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b0ing
Sequential Digits
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Posted - 2007.10.17 05:07:00 -
[1]
Two things, both related but capable of being implemented separately. Therefore if you do not like one of these ideas, it does not mean you automatically have to hate the other.
Idea 1: Add ransoming feature to EVE.
Reasoning: A shiny new kill"mail" system is being added to the game very soon. When we kill or are killed, we will not longer get a killmail, but the kill/loss information will be stored in our character sheet. This will be searchable and filterable, and nothing will ever be truncated. It will be a permanent record of our kills and losses, all organized in a visually pleasing, easy-to-read fashion. A player's kills and losses will eventually be able to be AUTO-EXPORTED to a KB of their choice, so as soon as they kill or are killed it will be displayed without them having to copy/paste anything. Very cool!
This new killstat system, however, will further encourage people to kill only for the sake of getting the killstats added to the character sheet. This is not "that" bad of a thing alone, but when one thinks about the affect missing out on a killstat has to a typical pvper's ego, one will see that the idea of "ransoming" someone ceases to be an option in the mind of a typical pirate. And that is sad because piracy/ransoming adds a certain spice to EVE that cannot be found in other games.
But alas! I have an idea! In the killstat page on our charactersheets will be two tabs. "Kills" and "Losses." Why not add a third called "Ransoms?"
How ransoming will work:
A) Pirate sufficiently scares victim by locking him down and damaging his ship to his desire. B) Pirate right clicks on victims portrait and selects "Ransom" C) Box pops up and pirate types in an ISK amount (or a preset value comes up) then presses the "Yarr" (Confirm) button. D) Unless the victim has "Ignore all ransom requests" selected (a new option in the ESC menu), he gets a pop-up stating the ISK amount of the ransom. He can "Accept" or "Reject" it. E) If "Reject," the pirate gets a message saying the victim rejected and can do what he wants. F) If "Accept," the ISK amount is instantly transfered from the victim's wallet to the pirates wallet. Target lock is lost for both victim and pirate and they cannot target each other for 30 seconds. G) A "Ransom" report is added to the "Ransom" tab of both victim and pirate, stating where this occurred, who was involved, ship types, ISK amount, whether the ransom request was accepted or rejected, etc.
Ransoming is a hostile act, so it can't be spammed on unflagged targets in Empire etc. If someone steals from your can in empire and is flagged to you, you may beat the snot out of them then ransom them without concord interfering. Same is true if you are at war with someone. In 0.0 of course you can ransom anyone anywhere with no consequence other than 15min aggression flag, but you'd have that anyways since you are probably shooting/tackling them. In low sec ransoming someone will make the sentries shoot at you, if they are not already.
If you have blocked a player, ransoms from him only are blocked as well. And remember, in the ESC menu you can chose to auto-ignore ALL ransoms.
One thing, this would NOT guarantee you a safe exit. One of the pirates friends could warp scramble you after you agree to the ransom, then kill you. But that is true of how ransoms currently work right now. A smart player will only accept a ransom if he knows the pirates who have him trapped are honorable when it comes to ransoms, or he can request everyone leave the gate and he align to warp BEFORE he accepts the ransom. Smart pirates who want nothing to do with breaking their word will agree, and allow one heavily tanked ship to stay behind to do the actual ransom. Of course, they would also be wise to demand the victim accept the ransom offer very quickly...because he could just be stalling for time so his friends can bail him out...but such is the greatness of the sandbox that is EVE Online.
Continued......
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b0ing
Sequential Digits
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Posted - 2007.10.17 05:09:00 -
[2]
Reserved
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Phantom Slave
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Posted - 2007.10.17 05:18:00 -
[3]
Without even seeing your second suggestion (I'm assuming your reserved post is for that), I have to completely agree with this. I'm not even a pirate, but I think it would be sweet.
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Traches
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Posted - 2007.10.17 06:08:00 -
[4]
I like this idea, but the actual execution would be a bit tricky...
Instead of game mechanics that try to protect the paying ransomee from the ransomer, why not add another column to the ransom tab that shows up under character info: Percentage/number of times that the victim's ship was destroyed within 1 minute of paying the ransom, regardless of who killed them. Basically, make it possible to look up just how honorable someone is before paying them a ransom!
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Artemis Dragmire
Deadspace Armada Lost Children of Eve
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Posted - 2007.10.17 06:56:00 -
[5]
/signed
The ransom part is pure genius, the SoS part is meh, but it could work. I doubt something like that would ever happen though as I can see it being abused.
But I fully endorse the first idea.
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Neon Genesis
The Landed Gentry
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Posted - 2007.10.17 07:12:00 -
[6]
I severely dislike the idea of the loss of lock after ransom has been paid. I don't make a habit of killing people after they've payed, but I definately reserve the right to do so.
_
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest BROTHER'S WORD
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Posted - 2007.10.17 07:21:00 -
[7]
I really like the first suggestion. I think giving a more secure way to ransom people is great. Perhaps, though, instead of forcing the pirate to honor the ransom it should simply put a "dishonored ransoms" stat that is publicly visable on the pirate. If you ransom someone, and kill them anyway, you look bad. The more people you dishonorably kill, the less likely people will be to pay you in the future.
I don't like the whole SoS suggestion. Concord is fine the way it is, it ain't broken, and i don't care about people who accidentally shoot each other. They can pay the price.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Bodwad
Gallente British Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.17 08:08:00 -
[8]
I like the ransoming idea. It would help noobs too who dont know how to pay and give the impression of stalling. When a ransom request is made though does all weapon fire stop or is that dealt with manually by both players? I would suggest the agressor automatically ceases fire to prevent the destruction of the victim before the ransom can be collected.
Would it also be feasable to create an honour rateing for each player (much like the security status) based on ransoming and who honours the 'Ceasefire' etc. It would be a quick way for a player to know their options.
Good idea, with some thought all the niggles could be worked out
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Izo Azlion
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.17 08:11:00 -
[9]
Both ideas are pretty well thought out, however with ransoms, I enjoy the personal touch. They couldnt be a pre-set amount, either. My Ferox got ransomed beginning of YC108 (2006) by 3 ships, I got away for 8million ISK, and the Ferox had Gist B-Type Hardeners and Dread Gurista's Large Booster.
Yeah, I used to win alot from Eve-radio...
But some times the price is what makes it fun. How high can you go without blowing it?
The SoS feature you talked about is - if implementable - better than the current CONCORD system, however it'll be abused, and would need refining.
A ransom menu would be welcome, however it should still rely on trust. Izo Azlion.
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Agif
Templar Republic R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.17 08:13:00 -
[10]
how about instead of 30 seconds as you can always catch back up to them etc is making the victim immune for the aggression countdown with the party involved?
Just a thought ,....
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Ilvan
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Posted - 2007.10.17 08:24:00 -
[11]
I agree with the 30-second lock prevention being bad. Nothing should outright prohibit you from doing something in EVE, it just goes against the essence of the game.
Since the ransom info is already included on the killboard in your idea, I think an appropriate 'penalty' would be simply note on it that the ransom was violated if the ransomer happens to kill the ransomee immediately afterwards.
Other than that it's not bad at all. The SOS system is actually quite clever, since it would greatly reduce the number of accidental deaths (most caused by drone/UI stupidity) while not affecting security (since anyone not doing a mission would likely leave auto-SOS on).
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Melor Rend
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Posted - 2007.10.17 08:33:00 -
[12]
Great idea!
One small addition:
The Pirate should have a statistic in his "Ransom" tab that tells you (the victim) how many previous ransoms the pirate has received and how many of his previous ransom-targets got killed within say 2 minutes after paying the ransom. This way you could see if the pirate is likely to honor the ransom or just kill you anyway. On the other hand it's an extra motivation for the pirate to honor the ransom because he'll get a bad statistic in his bio and then in future people wont be willing to pay anymore.
Cool idea! |
Izo Azlion
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.17 08:43:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Melor Rend Great idea!
One small addition:
The Pirate should have a statistic in his "Ransom" tab that tells you (the victim) how many previous ransoms the pirate has received and how many of his previous ransom-targets got killed within say 2 minutes after paying the ransom. This way you could see if the pirate is likely to honor the ransom or just kill you anyway. On the other hand it's an extra motivation for the pirate to honor the ransom because he'll get a bad statistic in his bio and then in future people wont be willing to pay anymore.
Cool idea!
Well said, I think this would be a great addition.
The use of this would also stop, or lessen, deaths in low sec. Often Pirates will just wtfblow up ships for KB stats. Getting a ransom is kind of like a knife kill in a FPS - Its more challenging, its close, its personal, and its oh so ******* annoying - but it beats being shot to pieces from 160km+
I'll sign for this system. Could we perhaps get a dev response on how possible this is, and what they personally think on it? Piracy needs some sort of niche. It could also tally up how much that person has ransomed.
Izo Azlion.
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Wild Rho
Amarr Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.10.17 08:46:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Wild Rho on 17/10/2007 08:48:40
Originally by: Izo Azlion
Originally by: Melor Rend Great idea!
One small addition:
The Pirate should have a statistic in his "Ransom" tab that tells you (the victim) how many previous ransoms the pirate has received and how many of his previous ransom-targets got killed within say 2 minutes after paying the ransom. This way you could see if the pirate is likely to honor the ransom or just kill you anyway. On the other hand it's an extra motivation for the pirate to honor the ransom because he'll get a bad statistic in his bio and then in future people wont be willing to pay anymore.
Cool idea!
Well said, I think this would be a great addition.
The use of this would also stop, or lessen, deaths in low sec. Often Pirates will just wtfblow up ships for KB stats. Getting a ransom is kind of like a knife kill in a FPS - Its more challenging, its close, its personal, and its oh so ******* annoying - but it beats being shot to pieces from 160km+
I'll sign for this system. Could we perhaps get a dev response on how possible this is, and what they personally think on it? Piracy needs some sort of niche. It could also tally up how much that person has ransomed.
Too easily abused. I can just "ransom" some of my other characters and get a lovely fat ransom "score".
Ransoms are fine as they are, some people will keep their word, others won't. Implementing mechanics that force people to keep their word goes against the cut throat spirit of what Eve is - Freedom (that includes the freedom to by a lying back stabbing *******).
The SOS button is just a crutch for people who are too stupid/lazy to take the fairly simple steps to avoid being attacked in high security space and isn't needed.
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Sari Azlion
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Posted - 2007.10.17 08:58:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Wild Rho Edited by: Wild Rho on 17/10/2007 08:48:40
Originally by: Izo Azlion
Originally by: Melor Rend Great idea!
One small addition:
The Pirate should have a statistic in his "Ransom" tab that tells you (the victim) how many previous ransoms the pirate has received and how many of his previous ransom-targets got killed within say 2 minutes after paying the ransom. This way you could see if the pirate is likely to honor the ransom or just kill you anyway. On the other hand it's an extra motivation for the pirate to honor the ransom because he'll get a bad statistic in his bio and then in future people wont be willing to pay anymore.
Cool idea!
Well said, I think this would be a great addition.
The use of this would also stop, or lessen, deaths in low sec. Often Pirates will just wtfblow up ships for KB stats. Getting a ransom is kind of like a knife kill in a FPS - Its more challenging, its close, its personal, and its oh so ******* annoying - but it beats being shot to pieces from 160km+
I'll sign for this system. Could we perhaps get a dev response on how possible this is, and what they personally think on it? Piracy needs some sort of niche. It could also tally up how much that person has ransomed.
Too easily abused. I can just "ransom" some of my other characters and get a lovely fat ransom "score".
Ransoms are fine as they are, some people will keep their word, others won't. Implementing mechanics that force people to keep their word goes against the cut throat spirit of what Eve is - Freedom (that includes the freedom to by a lying back stabbing *******).
The SOS button is just a crutch for people who are too stupid/lazy to take the fairly simple steps to avoid being attacked in high security space and isn't needed.
Oh I agree. No one said it'd save anyone any less than normal, though, or protect them any more. It just saves Concord coming to everything.
As for the ransom system being abused, I can see your point.
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Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.10.17 09:00:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Wild Rho Ransoms are fine as they are, some people will keep their word, others won't. Implementing mechanics that force people to keep their word goes against the cut throat spirit of what Eve is - Freedom (that includes the freedom to by a lying back stabbing *******).
[Warning. You are about to dishonour a paid ransom, CONCORD don't really give a monkeys at this point, but in order to avoid you being flamed to death on the forums, you'll end up -5.0 to everybody for the next 15 minutes, like when you remote rep a rat.
Are you sure you want to do this?]
[]Disable this warning.
-- Any views or opinions expressed are only the ones I want to ram down your throat. |
Emelia Brighteyes
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Posted - 2007.10.17 09:01:00 -
[17]
Maybe everytime you ransom like 10% of the money disapears to prevent people from ransoming themselves *there alts*.
Otherwise I fully endorse this Idea with my anonymouse forum alt!
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Vaatzes
xtort Rare Faction
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Posted - 2007.10.17 09:11:00 -
[18]
The ransom idea is pretty good, the other one is so-so.
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.17 09:33:00 -
[19]
How about when there is 30 other people shooting that guy? will they lose lock aswell? What if he is in a bubble?
I smell exploits. How about a capital pilot in trouble getting 'ransomed' for 1 ISK by a corpmate causing everyone else to lose lock so he can warp? Brilliant.
Paradox V2.0 is recruiting! |
Sari Azlion
Veto. Logistics Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.17 09:38:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sokratesz How about when there is 30 other people shooting that guy? will they lose lock aswell? What if he is in a bubble?
I smell exploits. How about a capital pilot in trouble getting 'ransomed' for 1 ISK by a corpmate causing everyone else to lose lock so he can warp? Brilliant.
The beauty of ideas is that they can be built on. When man invented the car, you were the ******* that said "Oh so what happens when we turn the engine off, it rolls down the hill? Brilliant."
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Izo Azlion
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.17 09:40:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sari Azlion
Originally by: Sokratesz How about when there is 30 other people shooting that guy? will they lose lock aswell? What if he is in a bubble?
I smell exploits. How about a capital pilot in trouble getting 'ransomed' for 1 ISK by a corpmate causing everyone else to lose lock so he can warp? Brilliant.
The beauty of ideas is that they can be built on. When man invented the car, you were the ******* that said "Oh so what happens when we turn the engine off, it rolls down the hill? Brilliant."
My alt, everyone. -_-'
Izo Azlion.
---
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Verone
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.17 10:16:00 -
[22]
Any form of interface that binds someone to a ransom, or channels their actions so that there is no possiblity for free choice is a bad idea.
If a pirate ransoms a player, it is his choice whether to take the money and let the pilot walk, or to kill him anyway.
I don't endorse killing after ransom, it's the lamest thing ever but it is a choice.
The choices you make define your reputation, and in Eve reputation is all you have.
I have been pirating for as long as I can remember, and it's safe to say that if something like this was implemented it would destroy piracy. It would negate the free will that a pirate has to either stick to his word, or be cutthroat and contradict it.
As for the SOS button in highsec, no thanks. If my friend was to have smart bombs on his navy raven in HIGHSEC EMPIRE, and he hits my drones, he deserves everything he gets for not being in tune with game mechanics.
Risk vs Reward.
Yes Eve Online is a sandbox, and CCP gives you a bucket and spade. Don't ask them to build the sandcastles for you too.
>>> TRIBUTE TO A FALLEN WINGMAN <<<
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2007.10.17 10:29:00 -
[23]
Perhaps killing someone who paid your ransom should flag you to warn other potential victims that you don't honour ransoms. Obviously this would be null and void if they shot at you after paying the ransom.
I could see something attached to the bounty system. If you cheat on a ransom then the victim has a chance to flag you as a ransom cheat for as long as their (min. 100M?) bounty remains on you.
Just thinking out loud while I should be working.
----- Visible Implants - good for so many occasions |
Nicholas Barker
MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2007.10.17 11:00:00 -
[24]
There's a new thread every day about this "New idea", ransoming is all about trust and reputations, get a good rep or get a bad rep, and suffer the conciquinces or gain the rewards. The system should never force you, this is a sand box remember! ---
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b0ing
Sequential Digits
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Posted - 2007.10.17 11:12:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Izo Azlion Both ideas are pretty well thought out, however with ransoms, I enjoy the personal touch. They couldnt be a pre-set amount, either. My Ferox got ransomed beginning of YC108 (2006) by 3 ships, I got away for 8million ISK, and the Ferox had Gist B-Type Hardeners and Dread Gurista's Large Booster.
When I said preset, I meant a value preset by the pirate, for ease of use, if he decides. Much like a "preset" orbit distance.
Originally by: Izo Azlion The SoS feature you talked about is - if implementable - better than the current CONCORD system, however it'll be abused, and would need refining.
How could it be abused? Where it says in the code "Call concord and make them gank player X" it could instead say "Make SoS button flash for player Y. If he presses it (whether automatically or manually), call concord and make them gank player X."
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b0ing
Sequential Digits
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Posted - 2007.10.17 11:23:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Traches
Instead of game mechanics that try to protect the paying ransomee from the ransomer, why not add another column to the ransom tab that shows up under character info: Percentage/number of times that the victim's ship was destroyed within 1 minute of paying the ransom, regardless of who killed them. Basically, make it possible to look up just how honorable someone is before paying them a ransom!
This )or a variation of it) looks like a possible alternative to my original idea. Very good. The only problem (and it is not that big of one, IMO) I see with it is people boosting their ransom stats by ransoming their alt etc.
I think a good counter would be to make 10% or so of the ransom ISK be taken, and make how much ISK each ransom was and the date/time be publicly visible. If someone wants to go out of their way to make their ransom history look better, they can...but at a cost, and it will probably be obvious to those with a keen eye.
All problems solved?
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b0ing
Sequential Digits
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Posted - 2007.10.17 11:26:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Neon Genesis I severely dislike the idea of the loss of lock after ransom has been paid. I don't make a habit of killing people after they've payed, but I definately reserve the right to do so.
This being EVE, you make a very good point IMO. See my post above for a second viable way to implement the ransom feature.
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Daddy Xerox
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Posted - 2007.10.17 11:30:00 -
[28]
The new KM system, or whatever service hosts killboards, will need a very neccessary flag now that 'dropped items' will show on the killmail.
A clicky that says 'recovered' - i.e. the items that dropped were not recovered, recovered &/or destroyed so that the losses/gains can be calculated properly.
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b0ing
Sequential Digits
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Posted - 2007.10.17 11:34:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Sokratesz How about when there is 30 other people shooting that guy? will they lose lock aswell? What if he is in a bubble?
I smell exploits. How about a capital pilot in trouble getting 'ransomed' for 1 ISK by a corpmate causing everyone else to lose lock so he can warp? Brilliant.
As per my original idea, if you read it closely you would see it is implied that the only locks affected are those from the victim to the pirate and the pirate to the victim. Therefore your fear was unfounded. Please point out more flaws or perceived flaws if you find them though. Thank you.
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Elisa Day
Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.10.17 12:04:00 -
[30]
This is a terrible idea, one of the many things that make eve great is the lack of such unneccesary game mechanics that lock in player's actions.
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