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William DeMeo
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2007.10.30 14:35:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Aya Otosaki
Originally by: Ione Hunt Stop trying to balance everything on the basis of 1on1s!
The Vaga has weak damage, and compared to other HACs a weak tank...it's main defense is speed, the whole ship is based on fighting behind enemy lines with increased risk of blobagge. It trades damage and tank for the ability to fight in those circumstances...which is perfectly fine.
Get a Huginn / Rapier and they run. Short of that, get some friends, it's a MMORPG after all
Damage is nothing, if i can bleed you to death i will. Survivability is everything, which the vaga has in spades.
It takes ages for a vaga to kill anything above a cruiser. Yarr |
Revolution Rising
Venture Research and Resources
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Posted - 2007.10.30 14:40:00 -
[62]
Think an arbitrator with 1 drone nav computer, 2 tracking disruptor 2's, 1 sensor booster and active hardeners has a chance 15 warrior I's (6k/sec)?
2 link augmentors (86km range).
Fighter/Miner.
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Hermosa Diosas
The-Secret-Service
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Posted - 2007.10.30 15:29:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Revolution Rising Think an arbitrator with 1 drone nav computer, 2 tracking disruptor 2's, 1 sensor booster and active hardeners has a chance 15 warrior I's (6k/sec)?
2 link augmentors (86km range).
Think vagabong 6km/s or above 200km out of range Wheres your drones and sensor booster now? Useless This is my poin they get out of range of anything so fast, i mean they can get 300km away from you in like no time. As i said i dont think 1v1 its possible to actually take a vaga down. unless you have another vaga perhps
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Haradgrim
Caldari The Wild Bunch INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2007.10.30 15:29:00 -
[64]
Fight fire with fire, use a vaga (plus support) to kill a vaga.
Your signature exceeds the byte me limit allowed on the forums-Darth Patches Oh Noes!
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burek
Magnificent Beavers
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Posted - 2007.10.30 15:37:00 -
[65]
Going against a vagabond in a hurricane, I wouldn't even consider getting killed for example.
And are they actually doing any damage to you when they are flying at 6k? Once they slow down to actually shoost you, then you can also shoost them back. WTF's the problem? Are you looking for a "use this specific ship and these specific modules but only on tuesdays and wednesdays" kind of answer?
People kill vagas all the time.
Just like the drake passive tank is so omg tough...
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.30 15:38:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Hermosa Diosas
Originally by: Revolution Rising Think an arbitrator with 1 drone nav computer, 2 tracking disruptor 2's, 1 sensor booster and active hardeners has a chance 15 warrior I's (6k/sec)?
2 link augmentors (86km range).
Think vagabong 6km/s or above 200km out of range Wheres your drones and sensor booster now? Useless This is my poin they get out of range of anything so fast, i mean they can get 300km away from you in like no time. As i said i dont think 1v1 its possible to actually take a vaga down. unless you have another vaga perhps
vagabond is a HIT and RUN ship form a HIT and RUN race. Give you a hint, the RUN word is there for a reason. Minmatar ships are WEAKER on direct confronattion against ANY other race equivalent ship, they traded that for a high chance of running away. that is BALANCE!!!
That is fact to almost all minmatar ships ( maelstrom is a bastard son), they are poor on direct confronation, they MUST be able to run.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Aya Otosaki
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Posted - 2007.10.30 15:58:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Aya Otosaki on 30/10/2007 16:00:34
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Hermosa Diosas
Originally by: Revolution Rising Think an arbitrator with 1 drone nav computer, 2 tracking disruptor 2's, 1 sensor booster and active hardeners has a chance 15 warrior I's (6k/sec)?
2 link augmentors (86km range).
Think vagabong 6km/s or above 200km out of range Wheres your drones and sensor booster now? Useless This is my poin they get out of range of anything so fast, i mean they can get 300km away from you in like no time. As i said i dont think 1v1 its possible to actually take a vaga down. unless you have another vaga perhps
vagabond is a HIT and RUN ship form a HIT and RUN race. Give you a hint, the RUN word is there for a reason. Minmatar ships are WEAKER on direct confronattion against ANY other race equivalent ship, they traded that for a high chance of running away. that is BALANCE!!!
That is fact to almost all minmatar ships ( maelstrom is a bastard son), they are poor on direct confronation, they MUST be able to run.
Yes if you mean balanced like dominating all the killboards balanced, then yes their balanced. Their balanced like a sabre they are. ----- Ignorance is my strength. |
Ione Hunt
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.10.30 16:02:00 -
[68]
Vagas don't have webs, so you can mostly slowboat back to the gate. If he tries to bump you, web/neut...if you don't have a web...well, you're not setup to fight a Vaga which is not the Vaga pilot's fault because you decided to fit salvagers instead of neutralizers
If you are not at a gate where you can slowboat back to the gate you have been caught at a belt. Which means you didn't watch local and used the scanner, which is also your mistake.
You can beat a Vaga if you fit your ship to do so. A gankathron has no issues killing a Vagabond, and I don't even need to web him. If he orbits at above 15k I will hit him just fine unless he uses his MWD, in which case his damage output will be laughable. If he orbits closer he'll get webbed and probably dies to 2 volleys.
The Vaga has weak points, and speed is the only thing that allows it to be somewhat useful for a very specific role...just like the Sac is the best tanker, the Deimos the damage king, and so on. _______________
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.30 16:47:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Ione Hunt Vagas don't have webs, so you can mostly slowboat back to the gate. If he tries to bump you, web/neut...if you don't have a web...well, you're not setup to fight a Vaga which is not the Vaga pilot's fault because you decided to fit salvagers instead of neutralizers
If you are not at a gate where you can slowboat back to the gate you have been caught at a belt. Which means you didn't watch local and used the scanner, which is also your mistake.
You can beat a Vaga if you fit your ship to do so. A gankathron has no issues killing a Vagabond, and I don't even need to web him. If he orbits at above 15k I will hit him just fine unless he uses his MWD, in which case his damage output will be laughable. If he orbits closer he'll get webbed and probably dies to 2 volleys.
The Vaga has weak points, and speed is the only thing that allows it to be somewhat useful for a very specific role...just like the Sac is the best tanker, the Deimos the damage king, and so on.
exaclty! If vaga would loose its speed it would need for example to do as much damage as a deimos to compensate. But that woudl be lame because we need more variety in game not copies of same ship.
And i don know aboutyour KB, but several others don have vagabonds even close to top killers.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.30 16:54:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Ione Hunt
You can beat a Vaga if you fit your ship to do so.
give me a eagle fit that kills a vaga.
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Aya Otosaki
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Posted - 2007.10.30 16:59:00 -
[71]
tri 1 aaa 1 outbreak 2, second by sabre another balanced ship rzr 3, fleet mega 1 and crow 2.
all this says to me at least that vaga is awesome and more balanced than most. ----- Ignorance is my strength. |
Ione Hunt
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.10.30 17:08:00 -
[72]
Originally by: d026
Originally by: Ione Hunt
You can beat a Vaga if you fit your ship to do so.
give me a eagle fit that kills a vaga.
Not every HAC in game is able to kill the other HAC. And how does a HAC vs HAC 1on1 decide if a ship is balanced or not anyway??
So Blasterthron can't kill a Machariel, big deal...there will be situations where a Blasterthron is better than a Mach and vice versa. It's the beauty of Eve, diversity!
If you whine about the Vaga's speed, Vaga pilots should be allowed to whine about how fast their tanks drop if being webbed.
So there's a ship in EVE that is hard to kill solo, no big deal, it's also a ship that can't kill that much solo.
_______________
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Grishnarg
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Posted - 2007.10.30 17:38:00 -
[73]
I know of a weapon that is perfect for this. A bat, the nerfbat to be precise!!! WTF, why does a question of how to kill a ship turn into "nerf this, nerf that, boost this, make this nber" to be able to kill it?? There is always a way, and that is what can be fun; find a way to take it down, and not whine about overpowered ships, or weak modules or bad guns.....
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DeadDuck
Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.30 18:12:00 -
[74]
I really dont bother to hunt the fast vagabonds... when they orbit you at 5000 m/s they cant hit you and you cant hit them. If they go slower they can hit me and I can kill them .
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Gralg Merglen
Minmatar Fusion Enterprises Ltd Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.10.30 18:36:00 -
[75]
tracking disruptors.
Originally by: Graalum
I can also confirm that the guristas pirates have a titan. We tried to kill it but unfortunately it mwded away at 5k/second and smacked us in local.
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Fenderson
Finite Horizon Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2007.10.30 19:50:00 -
[76]
there are lots of good counters:
1) heavy neutralizers will take out their cap and prevent them from using mwd, and they cannot hit outside heavy neut range.
2) 1 tracking disruptor will keep a vaga from being able to hit at high speeds
3) drop one or 2 snipers at 100-150 km and they will have no problem hitting
4) bring in a rapier or huginn
5) bring in a drake
6) once rev III comes out, you will also be able to tackle vagas with interceptors due to the disruptor range boost
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Remejiah
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Posted - 2007.10.30 20:00:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Kerosene 3rd Best way I've found is to have intel (3j head start preferrably), a bubble, a cheap alt in a cheap frig with lots of webs + mwd and my main in something that dishes out the hurt up to 20km range.
2nd best way is to not engage them in the first place because they are silly
Best way is to whine excessively on the forums to get them/speed tanking nerfed until the devs cave in and decide that vaga's are silly
CCP has already nerfed extreme speed tanks more than once, so it's reasonable to conclude they'll do it again.
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arbalesttom
Caldari Glauxian Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.30 21:05:00 -
[78]
NARFFFFF!!!!
========================= Weko Hast > fill a domi up with light suicide drones and drone navigation links arbalesttom > rofl!!! emo-drones?
DONT REMOVE MY SIGGIES!!! =========== |
Gort
Storm Guard Elite
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Posted - 2007.10.30 21:51:00 -
[79]
Sorry, but I flew Matari for two solid years where almost everything on the server kicked the crap out of me. I did not cry nerf once. Shut up and learn something.
Jesus, these endless nerf whines are really starting to get to me.
-- When in doubt, empty the magazine. |
Closer Still
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Posted - 2007.10.30 23:17:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Hermosa Diosas Edited by: Hermosa Diosas on 29/10/2007 22:17:57
5000km + what can you do? you cant web or scram, hitting them is difficult as they too fast or get out of any range quicker than blinking an eye.
So whats the answer?
****, 5000km? didnt think nanos could possibly get faster than 6-7km
but regardless, the answer lies in the doomsday device. nerf titans!!1one!
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Onewingedangel
Minmatar Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.30 23:43:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Onewingedangel on 30/10/2007 23:44:09 Edited by: Onewingedangel on 30/10/2007 23:43:19 You can't kill a vaga solo? Zomg, I think any ship a raven can't 1v1 should be nerfed.
Seriously, stop whining and use your brains. I think anything with a good tank should be nerfed, as it's a waste of ammo to shoot at a ship with a decent tank in a vaga.
Vagas need a damage boost so my ammo consumption is lower and I can fit more loot in my cargo hold.
Also, vagas need a better tank. I mean seriously, once I get webbed I die in like 10 seconds. Thats bull****. Cereally.
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Ipos
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Posted - 2007.10.30 23:52:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Ipos on 30/10/2007 23:55:53 Something like this,
You start packing for iceland, threaten CCP staff at gunpoint for the information on your vaga-pilot of choice. Once you've escaped the icelandic police and hopefully NOT killed zulupark (zulupark's death won't save your carrier!) it's time to visit your little friend, you could of course just have his SP set to 0 and spawn 2000 cruise missiles on his pod but that wouldn't be fun now would it (okay maybe a little bit)?
Once you're outside of his doorstep, diguised as an UPS delivery guy, wait for him to open up -then shoot him in the foot and run around him in circles screaming "It ain't so funy now, is it? b****!!!".
- Aaaand there you have it folks.
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Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.31 01:14:00 -
[83]
Originally by: d026
give me a eagle fit that kills a vaga.
Hi d026, since you ran away from the other speed whine thread where I smashed this argument on its face, here it is again.
Give me a vaga fit that kills a rook, or a muninn fit, or a deimos fit, or a zealot fit.
Oh hell, howabout you give me a zealot fit that can kill a muninn(ya good luck with that), or a retribution fit that can kill a wolf or jag?
signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected]) |
Karandor
Minmatar Wildlands Heavy Technologies FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2007.10.31 01:21:00 -
[84]
meh screw solo in a vaga, gang warfare as heavy tackler and popping ECM, dictors and other light targets is where it shines. When you kill an enemy frig that warps in at 100km and fails to notice you charge him it's pure gold. I have made my TS cheer just from LOL shuttle kills like that.
Don't ***** about having to train a lot of skills until you fly minmatar. |
Ipos
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Posted - 2007.10.31 01:27:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Ipos on 31/10/2007 01:28:37
Originally by: Gamesguy Give me a vaga fit that kills a rook, or a muninn fit, or a deimos fit, or a zealot fit.
Oh hell, howabout you give me a zealot fit that can kill a muninn(ya good luck with that), or a retribution fit that can kill a wolf or jag?
That argument is bent seeing how for example an Eagle will have to struggle with many other ships aswell. The real difference between the two (and all other speed vs non-speed fits)is that the Eagle cannot so easily run away when the opposition is overwhelming.
- Who cares if you can't kill some ships when you can easily avoid them? That's why so many ppl are opposed to speed fits and have been requesting more counters to them since they're nearly risk-free to fly (nothing should be seems to be the philosophy in EVE).
EDIT: Seriously.. preview post.. grr typos.
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Alyxa Mahan
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Posted - 2007.10.31 08:43:00 -
[86]
Seriously guys, if Vagabonds really had such a low damage output and are only good for running as people keep claiming, they wouldn't show up on any killboards, and noone would complain that they're maybe a bit overpowered, now wouldn't they?
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.31 10:10:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Aya Otosaki tri 1 aaa 1 outbreak 2, second by sabre another balanced ship rzr 3, fleet mega 1 and crow 2.
all this says to me at least that vaga is awesome and more balanced than most.
I don't fly with tri, but i fly with AAA, and if you saw the HUGE ammount of vagabonds they use in LARGE groups, you would see why of that. ANY other hac if used on same numbers would end on their top 3. Its not a matter of being overpowered, its a matteroof taste, its a fun ship to fly and they like to fly this style of ships, FUN ships. Not boring sit f1-f7 dotn even bother with your apssive tank, style of combat.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
WowZilla
The Leeroy Jenkins Project
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Posted - 2007.10.31 10:55:00 -
[88]
LOL at all the whining n00bs moaning about the vaga.
Seriously, if you cant figure out why its not overpowered, why it is actually a very BALANCED ship and how all HACS have their own roles then you really have no grasp of this game at all.
You therefore fail at eve. GAMEOVER4U
____________________ I am the worst poster |
Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.31 11:59:00 -
[89]
On the subject of vagabond's damage output:
The raw output that I can get, with 2 Gyro II's, 5 220mm II's and HML II with Barrage and Caldari Navy heavy missiles is 403 DPS. This is with Rapid Firing V, Surgical Strike V, Heavy Assault Ships V, Medium Autocannon Specialization IV, +5% medium projectile damage and +5% all turret damage hardwirings. That is, getting any more is nigh impossible in practice.
Vagabonds orbit at approximately 20 km or so, which puts their falloff penalty to roughly 50%, resulting in effect in halved DPS. They will only be able to track if they are not running the MWD. In other words, 200 DPS is the average vaga will get.
For comparison, one Large Armor Repairer II (or two Medium Armor Repairer II's) with no rig or ship bonuses at average resistances of 60% can sustain 178 DPS. With avg. resistances of 70% that rises to 237. For anything bigger than Tech 1 Cruisers, this is considered a light tank. For a practically max skilled Vaga to struggle with such a tank is more than fair a tradeoff (not to mention how long getting through any significant amount of effective hp takes). ---
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Aya Otosaki
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Posted - 2007.10.31 12:37:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Aya Otosaki tri 1 aaa 1 outbreak 2, second by sabre another balanced ship rzr 3, fleet mega 1 and crow 2.
all this says to me at least that vaga is awesome and more balanced than most.
I don't fly with tri, but i fly with AAA, and if you saw the HUGE ammount of vagabonds they use in LARGE groups, you would see why of that. ANY other hac if used on same numbers would end on their top 3. Its not a matter of being overpowered, its a matteroof taste, its a fun ship to fly and they like to fly this style of ships, FUN ships. Not boring sit f1-f7 dotn even bother with your apssive tank, style of combat.
Yup hard core gamers use fun ships. fun = winning. ----- Ignorance is my strength. |
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