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Kumq uat
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
91
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Posted - 2012.01.26 05:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am glad you got around to looking at AF's CCP. I really am. I really think you need to reconsider the class bonus they now have. An AB bonus just makes so much more sense than making them a more heavily armed interceptor. An AB bonus would give some variety to the trend of MWD ON EVERYTHING that is the mindset of most people. I for instance love getting in my AF with a burner and halo implants and the MWD bonus just makes me kinda meh. I am also not sure just how well a blaster ship can track with that MWD cranking it around taking it way out of range.
If you could reconsider this I would be most thankful.
PS. Your extra bonus to the Ishkur was laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame. |
Khrage
90
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Posted - 2012.01.26 06:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
cry some more. |
St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
422
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Posted - 2012.01.26 06:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
We've been over this GêP times already. |
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.01.26 06:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Khrage wrote:cry some more.
Cry some more about him crying. |
Elessa Enaka
State War Academy Caldari State
51
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Posted - 2012.01.26 06:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kumq uat wrote:I am glad you got around to looking at AF's CCP. I really am. I really think you need to reconsider the class bonus they now have. An AB bonus just makes so much more sense than making them a more heavily armed interceptor. An AB bonus would give some variety to the trend of MWD ON EVERYTHING that is the mindset of most people. I for instance love getting in my AF with a burner and halo implants and the MWD bonus just makes me kinda meh. I am also not sure just how well a blaster ship can track with that MWD cranking it around taking it way out of range.
If you could reconsider this I would be most thankful.
PS. Your extra bonus to the Ishkur was laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame.
Yeah, I took my Wolf out tonight for the first time since the patch and I have to say that I agree with you about an AB being a better choice.
I tried it with a MWD and it just didn't feel right, replaced the MWD with an AB and it felt like home.
Please at least consider it CCP. Devour to survive, so it is, so it's always been Eve is a great game if you can get past all of the asshats.... |
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
743
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Posted - 2012.01.26 06:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
You don't have to use a mwd on them. Besides, If someone puts a scramble on you, it's completely useless. |
Caldari 5
The Element Syndicate
1
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Posted - 2012.01.26 06:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
MWD bonus is useless for me, I use my Retribution to help new players with L1s and L2s etc, and MWDs can't be used in mission space. So an AB Bonus would suit me allot more.
Also agree with the fact that giving it a MWD bonus steps on the toes of the interceptors. |
Hecatonis
Ascension Manufacturing
49
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Posted - 2012.01.26 06:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
i also have to agree, have an afterburner bonus would help add diversity to the game. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
353
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Posted - 2012.01.26 07:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
MWD bonus really steps on the toes of combat ceptors (Claw, Taranis, Crusader, Crow), which don't get point range bonuses, and are somewhat slower than their tackle ceptor counterparts. Combat ceptors are now the class that most need a look-see.
However, an AB bonus would not have been a solution, as was demonstrated in the past when CCP tried it on SiSi a couple of years ago. It resulted in grossly overpowered AFs.
CCP and CSM discussed doing an AB buff (trying again) but decided against it because while in theory it sounds like a cool idea, in practice it is nigh-impossible to balance: it will either be too little (and thus an insignificant AF buff) or too much (and thus make AFs completely broken).
The MWD bonus lets you do what combat ceptors are built for doing: charge (somewhat) directly at bigger enemies without taking much damage on your flight in, then play the role of heavy tackle + DPS from up close, getting under their guns if possible. Because they are so heavy and sport small guns, though, AFs can forgo the MWD for an AB instead, and become the ultimate frigate-sized slugger ships, while retaining decent DPS. Both roles work well, but require drastically different fits.
And again, for emphasis: You don't have to fit a MWD. |
St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
422
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Posted - 2012.01.26 07:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Caldari 5 wrote:MWD bonus is useless for me, I use my Retribution to help new players with L1s and L2s etc, and MWDs can't be used in mission space. So an AB Bonus would suit me allot more.
Also agree with the fact that giving it a MWD bonus steps on the toes of the interceptors. They changed (almost all) missions to allow MWD in them months ago already :P |
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
354
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Posted - 2012.01.26 07:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
St Mio wrote:Caldari 5 wrote:MWD bonus is useless for me, I use my Retribution to help new players with L1s and L2s etc, and MWDs can't be used in mission space. So an AB Bonus would suit me allot more.
Also agree with the fact that giving it a MWD bonus steps on the toes of the interceptors. They changed (almost all) missions to allow MWD in them months ago already :P Some newbie missions still don't. |
Hecatonis
Ascension Manufacturing
49
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Posted - 2012.01.26 07:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:MWD bonus really steps on the toes of combat ceptors (Claw, Taranis, Crusader, Crow), which don't get point range bonuses, and are somewhat slower than their tackle ceptor counterparts. Combat ceptors are now the class that most need a look-see.
However, an AB bonus would not have been a solution, as was demonstrated in the past when CCP tried it on SiSi a couple of years ago. It resulted in grossly overpowered AFs.
CCP and CSM discussed doing an AB buff (trying again) but decided against it because while in theory it sounds like a cool idea, in practice it is nigh-impossible to balance: it will either be too little (and thus an insignificant AF buff) or too much (and thus make AFs completely broken).
The MWD bonus lets you do what combat ceptors are built for doing: charge (somewhat) directly at bigger enemies without taking much damage on your flight in, then play the role of heavy tackle + DPS from up close, getting under their guns if possible. Because they are so heavy and sport small guns, though, AFs can forgo the MWD for an AB instead, and become the ultimate frigate-sized slugger ships, while retaining decent DPS. Both roles work well, but require drastically different fits.
And again, for emphasis: You don't have to fit a MWD.
well worded, it is so rare on these forums |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC 0ccupational Hazzard
144
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Posted - 2012.01.26 08:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:St Mio wrote:Caldari 5 wrote:MWD bonus is useless for me, I use my Retribution to help new players with L1s and L2s etc, and MWDs can't be used in mission space. So an AB Bonus would suit me allot more.
Also agree with the fact that giving it a MWD bonus steps on the toes of the interceptors. They changed (almost all) missions to allow MWD in them months ago already :P Some newbie missions still don't.
Bug report it. |
St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
422
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Posted - 2012.01.26 08:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
They said they wanted to enable MWDs in all missions ( http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1376276&page=1#13 ) So yeah, bug report it :> |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
661
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Posted - 2012.01.26 09:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
I was fine with my Ishkur just the way it was.
These new additions are gravy and I'm sure not going to complain about them. If I feel the need to put a MWD on it I will do it knowing that it's a little bit better than it was. If I stick with an AB then I'm just as happy with the thing as I was before.
Mr Epeen Me too!-á I ate one sour, too! |
JamesCLK
Lone Star Exploration Lone Star Partners
31
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Posted - 2012.01.26 10:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sigh... and then there was whine about changes that had absolutely zero negative impacts on an underused ship-class.
The MWD bonus makes AFs useful as heavy tackle in fleet situations and makes them semi-viable kiting platforms (if you weren't afraid of the kiting jag before, now you should be); It means that they won't get volleyed as much while trying to catch kiting cruisers and the like too, which is good! Any speed bonus would have moved them dangerously far into combat inty role territory, which would be terrible; an AB bonus is entirely un-needed - HACs don't have them either but tbh they'd be lucky to get a similar sigrad role bonus.
Sure, for fleet work a faction frigate or combat inty might do a better job at tackling, but those ships don't exactly boast a lot of tank - or gank (the new Enyo especially is a DPS monster in a frigate husk) for that matter. The AF combines the three into a nice balanced mix for any frigate fleet.
For solo work you should just see the MWD sig bonus as a free side order of fries with your steak; but it is just that: a free side order - so you shouldn't be complaining because it doesn't have your favorite compliment of salt and vinegar -- IMHO. So go slap an AB on your AF, just like before, and revel in the fact that you're not being bound by the unbendable rules of the "if it has bonus, you fit bonused module" crowd.
NB: For those interested, Azual did a very nice blog entry on these new changes over in the blog pack; go check it out, then figure out why these changes are terrific and CCP Tallest is a god amongst developers. |
Solstice Project
Cult of Personality
1279
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Posted - 2012.01.26 10:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
"a more heavily armed interceptor"
"interceptor"
*LOL*
Interceptor = fast as hell, high warp speed. Assault frig = slow as the rest, usual warp speed. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Takeshi Yamato
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
146
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Posted - 2012.01.26 11:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:MWD bonus really steps on the toes of combat ceptors (Claw, Taranis, Crusader, Crow), which don't get point range bonuses, and are somewhat slower than their tackle ceptor counterparts. Combat ceptors are now the class that most need a look-see
AFs have been so bad that people preferred to fly combat interceptors instead for damage dealing. These new AFs are not stepping on the combat interceptor's toes, they are reclaiming their intended role.
As for actual interceptor work, there is no need to worry, interceptors are still a lot better at it. |
Solj RichPopolous
Triple Entente
1
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Posted - 2012.01.26 11:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
YOU NOT DOING IT RIGHT.
My AF goes 2500 m/s on AB who needs a MWD.
This is heavy tackle try getting 1 of those off your ass with a nice little tank and going that fast, guns flat out miss and missiles do jack all for damage. Bout the only savior is long range webs or heavy neuts. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
269
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Posted - 2012.01.26 11:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Basically the MWD bonus gives you a choice. You can fit an AB as most did before, enjoying the low sigres and functionality even if scrammed. OR, you can fit and MWD, which with reduced sigres make it possible to act as a chaser tackler with a bit more punch and tank than an interceptor (but still slower) without beeing shot to pieces immediately due to the huge bloom. Or you can fit both. Dual prop setups are definitly possible on some AFs.
Secondly, yes - some of the new bonuses are "lamer" than others. If you look closer though, you find that the "lamer" bonuses are applied to the AFs previosly thought of as the strongest ones, while the more awesome bonuses are applied to the previously weak ones. Its called balancing. And in the case of AFs, the playing field just got way more level.
For example, the Ishkurs new bonus is kinda meh, while the new bonus to the Enyo is awesome. Now, pilots have a real choice. Enyo or Ishkur? previously that question wasnt even asked. Peope always chose the Ishkur. Now both are viable choices. |
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Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC 0ccupational Hazzard
40
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Posted - 2012.01.26 12:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kumq uat wrote: I am also not sure just how well a blaster ship can track with that MWD cranking it around taking it way out of range. .
Hi, I am a Warp Scrambler II, combine me with my good friend Stasis Webifier II and we do great things
Everytime you dont like my comments/posts the terrorists win and your a disgrace to your country. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
361
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Posted - 2012.01.26 14:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
Solj RichPopolous wrote:YOU NOT DOING IT RIGHT.
My AF goes 2500 m/s on AB who needs a MWD.
This is heavy tackle try getting 1 of those off your ass with a nice little tank and going that fast, guns flat out miss and missiles do jack all for damage. Bout the only savior is long range webs or heavy neuts.
Get thet 10MN AB off your AF before I slap you, bro. |
Aamrr
247
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Posted - 2012.01.26 14:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
Am I the only one that sees the MWD bonus as a tremendous opportunity for our new AFs to dual-prop? |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
363
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Posted - 2012.01.26 14:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
Aamrr wrote:Am I the only one that sees the MWD bonus as a tremendous opportunity for our new AFs to dual-prop? +1! With the buffed HP and the extra lowslot for a nano, I want to see what the Jag can do. |
Kumq uat
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
92
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Posted - 2012.01.26 15:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
Don't get me wrong, this is nitpicking of the highest order and CCP has been going a great job lately. I am Jewish though and am entitled to whine. |
Roosterton
Shattered Star Exiles SpaceMonkey's Alliance
282
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Posted - 2012.01.26 15:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
I don't know about you, but my arty kiting jag really loves the mwd sigres bonus |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
364
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Posted - 2012.01.26 15:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Roosterton wrote:I don't know about you, but my arty kiting jag really loves the mwd sigres bonus Kiting AFs in general should be loving this. Harpy and Enyo (with railguns) in particular, but also the Retribution. Medium Pulse Laser IIs with Scorch = delicious. |
Shukuzen Kiraa
47-Ronin
43
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Posted - 2012.01.26 15:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
Aamrr wrote:Am I the only one that sees the MWD bonus as a tremendous opportunity for our new AFs to dual-prop?
Sure....as long as they plan on putting ANOTHER mid slot on the retribution, that plan would work out great. |
river Zateki
The Elysian Agoge Elysian Empire
13
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Posted - 2012.01.26 16:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
The MWD role bonus doesnt NEED to be followed on. It isnt a disgrace to fit an AB to an AF even with the bonus its hardly wasted. Its not like your trying to fit projectiles on a nightmare or anything.... |
Maluscious Melody
Frequent Moose
6
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Posted - 2012.01.26 16:56:00 -
[30] - Quote
As much as I'd love a flat AB speed bonus instead of the crappy MWD sig bonus that steps on the toes of interceptors, I do think it would be too powerful.
What if AFs got a bonus to AB cap usage that meant they could keep their ABs running even when neuted. 80-90% (or even 100%?) reduction to AB capacitor need role bonus. |
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