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Why publish rules if they don't matter?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Amarr Citizen 2007091000 Eve Corporation 20070532	Posted - 2007.10.17 13:53:00 - [1] For background, see this thread. Shortly after that thread, my character was renamed and I was issued a formal warning under this section of the EULA: 'No player may use the character name of another player to impersonate or falsely represent his or her identity.' Since my character was not misrepresenting anybody else's character name (as confirmed by Wrangler in the thread linked above), I petitioned the warning. The end result, after pointing out the flaws in all the arguments offered by the GMs for the warning was a response to the effect of: "We know what the rules are, it doesn't matter what the EULA says we've made our decision and it stands" Note that this is not a direct quote. I would have been comfortable with the character renaming; however a permanent warning against my account for something the GMs admit is not covered by the EULA seems punitive and unjust. Why bother even publishing an EULA if GMs are going to make decision based on their own whims instead of what it actually says?
Sha4d13	Posted - 2007.10.17 13:59:00 - [2] Strikes me that if you refrain from acting like a prat, you wont get another warning and it is therefore totally irrelevant. Get over it.
Amarr Citizen 2007091000 Eve Corporation 20070532	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:02:00 - [3] Originally by: Sha4d13 Strikes me that if you refrain from acting like a prat, you wont get another warning and it is therefore totally irrelevant. Get over it. The thing is, if I don't know what "acting like a prat" is as defined by the whim of the GMs, then I can hardly take steps to avoid it. When warnings can come out of the blue for things that are by CCP's own admission not covered by the EULA, what can I do?
d1v1n1ty	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:02:00 - [4] I'm confused... Which poster are you from the other thread?
Amarr Citizen 2007091000 Eve Corporation 20070532	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:03:00 - [5] Originally by: d1v1n1ty I'm confused... Which poster are you from the other thread? Top link in the OP. That's what my character info window used to look like (minus the "IMPOSTER" banner).
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:06:00 - [6] Quote: It wouldn't really be impersonation unless there's actually a KILLBOARD CORP character and someone used a character named KILLBOARD C<zero>RP or something like that. Since your name and corp where changed I would assume you would fall under the catogory "something like that". Sucks go be creative and start a new scam instead of crying on the forums like a sad carebear. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:08:00 - [7] Guess what buddy? The GMs and Devs can change your name for any reason they deem fit according to their rules (not just the EULA), or ban you for that matter. You were trying to impersonate not a character name per se, but certainly the identity of an organization that provides an out-of-game service. While they may not have stated it explicitly, they were certainly following the spirit of the rules specified in the EULA. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 million SP in Forum Warfare Originally by: CCP Wrangler Booooo!!! Tarminic sux!!!
Amarr Citizen 2007091000 Eve Corporation 20070532	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:08:00 - [8] Originally by: Shevar Quote: It wouldn't really be impersonation unless there's actually a KILLBOARD CORP character and someone used a character named KILLBOARD C<zero>RP or something like that. Since your name and corp where changed I would assume you would fall under the catogory "something like that". There is no "Killboard Corp" character so the first half of the conditional fails. In other words, you're wrong. Learn to read instead of flaming like a bitter forum *****.
Sha4d13	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:09:00 - [9] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 2007091000 Originally by: Sha4d13 Strikes me that if you refrain from acting like a prat, you wont get another warning and it is therefore totally irrelevant. Get over it. The thing is, if I don't know what "acting like a prat" is as defined by the whim of the GMs, then I can hardly take steps to avoid it. When warnings can come out of the blue for things that are by CCP's own admission not covered by the EULA, what can I do? Most folk manage to avoid warnings. I would suggest that if you refrain from purposely taking a name which suggests you are an outfit which provides out of game services for payment, then it shouldn't be too tricky. This is perhaps the most pathetic, self absorbed, unreasonable whine I have seen on these forums yet. "I tried to pull a stunt, got a warning which means nothing unless I do it again, and ITS NOT FAIR!".
Amarr Citizen 2007091000 Eve Corporation 20070532	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:11:00 - [10] Originally by: Tarminic Guess what buddy? The GMs and Devs can change your name for any reason they deem fit according to their rules (not just the EULA), or ban you for that matter. And I accept that. I just want to know what the rules actually are. A CCP employee posted that I was safe and then a few days later I was slapped with a warning. Does that seem "in the spirit" of fair play? Had the CCP employee in question said that it was so much as questionabel then I would have biomassed the character and moved on.

Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 2007091000 Originally by: Tarminic Guess what buddy? The GMs and Devs can change your name for any reason they deem fit according to their rules (not just the EULA), or ban you for that matter. And I accept that. I just want to know what the rules actually are. A CCP employee posted that I was safe and then a few days later I was slapped with a warning. Does that seem "in the spirit" of fair play? Had the CCP employee in question said that it was so much as questionabel then I would have biomassed the character and moved on. You can ALWAYS contact them directly for clarification. Did you? warp drive active \| nature vraie
Sha4d13	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:12:00 - [12] So what? Unless you were trying to do something dishonest, what possible ill effect does this have on you? NONE.
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:13:00 - [13] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 2007091000 Originally by: Shevar Quote: It wouldn't really be impersonation unless there's actually a KILLBOARD CORP character and someone used a character named KILLBOARD C<zero>RP or something like that. Since your name and corp where changed I would assume you would fall under the catogory "something like that". There is no "Killboard Corp" character so the first half of the conditional fails. In other words, you're wrong. Learn to read instead of flaming like a bitter forum *****. Who's bitter? The guy posting how sad he is that an alt of his got his name changed, or the guy laughing at him? --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Arvald Caldari House of Tempers	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:13:00 - [14] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 2007091000 Originally by: Tarminic Guess what buddy? The GMs and Devs can change your name for any reason they deem fit according to their rules (not just the EULA), or ban you for that matter. And I accept that. I just want to know what the rules actually are. A CCP employee posted that I was safe and then a few days later I was slapped with a warning. Does that seem "in the spirit" of fair play? Had the CCP employee in question said that it was so much as questionabel then I would have biomassed the character and moved on. if your gona play eve you need to get this through your head first thing, its not your damn account, its ccp's and they can do whatever the hell they want to it. hell if they wanted to they could rename you to sissy *****cat nancyboy, and theres not a damn thing you can do about it --------------------------- ALL HAIL TO THE TECHNOVIKING
Amarr Citizen 2007091000 Eve Corporation 20070532	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Sha4d13 "I tried to pull a stunt, got a warning which means nothing unless I do it again, and ITS NOT FAIR!". Which means nothing if I don't do [any of the things that the GMs decide they don't like today] again, not specifically this. When the GMs, recruited from and still playing within the playerbase can simply decide on rules without them being published to the people who actually have to follow them (except of course those players who are GMs), then there is a definite failure in the system.
Amarr Citizen 2007091000 Eve Corporation 20070532	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:15:00 - [16] Originally by: Winterblink You can ALWAYS contact them directly for clarification. Did you? Who is 'them'? If you mean Wrangler, no. If you mean the GMs, yes, as outlined in the OP. I didn't get any clarification beyond 'we make the rules, and we don't answer to you'.
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:16:00 - [17] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 2007091000 Originally by: Sha4d13 "I tried to pull a stunt, got a warning which means nothing unless I do it again, and ITS NOT FAIR!". Which means nothing if I don't do [any of the things that the GMs decide they don't like today] again, not specifically this. When the GMs, recruited from and still playing within the playerbase can simply decide on rules without them being published to the people who actually have to follow them (except of course those players who are GMs), then there is a definite failure in the system. What was your corporation name before it got changed? --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:16:00 - [18] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 2007091000 Originally by: Tarminic Guess what buddy? The GMs and Devs can change your name for any reason they deem fit according to their rules (not just the EULA), or ban you for that matter. And I accept that. I just want to know what the rules actually are. A CCP employee posted that I was safe and then a few days later I was slapped with a warning. Does that seem "in the spirit" of fair play? Had the CCP employee in question said that it was so much as questionabel then I would have biomassed the character and moved on. Ah, ok...well in that case I believe I can clarify. The EULA says, in a nutshell, that you cannot name your character in a way that is done intentionally to fake another character's identity. While you were not impersonating a character and thus not breaking the text of the EULA, you were impersonating an organization, specifically one that provides an important service to many EVE players. This would arguably be worse than impersonating a single player, thus the warning. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 million SP in Forum Warfare Originally by: CCP Wrangler Booooo!!! Tarminic sux!!!
TylerJames Damage Unlimited Inc	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:16:00 - [19] Soooo, how much isk did you make off this?
Sleepkevert Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:18:00 - [20] Edited by: Sleepkevert on 17/10/2007 14:18:15 Originally by: Amarr Citizen 2007091000 snip Do not discuss moderation on the forums, use e-mail instead. -some random dev / ISD person There, fixed your post for ya Sign my sig

Arvald Caldari House of Tempers	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:19:00 - [21] Originally by: TylerJames Soooo, how much isk did you make off this? obviously alot or he would not be here crying --------------------------- ALL HAIL TO THE TECHNOVIKING
ArmyOfMe hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:20:00 - [22] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 2007091000 Had the CCP employee in question said that it was so much as questionabel then I would have biomassed the character and moved on. you shouldnt have made the char in the first place
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:21:00 - [23] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 2007091000 Originally by: Winterblink You can ALWAYS contact them directly for clarification. Did you? Who is 'them'? If you mean Wrangler, no. If you mean the GMs, yes, as outlined in the OP. I didn't get any clarification beyond 'we make the rules, and we don't answer to you'. Did you press the point for clarification? warp drive active \| nature vraie
Amarr Citizen 2007091000 Eve Corporation 20070532	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:22:00 - [24] Originally by: Arvald obviously alot or he would not be here crying It isn't about the isk, it was never about the isk. 25mil is hardly enough to cause a fuss over.
Amarr Citizen 2007091000 Eve Corporation 20070532	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:23:00 - [25] Originally by: ArmyOfMe you shouldnt have made the char in the first place And how was I to know that?
Arvald Caldari House of Tempers	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:25:00 - [26] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 2007091000 Originally by: Arvald obviously alot or he would not be here crying It isn't about the isk, it was never about the isk. 25mil is hardly enough to cause a fuss over. then why are you cryin? --------------------------- ALL HAIL TO THE TECHNOVIKING
Amarr Citizen 2007091000 Eve Corporation 20070532	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:26:00 - [27] Originally by: Winterblink Did you press the point for clarification? I had an exchange of 4 or 5 messages with 3 different GMs, 2 of whom were "senior" GMs. The last message carried the 'We make the rules sucks to be you' clause and the petition was closed without further opportunity for me to respond. In short, yes. The only thing that became clearer as I sought clarification was the futility of trying to reason with our keepers.
Arvald Caldari House of Tempers	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:28:00 - [28] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 2007091000 Originally by: Arvald then why are you cryin? Because I was warned for no appreciable reason? Because after 2.5 years of playing this game my otherwise clean record is tarnished for no reason that I could have foreseen (except if I were a complete cynic)? again its not your account its ccp's they can do whatever the hell they want --------------------------- ALL HAIL TO THE TECHNOVIKING
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:28:00 - [29] Edited by: MotherMoon on 17/10/2007 14:28:59 Originally by: Sha4d13 Edited by: Sha4d13 on 17/10/2007 14:26:25 Please xplain how this has harmed you. I can understand precisely why they would close the petition- as you seem completely immune to reason. what's more important is how the GM handle things when a dev has aproved something. there is a conflict with a player inbetween two people with control over the game. As far as this example goes, a player had his character messed with with no justifaction. how it hurt him and the fact that it's CCP account does not come into play here. if a DEV said the name is ok then the GM should not be able to change it. I bet this isn't clicking with any of you is it. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP need...more room...
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:28:00 - [30] Lesson for today... Dont worry about the literality of the rules because even if you find a loophole, your gonna get banned or your name is gonna get changed. Got it? _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.



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