack talk is me quoting facts and expanding on them.
Originally by: SilentHunter13
The thing with that is we dont war dec a industrial corp and claim it to be a huge victory and kill haulers we just do it in our spare time, you declare war and demand money from them. I'm sorry we cant kill 100% pvpers but you cant say that we should as you dont either, as i said, you cannot ever take the moral high ground as you none the less war decced a industrial corp over such a small incident of taking a cap booster from a wreck of a guy you managed to kill.
I don't care what your play style is. I would never have brought it up. My problem was you guys made a ton of accusations about my corp and tried to put us in a negative light, when in actuality, you do the same thing. So what we dec them and ask for money. You're saying you never ransom anyone when you gank those haulers/ratters? What's the difference?
You consider a cap booster a small incident. I don't. It's the principle of the matter. Just because BoB owns 1000 POS's and you kill one, you think they won't try to stop you? A POS to them is a drop in the bucket but if you try to pop one, I bet they try to kill you.
Again, you're making negative allusions regarding our motives for dec'ing EMP.
Originally by: SilentHunter13
http://evh.br472267.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=112
- He admits that this is another post he did not make, however we did not have the killboard up and running back then so its a simple reason why its not posted.
You really are making yourself, your alliance and Tiger look like complete idiots when you post stuff like that without checking facts.
The killboard shows you have a campaign start date on Thakala starting 04/01/2007...
http://killboard.crimsonfederation.com/?a=cc_detail&ctr_id=7
Tiger has kills posted prior to him losing that Pilgrim under his stats.
Again, take the time to read, breathe, read some more. I never said it was shabby that his old kills weren't listed on other killboards. I said he never posted them on the Crimson one. The Crimson killboard has kills posted dating back to Dec 2006. I don't expect him to post on other killboards. Whoever killed him posted on those boards. Try to grasp what I am saying. You had trouble understanding our killboard breakdown a bit ago as well.
You can see from the responses here, you're not doing your alliance any favors.
As far as why the war dropped, it's because the overall lack of targets and we're on to fresh blood. We will be back. We might have more friends next time.
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Setana Manoro
Gallente
Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.13 11:59:00 -
[52]
Originally by: SilentHunter13
Edited by: SilentHunter13 on 12/10/2007 13:09:44
No matter what you think this thread is not to do with the 1v1 incident.
Let me make myself clear on that side of things. I as said before in other posts did not agree to a 1v1 at the point in time and i am a grunt and did not organise the gank myself but was ordered to be bait.
"You conned him into thinking he was about to 1vs1 you and you arranged it so your corp could gank him. " - If i am not mistaken your guy seeked me out in his own time, i did not know that i woul have lots of members nearby and higher up members telling me what to do, i did not know he would contact me not near 40 mins after i sent the mail and had a decent mail conversation with him. I did not set out to con TRAPs but as funny as it may be now i set out to try and get some respect for my alliance by trying to get TRAPs to trust us enough to do 1v1s and to get a more sypathetic crowd on the boards and forums. The fact that he was killed by alot of crimson members doesnt mean that i set out with the sole purpose to gank the guy as soon as he agred to a 1v1 and it does not mean that i am a 100% untrustworthy person because i was told to do somthing by higher ranking individuals within my alliance. Ask other members of alliances they have been told to do things that they do not agree with but go along with it cause they are afterall a member.
I treat the alliance like i am in a army, i can talk down to members below me in rank i can critisize other's moves but i cannot and will not disobey a direct order from my superiors. Not sure if anyone posting on this forum can accept this or understand it.
I'm sorry that we ganked your guy and that it looked like we baited him out for 1v1, that was not my intention as was pointed out, he came to seek me in his own time and at his own leisure, the fact that he came to find me after i had a battle with your members and proceeded to stay docked in fear of being ganked myself (however funny you may think THAT to be) shows that i did not set out to gank your member with a huge fleet and to discredit the alliance, why would i post glowing reports of the alliance and then contradict myself immediately afterwords? it makes no sence to do such a thing, you are just searching for more fodder to throw at our alliance and seem to be pointing the sole blame on me. Think about it, i was not the only person in the gank otherwise it would not be called a gank.
While i did exploit a loophole in the coversation for a 1v1 and that is seen as a way of not respecting a 1v1 it was perfectly easy and simple for your member to ask me in local if i wanted to do the 1v1 now and as i said in local i did not want to do the 1v1 at that time. So it is not my fault that he followed my dominix off the station BEFORE engaging and got ganked in the process.
To finish this i hope that you will stop using the 1v1 incident as a response to absolutetly frigging everything a crimson member posts or someone who is pro crimson posts.
The comments made by tiger for isntance such as "this is war, all is fair in love and war" and so on and so forth are not made by me and are condemed by me, i told the people on vent that i would like to try and sort this issue out MYSELF without the intervention of someone else that would somehow contradict my statements.
A well written piece of crap. This is not the army, this is not a job, this is a fracking game. If you don't like how the ppl you play with behave, you either tell them that and if needed walk, or you stay with them and accept responsability, and have the pair to accept them, not write a reply that shows your deep deep internal turmoil, the fact that you are trapped between 2 opposing worlds, honour and "for the good of the alliance". They couldn't have known where the 1;1 was taking place without your help. Accept some fracking responsability you whiner.
I'm not neutral in RAGOON vs BOB, I just dislike both sides. :) |
Setana Manoro
Gallente
Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.13 12:12:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 13/10/2007 12:13:45
Originally by: Dianeces
Originally by: SilentHunter13
I treat the alliance like i am in a army, i can talk down to members below me in rank i can critisize other's moves but i cannot and will not disobey a direct order from my superiors. Not sure if anyone posting on this forum can accept this or understand it.
Hi there! U.S. Army here. You've got it wrong. You don't talk down to your subordinates, it tends to want to make them not follow you or try to sabotage anything you do. Also, direct orders must only be followed if they are both legal and ethical. If you feel an order is unethical or illegal, it is your duty to say something. If you're not satisfied by the response, you don't follow the order. Simple, see? Spouting off the ole "I was ordered to" bit doesn't hack it. In fact, here's a nice linky of guys who did some really bad stuff, tried that for a defense, and lost. "Just following orders" isn't a valid excuse. (Before I'm flamed for making real world analogies, I'd like to point out that I wasn't the one to come up with this, I'm just dragging it out to it's logical conclusion.)
Originally by: SilentHunter13
Also in this oppertunity like to point out that you cannot and should not play the "you kill haulers" card as when i look on your killboards today i see that on the 4th of october TRAPs killed a hauler in low sec. Don't try and claim the clever moral high ground, you who demands money from industrial corps to end a war declaration. EMP as a perfect example...
The only hauler kill I see on the 4th is one in 0.0. Now I don't know about you, but most of the people I run into while in 0.0 tend to understand that it's dangerous, and they generally take precautions. While I won't say it was a fair fight (how much fight can a hauler really put up?), I will say that it's a fair sight different than ganking random newbs in lowsec or popping people silly enough to fly haulers during wartime.
Respectfully,
Dianeces
Loyal TRAPS Member
Dianeces, that's a very bad example.
First of all the Nuremberg trials were not conducted by the German state. They were conducted by the states that defeated the 3rd Reich. 2nd, in the case you dissobey a order, you are tried i believe by a military tribunal, not a civilian one.
3rd, that trial took place after a war that ignited the entire world. I dare say that they wanted them to be guilty and to some extent it wasn't impartial, even though some of the accused may have been guilty.
4th, if you in the Army dissobey a order, you are tried and then sentenced if found that you have no case, you aren't sumarily executed, which is what would have happened if you questioned a order in **** Germany, in the Army, especially in the 2nd half of the war.
So yeah, that is one very very very bad example.
Give an example after WW2 which involved some US Army individual. :)
PS: The word **** - natzi and substract t, is not allowed on this board. Much harm it can do in this conversation, right CCP ?
I'm not neutral in RAGOON vs BOB, I just dislike both sides. :) |
Major Stormer
Caldari
Copperhead Inc.
Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.13 12:50:00 -
[54]
Hehe you have to love it when a large alliance posts about "how awesome they are compared to the 27 man corp that war declared them".
Originally by: SirMolle
Excuse me? BoB slave corp?
k, if thats what you wish, you just got your wish granted. Forever.
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Baudolino
Gallente
Royal Crimson Lancers
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Posted - 2007.10.13 19:12:00 -
[55]
Just saw the thread and thought i`d put in a word.
RCLAN unfortunately got pulled out of the war. I had to change apartment in RL and didn`t have a working internet connection for 2 months. During my absence my longest standing friend in EVE and my co-CEO decided to leave the game altogether. Both directors afk in a small PvP corp is never good and i`ve basically told people to find something else to do while i get things sorted.
Fighting EMP was going to be a long term project and we were looking forward to many engagements with their new alliance- which they later left. We re-decced them, but had no way of doing anything about it.
RCLAN was the first corp to decc EMP and it was after our initial engagements with EMP and their friends "the order of the pink flamingo" that others starting getting in. We had a kill/loss ratio of 33/4 over the first few days, but then we had to concentrate on fighting cyrene initiative and dark star limited- dark star got some good kills on us while we ended on even with cyrene initiative- i din`t have time to do much in this phase as i was looking for a new place to live and then i had to move.
Royal Crimson Lancers is not doing much atm, but with me returning to town for the long term and the new router arriving next week, RCLAN should once more be causing pain an suffering...
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