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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
WhyTry1
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
56
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness. |
admiral root
Red Galaxy Important Internet Spaceship League
32
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
0/10 |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
1755
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
No that's a way to ensure that CCP cherry picks people they prefer for who knows what reasons. Maybe they'll choose an alliance mate, maybe a buddy from out of game forums, perhaps someone who agrees with their own vision for the game or maybe just some warm body they want to fill up with their Icelandic manseed. I'll take the people we voted to the CSM over that anyday thank you very much. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4595
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. No, the reason they rarely get voted in is because they can't capture an audience or a following and try to rely on their small corps/alliances to get them in rather than to run a proper campaign. History has show as much.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
WhyTry1
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
56
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tippia wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. No, the reason they rarely get voted in is because they can't capture an audience or a following and try to rely on their small corps/alliances to get them in rather than to run a proper campaign. History has show as much.
tippia gtfo out my thread, your opinion will never matter... now get out |
Ira Theos
Viziam Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness.
The problem you describe is the primary downside of "pure" Democracy, that being
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
This is why truly representative systems tend be more a form of Republicanism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republicanism
Yes, I agree that CCP should have a stronger hand in vetting and selecting the candidates based upon the theory that the CSM's function is to filter through ideas and opinions to CCP from various player segments of the game. As things are now, the Goons and certain Zero interests are too strongly represented. |
Orion GUardian
109
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hell yes let people without support get voted into office like.....ME! (or not)
Well isn't that how democracy works in the real world? People combine into larger entities called "parties" and get all their friends to vote for them? If you find it so unfair, then you should look at the american system. Only members of the two "alliances" Republicans and Democrats really have a chance of being elected anyhwere. Its like DRF and Goons isn't it?
TO be voted you need the following: VOTERS! No alliance candicate can FORCE his alliance to vote for him but they do nonthelesse, perhaps because they want him up there because he stands for their combined goals. SO if one candidate cannot get enough followers i.e. voters or bring enough people to see him/her as the one to stand in for them: he just isn't elected. THAT is how democracy works. It has nothing to do with rigged election..... |
WhyTry1
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
56
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Im sorry but learn about democracy! The only thing democratic is the freedom to vote. Apart from that you votes ARE GUARANTEED! its basically FIXED!! its your own damn alliance mates voting for you, therefore its FIXED!! |
Prince Kobol
175
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness.
No it isn't because all that would happen then is CCP would be accused of picking people who they have person relationships with.
|
Shazzam Vokanavom
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2012.01.28 16:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'd try and voice an opinion but it would just get chucked over into CSM Jita's corner to collect dust.
http://www.eveonline.com/download/devblog/CSM.pdf
Read the process and details for yourself. |
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Ira Theos
Viziam Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 16:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness. No it isn't because all that would happen then is CCP would be accused of picking people who they have person relationships with.
So you would prefer to have it populated with people who have a personal relationship with the Mittani?
(and before anyone asks, I'm not an alt of the OP and don't know him at all.) |
Dztrgovac
15
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Posted - 2012.01.28 16:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
This isn't tyranny of majority. This is 15% of game population being organized into strong blocks being guaranteed to take all CSM seats. Vast majority of players will know nothing about the candidates available and either vote randomly of just not vote. EVE was supposed to be a game and game is supposed to be fun. But CCP has given too much influence and importance to CSM causing them to actually have quite a impact on game development and balance. |
Zimmy Zeta
Battle Force Industries Tactical Invader Syndicate
788
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dztrgovac wrote:This isn't tyranny of majority. This is 15% of game population being organized into strong blocks being guaranteed to take all CSM seats. Vast majority of players will know nothing about the candidates available and either vote randomly of just not vote. .....
So, if there only were some kind of forum where those players could exchange their point of views and coordinate their votes so that they could use their advantage in numbers to get their candidates into the CSM..... Oh, wait.... -.- |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4596
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:tippia gtfo out my thread, your opinion will never matter... now get out It ceased being your thread the moment you posted on an open discussion forum. Don't want me to comment on the threads you invite me to comment on? Then sod off to somewhere where I don't post.
The fact remains: history proves your hysterics false. Just because people fail to attract any constituents doesn't mean the voting is rigged. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
WhyTry1
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
56
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tippia wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:tippia gtfo out my thread, your opinion will never matter... now get out It ceased being your thread the moment you posted on an open discussion forum. Don't want me to comment on the threads you invite me to comment on? Then sod off to somewhere where I don't post. The fact remains: history proves your hysterics false. Just because people fail to attract any constituents doesn't mean the voting is rigged.
fine keep posting, you will just be ignored. |
Tore Vest
163
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ofc CSM elections is rigged Highsec carebear... and proud of it |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4597
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:fine keep posting, you will just be ignored. Good idea. That cements my side of the argument without me having to do any work, since it just shows you're unable to address such a simple point. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Eternum Praetorian
Black Ops Trade Group
430
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness.
This is actually not the issue at all. The rigged part of the voting process comes from multiple account holders and accounts purchased with Plex, combined with ISK faucets that only Null Sec alliances have access to. Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences
|
Prince Kobol
175
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ira Theos wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness. No it isn't because all that would happen then is CCP would be accused of picking people who they have person relationships with. So you would prefer to have it populated with people who have a personal relationship with the Mittani? (and before anyone asks, I'm not an alt of the OP and don't know him at all.)
Your point is what?
Whether you hate or like The Mittani, the reason he is able to get so many votes is because of his influence in game.
Maybe in a few years if you have done as half as much as he has done then maybe you can get people to vote for you instead.
Also, if we follow your idea then the The Mittani is guaranteed a place on the CSM for life considering he is good friends with many CCP employees, so your idea is even more fail.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4597
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:This is actually not the issue at all. The rigged part of the voting process comes from multiple account holders and accounts purchased with Plex, combined with ISK faucets that only Null Sec alliances have access to. What ISK faucets would that be, seeing as how all faucets are a available in all space? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
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Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
the only "rigging" last year was through 4h reactivations and that hole was plugged rather quickly iirc |
Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1020
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
(Missed!) Snypa!
Confirming that voting for someone in your alliance is rigged voting and should be stamped out. How DARE you vote for someone you've actually gotten to know and respect, right? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2684
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness.
So your definition of "rigged" voting is one that someone wins just because more people vote for him?
And your definition of a "fair" election is one in which people are presented with a list of acceptable candidates and told they have to pick one?
OK Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Shazzam Vokanavom
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:This is actually not the issue at all. The rigged part of the voting process comes from multiple account holders and accounts purchased with Plex, combined with ISK faucets that only Null Sec alliances have access to. What ISK faucets would that be, seeing as how all faucets are a available in all space?
"If" we are led to beleive that the earning capability in Null sec is much better than others then in theory the provision of alt accounts by plexing is skewed in favour of that environment.
Interestingly couldn't be yet another motivation for the call to nerf various non-null faucets.
Maybe that is why Hulkageddon is not going to run this year, Mittens is spending all his plex on Alt accounts for the voting process? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4598
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:57:00 -
[25] - Quote
Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:Maybe that is why Hulkageddon is not going to run this year, Mittens is spending all his plex on Alt accounts for the voting process? Unlikely. It has been run just fine without him during previous years.
As for the earning capability, yes, the faucets generally pay out more in null than in highsec, but it's still the same faucets and they aren't quite as freely available as in empire space. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Ira Theos
Viziam Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Ira Theos wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness. No it isn't because all that would happen then is CCP would be accused of picking people who they have person relationships with. So you would prefer to have it populated with people who have a personal relationship with the Mittani? (and before anyone asks, I'm not an alt of the OP and don't know him at all.) Your point is what? Whether you hate or like The Mittani, the reason he is able to get so many votes is because of his influence in game. Maybe in a few years if you have done as half as much as he has done then maybe you can get people to vote for you instead. Also, if we follow your idea then the The Mittani is guaranteed a place on the CSM for life considering he is good friends with many CCP employees, so your idea is even more fail.
My point is that the Goons are over-represented in the CSM and always will be if CSM seats are determined by simple majority voting.
The Mittani's votes are due to his position as head cheese in SomethingAwful.com and has nothing to do with his position in Eve. He has this influence in any game the Goons touch solely by reason of this fact.
The Mittani hasn't "done" anything in Eve but coordinate Ass-Hattery.
and finally, if we follow my suggestion of Republican form of representation in choosing the CSM members, both the Eve community and CCP would benefit due to a more complete voicing of player segments as a result. |
Kessiaan
Greater Order Of Destruction Happy Endings
50
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 18:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness.
And this different from RL political parties how? My killboard - http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Kessiaan |
Killer Gandry
Shadow of the Pain
42
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 18:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
Don't you think that if your statements were true we would see more DRF representatives in the CSM?
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Prince Kobol
176
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 18:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ira Theos wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Ira Theos wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:I have no faith in the election voting process at all.
A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...
I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness. No it isn't because all that would happen then is CCP would be accused of picking people who they have person relationships with. So you would prefer to have it populated with people who have a personal relationship with the Mittani? (and before anyone asks, I'm not an alt of the OP and don't know him at all.) Your point is what? Whether you hate or like The Mittani, the reason he is able to get so many votes is because of his influence in game. Maybe in a few years if you have done as half as much as he has done then maybe you can get people to vote for you instead. Also, if we follow your idea then the The Mittani is guaranteed a place on the CSM for life considering he is good friends with many CCP employees, so your idea is even more fail. My point is that the Goons are over-represented in the CSM and always will be if CSM seats are determined by simple majority voting. The Mittani's votes are due to his position as head cheese in SomethingAwful.com and has nothing to do with his position in Eve. He has this influence in any game the Goons touch solely by reason of this fact. The Mittani hasn't "done" anything in Eve but coordinate Ass-Hattery. and finally, if we follow my suggestion of Republican form of representation in choosing the CSM members, both the Eve community and CCP would benefit due to a more complete voicing of player segments as a result.
The Mittani is the head cheese of the Something Awful forums.. OMFG !!!!!!
Jesus I am laughing so hard I nearly pissed myself lol
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2685
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 18:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
There are approximately 7000 members of GSF. Let's be generous and assume that every single one of these members belongs to a seperate account which can vote
There are approximately 350,000 active accounts which can vote.
"Goons" make up a massive TWO PERCENT of the voting population.
It doesn't matter how much hysterical hurfblurf people spout out about the sneaky evil goons rigging this or controlling that (where do they get the time? ) the plain, incontestable, inconvenient, annoying fact is that they got their guy elected because they got their asses in gear, got motivated, got organised, got their members to actually vote, and as a result they got their result.
All the fancy STV schemes and reserved seats and consituencies and yadda yadda won't count for **** unless the people who are bawwing their little eyes out about MEAN OLE MITTENS cut out the slacktivism and god damb well VOTE. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
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