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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.30 10:09:00 -
[211]
Edited by: Akita T on 30/10/2007 10:10:23
Originally by: FT Diomedes The price of these ships looks to be about 500 million - once people have produced enough of them to fill the initial run on them. So, they will be affordable by experienced Level 4 mission runners or 0.0 ratters.
Actually, no... right now, at current market prices, it costs, at best, 700-750 mil ISK on average to invent and build one.
That assumes no huge extra spike in datacore, decryptor, T1 BPCs and T2 component prices, perfect skills (all L5 invention related) and a perfectly average run of invention (not too many failures in a row). So, considering one has to plan for the days when you also fail a few invention tries in a row, assuming all related prices might go up a bit, and the fact inventors and manufacturers also want a certain small profit for themselves too, you should consider yourself extremely lucky if you can find one marauder at 800 mil ISK.
And yes, that's 800 mil ISK "AFTER the initial run on them", when they'll be selling at 1.5 bil or probably even higher.
Now, ask yourself this... why bother with a 800+ mil ISK Golem, when you can fly a 650 mil CNR instead ?!? _
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Gozmoth
Amarr Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.30 10:43:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Akita T Now, ask yourself this... why bother with a 800+ mil ISK Golem, when you can fly a 650 mil CNR instead ?!?
Or 80M for a raven ?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.30 11:04:00 -
[213]
Or that If you spend a shedload of ISK for something, you expect it to be better at what you want it to be. Or else, you know, you don't buy it. _
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J Valkor
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.10.30 14:02:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Akita T Or that If you spend a shedload of ISK for something, you expect it to be better at what you want it to be. Or else, you know, you don't buy it.
With a proper build, yes. I cannot loot or salvage while running a mission in a CNR, or even a Raven. I know players like to jack off over run times, but loot brings a lot of extra money to the table. Shooting faction torps (only half the ammo requirements and torps need to be hit by 2 defenders to take down) to 50k with a single TP, AB, five slot tank, and rigs devoted to missile range.
****, I sort of want one now.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.30 14:47:00 -
[215]
Edited by: Akita T on 30/10/2007 14:50:08 Well, good luck fiting it with siege, AB and ANY tank if you plan on using missile speed rigs. Have you looked at PG/CPU ?
Oh, and right now, missile range (speed/flighttime) rigs are broken (again) for rockets/HAMs/torps on SiSI _
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Solid Trust
Minmatar Haven Front
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Posted - 2007.10.30 15:00:00 -
[216]
The golem is going to suck badly for one reason and that is NPC defender missiles. Defender missiles already take out a good number of your cruise missiles. When you are only shooting four of them you will probably hit one time for every volley against certain NPC BS's.
As for CNR being overpowered, it has the worst DPS of out all the other faction ships. What gives it the advantage (missiles) is also what makes it the least favorite PVP BS. The only thing the CNR really has over the Raven is one extra missile slot. You take that away and you are back to a raven.
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Daelin Blackleaf
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.10.30 15:05:00 -
[217]
I put forth something you might enjoy a peek at, if for no other reason than to take the mickey.
Marauder mkII
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.30 16:04:00 -
[218]
Originally by: J Valkor
Originally by: Akita T Or that If you spend a shedload of ISK for something, you expect it to be better at what you want it to be. Or else, you know, you don't buy it.
With a proper build, yes. I cannot loot or salvage while running a mission in a CNR, or even a Raven. I know players like to jack off over run times, but loot brings a lot of extra money to the table. Shooting faction torps (only half the ammo requirements and torps need to be hit by 2 defenders to take down) to 50k with a single TP, AB, five slot tank, and rigs devoted to missile range.
****, I sort of want one now.
Tbh you won't be able to loot or salvage L4s in a Marauder either. 1 Tractor and 2 Salvagers without tackles is crap to begin with, you probably wont have the cap to spare while in the thick of combat either, not to mention that when you concentrate on fighting you wont be able to concentrate on looting very much. (Unless you have an AFK fighting fit, but I hope CCP didn't design these ships for the AFK crowd...) Personally I will leave wrecks still turned off on the overview and come back in my salvage cane even when flying a Marauder. The only thing I might do is fit 3 tractors to gather the BS wrecks all in one place. But then again I might need NOS in highs since I can fit only 2 CCCs rather than 3 (or 0 rather than 1 in case of the Golem, my CNR has 2 missile velo rigs and so would my Golem).
The loot/salvage while fighting is really only useful for 0.0 PvE (ratting and plexes), not so much for L4 missions.
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
J Valkor
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.10.30 16:58:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 30/10/2007 14:50:08 Well, good luck fiting it with siege, AB and ANY tank if you plan on using missile speed rigs. Have you looked at PG/CPU ?
Oh, and right now, missile range (speed/flighttime) rigs are broken (again) for rockets/HAMs/torps on SiSI
The Golem has more CPU than a Raven (715 vs. 700 according to database) and though it does have less powergrid, it also needs to fit two less guns then a normal raven.
As for the rigs, them being broken is not the fault of the Maurader.
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2007.10.30 21:15:00 -
[220]
to use these ships to salvage in mission is not a real option... just go back grab your favoured nano/cargo bs equipped with 8 salvagers/beams and run back... it will be way way faster than to use the ones of marauder...
only scenario when this can be helpfull is for ratting
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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Daelin Blackleaf
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.10.31 04:33:00 -
[221]
This is true. I find even using a Dominix with salv and tractor highs (for those times you really can't be bothered applying any personal effort) it simply isn't fast enough compared to a Salvage Tackle rigged MWD Hurricane.
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.10.31 08:06:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Ath Amon to use these ships to salvage in mission is not a real option... just go back grab your favoured nano/cargo bs equipped with 8 salvagers/beams and run back... it will be way way faster than to use the ones of marauder...
only scenario when this can be helpfull is for ratting
Oh ofc it's option if you are chaining them in CNR. Rats die so fast that wreks sit in nice tight clusters. With 40km and 1000 m/s tractors you can loot all level 4 missions what are currently worth looting isk/h wise without moving an inch (not all lev 4 missions are worth looting/salvaging) slightly faster than you can currently in salvage fitted destroyer/interdictor. Those with 80 km between wreks or crap loot/salvage (like gurista) are not worth looting isk/h wise currently and will not be so with marauders either (if your running speed is high enough, and it is in faction fitted CNR).
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.31 13:23:00 -
[223]
The thing is that at least for me the real money is in the salvage, the loot is just a small extra. And the Marauders WILL suck at salvaging compared to a rigged salvagecane. The only useful application for tractor beams on Marauders are missions against EoM, rogue drones and mercs, and maybe structures that drop good loot. Most missions are against pirates that have **** for loot though, but some of them offer decent salvage. And there a lootboat is still better even after the Marauders. For example in Amarr missions, you will do better in Abaddon and Hurricane than in the current Paladin. And this is why all the Marauders should do the same or more DPS than the best damage T1 battleship.
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.31 18:06:00 -
[224]
I'm starting to believe this isn't just an oversight, but actually they're intentionally made worse... _
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2007.10.31 22:16:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Akita T I'm starting to believe this isn't just an oversight, but actually they're intentionally made worse...
the truth is that marauders are time/isk sinks that devs are sneakily implementing... but we caught them!
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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Sylper Illysten
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Posted - 2007.11.01 00:29:00 -
[226]
After the resonding Dev response to the carrier nerf threads, does anyone else find the complete lack of Dev response to the Marauder concern threads to be just another slap in the face to mission runners?
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.11.01 07:26:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Sylper Illysten After the resonding Dev response to the carrier nerf threads, does anyone else find the complete lack of Dev response to the Marauder concern threads to be just another slap in the face to mission runners?
Not really. They propably intended it that way and are quite content with current stats on them. They are good pvp boats and very good tanks. Damage wise well ... not so stellar but I have feeling they really did not want to make missionrunning any faster than it's already is.
It's already quite hard to balance missions so that they would be doable with all battleship class vessels and you would not run out of targets 50km before next gate even in good ship with good skills (it actually happens in some missions still if you are riding pimped raven).
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Dubious Drewski
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Posted - 2007.11.01 08:02:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad
Originally by: d026
Even the fact that the CNR is out of line makes the Golem pointles because it is still preferable to get CNR instead of a Golem.
You heard the man. Nerf the CNR!
That.
As said, the ibalanced ship here is the CNR.
Saying an advanced ship needs a buff to be inline with an earlier ship which is a bit imbalanced with all other ships in the same niche is a bit silly.
The CNR has 10% more tank and 13% more gank than a T1 raven, but it costs 700mill. I don't think the CNR needs a nerf, thankyouverymuch.
Originally by: Slayton Ford a Drake is normally primaried last
And that's why I love that homely boat! |
Futureface01
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.11.01 09:01:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Sylper Illysten After the resonding Dev response to the carrier nerf threads, does anyone else find the complete lack of Dev response to the Marauder concern threads to be just another slap in the face to mission runners?
In a post by Wrangler he basically said if they cave to community pressure they make it look like whining gets results. And if they ignore the community it looks like they dont listen.
So yeah. The two most frequently occuring threads for a while was "whaaa my carrier" and "Fix these Marauders!". I think they strategically made the decision to leave the marauders underbalanced since they undid the carrier nerf. State of the Golem Oct 25, 2007 |
Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.01 10:27:00 -
[230]
Originally by: Carniflex Not really. They propably intended it that way and are quite content with current stats on them. They are good pvp boats and very good tanks. Damage wise well ... not so stellar but I have feeling they really did not want to make missionrunning any faster than it's already is.
Then please explain to me the brilliance of the Kronos compared to the suckiness of the other three...
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
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IceCreamMonster
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Posted - 2007.11.01 16:58:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: Carniflex Not really. They propably intended it that way and are quite content with current stats on them. They are good pvp boats and very good tanks. Damage wise well ... not so stellar but I have feeling they really did not want to make missionrunning any faster than it's already is.
Then please explain to me the brilliance of the Kronos compared to the suckiness of the other three...
Because Kronos was a titan. Paladin, Golem or Varlgur's got nothing on a titan.
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Sylper Illysten
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Posted - 2007.11.02 00:19:00 -
[232]
Edited by: Sylper Illysten on 02/11/2007 00:19:39
Originally by: Carniflex Not really. They propably intended it that way and are quite content with current stats on them. They are good pvp boats and very good tanks. Damage wise well ... not so stellar but I have feeling they really did not want to make missionrunning any faster than it's already is.
It's already quite hard to balance missions so that they would be doable with all battleship class vessels and you would not run out of targets 50km before next gate even in good ship with good skills (it actually happens in some missions still if you are riding pimped raven).
So why sell the Marauders as what the mission runners want when thy're essentially a downgrade? I'm beginnning to onc more come to the realisation that mission runners are detested by the Dev team.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.11.02 04:16:00 -
[233]
Heh, guess what... they nerfed (ever so slightly) the Kronos... 75m bandwidth, down from 125m. _
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.11.02 19:27:00 -
[234]
Hokay, so they gave the Paladin a damage bonus instead of the tracking bonus, HOORAY it will finally be better as an Abaddon ! Kronos slightly de-powered, check.
Now... what about Golem and Vargur ? _
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