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Amaroq Dricaldari
Total Annihilation. Pandorum Invictus
13
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Posted - 2012.01.27 03:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Here we can discuss ideas on how to make the game accessible for Free-to-Play people while still making it worth it to have a Premium account (aka Paying to play the game). Example ideas:
Free-to-Play (Piloting Permit): - Equivalent to a Trial Account, but with infinite playtime
Premium (Pilot's License): - Test Server Access - Access to more equipment and skills and the like (Super-Caps, Strategic Cruisers, Tech II Ships, etc) - The ability to invite players - Exclusive Access to In-Game Meta-Game things (like Pirate Characters) - The Ability to start an alliance - Level X Missions
The list goes on.
This, combined with the creation of a 'Light Client' (wouldn't replace the full client), would increase the number of players from around the globe. Obviously, the server would need some improvements to keep up with a growing population of players, but some extra cash flowing in would solve that problem. In fact, why don't we all do something to spread the word of the game? This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
Valea Silpha
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
29
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Posted - 2012.01.27 04:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think you would find it would not particularly increase the number of players, but would increase the number of people with drake and maelstrom alts to bulk out fleet sizes. Cuz, seriously, why wouldn't you ? |
Amaroq Dricaldari
Total Annihilation. Pandorum Invictus
13
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Posted - 2012.01.27 04:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
It would attract more players for sure. I know it will.
Everytime a game that used to cost money became free, WAY more people started playing it. Take a look at TF2 for example. Obviously, it isn't the best example seeing as most Free-to-Players in that game are winey brats, and the difference between F2P accounts and Premium Accounts isn't that great, but there is still alot of potential to this idea.
In addition, better advertising would most certainly help. In fact, I am actually planning on making a few posters for the game. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
450
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Posted - 2012.01.27 05:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
FTP is a ****** business model, small budget of resources putting out crappy content that rakes in more cash from people willing to blow money on anything, like cows eatting grass but grass is grass no matter how you dress it up.
BTW, EVE is FTP. Buy at least 3 months worth of game, learn to play the ******* game, make isk, transfer isk via PLEX (OMFG YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT!!!) and Bob is your uncle. You can even scam for that isk in your first 2 week trial, make a few billion and off you go...didn't spend a dime you cheap ass. |
Amaroq Dricaldari
Total Annihilation. Pandorum Invictus
13
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Posted - 2012.01.27 05:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:FTP is a ****** business model, small budget of resources putting out crappy content that rakes in more cash from people willing to blow money on anything, like cows eatting grass but grass is grass no matter how you dress it up.
BTW, EVE is FTP. Buy at least 3 months worth of game, learn to play the ******* game, make isk, transfer isk via PLEX (OMFG YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT!!!) and Bob is your uncle. You can even scam for that isk in your first 2 week trial, make a few billion and off you go...didn't spend a dime you cheap ass. Dude, calm the **** down. Not everyone knows how to make a shitload of ISK in 2 weeks. And not everyone is a natural at scamming.
Just out of curiosity, do you actually play the game? I looked at your profile, and you have no bio, you have no portrait, you were in the same newbie corporation for years, you have a completely neutral security status, and as far as I can tell you have no standings with anyone. Maybe you should get out of that newbie station and run a mission or two.
Also, I did know about PLEX, thank you very much. And I don't have any relatives named Bob. And by Free-to-Play, I meant an actual Free-to-Play, not scamming for ISK and then stocking up on PLEXs so that you can keep your account active and not use it for anything.
I actually use my characters for things, I actually earn my money, I actually play the game and look at the things that are wrong with it and talk about how to fix them.
--------------------
And before you call me a troll, just look at yourself and how you talk to people. You could offend someone. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released 0ccupational Hazzard
427
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Posted - 2012.01.27 05:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Amaroq Dricaldari wrote:Aqriue wrote:FTP is a ****** business model, small budget of resources putting out crappy content that rakes in more cash from people willing to blow money on anything, like cows eatting grass but grass is grass no matter how you dress it up.
BTW, EVE is FTP. Buy at least 3 months worth of game, learn to play the ******* game, make isk, transfer isk via PLEX (OMFG YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT!!!) and Bob is your uncle. You can even scam for that isk in your first 2 week trial, make a few billion and off you go...didn't spend a dime you cheap ass. Dude, calm the **** down. Not everyone knows how to make a shitload of ISK in 2 weeks. And not everyone is a natural at scamming. Just out of curiosity, do you actually play the game? I looked at your profile, and you have no bio, you have no portrait, you were in the same newbie corporation for years, you have a completely neutral security status, and as far as I can tell you have no standings with anyone. Maybe you should get out of that newbie station and run a mission or two. Also, I did know about PLEX, thank you very much. And I don't have any relatives named Bob. And by Free-to-Play, I meant an actual Free-to-Play, not scamming for ISK and then stocking up on PLEXs so that you can keep your account active and not use it for anything. I actually use my characters for things, I actually earn my money, I actually play the game and look at the things that are wrong with it and talk about how to fix them. -------------------- And before you call me a troll, just look at yourself and how you talk to people. You could offend someone.
He makes one good point though; EVE is pretty much free to play as it is.
I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
946
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Posted - 2012.01.27 11:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Off topic posts removed. Please stay on topic, thank you. CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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TheBlueMonkey
Natural Progression
11
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Posted - 2012.01.27 13:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
run missions, buy plex, free to play.
Sure alot of people sign up to "free 2 play" games but how many are actually active? How many get pissed off with the advert spam\limitation of not investing money?
Free to play is a horrible business model that's just been brought about but investors wanting a better return on their money at the expense of a game being fun or engaging (99% of the time).
Name me one free to play game that's actually better than an alternative that costs money. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
270
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Posted - 2012.01.27 13:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Eve is already F2P thanks to the way PLEX work, as already stated.
If a perpetual trial mode was to be introduced the limits on what the account could train would have to be gimped quite severely compared to current trials .. today there is no reason to exclude many skills simply because no trial lasts long enough to reach them but with no time limit .. |
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
50
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Posted - 2012.01.27 13:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
I dread to think of the horrors this would unleash on us, no thanks. It's bad enough now with the crying about realising that the game isn't Hello Kitty Online. |
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XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
145
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Posted - 2012.01.27 13:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
Get out. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
5575
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Posted - 2012.01.27 15:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Eve is already free to play, if you make enough ISK and buy a plex.
You're basically asking for free SP training time, without any payment. No thanks, it's yet another bad idea.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Yaris San
3
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Posted - 2012.01.27 17:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
Free to Play
The game exactly is it is now but with 3 restrictions:
1. Certain skills cannot be trained (Same as with trial now.)
2. No skill can be trained to level 5.
3. Skill training time takes twice as long.
If you pay for a month then the above restrictions are lifted.
If you love to make stuff more complicated you can add further restrictions like only 1 character slot and a limit on wallet but I don't think its necessary. The skill restrictions are enough to motivate someone to pay.
"All this has happened before, and all this will happen again."
So say we all. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
127
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Posted - 2012.01.27 17:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
oh yeah, I want too empire suicide fleets for my own for free. |
Kendal Hala
Basement Chemists
1
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Posted - 2012.01.28 00:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
Another restriction could be a SP cap, enough to get a few months worth of training in. Would be similar to level caps on other Free-to-Play games. |
Amaroq Dricaldari
Total Annihilation. Pandorum Invictus
16
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Posted - 2012.01.28 22:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Why am I one of the only people on these forums who doesn't go around trolling people's ideas for no reason? This topic features a good idea, but so many people are too stupid to realize that. Their minds work like this:
Quote:"Hey, look! Inovation! Time to be a complete jackass and troll it! You are all SO glad I am not a member of the CCP Staff...
Back to my idea.
The reason I am suggetsing this is because it would make the game more accessable (obviously), and it might even make it more popular. I don't see anything wrong with my restrictions, with one or two exceptions. How would you be able to get all of that done on a standard 14-day Trial Account? That is why I'm limiting that kind of stuff to 'Premium' Accounts.
And PLEXs take alot of money to purchase in-game. Not only that, but they don't magically show up in the game. You have to buy them with real money first. So when you are buying someone's PLEX, they are practically spending their money for your account.
Besides, who the hell makes 450 Million ISK in 14 days? And I don't mean a 14-day timespan after playing for several months, I mean when your account is less than a month old. As far as I am aware of, the only legit way you can get that much ISK in 14 days is by running Level 4 missions non-stop. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3013
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Posted - 2012.01.28 23:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sorry the only way Ill ever accept free to play is WiS.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
6000
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Posted - 2012.01.28 23:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
Amaroq Dricaldari wrote:Why am I one of the only people on these forums who doesn't go around trolling people's ideas for no reason? This topic features a good idea, but so many people are too stupid to realize that. Their minds work like this: Quote:"Hey, look! Inovation! Time to be a complete jackass and troll it! No, that's how your mind works. We simply don't like and or agree with your idea.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
100
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Posted - 2012.01.29 05:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
This is a bad idea, it'll be abused so badly that you won't recognize the Eve that results. If you really think that Eve is dying, let it pass in piece and not the train wreck that would happen if F2P were introduced. |
Ai Shun
206
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Posted - 2012.01.29 07:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
Serge Bastana wrote:I dread to think of the horrors this would unleash on us, no thanks. It's bad enough now with the crying about realising that the game isn't Hello Kitty Online.
I'm inclined to agree with this. PLEX already affords a skilled pilot the opportunity to play for free. And the recent forum threads have shown an alarming influx of players who are not here for EVE Online, but who are seeking to escape their former MMOs while re-creating it here. In other words, those looking for a PvE game. I wouldn't want to give more of them the opportunity, at least not this way.
Rather have more focussed advertising. But then, the people that would play EVE finds out about it. I'm on the fence on this. |
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
929
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Posted - 2012.01.29 10:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
Valea Silpha wrote:I think you would find it would not particularly increase the number of players, but would increase the number of people with drake and maelstrom alts to bulk out fleet sizes. Cuz, seriously, why wouldn't you ?
Neither the battlecruiser nor battleship skills are trainable on trial accounts, why would they be trainable (or usable) on playing-for-free accounts?
Trial accounts can not:
- Use contracts
- Give money
- Use research skills
- Request missions from L3 or higher agents
- Cloak
- Light a cyno
If those restrictions were in place for playing-for-free accounts (i.e.: if your cyno alt's subscription expires, it can no longer fly any T2 ship, can't use a cyno, etc. I would add Weapon Upgrades and Warhead Upgrades to the list of not-trainable-on-alt skills, thus shutting down the use of T2 weaponry by play-for-free pilots.
Playing-for-free accounts might need to be restricted from posting orders on the market (i.e.: restricted to only selling to buy orders or buying from sells) to prevent free alts being used for massive market manipulation attempts. Trial characters can currently post buy and sell orders quite freely, so all they need is the ISK to fiddle with the market: it is already possible to play the market with disposable trial alts.
There doesn't need to be an SP cap. Just disable the skills that can't be trained on trial accounts, and thus any skill that depends on that one. No more need for "hours for PLEX", the character can still log in and do something even if it is just sitting in station chewing the fat with corpmates.
EVE Online already has a thriving micro transaction economy courtesy of PLEX and the Market. More players getting blown up in frigates and cruisers can only be good for the game.
The use of low-skill throwaway alts for ganking, scouting, corp infiltration, etc will increase, certainly. I would expect that players would get attached to these F2P alts once they trained certain gateway skills: resub with PLEX for a month to get that T2-catalyst ganking alt out for another month of Hulkageddon merriment, and so on.
I expect the ability to be able to log on at any time without being reminded that you owe CCP money will encourage people to play. The desire to take that Rook out for another bout of PvP might be enough to get the player to subscribe. This would be especially useful if "Micro-PLEX" were available that allowed for a single week or day of subscription (I suspect a week-long subscription would be better, rather than having existing subscribers drop down to weekend subscriptions only).
It would be nice for people to expand upon the methods that they feel a F2P system would be exploited, so that it can be clearly seen that some exploits are easily dealt with, or others are simple game breaking. This commentary must be given in the light of the current environment where one can create a 51 day alt that is not restricted by trial account limitations. As an example: a 51 day account can train to fly a cloaked T1 frigate (about a week for Electronics IV and Cloaking 3), providing free/cheap eyes on a system entry point for the remaining 30-odd days of the subscription.
A 21 day trial character can fly destroyers and fit small weapons, providing a cheap and disposable suicide ganking alt, totally free of the restrictions in place regarding the biomassing of characters with negative security status. A F2P version of this alt would be able to fly that ship better (but with the added restriction of weapon upgrades, could not use T2 weapons).
The availability of PLEX doesn't really make EVE "Free to Play", though it does add the option of "Play to Pay".
And a reminder: trial characters (and thus, F2P under this model) are limited to frigates, destroyers, and cruisers. They cannot use T2 ships, can't post contracts, they can't even change the names of cans in space.
The (incomplete) list of current trial account restrictions is available in the EVElopedia. |
Taint
A Pack Of Wolfes
30
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Posted - 2012.01.29 18:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Pay and play, take it or leave it. Free to play is misguided. |
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
30
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Posted - 2012.01.30 02:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
no lifetime trial.
You'd think it be limiting but its not. I am taking advantage of a 60 day trial offer for an alt. Using nothing but non-trial skills I will make a very decent baseline alt. good fitting skills, nice combat skills for frgis for sure and maybe cruiser (I just eve mon'ed up t frigs since only planned ship they'll fly), etc.
End of 60 days I activate, throw in the trial locked skills for a month I have in mind (this basically will be an uber cyno alt, maybe a fun AF pilot as of current plan) plex the transfer and kill the account. 3 month train I pay 1 month for....not too bad a setup since its shotgunning with a paid account for the other uber cyno alt to stack an account with 2 cynos in the same time span.
Lifetime trial you are looking at some very high powered and free combat alts. Alts that can run along side your pay accounts as well if you have more than one computer. I have no problem with dual boxing....paying for 2 accounts by plex or rl money do waht you want. the game however does not need every pirate, alliance blobber, empire ganker with 2 computers spamming a free uber alt for life. they want that abiltiy....collect up the isk to plex as many accounts as they want to run.
Now you might say well kill 2 connections with 1 a trial from one connection. Apt/flat mates, cyber cafes/coffee house wireless services, one half of a couple trying to get their other halves to play eve.....lots of reasons why you will never see an IP block. |
Ai Shun
209
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Posted - 2012.01.30 04:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
Misanthra wrote:Alts that can run along side your pay accounts as well if you have more than one computer. I have no problem with dual boxing....paying for 2 accounts by plex or rl money do waht you want.
And with Windows 7 / Windows 2008 and Hyper-V, etc. running multiple virtual machines on one PC is a snap. It is just too easy to exploit this idea.
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
930
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Posted - 2012.01.30 12:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
More discussion of Free-to-Play options here: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01/29/eve-evolved-could-eve-online-go-free-to-play
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
930
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Posted - 2012.01.30 13:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
Misanthra wrote:Lifetime trial you are looking at some very high powered and free combat alts. Alts that can run along side your pay accounts as well if you have more than one computer. I have no problem with dual boxing....paying for 2 accounts by plex or rl money do waht you want. the game however does not need every pirate, alliance blobber, empire ganker with 2 computers spamming a free uber alt for life.
If a free to play option was available, do you think that the game really would see an influx of "uber alts" flying T1 fitted T1 cruisers? Sure, Zhek Kromtor would have a lot of fun, but how many people are actually prepared to spend the time and money setting up a collection of PCs capable of multi boxing EVE to that level?
At present, if you are capable of multi boxing you're likely to be paying for game time through PLEX and using the multi boxed accounts to spam missions or incursions or mining in order to raise the funds to pay for PLEX. Well, that or you just whip out the credit card to pony up a few hundred dollars a month for your hobby.
So here you have a bunch of people who wouldn't spend Gé¼17/month on EVE, and won't spend 4 hours a month running incursions specifically to pay for the account, but they could be tempted to spend the equivalent of Gé¼2 to unlock EVE for the weekend. Is the prospect of having more people to pew pew with really that horrible?
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Seismic Stan
30
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Posted - 2012.01.30 13:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
I think that a free-to-play model running concurrently with the existing subscription model could have huge benefits for EVE Online if implemented correctly.
With the right concept, it could dovetail well with the existing world, attracting a whole new demographic of casual players. Established EVE players would rightly have little to gain from F2P (balance/exploitation considerations would be paramount) and they are already in their gameplay comfort zone, so most won't be prepared to see beyond that for the potential benefits to the future of their gameworld. Hence these ideas tend being rejected by the status quo (see above comments). so don't be disheartened Amaroq.
I wrote an article on this same subject a few months ago. I'd like to see the introduction of non-capsuleer accounts with MT-purchasable skill-specific command crew enabling throttled access to aspects of EVE Online gameplay.
For those interested, I go into more detail on my blog here. I'd cut-and-paste it but Wall o' Text posts tend to make people cry around these parts.
Writer of Freebooted blog. Co-Creator of Tech4 News podcast. Former Co-host of Voices From the Void podcast. Author of Incarna: The Text Adventure. |
Raid'En
Apprentice Innovations
170
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Posted - 2012.01.30 20:11:00 -
[28] - Quote
some interesting idea, but i consider there's still too much holes to make this safe enough to be allowed.
and allowing PI is ridiculous ; price would drop so much that we paying players would lose the use of it. |
Zyress
Deaths Head Brigade Gryphon League
25
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Posted - 2012.01.30 22:10:00 -
[29] - Quote
Valea Silpha wrote:I think you would find it would not particularly increase the number of players, but would increase the number of people with drake and maelstrom alts to bulk out fleet sizes. Cuz, seriously, why wouldn't you ?
Not that I in any way endorse this idea, (Free to play is the last resort of a game that cannot compete in its genre), but BattleCruisers are not trainable on a trial account |
Zyress
Deaths Head Brigade Gryphon League
25
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Posted - 2012.01.30 22:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
Amaroq Dricaldari wrote:The reason I am suggetsing this is because it would make the game more accessable (obviously), and it might even make it more popular. I don't see anything wrong with my restrictions, with one or two exceptions. How would you be able to get all of that done on a standard 14-day Trial Account? That is why I'm limiting that kind of stuff to 'Premium' Accounts.
And PLEXs take alot of money to purchase in-game. Not only that, but they don't magically show up in the game. You have to buy them with real money first. So when you are buying someone's PLEX, they are practically spending their money for your account.
Besides, who the hell makes 450 Million ISK in 14 days? And I don't mean a 14-day timespan after playing for several months, I mean when your account is less than a month old. As far as I am aware of, the only legit way you can get that much ISK in 14 days is by running Level 4 missions non-stop.
You could get that much isk in 14 days salvaging level 4 missions |
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