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Jin Roh
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Posted - 2004.02.22 00:17:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Jin Roh on 22/02/2004 00:17:33
Defenders are basically useless. I would definately like to see some type of energy based or projectile based point defense similiar to the CIWS the navies use. Thoughts? Flames? Trolls?
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2004.02.22 00:58:00 -
[2]
Agreed. There should be some form of missile defence for each race. They dont have to be perfect as it would make missiles to ineffective based on their cost per missile but there should be somthing.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Setesh
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Posted - 2004.02.22 09:03:00 -
[3]
If they added PDL's and removed the mega and zyd from missle mineral requirements they could easily balance it and the game would become alot more interesting.
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Jin Roh
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Posted - 2004.02.22 13:19:00 -
[4]
Perhaps something similar to MechWarrior. Shoots VERY fast carries limited ammo or uses a good bit of energy. But still able to have a decent chance to destroy a missle or missles within a certain radius. Law of averages say some are always gonna get through, but frankly defenders are just goddamn useless. When you go up against NPC's with 75% more ammo than you and the ability to fire almost non stop with no reload time, you need something.
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Zzazzt
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Posted - 2004.02.23 02:47:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Zzazzt on 23/02/2004 02:49:42
Edited by: Zzazzt on 23/02/2004 02:48:22
 Quote:
Perhaps something similar to MechWarrior. Shoots VERY fast carries limited ammo or uses a good bit of energy. But still able to have a decent chance to destroy a missle or missles within a certain radius. Law of averages say some are always gonna get through, but frankly defenders are just goddamn useless. When you go up against NPC's with 75% more ammo than you and the ability to fire almost non stop with no reload time, you need something.
Yeah - good point. In MW2, the more point defence modules u have, the more missiles u can take out. S'not a straight comparison tho, as 'mechs fire missile volleys rather than single missiles. But a 'defender turret' should:
- have say the same (or slightly faster) rof than a small turret (and could itself be a small turret)
- do enuff damage to take out anything but torps
- only be able to get rockets if player's motion prediction skill is lvl 5
- only be able to target missiles
This would be an excellent addition, as it would serve to make ships without launcher hps more viable as pvp vessels
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MLM: Gentlemen at Play |
Darsk'hul
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Posted - 2004.02.23 09:14:00 -
[6]
Got my vote Jin'roh :thumb up:
__________
No more CEO of Placid Partners Inc.
Contact for this corp is now Yilo.
Freelancer at Lost Order |
Jin Roh
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Posted - 2004.02.23 15:44:00 -
[7]
Well with the torps, you should still be able to destroy them with several hits or at least slow them up more. As to the slot level well a high slot would be feasible, but possibly maybe a passive low or mid slot that only enages what targets you within certain envelope. Or maybe even a "fleet" defense mode that engages all missles in range?
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2004.02.23 16:14:00 -
[8]
Well personally this is how I would see point defences for each race...
Caldari...
Missiles are a caldari weapon so they would use the defenders. Defenders will have a rougly 80% chance of hitting their targets becuase they are the most expensive and limited ammo point defence there is. Also missiles are inherintly more accurate.
Amarr...
Amarr have point defence lasers that use a little cap (not alot) and are rapid firing with an accuracy of about 10%. These lasers can also easily be fitted on frigates. The low accuracy is a balance for the unlimited rounds the laser has and its high firing rate.
Minmatar...
Minmatar use flak cannons that set up a screne that will either make the missile expode or make it lose its target and miss. The ammo is relativly cheaper to the cost of the defenders and much more can be carried so it has an effective accuray of about 50% but a limited range.
Gallante...
Gallante have defender drones that will circle the ship and attempt to shoot down the incoming missiles. While drones are expensive they can easily be swarmed to make an effective cover with erach drone having an effective accuray of about 60%.
The figures above are only rough and alot of testing would be needed to balance them properly but it at least provides alternative methods of missile defence. Also if it can be designed so that one ship can cover his or her corp/gang mate this can create a more strategic element to fleet battles with some ships being purely dedicated to intercepting missiles. This also means that these ships may be prime targets for the enemy to take down in order to get a missile bombardment through again adding more strategy to a fleet battle.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Darsk'hul
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Posted - 2004.02.23 17:04:00 -
[9]
Wild Rho got my vote too
__________
No more CEO of Placid Partners Inc.
Contact for this corp is now Yilo.
Freelancer at Lost Order |
Hasek
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Posted - 2004.02.23 18:09:00 -
[10]
same here
one of the best ideas ive ever heard for this
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Jin Roh
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Posted - 2004.02.23 22:15:00 -
[11]
Still those damn defenders need to be fixed in either case. As to race based weapons, that would be an excellent idea and I had inteded to post it when I got home from work, but that post was much more though out than what I had intended. Perhaps with the defenders, make them a SABOT/FLECHETE round. They carry a huge amount of smaller rounds and act like a "shotgun" when in close to an incoming missle, and the launchers should be able to carry a crap load of them, or possible a dedicated PD launcher?
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Deros
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Posted - 2004.02.24 09:54:00 -
[12]
tbh imo, a better solution that would maybe require less work would be to simply make the current defenders target random missiles headed at you rather than the nearest.
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Jin Roh
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Posted - 2004.02.24 14:05:00 -
[13]
While that would work, it might take even more resources to accomplish. Think of how many missles a group of say Enslavers can spam out? That's a huge number to crunch there with a random target. If that's possible, the Defenders still need to be beefed up in speed and launch rate.
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Jin Roh
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Posted - 2004.02.25 03:18:00 -
[14]
<Bump> Cause I really wanna hash this out. I frankly am tired of getting spammed by the neverending launchers some NPC's have.
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Emily
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Posted - 2004.02.25 03:51:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Emily on 25/02/2004 03:55:12
there are some past threads on missile defense buried deep in this section of the forums. Good that someone else resurected this issue again.
I believe that most, if not all, who play agree that defender missiles are useless in the current game environment, be it used for missile defense against NPCs or PvPs. Great Idea for race based missile defense. The use of drones might not make it. Drones seem to cause problems with FPS no matter what is done to minimize their impact.
How about some more ideas on this ?????
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Venture
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Posted - 2004.02.25 06:55:00 -
[16]
I like the point defense idea but they can improve the defender missiles and do the same thing. Defenders should be able to take out any missile or torpedo with one hit. My reasoning is that you have 2 projectiles impacting head-on and IMO that will explode any warhead.
As for defenders, I carry (2) Arbalest assault launchers that fire every 3 seconds. It worked out pretty good with heavy and light missiles, but unfortunately it does very little against cruise missiles and torpedos. That's why most players don't use Defenders.
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Security Director/Fleet Admiral
"Smoke everyone and be happy!" |
Jin Roh
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Posted - 2004.02.26 01:33:00 -
[17]
Well...that is concept for CIWS or for you non military parlance, Close In Weapon System. It thows up a wall of depleated uranuim bullets to intercept of destroy incoming missles. To the tune of 20,000per minute. I think it should be completly "reactive", ie it detects incoming missles, and it automaticaly engages them in the order of the highest threat. Random in this instance is stupid, cause we all know at the worst time the idiot PD weapon will pick ALL the furthest missles.
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Jin Roh
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Posted - 2004.02.27 17:44:00 -
[18]
<BUMP>
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Kai lun
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Posted - 2004.02.27 19:47:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Kai lun on 27/02/2004 19:48:28
I really like the idea of race based wepons but what is to stop the player from using another races wepons on their ship. Also maybe another idea might be a dedicated Tech 2 ship that will have anti missile systems incorperated into the ship. With this maybe something like a battle ship that would only have 4 high slots but would have the inate ability to atomatically target and destroy missiles that are headed for it or gang mates. Maybe something like the defender ships from Homeworld.
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Jin Roh
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Posted - 2004.02.28 00:29:00 -
[20]
Well nothing actually, just like as an Amarr I still use projectile weapons. They shouldn't be race restriced, and if anything maybe each race should get a bonous for using IT's type of PD weapon. As to a dedicated anti-missle platform, well you could turn just about any ship into one. Maybe some might be better, ie like the Blackbird is an excellent EW platform. I hope the devs really consider this. As it is I can't take the noobs in my corp hunting high level missle rast, cause getting spammed with infinite Widowmakers makes for a dead noob :)
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Squirrel
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Posted - 2004.02.28 01:08:00 -
[21]
erhm.... so let me get this straight.... u want to make the caldari battleships totally useless?
great idea.... lets nerf the damage that is already lowest in dmg over time... great job... lets go go go.... NOT
do u ppl ever think of what would happen if the devs actually read this?
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Carfax > guys, please dont pvp here, it messes up the avoid pd kill zones autopilot option |
Jin Roh
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Posted - 2004.02.29 04:25:00 -
[22]
You do raise a good point. So let's say with the addition of improved point defense, let's improve missles. Yeah it sounds kinda stupid, but why not? I use missles just as everyone else does, and wouldn't have a problem with improving them to deal with PD. Perhaps, penetrations aides ON the missles(ecm in other words), or perhaps faster missles or missle varients that sacrifice speed for heavier warheads and improve PENAIDES or sacrifice those for more speed, in the same vein improve launcher capacity and speed. Cause really...today a VLS Ticonderoga Missle Cruiser in the Navy can cycle it's whole ready missle load in something like 15 seconds(that's like 90 missles). Thoughts?
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Zzazzt
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Posted - 2004.02.29 11:47:00 -
[23]
I think missiles should be faster & have a higher ROF.
But come on squirrel - it's hardly as if the raven's a crap ship, eh?
But whilst you're bleating, yes - a player should be able to adequately defend against any single ship. ATM, if you lock down a raven, you have a horde of fof cruises to deal with, and no effective method of dealing with them.
Now, if they were made sensetive to ECM bursts....
____________________________________________
MLM: Gentlemen at Play |
Jin Roh
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Posted - 2004.03.01 14:13:00 -
[24]
bump
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SlightlyMad
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Posted - 2004.03.01 14:19:00 -
[25]
Whats wrong with defenders!?
Seriously.. what other weaponsystem can you nullify damage?
The balance is finaly getting there
*
-"You know, we play the "good guys" right? We kill pirates, griefers, retards and general subversive elements in the EVE-Community. To the rest, we are friendly and always prepared to help out. Peo |
Wild Rho
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Posted - 2004.03.01 17:12:00 -
[26]
Missiles should be the most damage effective weapons in the game (in relation to the other races equivalents) due to the high cost, relativly low ammo and interceptable vulnerabilites BUT every race should also have some form of defence agasint them with varying degrees of effectivness.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Dark Stranger
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Posted - 2004.03.01 19:49:00 -
[27]
Have your punisher buddy shoot down all those torps with med-beams. Easily possible with skills and boosters. Or so I've been told.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2004.03.02 12:58:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Wild Rho on 02/03/2004 12:59:00
Until your buddy is targetted and promptly blown to space dust.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Commander Stringer
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Posted - 2004.03.02 13:03:00 -
[29]
Anyone noticed that some of the NPC rats already do this? Shoot down torpedos and such. Angel Cartel rats do this a lot I noticed while i had my scorp deep in 0.0
If rats have the ability then so should we 
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.03.02 14:44:00 -
[30]
A serial minelauncher chucking them out like depthcharges in combat to draw missiles would be nice.
Convert Stations
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