Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Reapeat Offender
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.11.01 23:08:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Reapeat Offender on 01/11/2007 23:09:53
Originally by: Qual Edited by: Qual on 01/11/2007 22:37:03 Dont tell me you cant get enough Ragoons together to protect a freighter convoy...
Yes, freighters are still in the game. They are still the ultimate hauler, though very slow, and for the really large empires the Titan jump bridge will still solve the problem of gettin past low sec space in one piece.
Am i saying it is as easy as now? No not by a long shot. But those big blue, red and yellow patches in southern space tells me its way to easy now. Unlike what Sir Molle has told you, eve is NOT about concoring the whole universe. CCP putting an extra hindrence up for wild space grabbing gets my seal of approval.
Edited for spelling
Making major changes to existing mechanics without providing a reasonable amount of time to plan for it and adjust is poor game management in my opinion.
We goons already have a jumpbridge network that stretches from the lowsec/0.0 border all the way down to into the heart of our space.
T1 freighters already play an important logistics role for us in moving bulk items from empire down our jump bridge highway into our hub systems. As I'm sure I don't have to tell you, the logistics of running an alliance in the middle of a war in 0.0 involves more than just running huge amounts of bulk items in t1 freighters to hub systems. There is also a need to move smaller amounts of materials to many different locations through hostile space located some distance away from the central hubs. A role currently filled perfectly by carriers. One now that may need to be replaced with something else. And no..that something else isn't a heavily guarded convoy taking a t1 freighter through 20 hostile jumps to fuel 6 POS's in a system that happens not to be along the jump bridge route.
I am not disputing CCP's right to make massive changes with huge impacts. I am not taking a position one way or other as to how I feel about these changes. The point of my post was to simply say I think it only fair that they give those negatively impacted a reasonable amount of time to adjust first before implementing the changes.
Not an unreasonable request really. Also one not without precedent. CCP was going to introduce a huge nerf to mineral compression in the last patch cycle with almost no advance warning to those who would have been negatively impacted. After listening to player feedback, they decided to delay their planned nerf.
I only hope they listen this time as well and act accordingly.
Oh..and by the way...this isn't CAOD. Save the goon bashing for posts in the appropriate forum.
|
Qual
Gallente Cornexant Research
|
Posted - 2007.11.01 23:21:00 -
[62]
It was not meant as bashing. It was actually just a hint to the fact that you are the largest alliance in the game.
I will admit I dont understand the need to nerf the old freighters ability to use jump bridges. Seems a bit odd.
But then again. This will make POS logistics hard. This will a good counter for POS warfare. But at a way to high cost for the rest of the economy.
I agree that if ALL the changes currently there makes it to release, the T2 market will collapse. FOr while at least.
Taking a longer view, it might actually ahve the effect of reducing the territory sizes keep by single alliances and giving smaller alliances chances to get a spot in 0.0. The relative value of a small spot will rise if logistcs get harder as that will raise the price of 0.0 materials all over the board. But id that is CCP's gamble, well, than thats some gamble.
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Quutar
Ars ex Discordia
|
Posted - 2007.11.01 23:27:00 -
[63]
it also means that many spots in 0.0 that were previously profitable will become more costly than they are worth
so while some think that by forcing the large alliances to consolidate their empire will free up space for smaller alliances... these spaces that are abandoned won't be profitable for them either. There is an economy of scale in running things in 0.0. Quutar Research Services Selling Amarr Outpost BPCs ME:10 |
ardik
TunkbwahCorp
|
Posted - 2007.11.01 23:36:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Qual This will make POS logistics hard. This will a good counter for POS warfare.
I'll start off diplomatically by calling you a complete ******* moron, since i feel that's the only reasonable response to something as offensively stupid as your statement.
No, it is not a counter for POS warfare. A counter for POS warfare would be limiting the amoung of sov claming towers in a system to like 3 so anchoring more would be of no point and people would be actually forced to fight over towers to take a system instead of just anchoring a few more. Or something like that.
Making the logistics take a couple hours more will not counter this, it'll only make the lives of the logistics people more miserable for no good reason, because in a large alliance someone WILL anchor and fuel those extra towers even if it means a couple more hours of mind-numbingly boring hauling. Why? For the same reason we have POS spamming now; it's easier than the alternative.
If CCP actually wanted to fight POS spamming they'd just remove POS spamming as an alternative to winning a system altogheter.
|
Kokob
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 01:14:00 -
[65]
I would hope we can keep the partisan bull **** out of this thread. As well, this is about information for t2 freighters not a discussion about the mechanics of Sovereignty. Start another thread for that if you wish to discuss the mechanics of Sov.
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 04:59:00 -
[66]
so whats the point of having a carrier that holds assembled ships that cant have ammo in their cargo holds!?!?!??!?!
jump freighters seem cool and all, except for the problems pointed out by everyone else, namely the long ass bpc copy time, and crazy cost of build.
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 09:23:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Akita T Just wait until they change the titan jumpbridge so that it no longer allows jumping freighters
Cassandra
Guess what ? T1 freighters on SiSi have *10 mass and /10 agility now This effectively means that you can NO LONGER titan-jumpbridge them NOR POS-jumpbridge them in any affordable way.
This is one big "told you so" _
1|2|3 |
Kayl Breinhar
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 09:50:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 02/11/2007 09:51:06
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton so whats the point of having a carrier that holds assembled ships that cant have ammo in their cargo holds!?!?!??!?!
jump freighters seem cool and all, except for the problems pointed out by everyone else, namely the long ass bpc copy time, and crazy cost of build.
I believe they said they can carry ammo but that's all. Hopefully where applicable cap boosters and (soon) scripts, probes (scanning and warp disruption) apply as well.
|
Qual
Gallente Cornexant Research
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 10:08:00 -
[69]
Originally by: ardik
Originally by: Qual This will make POS logistics hard. This will a good counter for POS warfare.
I'll start off diplomatically by calling you a complete ******* moron, since i feel that's the only reasonable response to something as offensively stupid as your statement.
Lets just say I happen to know quite a bit on the topic. What I say was founded in actual events, not speculation. But:
Originally by: Kokob I would hope we can keep the partisan bull **** out of this thread. As well, this is about information for t2 freighters not a discussion about the mechanics of Sovereignty. Start another thread for that if you wish to discuss the mechanics of Sov.
I assume that was meant for me as well. I was trying to present possible CCP motives for doing this, not start a discussion on the topic of POS warfare as such.
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Imperator Jora'h
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 12:12:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Qual Edited by: Qual on 29/10/2007 07:32:08
Originally by: Kokob
-Thanx to Imperator Jora'h for the link.
I just noticed this thread and saw the attribution to me. I had gotten the link from someone else with no clue who had originally put that up and then used that link in another thread around here somewhere. I never tried to pass it off as my link...just a link. Had I known who it came from originally I would have given credit.
Sorry for the confusion. Just some honest mistakes.
|
|
Imperator Jora'h
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 13:26:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Akita T Just wait until they change the titan jumpbridge so that it no longer allows jumping freighters
Cassandra
Guess what ? T1 freighters on SiSi have *10 mass and /10 agility now This effectively means that you can NO LONGER titan-jumpbridge them NOR POS-jumpbridge them in any affordable way.
This is one big "told you so"
I'm admittedly a dummy about these things. The upshot of that is freighters will handle the same (as in aligning and time to jump) but cost MUCH more to Jump Bridge? (Just want to be clear)
Also, can Jump Freighters drive around Empire? That is can they use gates like normal freighters?
|
maarud
Knight of Anubis
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 13:40:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Also, can Jump Freighters drive around Empire? That is can they use gates like normal freighters?
Yes, same as black ops BS's. They have jump drives but can still use gates. Maarud.
Proudly a Ex-BYDI member <t20> i'd rather have a python in my pants than a sleipnir |
Vanye Inovske
Two Brothers Mining Corp. Friend or Enemy
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 17:51:00 -
[73]
Originally by: maarud
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Also, can Jump Freighters drive around Empire? That is can they use gates like normal freighters?
Yes, same as black ops BS's. They have jump drives but can still use gates.
Have the devs said that anywhere? I haven't seen anything. And I don't believe the ships are available on Sisi yet to check.
|
Qual
Gallente Cornexant Research
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 19:14:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Qual on 02/11/2007 19:19:31 He, he. CCP are full of tricks on these ships:
Tech 2 style Captital Construction Components are on Sisi now. (Like Capital Titanium Diborate Armor Plate). And they are of course need on the Jump Frieghter instead of the usual T2 contruction compnonets.
We need new price estimates...
They seem to have a price factor of x50 pr unit over the usual components, but thats a very rough early estimate. (Fewer unit s are of course needed to though.)
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 19:45:00 -
[75]
So is it still a tech 2 bpc, or a t1 bpo that uses t2 construction parts? :-p _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
|
Reverend Revelator
Elite Storm Enterprises
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 20:07:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Pwett So is it still a tech 2 bpc, or a t1 bpo that uses t2 construction parts? :-p
Well, whatever would make you the happiest, thats the one it isnt.
-- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love -- |
Jahya Massai
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 20:27:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Qual Edited by: Qual on 02/11/2007 19:19:31 He, he. CCP are full of tricks on these ships:
Tech 2 style Captital Construction Components are on Sisi now. (Like Capital Titanium Diborate Armor Plate). And they are of course need on the Jump Frieghter instead of the usual T2 contruction compnonets.
We need new price estimates...
They seem to have a price factor of x50 pr unit over the usual components, but thats a very rough early estimate. (Fewer unit s are of course needed to though.)
Technically speaking, I think they're Capital T2 Ship Components and not T2 Capital Ship Components. Or as CCP calls them "Advanced Capital Ship Components". The BPOs are not yet seeded, but I hope they'll be below 45m a piece.
As for price estimates, running the numbers through a spreadsheet (Anshar in this particular case), multiplying everything by 1.9 to simulate an invented bpc with 90% waste... Moon materials Jita cost is.... *drumroll* 2,550,000,000 ISK, most of it in low-ends though (crystalline carbonide, sylramic fibers, fullerides).
They did reduce the need for actual capital components from the earlier versions, but they added capital cargo bays too to the requirements. In any case, the total cost for the (t1) capital comps would be 500m according to eve-meep.
To that add the tech 1 hull and the invention cost, and you've got 4.5b easy for a jump-freighter off the assembly line.
Before people start whining, they should remember that this ISN'T live, it's on the test server, and as such it's subject to frequent change and tweaking. Whether they tweak the numbers or not, I do believe the requirement types will stay pretty much the same (advanced capital components + capital components).
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 20:34:00 -
[78]
BPOs seeded ? ROFL. You're joking, right ? Invention only ! _
1|2|3 |
Reverend Revelator
Elite Storm Enterprises
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 20:36:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Akita T BPOs seeded ? ROFL. You're joking, right ? Invention only !
Ehm, I think he meant the component BPOs?
-- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love -- |
Jahya Massai
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 20:44:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Akita T BPOs seeded ? ROFL. You're joking, right ? Invention only !
I meant the new component BPOs.. Which are not inventable by the looks of it! (whew)
|
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 22:09:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Akita T on 02/11/2007 22:14:42
Originally by: Reverend Revelator Ehm, I think he meant the component BPOs?
That's what I meant too
Originally by: Jahya Massai I meant the new component BPOs.. Which are not inventable by the looks of it! (whew)
Not yet...
P.S. Ok, ok, I was just being evil here... I hope they don't actually DO it _
1|2|3 |
Jahya Massai
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 22:50:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 02/11/2007 22:14:42
Originally by: Reverend Revelator Ehm, I think he meant the component BPOs?
That's what I meant too
Originally by: Jahya Massai I meant the new component BPOs.. Which are not inventable by the looks of it! (whew)
Not yet...
P.S. Ok, ok, I was just being evil here... I hope they don't actually DO it
Hey it could be worse.. like tech 2 capital comps (t2 capital cargo bay, t2 capital propulsion engines etc). And they'd only be inventable from the tech 1 blueprints.. the ones that cost 1B+ each. We better shut up before we give them any ideas.
I've been considering the "ME decryptors" lately(ie. Engagement Plan). I've used them with some success, mostly for gallente jobs - they were saving me 10m or so per HAC, at least in theory. On the other hand would I waste a freighter BPC on anything else than the best chance decryptor? I guess it all depends on the BPC availability. Which at 1 month copy time, is not going to be that great.
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 23:37:00 -
[83]
I've got almost 2k of those +2 runs, no ME penality, +5 PE decryptors lying around just for this _
1|2|3 |
Benvie
Benvie Enterprises
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 00:10:00 -
[84]
Why would you think that capital tech 2 components would need to be invented? Regular tech 2 component bpos are bought from NPC corps.................
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 00:17:00 -
[85]
Shh, go with the flow, we're on a roll here _
1|2|3 |
Dominique Vasilkovsky
Techmart Industries
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 04:41:00 -
[86]
I'm just back from Fanfest and got some news about the jump freighters after attending the roundtables discussions.
First of all, the jump freighters will be able to use stargates so they can enter highsec.
The target construction cost is 3.6bill + invention.
They will need T2 capital components for construction and those will be released as BPOs and use the current lowend/unused reactions from moon mining to balance up that part of the market.
The skill requirement will be freighter 4 not freighter 5.
I think that cover most about the T2 freighters.
Signature approved by Eldo |
Riley Craven
Caldari Sunshine Carebear Crew
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 05:05:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Dominique Vasilkovsky I'm just back from Fanfest and got some news about the jump freighters after attending the roundtables discussions.
First of all, the jump freighters will be able to use stargates so they can enter highsec.
The target construction cost is 3.6bill + invention.
They will need T2 capital components for construction and those will be released as BPOs and use the current lowend/unused reactions from moon mining to balance up that part of the market.
The skill requirement will be freighter 4 not freighter 5.
I think that cover most about the T2 freighters.
SON OF A FIN BIATCH! Curses the heavens. I was praying with every fiber in my body that CCP was not going to be stupid enough to release t2 Capital. Considering all of their recent ideas to "fix" Eve its no fracking wonder they are going to keep an idea as stupid as t2 cap ships.
Trinity = NGE of SWG no qualms about it.
|
Khan Dhu
Khan Dhu Research and Cloning
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 09:37:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Khan Dhu on 05/11/2007 09:37:58 Nice, let's just hope now that they heard us asking for a 7.5% per level jump range boost over a 10% per level Hull HP boost.
(and that you're not talking out your ass and getting us all riled up with good yet false news)
|
Gorfob
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 09:38:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Dominique Vasilkovsky I'm just back from Fanfest and got some news about the jump freighters after attending the roundtables discussions.
First of all, the jump freighters will be able to use stargates so they can enter highsec.
The target construction cost is 3.6bill + invention.
They will need T2 capital components for construction and those will be released as BPOs and use the current lowend/unused reactions from moon mining to balance up that part of the market.
The skill requirement will be freighter 4 not freighter 5.
I think that cover most about the T2 freighters.
If your lying you might possibly be a dead man.
-dbp |
|
CCP Chronotis
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 09:52:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Dominique Vasilkovsky
The skill requirement will be freighter 4 not freighter 5.
Nice to meet you, hope you enjoyed it :)
I would just like to add an addendum, that we have not set that in stone yet, so it may change but we are currently thinking the skill time is a little harsh, there is blogs due out, on their production and use which we should hopefully get out in the next few days.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |