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Trask Kilraen
The Older Gamers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.26 13:37:00 -
[1]
Dear CCP:
Lay of the tequila! You guys are going so crazy with the nerfbat, that there must be some serious partying goin' on there!
I kid... but please remember an old experimentation adage: change one variable at a time. By nerfing so much stuff at once, you are giving yourselves a balancing nightmare. You guys are gonna spend the next 6 months trying to fix stuff you never intended to break, and balancing stuff you never expected to have to balance!
You have a living game here... such drastic attempts at re-balance are gonna backfire! ------------------------------------------
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DasDizzy
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Posted - 2007.10.26 13:43:00 -
[2]
/signed
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judes23
The Silent Rage M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.26 13:59:00 -
[3]
/signed oh, and i bet how they pick there next nerf is buy getting tons of those playable cards, close there eyes, and throw darts at the ship. and which ever one gets hit will be nerfed to a tech1 cruiser! -----------------------------------
save them, save your future |
Daan Sai
HAZCON Inc Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.10.26 14:01:00 -
[4]
Agreed. Also nerfing should be the design choice of *last* resort. Boosting counter measures is a far better approach in most cases. Sensor dampers too powerful, boost sensors. Add new options to counter, diverse option will lead to better long term evolution of the virtual system. A sudden well meaning nerf can lead to unintended extinction.
Nerfing also damages "suspension of disbelief", in RL technology just taking a backward step is a bit hard to swallow, even if it applies to everyone. |
judes23
The Silent Rage M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.26 14:03:00 -
[5]
ya, thats a good idea. boost the things before u nerf it all...i like that idea -----------------------------------
save them, save your future |
kattak4
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.10.26 14:12:00 -
[6]
Didn't they say they had 1000 bugs to fix or something?
That must mean they have 1000 things to nerf, before they're done.
Granted these changes are gonna really shake things up once they hit, will be interesting to watch so many things die and see what comes out as the new "best" ships.
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Lord DarkStar
Gallente Mobile Alcohol Processing Units United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.26 14:19:00 -
[7]
my vote is on frigates. .. a good frigate gang can take out a few battleships and ccp doesnt seem to nerfum! :P
We of the Unicorn clan are the best horsemen in the land,our horses are our lives and brothers,we fight as one,we live as one,we die as one. |
Zenobite
The Black Fleet
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Posted - 2007.10.26 14:24:00 -
[8]
/signed
Ever since kali CCP have been nerfing thing left, right and centre to try and balance things out, take nos for instance:
HP & CAP boost in rev1 = tanks are much tougher, eveyone fits nos to kill the cap = nos nerf
ECM gets spanked = greater use of damps = damp nerf
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:01:00 -
[9]
This is the game development forum, not the randomly smacking CCP forum. Please at least try and be constructive? -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP |
Trask Kilraen
The Older Gamers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:52:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Daan Sai Agreed. Also nerfing should be the design choice of *last* resort. Boosting counter measures is a far better approach in most cases. Sensor dampers too powerful, boost sensors. Add new options to counter, diverse option will lead to better long term evolution of the virtual system. A sudden well meaning nerf can lead to unintended extinction.
Nerfing also damages "suspension of disbelief", in RL technology just taking a backward step is a bit hard to swallow, even if it applies to everyone.
My thoughts exactly. ------------------------------------------
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Trask Kilraen
The Older Gamers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:56:00 -
[11]
Originally by: James Lyrus This is the game development forum, not the randomly smacking CCP forum. Please at least try and be constructive?
I was being constructive. I suggested that perhaps adding in so many nerfs at once isn;t a good idea. I'm not smacking CCP. All of Eve's weaknesses aside, it's the best MMO ever made, bar none, and the only one I play today. I loves me CCP. But I think their balancing philosophy needs a rethink. I build software for a living too, and I can see the nerfest 2007 shipwreck coming from a mile away.
Another poster posted a constructuve suggestion: Instead of nerfing stuff, introduce effective counters. ------------------------------------------
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Phaedruss
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:58:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Phaedruss on 26/10/2007 15:58:28
Originally by: Trask Kilraen but please remember an old experimentation adage: change one variable at a time. By nerfing so much stuff at once, you are giving yourselves a balancing nightmare. You guys are gonna spend the next 6 months trying to fix stuff you never intended to break, and balancing stuff you never expected to have to balance!
You have a living game here... such drastic attempts at re-balance are gonna backfire!
Couldn't agree with you more. Excellent post.
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Phaedruss
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Posted - 2007.10.26 16:00:00 -
[13]
Originally by: James Lyrus This is the game development forum, not the randomly smacking CCP forum. Please at least try and be constructive?
Are you out of your mind? The posts in this thread would have to be among the most intelligent and constructive posts in these forums, and the developers would be well advised to take heed.
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Jhey Mein
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Posted - 2007.10.29 06:12:00 -
[14]
/sign
Here's to hoping CCP doesn't overlook this thread as a "yet another 'stop nerfing' whine thread", because what's said here is fundamentally sound. I too fear what will happen if too many changes (i.e. nerfs in this case) are introduced at once...
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Michael McNeil
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Posted - 2007.10.29 12:48:00 -
[15]
signed... Stop The NERF! for the love of this game, please stop it.
its only a sign of a bad game when you must nerf so much.
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adriaans
Amarr Advanced Capital Ship Designs
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Posted - 2007.10.29 16:53:00 -
[16]
/signed
buff stuff needing a boost first --sig--
Knowledge is power! |
Krissie
Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:00:00 -
[17]
CCP must be a buncha 12 year olds, I can't see them being any older, they have almost no wisdom, experience or intelligence... only way to stop this idiocy is with a gun, I'll pitch in the isk to have them off'd...
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Loedem
Minmatar Knockaround Guys
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:06:00 -
[18]
Have a little patience, they have some incredibly smart folks working at CCP with lots of experience with this game in particular, and I'm sure they spend many hours discussing all possible outcomes, so the end result more closely fits their vision...the style of play will change a bit, but we'll learn to adapt.
This game, is really at their disgression. It's their artistic direction, and their ideas of what the MMO should be and what it could become. We pay to play along with that direction...obviously because we've enjoyed it so far. Cut the devs some slack, the sense of entitlement is overwhelming. (I'll try hard to avoid references to the "me generation" but the way some of these threads read it's tough not to label).
When it comes down to it, the nerfs aren't neccessarily bad...but at the same time they're not final yet either. I think some of the best responses to proposed nerfs so far in this forum have been the ones where the OP does a lot of research beforehand (with a little math magic) to show where the imbalances occur. It's entirely possible the Dev's will miss things here and there, that's what development is all about. But atleast back up these statements with some insight...it'd make it easier for a lot of ppl to agree
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Jagdgewehr
Gallente Layered Orbital Logistics and Industrial Supply
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:07:00 -
[19]
I think a lot of the frustration comes in that CCP has said many times that Eve is supposed to be a sandbox game. They keep changing the type of sand in the box and kicking over our awesome sand castles, though.
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Loedem
Minmatar Knockaround Guys
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:18:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jagdgewehr I think a lot of the frustration comes in that CCP has said many times that Eve is supposed to be a sandbox game. They keep changing the type of sand in the box and kicking over our awesome sand castles, though.
Everything is subject to change in life. Shaloin (sp?) monks have had it figured out for years, which is why they build beautiful sand sculptures and then let the wind blow them away. It's not just a commonality for MMO's, it's a fact of life as well. Study it, and adapt...nothing is guaranteed (ooohmmm)
Originally by: Krissie stuff that should get moderated...
That is honestly the worst thing I've ever read on eve-o (and that's including what goes on in CAOD). Seriously, banned for life material there...what would make you say something so cruel? Do you really want to discuss beta testing in a forum where people respond like you? I'd edit it, seriously...
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Varrakk
Chosen Path
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:39:00 -
[21]
Indeed, there isnt much to rejoice over with Rev III
Coming with stupid and not needed changes in every direction
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Valerax Orion
Fourth Circle Total Comfort
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:50:00 -
[22]
Originally by: James Lyrus This is the game development forum, not the randomly smacking CCP forum. Please at least try and be constructive?
People are trying to be least constructive.
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Italian Wedding
Soup Of The Day
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Posted - 2007.10.29 18:24:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Italian Wedding on 29/10/2007 18:25:23
Just stop with the crying already, ok? Things need to be balanced for the good of the game. Boosting things could make other aspects overpowered. Should they have boosted Web Range because of the near invincible nano Domi's? No, because that would have completely screwed every single smaller ship in the game. Should they have left NOS the way it was? No, because it was completely overpowered vs smaller ships.
So, Dear OP, let CCP do their job and provide CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK on the changes. Please refrain from the "OMFGCCPNERFEDMYEPEEN" syndrom. signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link) - Jacques([email protected]) |
Zenobite
The Black Fleet
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Posted - 2007.10.29 18:50:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Italian Wedding Edited by: Italian Wedding on 29/10/2007 18:25:23
Just stop with the crying already, ok? Things need to be balanced for the good of the game. Boosting things could make other aspects overpowered. Should they have boosted Web Range because of the near invincible nano Domi's? No, because that would have completely screwed every single smaller ship in the game. Should they have left NOS the way it was? No, because it was completely overpowered vs smaller ships.
So, Dear OP, let CCP do their job and provide CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK on the changes. Please refrain from the "OMFGCCPNERFEDMYEPEEN" syndrom.
I see absolutely nothing constructive in your post, the OP made a good point about something a lot people seem to be feeling in EVE at the moment, that the sweeping changes that they are proposing are just arbitrary attempts to correct problems caused by previous patches or these that nerfs seem to keep reducing the options you have in combat.
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CFC Fodder
Gallente R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2007.10.29 22:54:00 -
[25]
I think CCP needs to stop, and look at what could be/will be the most popular module/ship in the future, and work to balance it out beforehand. Of course sometimes things need to be nerfed because it wasn't looked at too well in the first place- hey, crap happens. But how does any of the nerfs coming out affect the newest ships coming along with them? How popular are they going to be in the player pool? How does each one affect a gang? Etc, etc.
Point is, EVE is a dynamic game where people have their own tastes. Modules and ships need to be somewhat balanced with the rest of EVE before being introduced.
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Cryshannon
Amarr Digital Foundry
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Posted - 2007.10.30 02:21:00 -
[26]
I fear I know where the missing dev's from Sony ended up. This is typical Sony style nerfing going on.
But the OP was right .. change one thing at a time and go from there.. be leaders and not followers ... be the first to boost and not take away. Do this and I can see more people coming to check this wickedly good and insanely addicting game out.
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Yon89
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Posted - 2007.10.30 12:53:00 -
[27]
/signed
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Angor
The JORG Corporation Methods of Mayhem Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.30 12:56:00 -
[28]
2 words: God Complex _______________________________ [ 2007.06.07 21:07:22 ] FrankyWave > ransom me guys I am joining XElas !!!
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