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Hans Viktor
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Posted - 2007.10.14 14:16:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Hans Viktor on 14/10/2007 14:18:32 It seems like the more I think about this Drone Bandwith system, and what seems to be a horrible death for the Myrmidon, I don't think it's right...
I guess the issue is that the Myrmidon is the only battlecruiser able to field a full 5 heavy drones. With that in itself I don't see the problem. The gallente are drone users, they SHOULD design their ships to be the best drone boat they can be. The DPS caused by Ogre II's though is quite high for a battlecruiser, but by themselves, their DPS isn't too "uber". I think it would be a smarter idea to remove a few turret hardpoints from the Myr to decrease the DPS from its guns to put it on par with other battle cruisers tanking and DPS. I mean, there IS a reason it doesn't have a gun bonus, it's a DRONE ship. So why is the drone boat BC having similar turret hardpoints as the rest? I'd say that is the unfair part. Same amount of guns, w/ heavy drones? Just get rid of some guns.
Currently any Myr pilot risk's atleast half his DPS when using heavy drones. All you have to do is pop the drones, and his DPS drops as he can't replace them(and nerf scoop while your at it, because thats just a exploit).
I'd say to keep the Myr competitive after the drone changes, it either needs a slightly better bonus to drone dmg (to help buff up those mediums a bit more), or some gun bonuses. Simply having 100x backups of medium drones doesn't help much when you cant break someones tank.
Maybe someone can point out something I'm missing, and I'll see how this is actually the best route, but I feel like there are better ways to do this.
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Laboratus
Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.10.14 14:22:00 -
[2]
Most of the forum regulars don't know how to fight against drone ships. Hence they percieve drone ships as "OP". They try to move on their perception to the forums, and thus get tactics that their personal tactics don't work on nerfed. They are quite good in this kind of social engineering, and as a result we get unneeded and unwanted nerfs... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
Hans Viktor
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Posted - 2007.10.14 14:24:00 -
[3]
Haha, I like the way you think :)
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MellaRinn
Gallente Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.14 14:25:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Laboratus Most of the forum regulars don't know how to fight against drone ships. Hence they percieve drone ships as "OP". They try to move on their perception to the forums, and thus get tactics that their personal tactics don't work on nerfed. They are quite good in this kind of social engineering, and as a result we get unneeded and unwanted nerfs...
QFT. Myr would be fine with 3-4 turrets instead :/
✖Veto Corp. Training Officer✖ Click the sig 4 my vids |
Tammarr
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Posted - 2007.10.14 14:58:00 -
[5]
Myrm is fine, sure take away 2 turret hardpoints or something but 5 heavies is fun and it gets very interesting little fights vs a myrm pilot who can play or fighting against someone that can fight a myrm.
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Katrina Coreli
toxicology
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Posted - 2007.10.14 16:30:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Katrina Coreli on 14/10/2007 16:30:53 A decrease in turret hardpoints would sufice providing it comes with the sensor damp nerf.
Otherwise knock of a med slot too imo.
But only fielding meds? a nerf too far imo
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enymphia
The Movement
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Posted - 2007.10.14 16:41:00 -
[7]
the big question is: why nerf the eos? it doesnt even have a dmg bonus to drones like the myrm.. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.14 16:46:00 -
[8]
Originally by: enymphia the big question is: why nerf the eos? it doesnt even have a dmg bonus to drones like the myrm..
Compare it to the other fleet command ships, and it should be obvious enough... ------------------------------------------
What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
Azuse
The Brotherhood Of The Blade Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.14 17:09:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Azuse on 14/10/2007 17:11:24 The issue isn't the drones, it's the attainable damage with them.
E.g 5 hammerheads, 6 ions (void) 1 magstab 578 dps max, plus its tank and 5 mids. Harbringer, 5 hammerhads, pulses (conflag) 568 dps max, slower, better buffer but overtime lower tank.
With those 5 ogres it can do 815 with ions and void, in short it can out damage most of the bs you see floating in space. So to your changes, it already out damages the other bc with mediums, **** it can do 793 using only electrons and ogre IIs i mean it out damages them without any turret bonus.
the point of the drone ships has always been better flexibility and (slightly) batter damage than other ships at the expense of having the only destructible weapons system but being able to throw wave after wave at their foes. Until now though ccp had no way of controlling what drones a said ship could field, drones aren't broken down by ship classes like other weapons, the only limiting factor is the bay size and they cant make those larger without open the doors for bugger drones, e.g spare waves wiould be great in a vexor, but without bandwidth you increase the bay they could field heavies.
Long story short the myrm's way out of balance damage wise to its piers, in the same way the harbs dps was initially too high, or the drakes tank too strong, but we're getter more drones in return. The other ships got balanced without any trade but you want heavies and it's domi or ishtar for you, ishtars already carry several waves of drones more heavies makes me a happy pilot
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Laboratus
Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.10.14 17:21:00 -
[10]
Paper dps for drones is useless. You can't get it except in very specific circumstance... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
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Heravik
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Posted - 2007.10.14 17:32:00 -
[11]
imho..take the dron bay down to 100 throw out a high slot (remove someo f its PG and CPU since now theres one less high slot) and maybe through out a nother medium =P
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Reto
The Last Resort
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Posted - 2007.10.14 17:42:00 -
[12]
nerf ner nerf....idiots! the myrm is the only tier 2 bc with 17 meds. it should have 18 like all the others. nerfing its turrets is dumb as anything else. why nerf something which isnt bonused ?
a myrm using 5 heavies is a dead bc. u can even bbq it with 4 tI frigs but the noobs who get bbqed by it spam their crap here instead of trying again and take some time thinking about their faulty tactic. ffs if ccp thinks it must be nerfed they will nerf it. imo theyll give it enuff dronebandwith to use 4 heavies instead of 5 and add some dronebay so it can field more different types. dronebandwidth is only a way to balance droneboats in another way than the dronebay size.
Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
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True Ace
Gallente Invicta. Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2007.10.14 18:16:00 -
[13]
im a blaster myrm pilot and id rather lose the heavies than my turret hard points so u fools shut it up. nothing wrong with 5 hammerhead 2s, 5 hobogoblins 2s, and 5 ecm drones.
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Sarah Benthwell
Dolaris Holdings
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Posted - 2007.10.14 18:40:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Sarah Benthwell on 14/10/2007 18:40:00 With the rescouping nerf, I don't see any need to nerf the myrm drones even further. _______ shig |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.14 19:33:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sarah Benthwell Edited by: Sarah Benthwell on 14/10/2007 18:40:00 With the rescouping nerf, I don't see any need to nerf the myrm drones even further.
What reescooping nerf?
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
LarryBongo
The Scope
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Posted - 2007.10.14 19:40:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
What reescooping nerf?
Drone shields will no longer recharge after being scooped and then re-launched. Mentioned in one of the dev blogs I think.
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Annowyn
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Posted - 2007.10.14 19:59:00 -
[17]
Maybe I haven't been reading the same things as everyone else has. Has anything nerf sounding about the bandwidth been mentioned? Personally I think ships such as the Myrm and the other drone boats should be able to deploy more drones. Keep the same drone bay, but maybe instead launch 4 heavies and assorted med/smalls.
The DPS from the drones is so easily negated that it's almost laughable. Perhaps the "nerf" will drop the damage dealing potential from turrets on drone boats and increase their drone damage.
Or maybe I didn't read the, "we are nerfing drone boats so hard that a week after the patch everyone will be flying raven torp boats in pvp," blog.
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Acoco Osiris
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.10.14 21:09:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Annowyn Edited by: Annowyn on 14/10/2007 20:09:50 Maybe I haven't been reading the same things as everyone else has. Has anything nerf sounding about the bandwidth been mentioned? Personally I think ships such as the Myrm and the other drone boats should be able to deploy more drones. Keep the same drone bay, but maybe instead launch 4 heavies and assorted med/smalls.
The DPS from the drones is so easily negated that it's almost laughable. Perhaps the "nerf" will drop the damage dealing potential from turrets on drone boats and increase their drone damage.
Or maybe I didn't read the, "we are nerfing drone boats so hard that a week after the patch everyone will be flying raven torp boats in pvp," blog.'
EDIT: And yeah, if you launch 5 heavies from a myrm, you just killed yourself.
The 5 drone limit will stay. They put that in after the lag caused by drones got too excessive (and replaced the drone number boni with drone damage/HP boni). ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars. |
Annowyn
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Posted - 2007.10.14 21:14:00 -
[19]
Fair enough.
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Zy Nox
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Posted - 2007.10.14 21:19:00 -
[20]
People want the myrmidon nerfed because it ****es all over the other BC's in EFT.
Luckily I dont play EFT, I play EVE and myrmidons can definatley be beaten by my hurricane, it only really gets tough when they have rigged 6 slot tanks on.
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Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation
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Posted - 2007.10.14 21:33:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Zy Nox People want the myrmidon nerfed because it ****es all over the other BC's in EFT.
Luckily I dont play EFT, I play EVE and myrmidons can definatley be beaten by my hurricane, it only really gets tough when they have rigged 6 slot tanks on.
TBH, that's the only way to fly the Myrmidon (imho). The "800 DPS with Ions" or whatever involves completely gutting your tank - and the DPS is fine with a "9 slot" armor tank.
That said, I'm 100% convinced that flying the Myrmidon is a gamble - especially with 5 Heavies. You're betting that everyone you run across will be too stupid to shoot the drones (and it's generally a good bet!)
IMHO: The Myrmidon doesn't need a nerf. Keep the bandwidth for 5 heavies, increase the drone bay size (yay spares!), and nerf some turrets. At the very least, 1 turret (gang mod), and probably 1-2 more. My gunnery skills suck anyway.
Ancedotally (and that matters for nothing on these forums, but I'll provide it anyway):
I once solo engaged a VETO gang of Prophecy, Vexor, Taranis, and Crow. I had the Prophecy into hull (deeply) before they finally broke my tank. I learned alot about how to fit a Myrmidon that day (darn VETO, lol). At least they ransomed me...
On the flip side, I got melted by an Astarte a few days before that. I only got a single rep cycle in before I went down.
So what's the moral of the story? 1. The Myrmidon can have a beastly tank. This is expected since it has a tanking bonus. 2. The Myrmidon is not invincible. 3. I got way off track and I can't be bothered to rewrite the post for a 4th time.
Liang
-- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU.
Yarr? |
TimMc
Skiddies of Doom
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Posted - 2007.10.14 21:43:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Zy Nox People want the myrmidon nerfed because it ****es all over the other BC's in EFT.
Luckily I dont play EFT, I play EVE and myrmidons can definatley be beaten by my hurricane, it only really gets tough when they have rigged 6 slot tanks on.
TBH, that's the only way to fly the Myrmidon (imho). The "800 DPS with Ions" or whatever involves completely gutting your tank - and the DPS is fine with a "9 slot" armor tank.
That said, I'm 100% convinced that flying the Myrmidon is a gamble - especially with 5 Heavies. You're betting that everyone you run across will be too stupid to shoot the drones (and it's generally a good bet!)
IMHO: The Myrmidon doesn't need a nerf. Keep the bandwidth for 5 heavies, increase the drone bay size (yay spares!), and nerf some turrets. At the very least, 1 turret (gang mod), and probably 1-2 more. My gunnery skills suck anyway.
Ancedotally (and that matters for nothing on these forums, but I'll provide it anyway):
I once solo engaged a VETO gang of Prophecy, Vexor, Taranis, and Crow. I had the Prophecy into hull (deeply) before they finally broke my tank. I learned alot about how to fit a Myrmidon that day (darn VETO, lol). At least they ransomed me...
On the flip side, I got melted by an Astarte a few days before that. I only got a single rep cycle in before I went down.
So what's the moral of the story? 1. The Myrmidon can have a beastly tank. This is expected since it has a tanking bonus. 2. The Myrmidon is not invincible. 3. I got way off track and I can't be bothered to rewrite the post for a 4th time.
Liang
Both of you are right, the other Teir2 BC's are beasts. I fly the Hurricane and Drakes for different reasons than the Myrmidon, but they are all great ships. Never flown the Harbinger but I've been killed by one.
Honesly, with the rescooping nerf I think they should leave the Myrmidon alone for using 5 Ogre IIs. Maybe they should change its bonus to 10% bonus to drone Thermal Damage, instead of general damage so to limit the damagetypes they can put out.
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Annowyn
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Posted - 2007.10.14 21:50:00 -
[23]
Not that it would matter if they changed to to thermal damage. As your own post implies, anyone flying a myrm with 5 heavies (rofl) is prolly going to be using Ogres (thermal).
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Kuzya Morozov
Gallente Beets and Gravy Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.10.14 22:18:00 -
[24]
Honestly, search up the movie DEFCON1, by RabidOne. His invincible Myrm rips people, I swear just watch the movie. After the nos nerf RabidOne doesn't really use it anymore, it's gotten nerfed enough already.
training skills... :( |
Aramendel
Amarr North Face Force
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Posted - 2007.10.14 22:36:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Laboratus Paper dps for drones is useless. You can't get it except in very specific circumstance...
Paper dps for turrets is with that argument equally useless. Since you will not get it "except in very specific circumstance" either.
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Laboratus
Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.10.14 22:49:00 -
[26]
They can be represented by a simple model a lot easier than drones, so no...
Tbh, the trolling, misquotes, and general villany on this forum is closing that of caod. Maybe time to civil up? ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
Raxlar Kalimar
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Posted - 2007.10.15 00:04:00 -
[27]
OK why nerf the mrym.....
Because ifs a 700 dps+, WTF pwning, EW spamming, Duel rep 1600mm plate, 3*hardener armor tanking killing machine that can eat anything other than a battleship including a few command ships for desert......Yeah that's about it.
I know people who fly the things and call them overpowered. It may as well be a battleship its actually probably better than some battleships especially the ammar ones.
Yeah you can kill its drones but lets face it what Mrym pilot does not have mids full of sensor damps and if your going to yell NOT ME! then that just goes to prove you don't know how to fit a mrym properly in the first place and should not be commenting in this thread.
*/end rant
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Luke Lamarr
Infinitus Morti R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.15 00:04:00 -
[28]
Just a quick reminder: while in a fight, you can not shoot your opponents guns and have them explode. You can however shoot drones.
Flying a myrm and having your drones pop is very annoying, since they are your main source of DPS. The incoming damp and rescoop nerf will imo bring the myrm inline with other BCs, since you will be able to remove the myrm's ability to dish out DPS while in a fight.
I'd seriously prefer to see the damp and rescoop nerf hit TQ alone first, so this way we can check how it really affects the myrm. I still remember the uber javelins nerf that nerfed torps on all stats at the same time and wouldn't like to see the myrm become an 'underused' BC like the jav torps became...
###### <-- Box'o'cookies for the mods #MOD-# #Chow# ######
Yep, I suck at sigs, fix me!
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Rastigan
Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.15 00:59:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Raxlar Kalimar OK why nerf the mrym.....
Because ifs a 700 dps+, WTF pwning, EW spamming, Duel rep 1600mm plate, 3*hardener armor tanking killing machine that can eat anything other than a battleship including a few command ships for desert......Yeah that's about it.
Thats exactly why people want it nerfed, it is obviously the only BC with 12 low slots and 10 med slots to do all of that at once...
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Xequecal
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Posted - 2007.10.15 01:17:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Xequecal on 15/10/2007 01:22:40
Originally by: Luke Lamarr Just a quick reminder: while in a fight, you can not shoot your opponents guns and have them explode. You can however shoot drones.
Flying a myrm and having your drones pop is very annoying, since they are your main source of DPS. The incoming damp and rescoop nerf will imo bring the myrm inline with other BCs, since you will be able to remove the myrm's ability to dish out DPS while in a fight.
I'd seriously prefer to see the damp and rescoop nerf hit TQ alone first, so this way we can check how it really affects the myrm. I still remember the uber javelins nerf that nerfed torps on all stats at the same time and wouldn't like to see the myrm become an 'underused' BC like the jav torps became...
You can't shoot drones while the Myrmidon is in blaster range. Large guns don't track them at all and medium guns generally can't get them far into armor with one volley, after which it will immediately be scooped and spit back out with full shields.
If you are outside of blaster range, that means the Myrmidon is damping you to **** and you can't shoot anything.
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