Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Chen Hao
Amarr Core Contingency
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 19:12:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Chen Hao on 24/10/2007 19:14:37 What's that your side stepping the facts again? You had 3 pages including several setups from me of different ships and reason/facts why we thought lasers and amarr are a great race to fly in pvp.
Yeah thats why most people fit Explo/Therm/Kin actives to their Myrms and triple actives to their BS (and so on). GOOD pvpers dont just put EANMs on anything unfortunately for you. We havent even mentioned the 0% shield tankers start with ffs. Again your not listening.
All well and good saying that T2 Minnie ships have 92.5/70 EM resists but if you had actually been listening to me in my previous thread you'd noticed I mentioned T2 Amarr ships have 90/85 explosive resists to off set that. Whats your point tbh?
OH AND AGAIN. Your not listening. Didn't I show you a tachabaddon fit with quad heatsink and 160km range that perma runs tachs? I think I did. We then proceeded to have an argument over its damage at range, of which was demolished by me. Not to mention how sickening it is at the 50km range.
You also called me a n00b for not fitting an MWD to a fleet sniper, however in the much acclaimed Damige Control videos Damige doesn't fit an MWD to his sniper 'pest, is he a n00b? In the opinions of many I believe the answer to that is no. (I'm not plugging the video I'm just pointing out another of your hideous contradictions)
|
shinsushi
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 19:50:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Chen Hao Edited by: Chen Hao on 24/10/2007 19:33:58 What's that your side stepping the facts again? You had 3 pages including several setups from me of different ships and reason/facts why we thought lasers and amarr are a great race to fly in pvp.
Yeah thats why most people fit Explo/Therm/Kin actives to their Myrms and triple actives to their BS (and so on). GOOD pvpers dont just put EANMs on anything unfortunately for you. We havent even mentioned the 0% shield tankers start with ffs. Again your not listening.
All well and good saying that T2 Minnie ships have 92.5/70 EM resists. If you had actually been listening to me in my previous thread, you'd have noticed I mentioned T2 Amarr ships have 90/85 explosive resists to off set that. Whats your point tbh?
OH AND AGAIN. Your not listening. Didn't I show you a Tachabaddon fit with quad heat sink and 160km range that can perma runs tachs? I think I did. We then proceeded to have an argument over its damage at range, of which was demolished by me. Not to mention how devastating it is at the 50km range.
You also called me a n00b for not fitting an MWD to a fleet sniper, however in the much acclaimed Damige Control videos Damige doesn't fit an MWD to his sniper 'pest, is he a n00b? In the opinions of many I believe the answer to that is no. (I'm not plugging the video I'm just pointing out another of your hideous contradictions)
You also talk about using 4 active hardner's? Did I ever suggest that as a setup? I don't think I did. (I was making the point that you fit plates to a ship with a REPAIR AMOUNT bonus) Yet again a completely random comment. Three active harders (a VERY common fit) uses 6 CPU more than the EANMII x 2 and DCUII fit. I'm all up for the 2xEANM + 1xActive/Membrane 'omnitank' fit on T2 ships, that is a moot point however as you'll actually find EM usually comes out as one of the two lowest resists (or atleast 1%/2% off the mark).
Go look at the ships setup index. Do you know what this combination gives you? Its the rough equivalent of 4 active hardeners. On T2, yes you use 2 EAN IIs and an active, or 2 active and a EAN II, wither way, your looking at 70% plus resists.
Your fleet abaddon setup was a joke, not able to hit out to 160 except for in heavy fall-off due to one tracking mod, with no tank and no MWD. Do you know why people fit MWDs to fleet setups? To escape bubbles. Bubbles don't only occur at gates you know... Oh, and who in their right mind will throw away 60 + mil isk on rigs for a throw away fleet ship, esp when you can do it better or cheaper with another races, or another ship. Who fits 4 Heatsinks anyway? After the third its like throwing a water balloon at a house fire, not very effective. Your fit was absolute crap.
Funny, I can't really think of an amarrian ship that has 90% resists to armor from the get-go. Well, maybe the sac and/or damnation.
You guys harped on the zealot vs vaga. Thats what was 90% of the thread. I was wrong about the vaga doing absolutely everything better than the zealot.
AMARR - Taking it up the butt since 2005 |
Elenath
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 19:58:00 -
[63]
More clueless garbage from the 'Vapid Poster of the Month'
|
Vitaki
Rens 911
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 20:21:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Elenath More clueless garbage from the 'Vapid Poster of the Month'
I'd have to agree, being this willfully ignorant about the inherit weakness of amarr these days is bizarre. Practically every ship is outclassed and the ones that are not have other weird issues. The only really good ship is the Abaddon. I'd like to say the geddon is any good but it's only a short ranged passive plated gank ship.
|
shinsushi
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 20:26:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Vitaki
Originally by: Elenath More clueless garbage from the 'Vapid Poster of the Month'
I'd have to agree, being this willfully ignorant about the inherit weakness of amarr these days is bizarre. Practically every ship is outclassed and the ones that are not have other weird issues. The only really good ship is the Abaddon. I'd like to say the geddon is any good but it's only a short ranged passive plated gank ship.
Me or him??
I make no false pretense that amarr laser boats are f'ed up. The people who do pretty much have proven they don't fly amarr (looking at you chem, lol abaddon fitting) or are stuck in the past.
AMARR - Taking it up the butt since 2005 |
Laboratus
Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 20:29:00 -
[66]
I agree on the topic, but I would much like some content added to the op post... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
shinsushi
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 20:33:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Laboratus I agree on the topic, but I would much like some content added to the op post...
updated
AMARR - Taking it up the butt since 2005 |
Frothgar
Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 00:46:00 -
[68]
/signed.
Lots of stuff needs fixing. Before the new T2 stuff it was somewhat comperable to caldari for PvP, now its a total joke.
|
Chen Hao
Amarr Core Contingency
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 01:45:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Elenath More clueless garbage from the 'Vapid Poster of the Month'
Thanks for your input, very constructive.
Originally by: Vitaki I'd have to agree, being this willfully ignorant about the inherit weakness of Amarr these days is bizarre.
Hey I'm doing pretty well then if im willfully ignorant of how 'nerfed' Amarr are, yet seem to never struggle PVPing a host of enemys with their ships? Anyway I'm getting ****ing bored of this now. I don't actually know why I bothered. I'm going to stick to PVP rather than try and point out some inconsistencies in the Amarr are nerfed arguement.
It's like talking to a brick wall. Bar the fact I don't get insulted, called a troll or a n00b for having a different opinion to the majority of FORUM trawlers (yes thats right your not the only people that play EVE). I don't really know what it would achieve, I hoped I'd get some less ******** comments, I evidently was very wrong lol.
Anyway anyone that wants to prove to me IN GAME that Amarr ships are nerfed are welcome to come on down to our HQ and prove that.(epic l00tz welcome) I'm sure I'll be flamed for that comment but PVP via the forums I hear (I might be wrong?!) is actually impossible.
|
Elenath
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 01:46:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Chen Hao
Originally by: Elenath More clueless garbage from the 'Vapid Poster of the Month'
Thanks for your input, very constructive.
Thanks for your response, even less constructive.
|
|
shinsushi
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 01:47:00 -
[71]
Edited by: shinsushi on 25/10/2007 01:47:58
Originally by: Chen Hao
Originally by: Elenath More clueless garbage from the 'Vapid Poster of the Month'
Thanks for your input, very constructive.
Originally by: Vitaki I'd have to agree, being this willfully ignorant about the inherit weakness of Amarr these days is bizarre.
Hey I'm doing pretty well then if im willfully ignorant of how 'nerfed' Amarr are, yet seem to never struggle PVPing a host of enemys with their ships? Anyway I'm getting ****ing bored of this now. I don't actually know why I bothered. I'm going to stick to PVP rather than try and point out some inconsistencies in the Amarr are nerfed arguement.
It's like talking to a brick wall. Bar the fact I don't get insulted, called a troll or a n00b for having a different opinion to the majority of FORUM trawlers (yes thats right your not the only people that play EVE). I don't really know what it would achieve, I hoped I'd get some less ******** comments, I evidently was very wrong lol.
Anyway anyone that wants to prove to me IN GAME that Amarr ships are nerfed are welcome to come on down to our HQ and prove that.(epic l00tz welcome) I'm sure I'll be flamed for that comment but PVP via the forums I hear (I might be wrong?!) is actually impossible.
I think I am gonna go with the guy from Tri, and the players (see dev blogs), and the amounts of posts, and the proof, and say amarr lazor boats suck.
You gonna stay gone this time?
AMARR - Taking it up the butt since 2005 |
Orbitis
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 03:26:00 -
[72]
I used to be in a all Jenquai guild in EnB where all the members left when the game died and made all amarrian characters in eve.I heard all the complaints about amarrian characters for the past 4yrs or so (even though i made one myself). One suggestion that preety much everyone agreed on was increase base capacitor recharge rate by 10% on all ammarian ships and give like 3% Energy Turrent damage bonus to there tanking ships and 5% Powergrid Increase in there Ganking ships.Even though I am a complete noob in this game those are exactly all the problems i am facing in those kind of ships. My Profile |
Lord Starwolf
Caldari Kodan Armada
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 04:27:00 -
[73]
How long is CCP going to let this go on? They have acknoledged amarr needs "oomph" and the apoc needs a "role". So they go ahead and make a t2 version of the apoc just as worthless as the t1? I'm so sick of this. Years of waiting, nothing done (khanid changes aside). At least make it a torp boat or give it something along the lines of the nightmare's bonuses. I grow weary of waiting for this.
|
Rialtor
Amarr Yarrrateers Mass Destruction.
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 06:07:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Lord Starwolf How long is CCP going to let this go on? They have acknoledged amarr needs "oomph" and the apoc needs a "role". So they go ahead and make a t2 version of the apoc just as worthless as the t1? I'm so sick of this. Years of waiting, nothing done (khanid changes aside). At least make it a torp boat or give it something along the lines of the nightmare's bonuses. I grow weary of waiting for this.
I guess CCP's official policy is something to the tune of "Let them eat cake"
---- sig ----
He who pays the piper, picks the tune |
Tar Kara
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 06:26:00 -
[75]
Amar's R.I.P no chope for You from CCP
|
Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 09:27:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Tar Kara Amar's R.I.P no chope for You from CCP
Yeah, chope is bad for you, avoid it.
Who's Amar?
...but seriously, some Amarr ships need love. There are some great ships in there, but all too many that are just the same laser gunboat, done over again. Too little choice and variability. The new Khanid MkII stuff was a step in the right direction, and made some previously-sad ships like the Sacrilege rock. We need more of that stuff.
Especially the battleships look a bit wonky, there are basically 3 variants of the armor + lasers theme. Yawn. Sure, other races have some weirdnesses too (Gallente have Mega and Hyp which are basically the same ship), but Amarr have a lot of that stuff.
It's sad to see the rev3 Amarr marauder be yet another (ta da!) armor-tanking laser boat. Yawn, again.
I think people exaggerate the current Amarr problems a bit, but otoh I think there are some real problems in there. Too many ships trying to share identical roles, problem with the "laser cap use" mandatory bonus robbing the Amarr of an intersting extra bonus on all too many ships, etc.
|
Ynos Fukse
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 09:39:00 -
[77]
Originally by: shinsushi Edited by: shinsushi on 24/10/2007 20:32:40
Wait, what is it amarr are best at again?
they are good for sell. Sell the char and buy a minmatar one.
|
shinsushi
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 01:35:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Tar Kara Amar's R.I.P no chope for You from CCP
Yeah, chope is bad for you, avoid it.
Who's Amar?
...but seriously, some Amarr ships need love. There are some great ships in there, but all too many that are just the same laser gunboat, done over again. Too little choice and variability. The new Khanid MkII stuff was a step in the right direction, and made some previously-sad ships like the Sacrilege rock. We need more of that stuff.
Especially the battleships look a bit wonky, there are basically 3 variants of the armor + lasers theme. Yawn. Sure, other races have some weirdnesses too (Gallente have Mega and Hyp which are basically the same ship), but Amarr have a lot of that stuff.
It's sad to see the rev3 Amarr marauder be yet another (ta da!) armor-tanking laser boat. Yawn, again.
I think people exaggerate the current Amarr problems a bit, but otoh I think there are some real problems in there. Too many ships trying to share identical roles, problem with the "laser cap use" mandatory bonus robbing the Amarr of an intersting extra bonus on all too many ships, etc.
I don't think the problems are really exaggerated, just that people focus on the wrong things. Instead of looking at the effect and curing it (like people do now), we should be looking for the root causes and trying to fix that.
No one has a problem with the abaddon, the armageddon, and the harbinger, just the rest of the laser-boats. I think that points to too problems. Lasers are underpowered, and the above ships are overpowered thus hiding the problems. Balance both and amrr should be fine.
AMARR - Taking it up the butt since 2005 |
Tortilla Smasher
SpearMint Rhino GentleMen's Club Carpe Diem.
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 04:41:00 -
[79]
Amarr should get an allowance, because our only decent ships are bships/expensive tech 2s or caps.
|
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 12:16:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Tortilla Smasher Amarr should get an allowance, because our only decent ships are bships/expensive tech 2s or caps.
We kinda do, our ships mostly cost a bit less then other races. But id rather pay more and get an equally good ship instead.
|
|
shinsushi
|
Posted - 2007.10.30 17:24:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Tortilla Smasher Amarr should get an allowance, because our only decent ships are bships/expensive tech 2s or caps.
We kinda do, our ships mostly cost a bit less then other races. But id rather pay more and get an equally good ship instead.
I always thought that was a very good way to tell which ships are either overpowered, underpowered or balanced. Always seems like the market very accurately reflects which ships/modules are worth it and which ones are not.
|
Dzajic
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.10.30 18:18:00 -
[82]
First, Ammar must realize that having coolest and prettiest ships must have a trade off.
Cut laser cap usage by 50 or 60%, remove the cap usage bonus from ships. This removes the need for skills at 5 just to be able to hold cap for 30sec.
Cut overall laser damage by 15-20% (very carefully choose exact numbers) depending on the exact type of laser (small/med/large beam/pulse). Ships which had cap usage bonus now get single or combination of normal bonuses like optimal, ROF or damage. This prevents other races from using lasers at full power.
Carefully identify weak and underpowered ships and moderately increase CPU and grid. At maximum add a mid or low to some ships. Or change one slot's type. I think completely redoing ships bonuses and setup would be to difficult to balance.
Well, dear Ammar ladies and gentleman?
|
Madla Mafia
The Dead Man's Hand
|
Posted - 2007.10.30 22:35:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Dzajic First, Ammar must realize that having coolest and prettiest ships must have a trade off.
Cut laser cap usage by 50 or 60%, remove the cap usage bonus from ships. This removes the need for skills at 5 just to be able to hold cap for 30sec.
Cut overall laser damage by 15-20% (very carefully choose exact numbers) depending on the exact type of laser (small/med/large beam/pulse). Ships which had cap usage bonus now get single or combination of normal bonuses like optimal, ROF or damage. This prevents other races from using lasers at full power.
Carefully identify weak and underpowered ships and moderately increase CPU and grid. At maximum add a mid or low to some ships. Or change one slot's type. I think completely redoing ships bonuses and setup would be to difficult to balance.
Well, dear Ammar ladies and gentleman?
I might not agree with all of his points, but his main point that SOMETHING needs to be done. Oh definitely. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amarr - getting screwed since 2005. |
shinsushi
|
Posted - 2007.10.30 23:10:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Dzajic First, Ammar must realize that having coolest and prettiest ships must have a trade off.
Cut laser cap usage by 50 or 60%, remove the cap usage bonus from ships. This removes the need for skills at 5 just to be able to hold cap for 30sec.
Cut overall laser damage by 15-20% (very carefully choose exact numbers) depending on the exact type of laser (small/med/large beam/pulse). Ships which had cap usage bonus now get single or combination of normal bonuses like optimal, ROF or damage. This prevents other races from using lasers at full power.
Carefully identify weak and underpowered ships and moderately increase CPU and grid. At maximum add a mid or low to some ships. Or change one slot's type. I think completely redoing ships bonuses and setup would be to difficult to balance.
Well, dear Ammar ladies and gentleman?
Part of the problem is, that if you decrease cap consumption, then everyone in the world gains the advantage of medium range guns, or so CCP would say.
I actually kind of agree with you though, just not the damage reduction part. Well I posted a long drawn out thread about how I would like lasers changed before, it became a flame fest and I killed it.
The basic setiment of the forums is this, geddon is fine, abaddon is fine, work with the other ships.
Mine is, lasers a f-ed up, and since the armageddon, abaddon and harbinger work right, they hide the problem.
I guess its two paths to the same end. ☺☻☺☻☺ SO how do you get me to stop posting? Bump this thread Until devs answer |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
|
Posted - 2007.10.30 23:28:00 -
[85]
Originally by: shinsushi
Originally by: Dzajic First, Ammar must realize that having coolest and prettiest ships must have a trade off.
Cut laser cap usage by 50 or 60%, remove the cap usage bonus from ships. This removes the need for skills at 5 just to be able to hold cap for 30sec.
Cut overall laser damage by 15-20% (very carefully choose exact numbers) depending on the exact type of laser (small/med/large beam/pulse). Ships which had cap usage bonus now get single or combination of normal bonuses like optimal, ROF or damage. This prevents other races from using lasers at full power.
Carefully identify weak and underpowered ships and moderately increase CPU and grid. At maximum add a mid or low to some ships. Or change one slot's type. I think completely redoing ships bonuses and setup would be to difficult to balance.
Well, dear Ammar ladies and gentleman?
Part of the problem is, that if you decrease cap consumption, then everyone in the world gains the advantage of medium range guns, or so CCP would say.
I actually kind of agree with you though, just not the damage reduction part. Well I posted a long drawn out thread about how I would like lasers changed before, it became a flame fest and I killed it.
The basic setiment of the forums is this, geddon is fine, abaddon is fine, work with the other ships.
Mine is, lasers a f-ed up, and since the armageddon, abaddon and harbinger work right, they hide the problem.
I guess its two paths to the same end.
The problem is that those 3 ships are overpowered inherently if you would remove 3xeanm tanking, add the old non heat sink stacks and reduced armor hp again.
To put it short: Abaddon has tank+gank with 8 turret points bonus, armageddon has a rof bonus wich is extremly powerful and harbinger has 7 turrets and gank bonus. All these 3 are very extreme compared to the other amarr gunships. They are fine because in a way they are overpowered but arent because today lasers are not as powerful as they used to be.
This is also why many point at these ships and say amarr are fine. They are not. Abaddon and harbinger were created AFTER all these patches basically and there for tested and adjusted to perform balanced to other ships. The armageddon was already overpowered from the start by having a rof bonus on already bonused lasers. This is why these 3 ships are balanced today BUT the rest of the gunsships arent.
CCP needs to do a total revamp of the amarr gunships to fix this. Its alot of work and they simply ignore it now because its too much work. Well imo they should have thought about that before and IN TIME. Boost lasers by fair amount and adjust those 3 ships so they keep their performance as it is today.
|
shinsushi
|
Posted - 2007.10.31 17:44:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer ...
The problem is that those 3 ships are overpowered inherently if you would remove 3xeanm tanking, add the old non heat sink stacks and reduced armor hp again.
To put it short: Abaddon has tank+gank with 8 turret points bonus, armageddon has a rof bonus wich is extremly powerful and harbinger has 7 turrets and gank bonus. All these 3 are very extreme compared to the other amarr gunships. They are fine because in a way they are overpowered but arent because today lasers are not as powerful as they used to be.
This is also why many point at these ships and say amarr are fine. They are not. Abaddon and harbinger were created AFTER all these patches basically and there for tested and adjusted to perform balanced to other ships. The armageddon was already overpowered from the start by having a rof bonus on already bonused lasers. This is why these 3 ships are balanced today BUT the rest of the gunsships arent.
CCP needs to do a total revamp of the amarr gunships to fix this. Its alot of work and they simply ignore it now because its too much work. Well imo they should have thought about that before and IN TIME. Boost lasers by fair amount and adjust those 3 ships so they keep their performance as it is today.
I mostly agree with you, but not totally because of an exception. As we can see from the geddon, abaddon and the harbinger, they all have class/teir-leading turret hardpoints, and that combined with the dmg/rof bonus makes them competitive. Now look at the omen, it has 1 less turret than most of the other ships in its class, leading to its demise in obscurity amongst a sea of better cruisers, the zealot suffers from this and loosing the 15m3 drone bay (wtf??).
The maller suffers from being a half-breed between the apoc and abaddon, leading to a good tank(abaddon) and lol dmg(apoc). The punisher is its little brother, and the prophecy is its big brother. As you can see the whole family line has issues. ☺☻☺☻☺ SO how do you get me to stop posting? Bump this thread Until devs answer |
shinsushi
|
Posted - 2007.11.01 09:35:00 -
[87]
bump ☺☻☺☻☺ SO how do you get me to stop posting? Bump this thread Until devs answer |
Ogdru Jahad
Amarr War Dawgs
|
Posted - 2007.11.01 10:33:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Darcconis So, what about the Abaddon? I was considering jumping into one for L4s. I have to get out of this Drake. Nice little ship put it takes a while to get through them.
me and a friend do missions together. i do around 1800 wrecking shots in my abaddon. -
At last the Gallente can finally lay claim to saying... "my DICtor" is bigger than yours.
|
Madla Mafia
The Dead Man's Hand
|
Posted - 2007.11.01 13:41:00 -
[89]
Originally by: shinsushi bump
I'm on it! -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amarr - getting screwed since 2005. |
shinsushi
|
Posted - 2007.11.01 18:47:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Madla Mafia
Originally by: shinsushi bump
I'm on it!
Thanks ☺☻☺☻☺ SO how do you get me to stop posting? Bump this thread Until devs answer |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |