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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Emsigma
Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:03:00 -
[31]
Originally by: CCP Atropos Also, with regards to speed setups being 'immune', the new Minmatar EWar frigate can web at 20km with a standard 10km webifier... Combine that with a Keres and you can lock down the 100m Vagabond with 2 10m isk frigates.
Problem 1) Vaga will pop that lil frig in a second Problem 2) Vaga can shoot at the poor frig at 30km Problem 3) Vaga will likely just impulse out of the web range due to massive inertia + speed. ---
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CCP Atropos
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:06:00 -
[32]
Originally by: TZeer
Originally by: CCP Atropos Also, with regards to speed setups being 'immune', the new Minmatar EWar frigate can web at 20km with a standard 10km webifier... Combine that with a Keres and you can lock down the 100m Vagabond with 2 10m isk frigates.
Not talking about 1vs1 or 2vs1. I`m talking about fighting against bigger numbers. It`s not uncommon that whenever we move into a system it doesnt take long for the blobs to appear.
How do we fight that if engaging at range will no longer be an option since we will not be able to lock any fastmovers before they are on top of us?
It`s about hitting fast, and getting the F*** out of there.
You could always adapt your tactics. If that isn't something you're particularly keen on doing, then a mix of scanres and scanrange scripts would be my initial suggestion.
The designs for these should be finalised reasonably soon(Ö) so keep a watchful eye on their statistics on Sisi.
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Cythrawl
Caldari Central Defiance
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:08:00 -
[33]
Originally by: TZeer
Originally by: CCP Atropos Also, with regards to speed setups being 'immune', the new Minmatar EWar frigate can web at 20km with a standard 10km webifier... Combine that with a Keres and you can lock down the 100m Vagabond with 2 10m isk frigates.
Not talking about 1vs1 or 2vs1. I`m talking about fighting against bigger numbers. It`s not uncommon that whenever we move into a system it doesnt take long for the blobs to appear.
How do we fight that if engaging at range will no longer be an option since we will not be able to lock any fastmovers before they are on top of us?
It`s about hitting fast, and getting the F*** out of there.
They probably just screwed your mode of pvp over. Seeing as it was almost impossible to pin you guys down due to the form of tactics you were using, now you're going to have to risk more or develop a new style.
You've been hosed. Welcome to EVE. Time to adapt past just WCS. To the drawing board!
.:.
Originally by: Krazy Bitsch
Originally by: Virtuality In before the first troll.
i do believe you are too late for this.... |
TZeer
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:08:00 -
[34]
Quote: Invariably, when kitting for a fight, people want either a quick lock time or a long lock range, the added bonus of the second modifier is simply a useful addition, not the intended effect. As a result, it's up to you to decide what end result you want to achieve. If you want to lock quicker, you'll either have to fight closer, and fit a scanres script, or if you want to fight further away you would fit the scanrange script. You decide.
So doing hit and runs on superior numbers are no longer an option?
For some reason I see this as a boost to close range and fast moving gankfits, and a nerf to ranged combat. Also a boost to the blobs. Since all they will need is fit for speed and rush you.
I tried fitting 2 sensorboosters on the testserver, I was able to warp in, turn around and warp out before I was able to lock a frig...
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TZeer
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:15:00 -
[35]
Edited by: TZeer on 26/10/2007 16:17:25
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Originally by: TZeer
Originally by: CCP Atropos Also, with regards to speed setups being 'immune', the new Minmatar EWar frigate can web at 20km with a standard 10km webifier... Combine that with a Keres and you can lock down the 100m Vagabond with 2 10m isk frigates.
Not talking about 1vs1 or 2vs1. I`m talking about fighting against bigger numbers. It`s not uncommon that whenever we move into a system it doesnt take long for the blobs to appear.
How do we fight that if engaging at range will no longer be an option since we will not be able to lock any fastmovers before they are on top of us?
It`s about hitting fast, and getting the F*** out of there.
You could always adapt your tactics. If that isn't something you're particularly keen on doing, then a mix of scanres and scanrange scripts would be my initial suggestion.
The designs for these should be finalised reasonably soon(Ö) so keep a watchful eye on their statistics on Sisi.
Yeah, we could, stop engaging outnumbered.
Quote: They probably just screwed your mode of pvp over. Seeing as it was almost impossible to pin you guys down due to the form of tactics you were using, now you're going to have to risk more or develop a new style.
You've been hosed. Welcome to EVE. Time to adapt past just WCS. To the drawing board!
Not impossible, we loose ships to. Usually takes a blob to do it though :P
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Ragel Tropxe
The Older Gamers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:32:00 -
[36]
Id be interested to see how you intend to balance this for snipers
Megathron - gets inbuilt tracking bonus - OK Ill fit range scripts Rokh - gets inbuilt range bonus - Ok Ill fit tracking scripts
Tempest / Geddon etc ---erm?????
If you go ahead with this you need to reassess tracking and effective range on Artillery especially. Arty has already been hit hard with the HP increase. I do understand that no judgement can be made until the scripts come out, but as it stands, it would appear this amounts to a huge nerf to Artillery snipers.
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Il Reverendo
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:36:00 -
[37]
Range on tachs, 425s and 1400's with equivalent ammos is fairly close, at least they're all within the same sort of effective range.
One big difference is tracking, namely 1400's don't have it.
The range boost from tracking comps is needed for all three weapon types on fleet ships, however 1400's need both the extra range, and of course the extra tracking to make then work properly.
Surely the change to tracking computers is therefore a nerf to artillery relative to its effect on any other turret types?
Is this not a problem? Or do 1400's track too well and need a nerf? ()
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Elmicker
Black Sea Industries Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:37:00 -
[38]
Unless you're doubling the number of slots on fleet battleships, you'd better think of something sharpish, because otherwise you've just nerfed all of them except the rokh.
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Veng3ance
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:40:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Veng3ance on 26/10/2007 16:42:27 I could see these changes being alright for Electronic Warfare.
However, if you nerf sniper battleships in any way I will ****en go ballistic.
Just a warning
Did I mention for day to day PVP sniper battleships are not overpowered at all. The changes to Tech 2 Ammo damage and range was PLENTY to keep the sniper BS in-line for the last 6 months. PLEASE do not change it.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:43:00 -
[40]
lets wait if till we see teh scripts. imho i think this is a good approach..
the also should "nerf" webifiers giving them a script where you can choose range or web amount..
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Montaire
Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:54:00 -
[41]
Seriously guys - speed is broken right now.
The problem is that CCP likes the idea of "Tacklers" bieng light ships. But they are too light to withstand the ship they are trying to hold down, and with inertia as it is right now they just coast out of whatever they encoutner that webs them.
I'd be all for a range of specialized fast moving ships, but its out of control right now. I fly a Huginn and most stuff just coasts right out of web range, even with 2 web's on them. Once they move, even just a little, out of web range their speed kicks in again and its over.
The tacklers that can catch a speed fit cant survive the alpha. The taclkers that can survive the damage cant catch them.
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Arenis Xemdal
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.10.26 17:15:00 -
[42]
When do we get to play with scripts?
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ArmyOfMe
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.10.26 17:15:00 -
[43]
Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 26/10/2007 17:26:28
Hopefully one of the best changes ever
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Elmicker
Black Sea Industries Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.10.26 17:16:00 -
[44]
Will damp/TD-specialised ships be getting a buff in response to the nerf so they maintain their effectiveness?
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Cara Cunilingus
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2007.10.26 17:28:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Elmicker Will damp/TD-specialised ships be getting a buff in response to the nerf so they maintain their effectiveness?
Hope not, they are overpowered already.
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Elmicker
Black Sea Industries Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.10.26 17:29:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Cara Cunilingus Hope not, they are overpowered already.
Not if the effects have just been dropped by 2/3, they're not.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Blood Corsair's
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Posted - 2007.10.26 17:44:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Elmicker Unless you're doubling the number of slots on fleet battleships, you'd better think of something sharpish, because otherwise you've just nerfed all of them except the rokh.
I pointed this out a month ago. No one ever listens. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
Neo Rainhart
Caldari Leela's Lamas
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Posted - 2007.10.26 18:05:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Spare me I guess nerfing is addictive
Too much of anything will make you an addict.. ♥♥♥
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Valator Uel
Caldari Pax Minor Asylum Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.10.26 18:06:00 -
[49]
I think these changes are awesome. There should never have been a single module boosting two areas of your ship, and this is the perfect fix for it. You have to put yourself in the shoes of a dev looking to encourage small gang pvp, take the following sitaution as an example:
You and your wingman are flying through lowsec and engate or get engaged at a gate. The gang has a few frigates that could cause problems with ewar, so in order to lock them quickly you change the setting on your sensor booster to boost your resolution as range is not a problem. End result: you can lock faster (than before) at normal range. Second situation but this time you have a ship dampening you and you can defend yourself, so you boost your range to be able to target them. While in that situation it would be nice to be able to lock faster, any lock is better than none.
These are just two simple examples of a single module in a rather straight-forward pvp situation. Ofcourse pvp isn't always that simple, it just means now you'll be able to counteract ewar much better but require better situational awareness to deal with enemies. It also means that player skill > character SP, which is an excellent move imho.
As far as stats go I'm gonna wait and see how they finalise them. After that I reserve the right to whine. -----------------------------------------------------
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Nephrops norvegicus
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.26 18:20:00 -
[50]
btw, the Amarr battleships will need some adjustment after this change to make them not useless for fleet.
but i'm sure you already know that, right?
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Rulkez
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2007.10.26 18:43:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Rulkez on 26/10/2007 18:43:05 It wont help counter blobbing, the player base will resort to the age old " if we cant beat them . bring more ships till we can"
CCP need to learn balance doesnt = nerf it till its so poor no one will use it
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Nian Banks
Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2007.10.26 19:37:00 -
[52]
Ok ok we understand whats going on but heres one simple and I think fair request.
Can we please have a for the sensor boosters and tracking computers, plus any non ewar module thats getting this treatment, A script each that if fitted, gives the exact same bonuses as the current unchanged modules? Sensor Boosters were never that powerful to start with.
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Gragnor
Ordos Humanitas
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Posted - 2007.10.26 19:41:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Gragnor on 26/10/2007 19:43:54 These changes are effectively yet another nerfing of artillery.
The tracking issues will require CCP to redesign how artillery functions as it means they cannot be used in anyhting other than a battleship v battleship fight.
Given the DPS disparity between Minnie ships and the rest; Minnie ships have been disproportionally affected. The much ridiculed active tanking bonus on the Maelstrom is now a joke. If you need three sensor boosters and three tracking computers to hit anything over 150km; you have just reduced its bonus to nothing. Compared to the inherent resist bonuses of other ships, you guys owe everyone who flys the Maelstrom an explanation. WE won't get one as you are too arrogant to provide it.
The autopest is now rarely seen in small gang pvp as other ships dramatically outdamage it and the tracking issues associated with large guns mean it cannot hit anything. As for autopest tanking, well after I stop laughing, I could ask how with the slot configuration it has.
The Typhoon remains a joke. The fact it has been a joke for years demonstrates CCP's game balancing hypocrisy.
Basically, in solving one problem that doesn't exist, CCP has created many more. The sheer arrogance, contempt and disdain this company demonstrates towards its clients is breathtaking.
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Loedem
Minmatar Knockaround Guys
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Posted - 2007.10.26 20:09:00 -
[54]
I'm interested in all these adjustments. I suppose one of the dangers of letting the general public beta-test things that aren't final is you get a lot of speculation in the process.
This is particulary bad for a game like EvE where it's so easy to assign *real value* to everything in it...I mean there's a direct exchange of currency to ISK with GTCs for starters.
Not being involved in any of that mess, tho...and treating this as simply a game. I'm relatively unphased...so things will change...we'll find workarounds and new tactics...big deal :P
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.26 21:12:00 -
[55]
Originally by: CCP Atropos Also, with regards to speed setups being 'immune', the new Minmatar EWar frigate can web at 20km with a standard 10km webifier... Combine that with a Keres and you can lock down the 100m Vagabond with 2 10m isk frigates.
2x 25 mil ISK frigates you mean. That's how much they'll be selling for, given the current state of invention. Nevermind the fact one of them will pop on a lucky shot, while tha Vagabond CAN tank to a certain degree. _
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Vallerie Rosal
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Posted - 2007.10.30 16:17:00 -
[56]
so u devs thought it was a great idea to nerf ewar again? you do realize good ewar pilots already have a crap ton of things to manage on their plate in order to be useful to a experienced gang? also i lol at the fact that you guys have chosen to nerf one of the least utilized playstyles out there. most people rush the tech2 large guns, not the lvl5 ewar skills. and now? who would.
thanks a lot for killing this playstyle. with ewar now completely down the tubes, why not just ask everyone to dust off their floppy drives and go play TIE fighter, more guns less brains
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.10.30 16:29:00 -
[57]
One issue that needs addressing: currently, damps are better than tracking disruptors. Period.
The reason has to do with the fact that damps work against anything and TDs only vs other ship typses. This is obvious. Everyone knows damps are currently used a *lot* more than TDs.
Thing is, if damps and TDs are getting nerfed, it should not be a symmetrical nerf. In other words, they should not both be scaled down by some same static factor.
TDs have to gain some relative "ooomph" compared to damps, otherwise nothing will change in their relative usability. In other words, TDs need to get nerfed noticably less than damps.
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Cythrawl
Caldari Central Defiance
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Posted - 2007.10.30 16:50:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Vallerie Rosal so u devs thought it was a great idea to nerf ewar again? you do realize good ewar pilots already have a crap ton of things to manage on their plate in order to be useful to a experienced gang? also i lol at the fact that you guys have chosen to nerf one of the least utilized playstyles out there. most people rush the tech2 large guns, not the lvl5 ewar skills. and now? who would.
thanks a lot for killing this playstyle. with ewar now completely down the tubes, why not just ask everyone to dust off their floppy drives and go play TIE fighter, more guns less brains
Seeing as you've only been around about 6 months, take a sit down and just wait till things are sorted.
The problem was that certain ships who shouldn't have the ability to be nothing but 1-1 super tacklers such as the huginn and rapier could hold your ass forever. Those ships got nerfed. Primary ewar ships will still be used. You tell me even if the screw with locking range and locking time that you'll completely give up on using damps and you'll be the biggest liar in this game.
BTW, before you tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about, I'll tell you a little story of a man who got his ewar skills all the way up and got into a rook 1 month before they nerfed ECM. That man was me. I cried like a little girl at first too. Then I remembered that BS fights wouldn't be completely based on the chance of a single multispect ecm hitting for a cycle.
The problem is that the bonuses on the rook and falcon are still crap compared to the fact that a t1 blackbird can jam just as well as a falcon and the rook barely manages to meet the same amount of ecm str that it had before the changes.
They'll boost the ships who use the ewar's that are getting 'nerfed'. The lachesis and arazu to some degree will be worse than before but this totally removes nano damp curses and rapiers from owning the skies 1-1.
AS FOR SNIPING: Here's the problem I keep seeing with the complaints: Who really needs more tracking when you are hitting at 200km and the target is moving under 500m a second?
Nobody really. Ok, maybe Minny ships. You've got lots of midslots(compared to amarr or gallente) on those from shield tanking if you're talking about a Maelstrom or Tempest.
You're only going to miss things that are nano'd up or so small you can't hit them anyway. And if you do need that much tracking, I'm fairly certain you'll probably already be aligned to warp out since the ships would have to be inside your affective combat ranges by a wide margin.
The diff caused by the changes to sensor boosters is going to be that from now on, sniping fleets won't consist of huge groups of BS alone jumping to gates to ***** heads. You'll need support to hold off tacklers because you'll have to spend the majority of your 'one or the other, range or speed' on locking at range.
Some will tell me that's the way it works right now. Yeah... I've been in a few fleets, I've strafed with a sniper before. You don't need tackle protection as much now as when the interceptor change comes through and people start using raptors, ares, stilettos and maledictions to tackle over their counterparts. Those warp disruption range bonuses are going to be evil when you start scramming outside of neut range and able to keep up a high rate of speed indefinitely.
.:.
Originally by: Krazy Bitsch
Originally by: Virtuality In before the first troll.
i do believe you are too late for this.... |
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