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[Rev3 - speculations] The vagabond-nerf whining thread

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Gluecksbaerchi Laughing Leprechauns Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.15 10:24:00 - [1] Hi, dunno if it's true or if such a thread exists already, but here we go. Recently some pictures of a new vagabond were posted, showing a nerfed vagabond (fitting-wise) with: 4 turretslots, 2 launcherslots 6 meds 4 lows 0.2 ISK: I do not quite agree the vagabond needs a nerf actually, their counterpart (huginn/rapier) are also very strong. A webbed vaga is a dead vaga. Despite the speed-argument (that's obviously the reason for the 4 lows), the 4turretslot-nerf is way too hard tbh. With 4 slots (for speed that means no damagemods anymore) you actually don't need to 'double-nerf' it. Leave the 5th turretslot as it is. If you want to take some damage away from the vaga, go with the launcher-hardpoint: The 6th highslot leads to everyone fit heavy missile launcher, so every vaga can indeed do damage from ~80kms - that's too much. Just keep the 5th turret-slot and take the 6th highslot away to reduce the damage AND to reduce 'versatility', I mean the ability to hit a target even from outside webrange (for a huginn/rapier, that is), thus forcing the vaga to operate in the usual range (15-20kms).
Sirial Soulfly	Posted - 2007.10.15 10:31:00 - [2] That was a hoax.
Amy Wang	Posted - 2007.10.15 10:31:00 - [3] - vagabond doesnt need a nerf - those pics are obviously fake my 0.02 isk
Magdalena Frost	Posted - 2007.10.15 10:37:00 - [4] Originally by: Sirial Soulfly That was a hoax. I hope so :-)
Gluecksbaerchi Laughing Leprechauns Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.15 10:39:00 - [5] Originally by: Sirial Soulfly That was a hoax. I hope so :-)
Trishan Green Men Incorporated	Posted - 2007.10.15 14:23:00 - [6] Heated webs already nerfed the vaga's dps around 20%.
Sirial Soulfly	Posted - 2007.10.15 14:57:00 - [7] Originally by: Trishan Heated webs already nerfed the vaga's dps around 20%. Huh? how do heated webs nerf the vaga's dps by 20% ?
Gluecksbaerchi Laughing Leprechauns Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.15 15:23:00 - [8] Originally by: Sirial Soulfly Originally by: Trishan Heated webs already nerfed the vaga's dps around 20%. Huh? how do heated webs nerf the vaga's dps by 20% ? Your no-go-area isn't 10km anymore, but 13km (speaking of t1/t2/named webs), thus your orbit is bigger when you rely on the orbit-button and don't look after your victim, thus you operate in a greater fall-off thus your damage is reduced. The 20% is a vague number imho, which has been just thrown in ;)
Icome4u Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.10.15 15:28:00 - [9] It's true vaga's need a good nerf. I had one orbiting me doing something like +10km... sure he went pop after a bit (of help) but ffs it was only t2 fitted... Not normal it goes (much) faster than a INTERCEPTOR... ______ Originally by: Vyger If I lose connection while walking around a station will my avatar run off in a random direction and go hide in a corner?
Gluecksbaerchi Laughing Leprechauns Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.15 15:48:00 - [10] Originally by: Icome4u It's true vaga's need a good nerf. I had one orbiting me doing something like +10km... sure he went pop after a bit (of help) but ffs it was only t2 fitted... Not normal it goes (much) faster than a INTERCEPTOR... Yeah, and he was so totally doing damage at you going 10k :) And, a t2 vaga which gets over 7k has: - high grade snakes - at least 2 x polycarbs and 3 overdrives - is overheating his mwd - gang-bonuses combine at will. I can make you a ceptor that goes 15k, you won't pay for it. So? This guy payed that and still lost, because your gang got huginns/rapier/curse/luck, whatever. I agree a vaga is a pain, there's a reason why most HACs are compared against the performance of a vaga. So what. And for your ceptor-argument: A Malediction with t2 mwd, 2x t2 overdrives and 2 x polycarbs 1 goes 7.8; Again, without gang-bonuses, overheating, imps. Which is faster than a normal vaga ;)
Knocturnal omen. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.15 16:44:00 - [11] I do 10km+ and my pod is more worth the 30vaga:-s F*ck Derek we got Xlop.
MacQueen Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.15 17:40:00 - [12] Originally by: Knocturnal I do 10km+ and my pod is more worth the 30vaga:-s hell yeah wassup snake set buddy o/\o
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.15 17:47:00 - [13] A ship that goes 7k+ (easy), does 450+ dps, 10k shields, speed tanks (which is the best form of tank). Nah, it doesn't need a nerf. Don't hate me, learn to love me
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.10.15 21:05:00 - [14] Originally by: Ferocious FeAr A ship that goes 7k+ (easy), does 450+ dps, 10k shields, speed tanks (which is the best form of tank). Nah, it doesn't need a nerf. 7km... you do no damage going 7km 450 dps? thats WELL within web range, vags do somethign like 180 at a safe 20km 10k shields means no web... two taranis can kill a vaga with no web... ben there done that speed tanks... while doing no damage how about the still effective nano curse, or the nano ishtar,nano sac, nano zealot, nano rail thorax... (nano ishtars are by far the most lethal) a vexor can kill a vaga who gets into his 450 dps range (web range) the vaga is shyte now. no need to nerf it more. hell i dont even bother flying the thing anymore shyte, its a shield tanker, drop one of my low slots on the vaga for another med slot Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Futher Bezluden Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.15 22:11:00 - [15] they were faked, but 6 mids made me lotion up. Howz the damp nerf coming?
Max Mentor	Posted - 2007.10.16 01:15:00 - [16] Originally by: Ferocious FeAr A ship that goes 7k+ (easy), does 450+ dps, 10k shields, speed tanks (which is the best form of tank). Nah, it doesn't need a nerf. I'm sure the MC Vaga that outran our gate camp will appreciate your desire for a nerf (damn Huginn was afk lolzzzzzz)
Broska coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.16 04:05:00 - [17] Originally by: Ferocious FeAr A ship that goes 7k+ (easy), does 450+ dps, 10k shields, speed tanks (which is the best form of tank). Nah, it doesn't need a nerf. For a MC Pilot this is such amazingly stupid post. A properly set up vaga will do between 5.5 and 5.9, With all navigations skills level 5. And will do 475dp on paper (with level 5 skils). Now realisticaly you'll be lucky to get half of that. Due to a) Fighting in fall off, b) Tracking. Shields are more like 8.5-9k with max skills. This is with o'cource 2 poly carbon rigs (good bye 80millions). That and most people have level 4 skills. So in the real world most Vaga's won't even be doing that. The more realistic vaga figures are around 8k shield, 5200m/s, 250-300ish dps.
Temp Boi Gr0und Zer0	Posted - 2007.10.16 05:41:00 - [18] Edited by: Temp Boi on 16/10/2007 05:46:15 Originally by: Gluecksbaerchi Originally by: Icome4u It's true vaga's need a good nerf. I had one orbiting me doing something like +10km... sure he went pop after a bit (of help) but ffs it was only t2 fitted... Not normal it goes (much) faster than a INTERCEPTOR... Yeah, and he was so totally doing damage at you going 10k :) And, a t2 vaga which gets over 7k has: - high grade snakes - at least 2 x polycarbs and 3 overdrives - is overheating his mwd - gang-bonuses combine at will. I can make you a ceptor that goes 15k, you won't pay for it. So? This guy payed that and still lost, because your gang got huginns/rapier/curse/luck, whatever. I agree a vaga is a pain, there's a reason why most HACs are compared against the performance of a vaga. So what. And for your ceptor-argument: A Malediction with t2 mwd, 2x t2 overdrives and 2 x polycarbs 1 goes 7.8; Again, without gang-bonuses, overheating, imps. Which is faster than a normal vaga ;) 7km/s is attainable without any snakes whatsoever. Originally by: Ferocious FeAr A ship that goes 7k+ (easy), does 450+ dps, 10k shields, speed tanks (which is the best form of tank). Nah, it doesn't need a nerf. For christ sakes, Vagabonds do NOT speed tank. Vagabonds SHIELD tank. No semi-competent vagabond pilot will perma-run his MWD while attacking. First of all, you won't hit **** doing 7km/s, Secondly, vagabonds are not cap stable with MWDs on. Vagabonds use their shield hitpoints as a buffer; you kill your opponent before your shield breaks, or you run.
Pure Murder	Posted - 2007.10.16 07:07:00 - [19] *****es. My Cerb doesn't break 3km/s with t2 ODs and polycarbs .
Trishan Green Men Incorporated	Posted - 2007.10.16 08:35:00 - [20] Originally by: Gluecksbaerchi Originally by: Sirial Soulfly Originally by: Trishan Heated webs already nerfed the vaga's dps around 20%. Huh? how do heated webs nerf the vaga's dps by 20% ? <snip> The 20% is a vague number imho, which has been just thrown in ;) No, its not a vague number. The dps reduction is from 17% to 20%, make some numbers if you feel like it :)
Azrael Maxim Flexible Demeanour	Posted - 2007.10.16 09:30:00 - [21] Originally by: Trishan Originally by: Gluecksbaerchi Originally by: Sirial Soulfly Originally by: Trishan Heated webs already nerfed the vaga's dps around 20%. Huh? how do heated webs nerf the vaga's dps by 20% ? <snip> The 20% is a vague number imho, which has been just thrown in ;) No, its not a vague number. The dps reduction is from 17% to 20%, make some numbers if you feel like it :) Actually its a flawed argument, the range you choose to engage someone might reduce the damage you do, but the dps of the vaga is a constant.

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