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Franga Caldari NQX Innovations Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:04:00 - [151] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Carriers then Nanos and then Cap Boosters. What's next? Huh? What the hell is happening to cap-boosters? _____________________________ Eldo spanked my sig but I can't be bothered changing it just now.
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:05:00 - [152] Edited by: Flinx Evenstar on 29/10/2007 21:05:30
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:21:00 - [153] Originally by: d026 Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 20:56:06 Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 20:55:49 Originally by: Flinx Evenstar Originally by: d026 1st fight. who is the nanogang? 2nd fight. see they had to out blob you 19 to 5 to win this one.. and please please refrain from posting additional kb stats they prove nothing anyway.. 1. Us obviously 2. No they didn't blob us...we engaged them. That is what nano gangs are good for...remember. This blob knew what it was doing and had a goof FC. And yes of course KB stats prove nothing We should just take your work for it. How about you back up some of your remarks with statistics. So far.."nanos are bad, cause I can't kill every ship in my BS" is the best you got nanos are bad because there is NO counter available to my ship or any other ship out there (except for the huginn in combination with a tackler) resulting in a nanos destruction. A rokh would make short notice of any nanoship. Even for my crow, 250 Km is still a bit much to cover... But if you doubt we could certainly show you how it's done
slip66 Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:23:00 - [154] nerf the snakes not the ships or get rid of them. Thats whats giving the imbalance. Originally by: StOrM ViPeR Theres a skill called surgical strike in game I've learned that it actually stands for Band of Brothers
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:24:00 - [155] Originally by: Flinx Evenstar Originally by: d026 nanos are bad because there is NO counter available to my ship or any other ship out there (except for the huginn in combination with a tackler) resulting in a nanos destruction. Or NOS..or neuts...or tracking disruptors, or jamming, or a fast ship You are right....no counter this does not kill it. you still need to be withing 10k web rang (and have luck that his inertia does not push him out of web range). all couners you listed just make him move away but dont kill him..
mechtech Silver Snake Enterprise	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:25:00 - [156] I agree, speed tanking is a balanced and fun part of the game, but snakes might push it a little over the top. To be fair though, they are amazingly expensive.
El Mauru Amarr A Black Knight Corp FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:28:00 - [157] Meh- I think Vagas and 0mgfast inties are a typical case where a "slight" nerf is in order without screwing up the entire concept. Slight "nerf" as in a even steeper curve of diminishing returns after hitting 6k ms. - Recruiting! Convo ingame for details
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:33:00 - [158] Originally by: MITSUK0 ECM drones, heavy neuts, overheated webs, piloting skill, interceptors, remote tanking/logistics, co-ordinated flying, weapons capable of dealing damage out to ~26km, killing drones first. Those are just a few counters, some work solo, some work for gangs, all of them work when you do it right. Also if a nano ship attacks you at a gate you allways have the option to de-agress and leave. If a vaga is shooting you then transversal is low and you can shoot back. If an ishtar/curse is orbiting you, kill his drones. The fight will not allways result in a killmail but saying there are no counters to speed setups is stupid. You suck. ECM drones: do not kill him (warps off) heavy neuts: dont kill him (warps off) overheated webs: vaga does not need to overload his modules either.. piloting skill: only works if you are fast aswell (thus another vaga) interceptors: vaga does not have to relay on a interceptor either. remote tanking/logistics: does not kill the vaga (warps off) co-ordinated flying: imbalanced because you need at least 2 to kill 1. weapons capable of dealing damage out to ~26km: does not kill a vaga (he warps off).
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:37:00 - [159] Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 21:41:53 balance will only ever be achived if they introduce a module forcing a vaga to commit to a fight. as long as such module is not available (or only in form of the combination of 2 other ships) the ship and the idea of flying fast is broken. its not that you would die to every ship everyday.. (lets say a specialized module reaching out far enough to be able to catch up on you) but you wont have granted succes (on form of a killmail or escape) everytime you face a enemy/prey! no it wouldnt be the end of the nanofag. but you could LOSE your ship.. so eventough you use your cookycutter setup ther could be a mean guy fitting especially just to blow you to pieces.. thats pvp.
Phoenix Jones	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:43:00 - [160] That wouldn't be possible, because it detriments all ships, as well as yourself cause now you'll have to have the dang module on. ---------------The Low Sec Issue------------- Gatecamps that kill all who pass with no remorse and in many cases, no possible way of retaliation, is not PVP.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:44:00 - [161] Originally by: d026 Originally by: Drasked Guys, you bring your normal gang + 1 huginn wich is nanod or tanked and now the opposing team can't do jack.. I just dont see the problem when the counter is so simple, 1 huginn. to kill a deimos with fit a i use fit b on my muninn. to kill a sacrilege with fit c i use fit d on my deimos. to kill a vagabond in a sacrilege i need a huginn/rapier. dont this strike you odd? And to kill a rook you use....what? Your muninn and 4 buddies? OMG nerf ecm, clearly OP because I cant solo it with just any ship. signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected])
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:44:00 - [162] Originally by: Phoenix Jones That wouldn't be possible, because it detriments all ships, as well as yourself cause now you'll have to have the dang module on. its not that you only fight nanos he whole day so usualy you wold probably fit a webber instead.. at least it would add some spice to the nano pilots life.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:46:00 - [163] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: d026 Originally by: Drasked Guys, you bring your normal gang + 1 huginn wich is nanod or tanked and now the opposing team can't do jack.. I just dont see the problem when the counter is so simple, 1 huginn. to kill a deimos with fit a i use fit b on my muninn. to kill a sacrilege with fit c i use fit d on my deimos. to kill a vagabond in a sacrilege i need a huginn/rapier. dont this strike you odd? And to kill a rook you use....what? Your muninn and 4 buddies? OMG nerf ecm, clearly OP because I cant solo it with just any ship. eccm and shred it to pieces.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:50:00 - [164] Originally by: d026 heavy neuts: dont kill him (warps off) Only to find out the battleship also happened to carry a domi scram that just overheated to 36km. Quote: overheated webs: vaga does not need to overload his modules either.. Overheating is a TOOL, thats like saying drakes dont need to fit a shield booster and can passive tank is imba because I do on my maelstrom. Really makes a lot of sense. Quote: piloting skill: only works if you are fast aswell (thus another vaga) Try formation flying instead of lock primary f1-f8. Quote: interceptors: vaga does not have to relay on a interceptor either. And the vaga needs gangmates to break anything remotely tanked. I guess battleships are imba cause they dont need another gangmate to do omgwtfdps. Quote: remote tanking/logistics: does not kill the vaga (warps off) You put the remote rep on the huginn. Quote: co-ordinated flying: imbalanced because you need at least 2 to kill 1. I guess then every force recon is imba(you need 2 to kill 1), and ecm is imba, I'd like to see you solo a scorpion or a rook/falcon, or an arazu, lachesis.... get my point? You forgot one, overheated faction webs, webs out to 20km, pretty ******* useful, you only need to be moderately fast. Vaga orbitting you at 17km? Mwd towards him and hit the web, he will NOT be able to get away. signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected])
TheAdj Endless Destruction Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:53:00 - [165] I'm not reading the entire thread to see if this was pointed out, but most of the "good" ceptors can outrun a vaga setup like this. I can fit a claw to outdo that for 1/3 the price of a vaga hull alone. In fact that's not even "that" fast for a vaga, I've seen several going faster than that. Just accept that certain minmatar ships are going to go insanely fast and counter it appropriately. See what happens if a huginn pops up nearby, that vaga will run the opposite direction as fast as possible because he knows he would be toast against it. Of course a vaga can outrun your lol ratting raven, that's the point of the ship. Also of note, the claw and the sabre can both track and hit with autocannons at maximum speed, some people seem to think otherwise. Not sure about the vaga because I don't fly one (yet), but those two can definitely hit while orbitting with a MWD on. ---------------- Alliance Killboard
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:55:00 - [166] Originally by: d026 Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 21:47:11 Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: d026 Originally by: Drasked Guys, you bring your normal gang + 1 huginn wich is nanod or tanked and now the opposing team can't do jack.. I just dont see the problem when the counter is so simple, 1 huginn. to kill a deimos with fit a i use fit b on my muninn. to kill a sacrilege with fit c i use fit d on my deimos. to kill a vagabond in a sacrilege i need a huginn/rapier. dont this strike you odd? And to kill a rook you use....what? Your muninn and 4 buddies? OMG nerf ecm, clearly OP because I cant solo it with just any ship. eccm and shred it to pieces. and in fact eccm works at every range quit like webs no? WRONG. Lets say you fit 2 ECCM(the most paranoid setup ever that gimps u against everything else), you can kick a muninn's sensor str to 50. On a rook you have around 13.5 jam str/racial, with just 3 racials the rook has a a 62% chance to jam you, more if he wants to toss more racials on or had some multispecs. signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected])
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:57:00 - [167] Quote: Only to find out the battleship also happened to carry a domi scram that just overheated to 36km. nonesns to balance the game arround faction items. faction should give you an edge and should never be mandatory. Quote: Overheating is a TOOL, thats like saying drakes dont need to fit a shield booster and can passive tank is imba because I do on my maelstrom. Really makes a lot of sense. same as fatcion gives you an edge but should not be mandatory. Quote: Try formation flying instead of lock primary f1-f8. to kill my eagle the vaga also should be forced to bring a full wing of hugins and arazus Quote: And the vaga needs gangmates to break anything remotely tanked. I guess battleships are imba cause they dont need another gangmate to do omgwtfdps. fit gyrostabs if you are not happy with your dps. Quote: You put the remote rep on the huginn. Does the vaga need a Huginn to kill anything? Quote: I guess then every force recon is imba(you need 2 to kill 1), and ecm is imba, I'd like to see you solo a scorpion or a rook/falcon, or an arazu, lachesis.... get my point? you dont need 2 to kill a force recon.
Chr0nosX Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 22:01:00 - [168] Edited by: Chr0nosX on 29/10/2007 22:03:00 I <3 my nano ishtar though. It's called a Huginn or Rapier - one or two mixed in with other ships will kill a nano gang, dead. Another counter is being introduced soon - the mini EW frigate and neuts also can kill easily a nano ships cap.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 22:06:00 - [169] Originally by: Gamesguy WRONG. Lets say you fit 2 ECCM(the most paranoid setup ever that gimps u against everything else), you can kick a muninn's sensor str to 50. On a rook you have around 13.5 jam str/racial, with just 3 racials the rook has a a 62% chance to jam you, more if he wants to toss more racials on or had some multispecs. thats not the point. if you really want, fit a whole rack of eccm and you can kill. but howsoever i fit my my rook i will never be able to beat the vaga if he does not make a ugly mistake. its not about if i can fit my ship and kill a vaga everytime. its just taht there must be a setup for every other hac that can handle a vaga and KILL it no matter how impractical this setup is in any other situation. and no there should be only TII involved, faction should not be mandatory.
LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.10.29 22:06:00 - [170] Edited by: LUH 3471 on 29/10/2007 22:06:35 nerf whiners boost evrything else
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.29 22:08:00 - [171] Originally by: d026 nonesns to balance the game arround faction items. faction should give you an edge and should never be mandatory. Ok, then in this debate from now you are forbidden from talking about 10km vagas, since those requires snakes/faction mods. Quote: same as fatcion gives you an edge but should not be mandatory. Says who? Anybody can overheat if they have the skill for it. Quote: to kill my eagle the vaga also should be forced to bring a full wing of hugins and arazus Rook, solo it with a hac, just try. And you can solo a vaga with many ships. Nano-huginn, or another hac with a faction web that surprised it. I've seen a macheriel solo a vaga that didnt realize it had a faction web. Overheated to 20km, got webbed and neuted instantly, dead vaga. Quote: fit gyrostabs if you are not happy with your dps. Please show me how I can get 1300dps on a vaga. Nerf blasterthrons plz. Quote: Does the vaga need a Huginn to kill anything? Huginn can solo a vaga. Quote: you dont need 2 to kill a force recon. Please show me how you would solo a rook. signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected])
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.29 22:10:00 - [172] Originally by: d026 all couners you listed just make him move away but dont kill him.. Dude, a counter is to avoid dying.... As was stated, you will not die in decent BS to a solo Vaga...he cant hit you hard enough. Hence the nano gangs I can't kill a 3 month old guy in a T1 fitted drake if he trained right, despite the fact I trained for a year solid to fly vaga. It's not always about the killing...the drake lived...he countered me You seem to want to be able to KILL everything, but without looking at your history, I am sure you understand the game a bit better than that. Yes we fly nano gangs, but when it comes down to it..we still need BS to dish out the damage. Speed hacs are great but can only kill, badly tanked, badly skilled ships. So what if they run away....that is a counter, you made it go away, you defended your system or whatever
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.29 22:10:00 - [173] Originally by: d026 thats not the point. if you really want, fit a whole rack of eccm and you can kill it. You can? I wasnt aware you can kill anything with no warp disruptor. Quote: but howsoever i fit my my rook i will never be able to beat the vaga if he does not make a ugly mistake. its not about if i can fit my ship and kill a vaga everytime. its just taht there must be a setup for every other hac that can handle a vaga and KILL it no matter how impractical this setup is in any other situation. there should be only TII involved, faction should not be mandatory. You still havent proven how you can kill a rook yet, lets start with that first before you get ahead of yourself. signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected])
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.29 22:15:00 - [174] Edited by: Flinx Evenstar on 29/10/2007 22:15:49 I agree with the BOB guy...snakes do indeed need to be nerfed...they need a price nerf So...like around 2bil to fly a fully fitted snaked up vaga...and you wonder why it is good Thats around 8BS worth of ship, it doesn't do the dps of 8BS, it doesn't tank like 8BS It doesn't even go 8 times faster than a MWD mega....but the pilot is putting his isk where is mouth is. Your job is to kill him. And yes it can be done with around 300mil solo
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 22:19:00 - [175] Quote: Says who? Anybody can overheat if they have the skill for it. from now on if we have a balancing question we always include the 15 whatever % overheat. Quote: And you can solo a vaga with many ships. Nano-huginn, or another hac with a faction web that surprised it. faction again + overheat. Quote: Please show me how I can get 1300dps on a vaga. Nerf blasterthrons plz. yeah i usualy try to solo blastertrons in my cerb to.. Quote: Quote: Does the vaga need a Huginn to kill anything? Huginn can solo a vaga. But to kill a lets say Deimos does the Vaga need a Hugin? Quote: Please show me how you would solo a rook. i never tryed, im sure oyu can come up with a nasty setup. use ecm drones, damps and lots of eccm. But again. I dont understand why you oppose a module that could add some fun to your boring nanolife making fights les predictable.. Ahh yea i know why.. because suddenyl you could die!
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.29 22:24:00 - [176] Originally by: d026 But again. I dont understand why you oppose a module that could add some fun to your boring nanolife making fights les predictable.. Ahh yea i know why.. because suddenyl you could die! Boring nano life they allow us to fight against stupid odds You are the one that thinks that all ships should do the same speed and slug it out on a gate. Get an imagination, and you just might be able to kill a nano ship. You chose your char and skills. Sometimes I would love the ability to ALWAYS hit, but I dont begrudge those pilots that trained for missile specialization. Jesus, you want everyone to sit and activate tank while pressing F1-8 Nano ships require a lot of attention to fly. Drunk nano gangs get slaughtered Drunk tanking ships...well it dont matter, they can go afk to the fridge, and the tank still works
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.29 22:31:00 - [177] Originally by: d026 from now on if we have a balancing question we always include the 15 whatever % overheat. 30% actually, and you only need it for 1 or 2 cycles to get into normal web range, at which point you can turn it off. Quote: faction again + overheat. So? You can get a db web for the price of 2 poly rigs... Quote: yeah i usualy try to solo blastertrons in my cerb to.. I know, NERF cause you cant solo it! Quote: But to kill a lets say Deimos does the Vaga need a Hugin? There is no way a vaga can kill a deimos unless the deimos is ratting. It can simply wait out the agro timer and dock/jump. Quote: i never tryed, im sure oyu can come up with a nasty setup. use ecm drones, damps and lots of eccm. Vague handwavium. Give me a setup or stfu. Damps and lots of eccm? What ship are you flying that has so many mids? You mentioned the muninn and the deimos, those have THREE mids. Thats 1 eccm, 1 mwd, and 1 disruptor, thats assuming you dont use a web. Quote: But again. I dont understand why you oppose a module that could add some fun to your boring nanolife making fights les predictable.. Ahh yea i know why.. because suddenyl you could die! Yes because fighting 5 vs 15 is very borig indeed. signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected])
Yugami Constible	Posted - 2007.10.29 22:45:00 - [178] Ive been playing MMORPG's since UO's launch too now and have tried many different games since then. When People get this worked up over a Nerf X thread trying too defend whatever the OP wants nerfed it usually ends up in a Nerf'd because it is in fact Imbalanced in someway. The Vaga needs too either be nerfed, Cruisers speeds have diminishing returns as they get faster or something. From a Game design its a bit much, however Im going too hold off on the Nerf Nano's bit and wait until the expansion comes out and see if thiers Long Range Web'r before I decide this games broke and move on.
Klavis lychnuchus	Posted - 2007.10.29 22:48:00 - [179] Edited by: Klavis lychnuchus on 29/10/2007 22:49:05 Very seriously mr OP... ...Can I have your stuff?
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 22:51:00 - [180] Quote: Vague handwavium. Give me a setup or stfu. Damps and lots of eccm? What ship are you flying that has so many mids? You mentioned the muninn and the deimos, those have THREE mids. Thats 1 eccm, 1 mwd, and 1 disruptor, thats assuming you dont use a web. i agree seems quite difficult to put a setup togetter that works 100%. on the other hand how many soloing rooks do you see compared to vagas?

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