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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.11.12 07:04:00 -
[1]
Could anyone said that this statistic statistic devblog is a lie? If not - then how can you say that "there is no amarr problem and their fine" Facts: - 4th overall place(from 4 total) in eve - horrible t1 ship statistic 35% less ships than even Minmatar have (they on 3d place btw - no need to tell about caldary\gallente) - No amarr ships on 1-2 places in class statistic /signed P.S. Dear Flooder. If u never played ammar as main char - not as puppet alt (btw - why?) - plz be quiet. Or go crying in gallente\caldary\minmatar nefr\boost topics - no need to show your incompetence to us (we allready aware of it). P.P.S. Dear developer - we are just mortals and cant understand your godly plans. Plz hear amarr prayers.... say something!
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.11.12 18:24:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 12/11/2007 15:06:57 [EDIT: Only 16% of characters are Amarr, this statistic may go some way to explaining the others.]
You showed best proof of a problem existence and you still refuse to understand it (or just dont whant to lose?). If 'amarr problem' is so small - why only 16% of all trying to play amarr from beginning (and how many of them learned now another race?) Doesnt realy mather how many amarr characters in eve. But why amarr ship is last that ppls use both in pve and in pvp?
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 12/11/2007 15:06:57 A webbed Amarr ship is still in a position to apply it's DPS in most engagements this is a big advantage
You realy belive that laser boat have so many capasitor so it can dps and tank in one time? Then you never played amarr.
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 12/11/2007 15:06:57 The speed of the Amarr battleships therefore is not much of an issue
Realy? And middle range combat without speed to create this range? Wait - we possibly can have speed advantage vs calday! WTF - they have missiles
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 12/11/2007 15:06:57 Each race does not have the best counter to each tactic. Though in this case Amarr have just as many good counters to close-range as anyone else
Wake up! Amarrs have no tactic and counter tactic. Becouse of that this tread (and many others) exists. (exept "middle range combat without speed for it, cap for tank and for turrets to kill any ship that have lower speed than we") Our tactic is "pray for miracle" (btw it helps sometimes)
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 12/11/2007 15:06:57 I hasten to add I don't fly Abaddons, but I've killed a few in my time. I seem to come across this a lot: 8x Mega Pulse1x Heavy Cap Booster, 100mn MWD, Scram, Web, 2x 1600mm Plate, 2x EANM, DC, 2x Heat Sink 3x Trimark
Funny - passive armour tank. But abaddon FORCED to use it anyway .Guess why...
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.11.14 12:57:00 -
[3]
I for some reason thought that developers should show elementary respect for a theme of race which does not exist for them. Silence is worse than any answer. I am disappointed. At amarr there is no single problem, but a heap of small lacks - and they are not visible for those who did not play for amarr at least up to a level of a battlecruiser. Bad tracking in close combat, an inconvenient distance of fight, useless combat strategy, the big consumption of capasitor by lasers, lack of bonuses by the ships, etc. Any of them separately - nothing important. But together they create the reason - why only 16 % of players are amarrs, and why most of them trained another race... and why themes like this are periodically created. Also it is the reason why for others "amarr problem" not present - it is impossible for all this to understand simply on EFT - it is necessary to play for our race (not just kill or been killed by amarr). P.S. I would like to apologize if my posts have offended someone - but it is really complex - to argue with foreigners in another's language at an another's forum, especially when you understand - that it is impossible to overpersuade the person with any arguments, because it does not understand them.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.11.15 10:07:00 -
[4]
Harbinger the worst tier2 BC. It is recognized even by those who does not see "amarr problem". Could someone compare tier1 BC or tier2-3 cruisers?
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.11.15 20:10:00 -
[5]
"Let's not forget that the Amarr are still waiting after over four years for their sixth T1 frigate." Whell - after four years i think we deserve tier4 BS or at least tier4 BC. About Khanid MC2 - they are not amarr ships - as someone sayed - no amarr without lasershow :) If we whant missiles - we will play caldary. For me this "boost" nefred unique amarr style for 2/3 of t2 ships. it is an example of "bad fixing" - instead of fixing lasers and laser related ship bonuses they just remove lasers from t2 ships
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.11.17 07:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: CCP Zulupark "I fly the Curse and the Pilgrim myself. I think the Curse is a damn fine PVP ship (I'd show you some pretty cool killmails if I could). The Pilgrim however might need some loving, especially in regards to the range it's doomed to fight at. But on the other hand, you have to realize that all the similar recons for the other races (falcon, arazu and rapier) have next to no damage output and are pretty useless solo." OMG - he flyed curse. Of course "is a damn fine PVP ship" at least was before nosf nefr. He flyed 1 of 3 amarr DRONE cruisers - and now all amarrs have no problem - and lasers have no problem - and real second ship bonus exists. I just understand why amarrs are still unfixed.... We all doomed
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.11.17 20:35:00 -
[7]
Another portion of solutions - just dreaming :) Firstly - removing "-laser cap use" and giving real second bonus, so that u can fly and shoot without 4-5 lvl of ship. many topic readers agreed that we need this boost just to stay in line with another racial ships. 1)new pulse lasers tactics - rapid fire weapon low to med range a)-50% damdgemod -50% rof (same dps - but greater speed and cap use) b)-120% capasitor use per shot (-50% to balance ship bonus - 50% to balance increased cap consumption, -20 minior boost). c)-25% weapon signature resolution (better tracking vs smaller targets) d)slightly reduced optimal and increased fallof (but opt+2fallof still same as today) 2)new beam lasers tactics - slow med to long range weapon a)+60% damagemod +60% rof (same dps, best instant damage, -60% cap usage - still greater than rails) b)slightly increased optimal and greatly (to lvl of pulses)decreased fallof (greater boost from track comp - but shoter randge without it) c)and some fixes in t2 pulse/beam crystalls (according new rof and optimal)
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.11.18 06:23:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ivanna Logoffski
Just fit Artillery or Autocannons on them and you have insane amount of cap left to run a tank.. Stop whining and think instead.
Brothers! I see the light! We must forget about ship bonuses compleatly and use another weapons. NO! We must forget about our ships and cross-train another race! Wait a minute - it is what we doing allready. "Stop whining and think instead" Dissmissed.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.11.20 10:34:00 -
[9]
Whell - 15 pages, 450 posts and no Dev answer. Looks like they just dont whant to boost amarrs at all (maybe becouse it means that they agreed - they ignored problem for all this years). Then another solution - nefring all other races(armageddon is near) What needs nefr - your suggestions. Maybe in this direction topic will have some attention? 8)
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.11.20 19:56:00 -
[10]
Interestingly, why people (not played for race) approve that amarrs have no problems, that amarr ships have enough cap for lasers and tank, that amarr players simply are not able to play well, etc. And after that they advise to fit autocanons and artis Try to fit lasers on your mega or tempese - forget about bonuses of the ships. Just try to play according your own advice. Maybe then youl understand (Though I doubt)...
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.11.21 18:16:00 -
[11]
Originally by: BattleBrotherKid why the heck does everyone keep taking this thread seriously? 0.o
Probably someone has gone mad. Either we all, or just you. Simply people want balance in game. Certainly ideal balance never will be - but we aspire to it. We try to show developers their lacks (it is a pity that they are engaged in debugging of graphic effects of trinity or something, instead of fixing core problems of game now - graphic is secondary) I realy dont want amarrs became the strongest race. I shall simply leave game if similar happens. But also i dont like that amarrs the weakest race - and it is visible to the majority of players (esteem 450 posts of a theme - in 430 people agree that are necessary to boost amarrs - disputes go only about ways). They should not be the strongest everywhere - simply they should borrow the niche in game. From that rebalance will win all. (Sry for translate - i know its awefull)
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.11.23 07:54:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Soulsfire Excelent post, great information. As I have Vista 64, I cannot run the figures using that program. This info helps a lot.
as you asked - exactly same fit, all skills at V resistence: em 88.5 thermal 81.4 kin 78.5, exp 77.1 96185 effective hp, (defence 343) 7969 cap total(79.6 consumption, 106.7 peac rechardge) dps 424 (turrets 310.5 drone 113.9) 2795 volley damage (but i think there is better setups for tachions)
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.11.23 22:54:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc Maybe the reason CCP don't respond is: 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.
Can be. But I think, if it was the truth, then developers would tell us. And their silence only denies your conjectures. You can criticize some correctness or abnormality of fit on the ships but while you have not played for amarrs - you will not see a problem.
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Not saying there isn't problems, but you've gone way overboard and proven nothing using these comparisons. Amarr DONT suck, SOME Amarr ships suck and definately not in the way you're saying.
As I also have told above - if you dont whant to see, then even oficial statistic devblog (where amarrs and amarrian ships on 3-4rth places in all categories) for you will be false...
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.11.23 23:38:00 -
[14]
Mila Prestoc To criticize is always mutch easy. OP has worked to make the comparisons, has proved them, has painted all this. Has proved on them that there is a problem with amarrs. Make the comparison of all ships (as well as OP) and prove that you are right and he was mistaken (and we shall criticize yours fit btw). While you not made it - all your critics - empty talk.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.11.24 08:53:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
No he hasn't, the whole method he's used is flawed, using fictional comparisons that don't reflect real gameplay, if you can't see that its your problem.
Yes yes yes - OP has written all continuous lie. All its comparisons are wrong. etc. In this tread 5-6 persons already spoke absolutely same things. But for some unknown reason noone from them has not told as it is possible to compare better. And nobody has tried to compare alternatively. Do not be "forum warrior" as well as they - prove that you are right. Of course OP comparison far from ideall. And ideal comparison is impossible . As I also spoke above - compare all - lay out results and right fit here on all ships then speak that OP liar.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.11.26 11:10:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Dude - its called Trinity for a Reason - Trinity meaning Three powerful, which is Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar!
Lets hope for the best - a Trinity it union of caldary missiles (half done) gallente drones (1\4 done) and speed of minmanar (hope for it) in one godlike race (quess who?).
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.11.30 12:12:00 -
[17]
Trinity patchnotes results - no light in the end of a tunnel Gallentians: nefred 2 ships (myrm and eos) but new fraction drones, new drone commands, improved ares, etc. - I consider that they have light boost after all. Caldary: many improvements in all (agility of the ships, the new torpedos, new bonuses for ecm recons, cap reduction for ECM, etc.) Minmatars and amarrs have allmost no direct changes. But it is 2 races that need them. It is not even Trinity - it is Power of Two
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.01 12:21:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Liam Liam yes it might get a small boost here and there
amarrs is only race that need many small boosts allmost in all aspects of their ships and guns. (only khanid ships are relativly ballanced... for caldary) but many smal boosts = average
Originally by: Liam Liam
1. Advise all new starts not to train Amarr ships / weapons 2. Crosstrain into something else ... just got minmitar frigate 5 .. lol
We also do so. But its not the solution of a problem.
Originally by: Liam Liam
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world The unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself
You want an easy life? Go play caldary from start - no need to cross-train from amarr build at all. This phrase does not concern to amarr. Amarrinas adapt world to themselves. We choose the most difficult way - to be proud of our victory in the end.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.02 07:34:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Aranbaal They can switch ammo types to the best one for teh job in a fraction of the time. Which means there guns are active more maing them the most effective.
1) it is good on paper. But there is old bug (it exist 4-5 years and still not fixed - ccp realy "loves" us) crystall jamming. Try to reload 8 lasers and only 3-4 of them actualy reloaded in the end. 2) 1 t2 or faction lenses market price is much greater than 100-200 t2/faction ammo. No difference in pve, but very expensive for pvp.
Originally by: Aranbaal
Also factor in that lasers dont need regular reloads in the fight gives the abaddon a better effective dps.
Reloading time allready included in dps (eft or qfit)
Originally by: Aranbaal
I havent included drones in this dmg because i for one never get to use drones.
And it was necessary. abaddon has 75m3 dronebay (3 heavy), mega - 125 (5 hvy) malestrom\hyper 100 (4 hvy) ogre 2 gives 63 dps with V skills - so mega has extra +126 dps and malestrom/hyper +63 With drone dps abaddon on 3 place (rokh on 4)
Originally by: Aranbaal
Range ... So abaddon is clear winner here with lasers having much better range than other guns.
max randge = optimal+fallof+fallof. Try to count this way.
Originally by: Aranbaal
Am i missing something here ? whats broken?
What a pity. I hoped for the constructive analysis, and you have passed the main problem because of which topics like this are created - laser cap usage and real second bonus for amarr ships (btw abaddon has normal bonuses - and its one ship that have some use).
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.02 18:42:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Aranbaal I have ot love the you cant fly one so shut up people. make me chuckle everysinge time. Yes i have an alt adn yes he can fly an abaddon. So whats r next excuse for me not agreeing with you??
No matter how many alts you have and what theyr races. On your posts it is well visible, that you do not know our race (a simple example - crystall jamming bug - its well known for all amarrs). I dont blame you for that - you may be good minmatar specialist/low sec pirat. But honesty - its realy annoying to try to convince someone who closed his eyes on half of your (and another topic readers) arguments. So i simply wont try.
Originally by: maximada
Amarr are not broken, its just that all their pilots think they are better than they actually are.
Only fool never doubt. So maybe you right. I am just a nub and i dont hide it. But when 1 man (minmatar btw) said that ALL amarrian pilots have lack of skills, and its only reason why amarrian ships overall on 4rth place here... whell, of course its all our incompetence! Plz help us finish tutorial great one! Teach us how to use lasers and armor reps when cap is empty! ...u cant? Then maybe it is you who need to finish tutorial?
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.02 19:30:00 -
[21]
Quote: And a mwd on a abaddon not needed at all. You have over 20km range so no need to get any closer than you are.
A joke of the day? (i write this quote to my notebook). You know anything about fleet pvp? (i allready know the answer...) I have changed my mind - you not even good low sec pirate. Looks like all that you did - killing some noobs near the gate in 1-2 shots. But plz continue to rise up topic -)
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.02 22:21:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Aranbaal Edited by: Aranbaal on 02/12/2007 21:35:55 So because i can fit an amarr ship with a heavy tank that works perfectly in pvp with no problems i am a noob.
there is a difference between "works" and "i think it works" Your fit is pvn fit - it is good to camp gate and kill frig\indi\cruiser that decloake after jump. Maybe warping on the belt when victim is not far from center. And what do you do if you meet another BS? (exept running away?). If it has sniper config - it just use his mwd an there is no way that you could stop him from leaving your optimal. If it has close config - then there is no way to stop him from reaching his optimal with blasters\autocannons (and they have greater tracking and dps than pulses). And do not forget: this tread is about cap usage and cap usage bonuses (mainly - there some minior issues with fitting\damage type etc.) of ALL amarr ships (notice?). Hell, why we must disquss about your pwn abaddon? or about volume of crystalls? or try to prove existens of laser jamming bug to 1 man who dont whant to belive and cannot check it himself? or try to convince you that you need to use drones in calculations?
Originally by: Aranbaal Edited by: Aranbaal on 02/12/2007 21:35:55 Its so much fun to see you all get super defencive when someone shows that the claims you make are over exagerated. Cant wait for you next uber claim that makes you look dumb once again lol
im allready said - only fool never doubt. So you think that we all wrong and you right?
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.02 23:01:00 -
[23]
Aranbaal - man, let me try to see your points: 1) I pirate - youre noobs. Youre just jealous becouse i created best abaddon pvn fit, not you. of course of course - relax 2) I have pvn fitted abaddon - it is ok - and that means there is no problem with: - enormious laser cap usage - laser_cap_reduction bonus instead of real second bonus on dps\tank\tracking\speed\whatever on allmoust all t1\half t2 amarr ships (exept abaddon) - bad pulse laser tracking - heavy beam laser fit req - only 2 type of laser damage in сomparison vs common omnitank - laser jamming bug - nosf\amarr recone nefr - track diz useless in сomparison vs jammers and dampers - another skill tree for half of t2 amarr ships - etc. of course we belive you - if you can figure uberpvn fit for abaddon then youre cannot be wrong 3)All ppl know my reputation and competence - just all of you dont know it - but i dont care becouse youre noobs. forgive our ignorance o great PVNer - we all swear we will understand you someday... in our afterlife.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.03 00:32:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Aranbaal i have come here and said there are abaddon fits that work FACT, try goin out and figuring the fits out and see if they work or not
I dont even try to. If you read carefully my posts maybe you see that: I never sayed that this fit is bad - i said that this fit usefull only for 1 goal. And you still try to use 1 abaddon fit as proof that entire race is flawless and have no problems. Dont you honestly think its stupid and childish? Analize abaddon (and all others bs with "laser_cap_reduction" bonuses) fits for ratting, mission running, solo pvp, close range pvp, long range pvp etc. And compare them with hyper\rokh\malestrom fits. Yes - its allmost impossible (too many variations and opinions), and thats a reason why OP uses only 2 type of fit - long\close dps fits and full tanking fits. And thats a reason why i dont whant to start smacktalk about your abaddon fit (do you realise how many fits have mega for example? and how difficult to compare them all?)
Originally by: Aranbaal you will finally take of you blinkers and see what i am saying
Youre saying about fit for pvn abaddon - im saying about entire race. Just curious - what sise of font need so you notice it? - it is allready 5th post where i try to get your attention to main problems of this tread (No - it is not about abaddon). And all Ive got "my pulse abaddon is great, you cannot denie that FACT"
Originally by: Aranbaal rather than just have the whole i'm uber i'm right ur not amarr you are wrong attitude
. I allways saed im a noob I even create char with this nick, and i dont think its bad to know that im still learning something. But on the other hand - Ive got tied getting your attention to main point of this tread. If you cannot see it - it is not my problem anymore. Some people never chandge. I leave you with your amarr alt and pvn abaddon in sweat onvictions that amarrs have no problems at all. P.S. to all - sry for my bad english (difficult to disquss on foreign language)
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.04 10:18:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Oregon sinful When is this thread going to die?
Never while
Originally by: Oregon sinful Amarr is the suck,
and we need to
Originally by: Oregon sinful train something else.
show must go on!
Originally by: Oregon sinful on the bright side you don't get nerfed!
true
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.04 13:20:00 -
[26]
I dont think devs ignoring problem - they have no reason to do so. Looks like they just dont understand it. Just like some non-amarr people here who just bought char with abaddon and never flyed different ships and different configs. Of course its better for them first of all boost\nefr caldary\galente races - 65% of players vs 15% Someday amarrs will be fixed properly... or entire race just disapeared becouse no one whant to play for them - horrible, but some sort of fixing In any case im honored to be amarr - not many mans played on hard mode :)
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.04 13:44:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Felysta Sandorn
So we get nerfed about as much as the other races, but don't get buffed as much...
also true :) We never get serious nefr but... we take hits from any other race boosts. BTW khanid mk2 is some sort of nefr for amarr build - it forces us to learn additional (useless for us) skill group. And even triniti patch gives us some minior nefr.
Testy Mctest - u need serious proof? read this devblog
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.04 16:47:00 -
[28]
to fit 7 tahs II (with 5 lvl awa) u need 25987 pg. to fit 8 tahs II u need 29700 pg armageddon (with 5 lvl skills) has 20625 (2 rcu nedded to fit), apoc 24475, abaddon 26250. I dont know what you smoke, but i whant all amarr smoke same - maybe then we will have no need in 2-3 rcu in low for every sniper fit BTW - got something to smoke to reduce laser cap usage?
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.04 17:12:00 -
[29]
Edited by: PeacefullNub on 04/12/2007 17:15:33 GO MaZ - and mega\foon\raven etc have no rig slots? i dont see your point - beam lasers are ok becouse we have rig slots and another bs havent? And they cannot use rigs? And rigs are free to have and theyr price has no difference in pvp? I have strong fealing that u (even if char has amarr face) never tryed to fly amarr ships by yourself.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.04 17:54:00 -
[30]
GO MaZ - nice setups - but: 168+30 effective range vs 154+25 104k vs 55k effective hp better tracking for mega (25% track bonus vs 50% less cap bonus and geddeon still uses more cap)
btw - i read all 23 pages of that topic and most readers sad that amarr needed: 1)beam laser pg reduction 2)real second ship bonus instead laser_cap_reduction 3)50% laser cap reduction as a role bonus (so u dont need 4-5 lvl in bs just to fire theyr weapons) Pls say something about this points - no need to compare sniper setups (tachs have more dps but less range - i think they ballanced at this point)
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.04 18:14:00 -
[31]
2 Evil thug I think you forgot harbinger in your ship fix list.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.04 19:07:00 -
[32]
how do you think THE ENTIRE RACE is currently unbalanced? (given the data previously posted in this thread?)
this is oficial statistic (i love this link). It shows that something wrong with amarr ships (not race) - and u cannot denie that fact. 4th place isnt good - and even minmatar (3rd place) have twice more ships build than amarr (not need to say about caldary\gallente). If amarr ships are ok and have use, then why so many people used another races ships in game? So whats wrong with amarr ships then? lets see main differences: 1)Laser use more cap than hybrids (not saying about projektiles and missiles) and amarr ships have allmost same cap as theyr analogs (3-6% greater) 2)Allmost all amarr ships have bonus for laser cap usage instead of real bonus (like ALL other ships)
So, logicaly, amarr problem somewere there. And khanid mk2 is good proof of that logic - theyr ships are ok (they use missiles and have no laser cap bonuses). Do not make mistake - amarr have some good and usefull ships - but sadly - another races have more, much more. And it need fix.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.04 20:10:00 -
[33]
Originally by: GO MaZ
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
I'll accept that certain amarrian ships have some problems, but it is NOT to do with the cap use of lasers, and IMO at least reducing fittings on all lasers would just break amarr.
Lets return to core problem (no - it isnt about sniper geddeon): 2006-07 year t1 statistic (t2 even whorse)
all places are 4rth (whell - 3d in BS category). You still think that our ships are fine? And ALL eve comunity just stupid and didnt realize that? how could you explain only 1 oficial fact in this tread?
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.04 22:01:00 -
[34]
Originally by: GO MaZ
Because amarrian ships aren't much use in PVE situations?
orly? Do you belive this? Ok - here is t2 production. Only 1 amarr ship is there -malediction (he uses rokets btw) Here top T1 (no amarrs died in pvp, where is geddeon, abaddon and apoc?) and T2 loses (malediction is only 1 amarr ship - what surprise). So amarrs used in pvp, but they dont build theyr ships and dont die. Even mighty owerpowered BS dissapeared.
Ok ok i pretend im totaly stupid - lets play in your game. Caldari great for pve. Gallente and minmatar great for both. (so 3 race have use in pve) And why not amarrs? 1 - low cap for firing and tanking (laser cap need fix) 2 - only 1 useful pve bonus (real second bonus needed) 3 - cant chose another type of damage (all other could) 4 - beams hard to fit So amarrs need boost at least for pve
Originally by: GO MaZ
Seriously, without a ship-by-ship breakdown there's little to no point in that table.
Of course - all this tables i paint myself and put them in devblog to lie to you. You just dont whant to see and your exscuses become more and more childish.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.08 07:50:00 -
[35]
For those who dont whant to read all 24 pages - short summary of Amarr serial: - Research amarrian ships (on an example of BS with identical fit) by topic starter: amarr BS averages on all parameters, except of cap usage - where they are worst. - Small disputes of correct fits (which still proceed) - Small disputes on the fact of a problem (which still proceed) - the precise argument and the analysis, except for personal conjectures of debaters, is not revealed. - Disputes on ways of fixing (many different suggestions) Here points, on which agreed majority of readers: 1) Fixing laser cap usage 2) Giving real second bonus and moving laser_cap_usage to role(faction) bonus of ship 3) Fixing fit reqs for beam lasers Here some disputable points: 1) Adding another type of damage to lasers 2) Fixing omnitank setups and high em resists General conclusions on this tread: 89 % of readers agreed with necessity of amarr fixing . 7 % agreed that some problem exists, but are not consent with research of topic starter and/or ways of fixing. 3 % dont see any problem with amarrs.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.09 17:11:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Abrazzar With the nano-paste around now I thought that Amarr can use more overheating because they don't need so much ammo and thus can store more paste in their cargo.
In pvp you need all cargo space for cap boosters, so amarrs have same cargo problems as others. In pve you dont need overheat at all...
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.12 06:45:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Min Seong I like Amarr ships and the intent of thier design and I will continue to fly them.
I think that is main point why somebody (15%) still fly amarrs - estetic pleasure of design and lasers
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.13 23:01:00 -
[38]
Originally by: MOTOK0 The dev's probably haven't replied to this thread because it is full of strawman arguments and bandwagon bull****.
just like as your arguments?
Originally by: MOTOK0
Not to say that some amarr ships don't have problems but sweeping changes to the whole amarr line of laser boats would just cause even greater game balance issues.
Of course. And 16% of amarrs and 14% of amarrian ships ingame is perfect ballance? Where have "protector of ballance" been when devs boosted caldary in triniti?
Originally by: MOTOK0
Oh, silly me, this isn't about game balance is it?
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.14 22:40:00 -
[39]
I personly think that boosting amarr ships like triniti sanshas (exept shiels tanking) - 1\2 turret slots and 100% laser damage role bonus - is realy nice idea: same dps, no ac\arty\rails fits, 1\2 capusage(so its possible to replace laser cap usage bonuses), better fittings, some free high slots for nosfs, and more impotantly - lasers used only for amarr ships.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.15 15:49:00 -
[40]
Originally by: The Djego
The Problem realy is you can¦t yust Boost Lasers. This will overpower the Ships that are good allready and will still not fix the Ships that are not that good because the lack of a real role.
Agree. But on the other hand - nefring lasers in anyway = killing them. Why someone need to use lasers if AC have same (or greater) dps and NO cap usage at all. So lasers need boosts but only for amarr ships. Any role ship bonuses?)
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.15 23:51:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Moving on... Patch 3910 - Tachyon boost
Tachyon beam damage multiplier increased by about 4% - thats all. No fit reqs fixes (still need 1 fitting mods more than on other racial BS -> 1 less low slot -> -1 heatsink -> 15-20% less dps), no cap use fixes (still no way for use mwd and active tanking). And lets see other patch chandges: The capacitor need of all projectile turrets has been removed. The capacitor need of blasters has been reduced by 30% and the CPU need has been reduced by 15%. The power grid need of all heavy neutron blasters has been decreased by 10%. The base damage inflicted by 1200mm, 650mm and 250mm artillery has been increased by 10%.[/b] -> better rename it to Tach nerf patch.
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Patch 33752 - 25% boost to pulse laser tracking,
even with that boost still worst tracking
Originally by: Gabriel Karade increased CPU need on EANM (nerf EM-strong 'omni tanks')
another one indirect amarr nerf...
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Patch 36191 - Khanid Mk II, Armageddon CPU increased, Zealot CPU & Power increased.
Khanid Mk II... i personly think it is horrible nerf for pure amarrs. It forces to either forget about 1\2 t2 ships, or train another skill group. (As my friend said - "Khanid ships are awesome... for us, caldary") No need to say that many amarr pilots (like myself) started to play becose of ship/lasers design and this "boost" is spittle to our face. Armageddon still cannot fit tachs without PG and burns own cap in minutes, zealot still worst HAC in game. And lets see another side of patchnotes: Nosferatu changes (killed amarr recons) Boosted Deimos and Muninn (so zealot "boost" changed nothing)
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Don't even start on the tracking... first of all, at least know you're own weapons FFS... beams have higher tracking than the equivalent Railguns or Artillery, 44.6% and 54.7% more respectively.
Its true - pulses have best tracking, but in long range combat tracking is allmost useless. It helps sometimes, but range is more impotant thing. And pulses have worst range so 1 more TE -> 1 less med slot (and we dont have many btw)
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Tracking tracking tracking... don't make me laugh, with a Megapulse II for 78% of the tracking of an 800mm II at 500% optimal range, and 54% higher optimal + falloff. Compared to a Neutron II you get 77.9% of the tracking at 333% optimal, and 86% more optimal + falloff.
Cap usage - try to exsplain why lasers use so many cap? Or fitting reqs for beams? For what advantage over ac\arty\blaster\rails\missiles we have no active tanking at all,mwd, 1 ship bonus, 1 less med and low slots for tachs fits? I answer - there is NO real advantage. That is why ac\arty setups are common on amarr ships. Even witout ship bonuses they are better. Have you seen any non amarr ship using lasers btw (Now - not in Red moon rising)?
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Minor, MINOR tweaking is all the Amarr need
I disagree. We allready have this "MINOR tweakings" - and they not helped.
Originally by: Gabriel Karade so cut it with the 'broken' nonsense. If the ships were truly broken they'd not be in use anywhere.
Then according oficial statistic amarr ships are broken (or is there another reason why even minmatars have much more ships in eve?).
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.16 11:24:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade The top tier Gallente Battleship at the time required a T2 CPU fitting mod just to fit the middle tier of blasters - no Neutrons, no 'uber' tank, nothing to do with the heaviest long range weapons - just the middle tier blaster, a plate and a repairer...
I may be wrong - i have no alts with gallent BS. So i used eft - and hyperion actually fitted 8 neitrons II and lar II, and have 1\3 of his cpu left. So i dont know why he need CPU mods?
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.16 15:15:00 -
[43]
Peace, my brothers and sisters Seriously, there is to need in posts like: "Im fly amarr(any other race) and you dont, so you know nothing." "Im older than you so shut up." "You dont fully read my posts so i dont read yours" etc. This topic is not about your age or sp, or killboard place. Argue the facts and analyses - instead of emotions.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.17 03:19:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Anacrit Mc'Sinister
Quote: Ah sod it, you aren't even reading my posts (click that link for instance, oh look cruise missile, not a frigate...)
thats right - leave - you have nothing to put in to this. you fly galanty which is by all acounts the most powerfull race. you dont fly amarr...JUST reading teh patch notest IS NOT ENOUGH.
The main problem here - subjectivity of opinions. For example the person did not fly on amarr ships and has no concept, what is cap problems, low tracking and pg fitting. But he knows that such problems with range of blasters and cpu fittings. As a result: "improvement of lasers and tracking is pure boost, becouse they have no problems with range and cpu (and there are other important problems?), and improvement of blasters, and rails is only necessary fixing - becouse they are difficult to fit, etc." but sadly, when patches boosted their weapons, they forget favourite phrase "all weapon should have lacks and advantages" Projektiles and hybrids have some disadvantages, but sadly - ac\arti\blaster fits are common on amarr ships, but laser fits never used on mega for example. So i think that lasers are broken
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.17 06:16:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Dillius Archania
It's not like our suggestions will be taken into consideration much anyways (method of the NOS nerf anyone?). CCP will be the one to decide changes if (when, hopefully) something happens.
That is what i fear. CCP allready showed that their metods of solving problems sometimes... questionable. And still no response from devs here. So its quite possible that we will have another stupid skilltree misplace like they done in khanid mk2 - and ironicly, they will call it "amarr boost" (i guess it will be shield tanking on chantum conglomerate ships - its only 1 left that amarrs dont need to learn today). And another 2 years to prove that problem still exist.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.18 18:06:00 -
[46]
I dont understand posts like: "You have cap booster and it gives you 1-2 minutes of combat - you dont need more" Actually there are thousants of situations when extra cap is a difference betwin life and dead. Even at fleet battles, when amarrs shine - if you (on mighty plated abaddon for example) survived first 2 minutes (not get primaried) of combat - you are flying piece of junk with 170k effective hp but 1/5 of your real dps.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.19 12:29:00 -
[47]
Originally by: insidion
Originally by: Dillius Archania Perhaps some kind of modification along the lines of what was done for the Nightmare and Paladin could be considered? It seems like a successful system, and would likely be easier to implement on a ship by ship basis rather than a broad change to lasers in general.
1. It is unrealistic to pattern a solution for lasers after elite faction ships. 2. It is unrealistic to pattern a solution for lasers after arguably niche ships (marauders). 3. It is unfair to expect a solution of this type to only be applicable to amarr.
Either fix lasers as is already commonly agreed upon, or redesign all races ships completely to accommodate the same common ground. Which sounds more reasonable to you?
What is a ballance? I think that ballance is when you cannot compare 2 weaponsystems in any tearms. For example - missile, turret and drone systems - they have their unique drawbacks and their strong points. And it actualy make game much interesting, when you cannot say witch ship is better - they are compleatly different. I think that lasers cannot be reflections of blasters\rails - or they will allways be compared. Entire weapon system need unique look and role. As an example - true sanshas type. It will give flexability for amarr ships - and today they have none. And i dont think that "It is unfair" to coordinaly chandge worst race, that waited this for 3 years.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.20 05:56:00 -
[48]
Edited by: PeacefullNub on 20/12/2007 05:59:56 As you may remember - devs nerfed nightmares high slots (-2) and med+low (-2) before giving +100% damage boost. And we have now nightmare, not NIGHTMARE with 4 turrets +100%damage and 4 missiles or 4 neitralizers, with plated armor tank and 170k effective hp - devs actually rebalanced it before boosting. So why cant they rebalance amarr ships before giving faction +100% damage bonus to them? Abaddon for example - give him only 5(or even only 4) high slots and 4 turrets - 4 lasers with+100% damage and 1 utility slot. This gives him allmost no advantage, exept better fittings for lasers and 1\2 cap usage. And no Projektiles\hybrids setups from now. In the end we will see good ship and no "LaserRavens" like in 2004 Or apoc for example - give him 6 high slots and 3 turrets - it nerfs his max dps by 25% . But at least 3 free utility slots allow to use apoc as support BS in combat. And it finaly gives him a role. There are so many ways to use sansha\marader type without owerpowering ships and actually rebalancing them, but you dont even try to think about them. "OMG it makes them owerpowered! No way, just fix damn lasers damage\tracking\cap, and remove cap usage bonus, and fix pg reqs for tachs etc."
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.28 16:07:00 -
[49]
Originally by: The Djego Edited by: The Djego on 28/12/2007 15:13:22 7 MPL IIWeb, Scram, 2 Heavy Cap Boosters II2 LAR II, Expl Hardner II, Kin Hardner II, Termic Hadner II,Damage Controll II, Heat Sink II 2x Nano Pump1x Semiconductor Memory Cell 5x Hammerhead II Beats a Blastertron in real World PVP any time.
abaddon 170kk + t2 fit - 40-55kk + riggs 80-100kk = 300-355kk. Is it "real world pvp"?
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.30 15:35:00 -
[50]
Originally by: General StarScream The tracking is ok, to hit targets, Amarr is great in Gangs for heavy hitting tackeld targets.
So, you suggest, that amarrs designed to kill only big, slow moving targets? A shame, that 90% pvp ships have mwd.
Originally by: General StarScream
they are not uber solo race, but do well enuff vs other bs.
Amarrs are not only their BS. As many ppls said - BS is where amarrs are relativly balanced.
Originally by: General StarScream
most fights in eve are gang related, so the amarr shine. its just people whom use the base stats to say they suck.
No - most fights in eve are solo/small gang fights. Amarr BS are good in large fleet battles (at least if they are primary), but in small gang\solo pvp allmost useless due tracking\cap issue\worst speed.
Originally by: General StarScream
I for one dont want every singel ship in eve to be the same.
i dont whant it either, so i dont whant simple tracking\cap usage fix - i (and many, many, many amarr players) whant rebalance.
Originally by: General StarScream
you cant have uber dps at all ranges+ tracking+ all dam types. + tank+ drones, and uber cap at the same time. with the best res in game.
Allso true. You see general point - but what you dont see, that only 17% (13% with more than 1kk sp and 4% bestower alts) players in eve are amarrs and amarr ships have overall 4rth place in eve. Some prove for my words: races statistic and ships statistics
Originally by: General StarScream
each ship in eve should be uniq for special roles, so they fit well in a gang.
Idealy. But face it, with exeption of large fleet battles amarrs have no role. And do you realize how difficult to play for race that is average or useless 90% of game time? Why do you think many ppls say: amarr = eve on hard?
Originally by: General StarScream
but its eve, and i think the problem, is that people think that there race is the weekest, i feel the same about gallente, i wish i had gone amarr,caldri or min, for meny resons, but im sure i would feel it the other way around if i had skilled in any of the other races.
But too many players cross-trained from amarr to something else. They do it without reason? How many amarr players have pure amarr build?
Originally by: General StarScream
And dont forget about the 1 sec reload to other type of crystals. and no ammo drain, this is a huge +.
Again, you right on paper. Devs designed lasers to be instant reloaded weapons without need of ammo - that was in 2005. But you dont know that there is weapon reload bug - to reload 4-8 turrets with t2\faction\splitted t1 ammo (and it splits everytime) you need much more time (30s-1min). And faction\t2 lenses have about 4000 charghes - in the end they simply dissapear (yes - lenses are not eternal). Imagine that you need 8x2(maybe 3 complects)x4000=64000 chardges of void L (36-50kk)for every pvp.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.30 22:25:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
Originally by: Jonny JoJo ...
But according to you close range pvp is <10km. Targets under 10km are usually webbed, hence transversal is reduced by 90%, hence the differences between each races tracking is minimal except with the tracking bonus. Can't have it both ways.
About 80% posts in this topic is about abaddon (geddeon) vs mega. I dont understand. This thread is not about 1 bs vs 1 bs pvp. Why all you try to prove each other that Mega beats abaddon or abaddon beats mega etc. Maybe it will be fair to compare this 2 bs in all game situations (including mission running and hunting)? And only then say "amarr isnt that bad".
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
Pvp is not just <10km or >100km, sorry but eve isn't that simple.
Pvp is not just BS vs BS, sorry but eve isn't that simple. What about BS vs HAC (so tracking is useless?), close BS vs Sniper (So amarrs dont need mwd at all?), 30 min -1 hour fights (Yes - it actually happens. So cap usage isnt a problem in pvp?) etc.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.04 07:07:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Wind Ictiva
ok, im just gonna throw this in here...
i know its gonna make an awfull ruckus, but well, im predisposed that way.
if you¦re gonna boost amarr, boost gallente first
Boost amarr, or nerf gallente\caldary first - i think that is correct.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.04 13:02:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Juliux Novi
Originally by: Jorak Falconstar Ok i'm not a numbers person so i wont try to work anything out but it seems that a large part of the complaint is that Amarr weapons are to easy to tank, right?
well how bout if they were changed from Em/Thermal damage mix to a Thermal/Explosive mix (i.e. leave the numbers the same just change the type of damage)?? I know that doenst fix the issues with cap drain etc but doesn't it make a start toward making lasers somewhat more competitive compared to the other turrets.
I do commend you for offering some positive, constructive advice on how to solve the issue, we need more people like you.
But I must warn you, the nerds are going to start complaining that "Lasers are weapons of light and photons, therefore can only do EM or Thermal damage, light cannot do explosive or kinetic damage by the very laws of science", etc etc.
If devs created lasers according real world physics then we have something like: 1) no optimal at all - pure and hudge falloff (optimal for light?) 2) no em damage (0.01% em)- pure thremal 3) best range in game 4) perfect tracking (lasers in real world use focusing mirrors - no need for entire device to rotate at all) 5) no turret signature resolution (it is laser after all - not autocanon) 6) heavy energy usage (whell - its exist in game)
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.04 14:13:00 -
[54]
Originally by: General StarScream Amarr is allready the best race in game...Its the Gallente race that should whine here
...omg... Dont know what to answer... Looks like you absolutley out of your mind. No, realy. - this is most stuppid post in this thread. Even posts like: "amarr are fine, stop whinning" have more usefull information. Allmost all points in your post are wrong (try to prove at least 1\2 of them with oficial facts),exept coolest looking ships and ,maybe, storyline. Delete it before noone saw it
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.04 14:38:00 -
[55]
Originally by: General StarScream You can look up facts you self cant you?
pls point out where im wrong.
If you do il give you 1 billion isk
ships statistics amarrs have no one ships on the 1 places (exept bestower) - so all yours "best <enter ship class>" is trash. races statistics 1 - caldary 2 - gallente 3 - minmatr 4 - amarr Im waiting for 1 billion isk...
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.04 17:09:00 -
[56]
Originally by: General StarScream races statistics dont mean anything other than what the % of people fly, it dont mean Amarr are the least best race. it just what people pick at the start, and alot of people on the fourm are ******s, claiming Gallente is best for pvp and bla bla bla. but they forget that every race has a role they are better than others at.
Oh no - it means everything. If you dont like racial statistic - then look at ship statistic. Why so many gallente ships in eve if they are "most useless race" (your words). Why most used capitals are thanantos and moros(nerf its 50%/lvl drone bonus btw - why he has 1,1k dps with only 5 ogres?) (Ups - not archon and revelation). Why so many ppls use ravens and megas (are they all dump or something like that?). Why ppls fly crow, taranis and stilletos (so amarrs have second best ceptor - right?). Etc. etc. etc... Looks like no one knows about uberness of amarr race ( exept of you) :) I have proved my words with oficial facts. You havent proved anything. So im waiting 1 bil isk on this char. Or there is nothing behind your words?
Originally by: General StarScream
they have alot of good ships, you cant base that amarr sucks cuse they got 1 stinky ship class, wich dont do as well as Caldri or other races, ment to be good at that.
I wonder, why you (gallente, who never played amarr) try to prove amarrs that we are best race and have no problems at all? Many ppls posted in this thread and agreed that amarrs have problems. Some said that only some ships have problems and need fixes. And they proved theyr words with statistic, analisis, ballte experience (killboards) etc. And here goes General StarScream: "Amarrs are best race and gallente are worst bla bla bla. Statistics? It dont mean anything. Another player experience? They all noobs (even Thug on his Avatar). I know the true!" Do you know what word "trolling" mean?
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.04 17:21:00 -
[57]
Edited by: PeacefullNub on 04/01/2008 17:23:21
Originally by: Dillius Archania I was about to say stop the trolling, the personal arguments, and the ****talking, but then I realized something.
Still no CCP answer, we really do need trolling to keep this thread up. Maybe eventually they'll get annoyed with it enough to respond.
I mean, every argument has been beaten into the ground already (whether here or any of the hundreds of other Amarr threads that have popped up), we have over 30 pages of VERY good discussion then a lot of people doing their best to keep the thread alive under the slim hope that something will happen.
+1, Even trolls have some use Some ideas to discuss future: 1)interdictor (some solutions for heretic?) 2)Stealth bombers (why all of them use cruises? it is good for caldary\minmatar but not for amarr/gall) 3)Assault frigats (useless ships in eve, but maybe here, with some tweaks, amarr will have use?) 4)Khanid MK III (Is there any other solutions?) 5)Some general ideas for amarrs (maybe drone+lasers or missiles+lasers instead missiles+drones+lasers that we have today?)
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.04 17:55:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Archa The best amarr ships are khanid ships. Because they use missiles.
Yes but it forces amarrs to: train gunnery (all skills) to use laser ships (allmost all t1), train drones to use ew frigs/recons/any BS (lasers have awefull tracking -so drones are impotant for surviving), train missiles to use best t2 ships and stealth bombers. Only thing that amarr dont need to train is shield tanking - but best amarr/caldary faction ships (sanshas) need it. So looks like amarrs need to train ALL skillgroups.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.05 09:53:00 -
[59]
Originally by: General StarScream
every race has some ships that are good, and some that or not so good for the roles, you like.
Some facts: - did you know that all (exept abaddon) laser ships have only 1 ship bonus and any other races - 2?
Originally by: General StarScream
i bet some people hate to fly some ships, while others love em.
I personly love omen and zealot, i even like to fly amarr AF for fun. But when i need real ship, not beauty piece of crap - i prefer to use sacre. I h8 this ship, and its ugly design, and missiles but - it has 2 bonuses, unlike zealot, and no cap\tracking problems - and what has zealot? Cool design - thats all.
Originally by: General StarScream
Amarr is a nice race to skill up in, cuse you get better and better ships the more high sp you are.
Youre wrong. At high SP lvl (about 1 year) amarrs are only competentive with any other race, not better. I think if amarr ships at 5 lvl have some increased bonuses (like +100% to capusage instead +50% etc.) your words may have some true. But all races have same advantages at high SP lvls.
Originally by: General StarScream
Caldri is win all over, while Min are about the same as Amarr. and gallente are good in the middle sp range.
Mate - best PvP race is GALLENTE. Why you dont whant to face it? If you dont have enough skills (real combat skills - not SP) to use best pvp race in game... Train amarrs - then you realise why its "eve on hard"
Originally by: General StarScream
what would you kill a pos with A Moros or a Rev?
For pos siedge - Naglifar (2 turrets+ 2citadels and no weapon cap), then moros (drone bonus allows to use it vs moving targets), phoenix (nothing special, but still no cap for torpedoes), and finaly revelation (only 1 ship bonus, heavy weapon cap usage)
Originally by: General StarScream
ye right. what Bs gets 85% res to all with only t2 and dual rep, + uber cap`? amarr.
Some facts: - did you know that amarr ships have no "ubercap"? Did you know that amarr ships (with exeption of apoc - it has shipbonus) have allmost same cap as any other racial ship? Thats right - abaddon has allmost same cap as roch/hyper/mael - did you know that any laser used cap like 2 blasters?
Originally by: General StarScream wich race does close to mega dps and have the same drones at ranges from 2km-20km and can change to longer range at will?
same race that cannot fire their guns more than 3 minutes with capbooster and without mwd and rephs? "Close to mega dps" is realy great advantage for enormious cap usage, no mwd use, no active tanking, and only 1 ship bonus
Originally by: General StarScream
people forget the good sides about amarr.
No - we remember. We have coolest ship design and avatars. And ability to whine 24\7 on this forum
Originally by: General StarScream
i think gallente stink.
Looks like you even dont know your own race, but still tried to teach us. Anyway - keep bumping this thread - even trolls have some use
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.05 12:00:00 -
[60]
just to show some examples Abaddon (+20,4 cap\s) with 8 tachs II (-63,3 cap\s) used allmost same amount of cap as: rokh (+19,2 cap\s) with 8 425mm rails II + Large SB II (-62,1 cap\s) hyperion (+19,2 cap\s) with 8 425mm rails II + LAR II (-61,7 cap\s) maeldiction (+19,2 cap\s) with 8 140mm howitzer II + XL SB II (-72 cap\s) So where is a point? Abaddon has extra 1 cap\s (4% better than other BS) regen, but 8 tachs used 63 cap\s (300% of 425mm rails II). Where is balance?
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.05 13:05:00 -
[61]
And how about non-mwd laserboat? Of course Domi need mwd to reach targets, but targets need mwd to keep distance. And laser boats cannot use mwd, so they cannot use "mid range"
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.05 15:06:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Riaz Qaadir Lasers are clearly fine.
I have to ask you - did you even use lasers? At least at cruisers size ships? lets compare lasers have advantages: Pulses 1)better optimal for close range Beams 1)better tracking for long range 2)better dps for long range *i didnt mention instant ammo switching - becouse jamming bug still not fixed and real reloading time is 30-45s for 8 turrets (all amarrs know what im talking about) *unlimited ammo is fake - t2/faction ammo has only 4000 shots and is quite expensive for pvp. hybrids have advantages: Blasters 1)better dps for close range 2)better fallof for close range 3)better tracking for close range 4)lower cap usage Rails 1)better optimal for long range 2)better fallof for long range 3)better fit reqs for long range 4)lower cap usage (lasers use 300% of hybrids cap) *laser EM/thermal damage vs armor omnitanks is weakest (2 top resists), vs shield omnitanks - average. Hybrids have average damage vs shield and armor omnitanks.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.05 17:28:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
10km less optimal when your doing <200m/s? Sorry but that domi doesn't beat a Geddon or Abaddon in any catagory at all.
That domi beats Gedeon and abaddon in raw DPS and decent tank categories. Who cares about optimal/speed/mwd/shield resists when on paper domi can overdps allmost all BS? Who cares that drones can be killed, or enemi can use mwd\web etc.? But on paper domi is ubership. Just like some abaddon\armageddon setups, when tracking, enemy speed, long time combats arent used in calculations. I think that was Jonny JoJo`s point.
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
Less damage or minutes longer to get into range and less tank. The lower the speeds the bigger the advantage having more range is.
The point is megapulse can hit even with max damage faction ammo at 15km and reasonably well upto warp disruptor range, with t2 long range it has more than enough range. so if theres any ship that doesn't need a mwd is pulse laser BS, just because a ship with 1/3 the range sucks without a mwd doesn't mean other ships with more range suck to. Not saying they don't need them, but they need them the least of anyone.
Actualy, if amarr ships could hold enemy at 15km range - all this may be true. But they cant. There is 2 warp scramblers types but only 1 web. And it has 10km range - not 15-20-25-50. So amarr ability to shot targets at 50km is useless (if there is no minmatar and gallente recons in gang for takling) Even with MWD amarr ships are slowest (maybe caldary are slower - but they use diffirent weapon system) So enemy with mwd is free to dictate range of combat, or evade it. Maybe low slots stasis webs with 20+ km range will solve "Mid range combat" problems. Or +15%\lvl web range bonus on ALL laserships instead cap_usage_bonus (so they can use simple webs for their "mid range") Or +1 free med slot on all laser ships for second web, so amarrs could hold enemy with mwd at least at 6-10km with 2 t2 webbs. But today there is no opportunity to hold enemy at 15-20kn - so there is no mid range combat.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.06 17:36:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Aranbaal
- EM Damage type against primarily armor tankers (Two thirds of EVE) yes in theory a con. But when countered by the fact that you not stopping to fire for 20-30 seconds in the fight to reload it more than makes up for one of your dmg types being against the highest resist.
Actualy - reloading time allready included in all dps calculation in this thread. (Just cheked - mega has 790 dps (7 neutr II + 3 magstabs II, no drones) with reloading time and 813 dps without it.)
Originally by: Aranbaal
- Require you to carry tens of millions of isk worth of ammo on all laser ships This is not required for normal pvp. Might be needed for 0.0 fleet warfare which is much different but not for us pirates when almost all pvp happened within 20km which is always in the optimal of the amarr navy multi freq's. So no need for tonnes of ammo in the hold.
If you didnt know, Mega pulses II with multi have 15 km optimal. And this therad is not about lowsec pirating in trashfited abaddons - reloading bug exists and real annoying, 90% amarr pilots have 2-3 lenses sets in cargo. And not all amarrs are lowsec gatechampers.
Originally by: Aranbaal
- Pulse have significantly lower DPS than blasters Again not having to reload multiple times mid fight makes up for the difference, also having better range.
again - reloading time allready included...
Originally by: Aranbaal
- Beams have significantly lower range than Rails Less range more dps. Means balance, you cant have best of both worlds.
Of course. But why beams have useless tracking bonus instead of useful optimal\fallof bonus? maybe -30% tracking + 30% optimal? Its looks like fair balancing - but only on paper. In real snipers pvp range>damagetype>damagemod>dps>tracking.
Originally by: Aranbaal
- Switching used crystals is bugged and can take a long time Agian in normal pvp ( non 0.0 sniper crap) no need to carry many different types of ammo s you dont have any part used crystals in hold which means no bug.
Again - your gate piracy istn normal pvp. Eve world is much biger than 15km gaterange...
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.06 19:04:00 -
[65]
Some said that pulses dont need high tracking and tracking is useless at 10km (web) range. Some tracking calculations 5 lvl motion prediction, no tracking\weapon bonuses: Megapulse II (Navy multi L) and Neutron blaster II (any t1 ammo that hits range) has chanse to hit (%): 1) BS orbiting 14km without ab\mwd (400 signature, 150 tranversal, 14km range) - 89.3/95.6 2) BS orbiting 11km with AB (400\300\11) - 63.6/83 3) BS orbiting 14km with MWD (2000\400\14) - 93,8/95 4) Webbed(80%) bs at 2km (400\30\2000) - 87.2/94.8 5) Bestower at 15km (gatechamp) (210\150\15) - 74.7/86.83
So final dps of mighty "owerpowered" Abaddon vs ANY moving target is slightly lower, even when target is webbed.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.06 19:18:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Aranbaal
Originally by: PeacefullNub
Actualy - reloading time allready included in all dps calculation in this thread. (Just cheked - mega has 790 dps (7 neutr II + 3 magstabs II, no drones) with reloading time and 813 dps without it.)
Ahh so you have worked out reload times and everything in a decent lenght fight have you. Most fleet fights last longer than one reload. So saying you have included reload times is just bull. You cant include them unless you have worked out the fight over a set ammount of time.
People in this tread seem to have a very blinkered view of amarr. Only seeing what they deam as downsides when the upsides are bloody good too.
Do you realy thinks that anyone here manualy added 30\60\90 empty seconds for dps calculations? Do you know from where this dps stats come? Maybe you think that all readers use pan and paper? Looks like stupid gatechamping 24/7 burns your mind. No, realy - do you know EFT/QF? Its 2008 - not 2004.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.06 19:43:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Zathi Shaitan
Originally by: PeacefullNub
A typo in your name only says you're ignorant.
Stop posting.
1) At least my name has some sense 2) I dont care when people call me noob 3) Its better to be laughting peacefullnub, who dont hides lack of knowlege, than LordOfDeathAndChaos (or something like it) - who hides true (weak and stupid) self behind his scary avater and his name.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.06 23:21:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Ruciza
There is another significant point, and that is called selective perception.
I used this numbers only to show that low pulses tracking has some impact on dps, compared to blasters\AC. Let me show you "selective perception" Megapulse II and Neutron blaster II 1) Typhoon without mwd orbiting at 12,5km ( (320/188/12.5) 80.43% and 91.37% 2) Webbed (90%, 18.8 m/s) Typhoon at 1km (320/19/1) 70.95% and 87.5%
maybe you need some nanophoon setups here?
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.07 02:17:00 -
[69]
Edited by: PeacefullNub on 07/01/2008 02:25:26
Originally by: Aranbaal
Ah so i am correct then you have based your calculations on a fight having 1 reload to get ur dps results. As that is how eft works. It factors in one reload to the dps calculations. So as stated try goin away and working it out with multiple reloads. And then see how much dmg lasers give ot in an prolonged battle. Basing your argument on what a 3rd party program tells you that doesnt take all teh factors into account isnt a very good way to prove your point.
I dont added 1 reload, not 2-100000 reloads. Allright - lets go hard way. DPS - damage per SECOND (not per Minute, not per hour etc.) Lets rememder some earlier school lessons. (all readers with A&B grades may skip that part) For example: 125mm gatling autocanon and emp S (40 chardges, 3 sec rof without skills - 23 damage per shot) 1)dps without reload (40x23)/120 = 7.666 (eft shows 8) 2)dps with reloading time (40x23)/(120+10)= 7.07 (eft shows 7) dps will be the same even if we take 24 hour damages and reloads. 3)dps with 10 reloads (400x23)/(1200+100)=7.0769230769 Any questions about school mathematics?
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.07 22:24:00 -
[70]
Lets forget for a minute about abaddon vs megethorn. All 4 reces have stealth bombers All stealth bombers use cruise missiles Only 2 races (caldary\minmtar) use cruises for other ships Is there any way to rebalance amarr\gallente SB? Some ideas: 1) Remove cruise bonuses and replace them with bomb bonuses. (and missile bombardment lvl 5 reqs for bomblauncher) For example: -10% per lvl to bomb sugnature, +10% per lvl to bomb armor, +5% to explosion range etc. 2) Use Heavy Hybrids\Lasers instead Cruises Any ideas of bonuses\drawbacks?
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.08 08:19:00 -
[71]
Myphs and legends about amarr race: Legend about laser balance Laser use 300% of blasters cap, but have unlimited ammo and ability to switch crys allmost instant - looks like fair balance for weapon system. Thats how all non-amarr players thinks. But when it comes to t2/faction ammo - its actualy has shoting limits. And you cannot split navy cry for small parts, like any other ammo - you must carry 20-30kk no matter of situation. You cannot sell partially used cry, you cannot stack them. You cant even monitor remaining chardges without calculator. And when it comes to instant reloading - old jamming bug apears. It is OLDEST known eve bug, that can be easily fixed. But for unknown reasons it still exists. CCP realy "loves" their subscribers:( 2) Myph about cap balance Ok, lasers use cap, but amarr ships have many capcitor. Amarrs BS for example, have 1 cap/s better caprech. But 1 megapulse II use 5,3 cap/s (8 megapulses - 42,3 cap/s - without any heatsink). So better caprech has some advantage only for amarr BS with AC\arty\missiles setups.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.09 10:37:00 -
[72]
Originally by: burek Having recently cross trained to amarr (real easy when you've been speccing for minmatar for over 2 years), I have to say the two ships I've been flying, sacrilege and absolution are quiet uber. Can't wait to try the geddon/abaddon.
Thats becouse you have no need to play amarr from the start - when your skills are low. As many pps said - amarrs are relativly fine at high skill levels. I think when you will use abaddon and realise that it cant fire more than 2 minutes (with all your perfect skills) without capbooster, you will understand why abaddon/apoc projektile setups are common.
Originally by: burek
And tbh, I can't really see the problems mentioned here with lasers, when using the absolution. There's always plenty of cap, superb tank and a **** ton of damage. What am I missing?
Youre correct, Abso is 1 of best amarr ships (2 damage bonuses + tank bonus) and it has no big cap problems (at least it can fire all turrets without capbuster, unlike many amarr ships). But it isnt something that you can fly at first half year in game. Sacre is allso great. But you see - it is great for you. Minmatars train missiles from the start, unlike amarrs.
Originally by: burek
About the small t1 ships... who gives a **** really? All races have more ****ty ships than good ones. With any race you'd end up flying just a handful of ships, just like with amarr.
I disagree. Race strenght is not just 1-2 good ships, but all good ships vs bad ones. Even good t1 frigs are usefull (see how many rifters and kestrels in game), when you decided to play amarr from the start. Same problem with all t1 cruisers. Arbi is awesome ship (compared to other amarr cruisers), but its DRONEboat - you need 2kk sp in drones to use it properly (amarr newbis have pathetic droneskills). Omen and maller have cap and fitting problems (of course you dont see them when you have high lvl skills).
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.09 19:00:00 -
[73]
Maybe some long range web (3 size of it for frigs\cruisers and bs) that not reduce enemy speed but only removes (or gives penality) MWD\AB trust bonus on their ships? And i suggest it must use low slot - so amarr ships with 1-2 mids have some use.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.10 09:18:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Mid range combat is shooting 15-30km in a small gang situation round a gate/station, there's nothing magical about it. I'm not going to trawl killboards looking for Pulse Armageddons on kills (I seriously doubt you have either) besides, pilots who use them effectively have already posted in this thread.
I think you dont understand what we are talking about. 1) Solo Mid range exists (gatechamps only, not even station camps) but solo mid range combat isnt. There is no way to hold enemy at 15-50km. 2) Gatechamps 2-10 BS+recons+taklers vs 1-2 incoming BS - isnt fair fight. I wounder how ppls allways try to use this "mid range" argument? Its allways gang vs solo\duo fights, when gang has all advantages, when enemy is outnumbered and lagging. Or is it ballanace that minimum 2 amarr ships (at least BS+takler) need to kill 1 enemy BS? 3) Gatechamps gang vs gang has no mid range. Simply too many ships for recons and taklers to hold, and enemy allso has antisuport units. So finaly its close range, when amarrs are weak.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.10 11:29:00 -
[75]
Edited by: PeacefullNub on 10/01/2008 11:41:09
Originally by: Gabriel Karade The latter situation is exactly where the mid-range Megapulse shines.
15km gate decloacking range is nothing for any ship with MWD - mega will be near abaddon before they targeted each other. Thats a reason why long range snipers +ceptors are used instead "mid range" abaddons. They have greater range, allmost same dps, and if things getting realy bad - snipers and ceptors have ability to escape. I cant imagine situations when megapulse boat can be better than any close range boat or sniper. This is what many ppls called "amarr problem" - no role in game.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.11 05:52:00 -
[76]
I would like to repeat someone words (dont remember exactly who said that): 1 extra drone brandwich (5 for frig, 10 for cruiser, 25 for bs) = 1 high slot mid slot>>low slot (just stupid, but many active midslot modules are better than passive lowslots analogs, not mention webbs, scramblers and ew) empty high slot (especialy when you cannot fit it)<<low slot.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.11 07:51:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Kruel I'll list the sub-capital Amarr combat ships that can compete with other races in their respective category:
Punisher, Maldiction, Arbitrator, Harbinger, Armageddon, Abaddon, Paladin, Sacrilege, Devoter, Curse, Absolution, Damnation.
Punisher - useless frig (2 mids - no pvp, lasers - no pve) Harbinger/abaddon - only gangs and heavy plated setups or active tank+ac/artis. Devoter - worst HIC. Dont know for what advantage it has only 4 turrets and f***ng cap reduction bonus. (or devs suggested, that lasers used too many cap and in order to balance amarrs they remove 1 turret, but forget to add +25% faction bonus?) Paladin - worst maradeur (but still much better than any t1 amarr BS)
Originally by: Kruel
Oh, and who uses Tracking Disruptors anyway? I don't fit em on my Curse because there are better things to put in those mids.
I think that if curse\piligrim have something instead tracking disrupter bonus (or ability to affect optimal and fallof with TD) they will be great.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.12 00:10:00 -
[78]
Edited by: PeacefullNub on 12/01/2008 00:23:28
Originally by: Cpt Branko
1) Khanid Mk2 was a outright Amarr boost to the crappy Khanid line.
Khanid ships are fine, exept 1 thing - its not amarr boost. Amarrs have no missile boats, no missile specs, no SP in missiles. Even before this "boost" amarrs have high skillreqs (all skills exept missiles and shieldtanking). Probably when CCP nerfed nosfs they think: "but many non-amarr (amarrs - who cares about 16% when there is 60% caldary+galente?) players trained useless amarr cruisers for best solomobile (Curse). Lets give them something like armortanked roketships!" No,realy - 2\3 of khanid ships pilots are caldary.
Originally by: Cpt Branko
2) Pulse 25% tracking boost anyone? They should reverse it because you didn't notice it though.
Actualy i dont mind to reverse it (and khanid ships too btw). At least CCP will have no exquses like "but you have youre "Oomh" - youre fine now". Why we need this +25% pulse tracking boost if its tracking still worst? P.S. Devs allways thinking about balance, about a way to fix amarrs and not make them overpowered. They allways waiting, comparing, analising stats. They keep their work in secret. And in the end they will do some stupid thing and call it "ultimate amarr boost". And this scenario will repeat itself until the end of Eve.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.12 14:09:00 -
[79]
Why ppls allways try to show some dps setups on amarr ships (especialy when this setups cannot be fited) just to have some prove for their words "amarrs are fine, stop whinning" But when someone shows, that tracking difference betwin pulses and any other closerange weapon is actualy 1-20% less dps, they just dont whant to look at it - "but it isnt 40% so stop whinning".
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.13 22:10:00 -
[80]
Originally by: The Djego Edited by: The Djego on 13/01/2008 21:05:31
Originally by: MenanceWhite
Originally by: Cpt Branko post
But name amarr ships using medium sized pulse lasers that you'd pvp with. That you really would need to web.
Nano Zealot?
You can even nano a Omen quite good and the last thing you need for a setup that works outside of Web Range is a Web. Nano Zealot is nothing funny when you meet one that is piloted right. Actualy Omen works better speed fitted than tanked because it simply lacks the Grid for a aceptable combination of Gank and Tank.
Dont know where you saw nanoOmens - i like photo of them This setups just imposible. Cap for mwd and lasers (were talking about pure amarr build without AC, right?). You need 2 capboosters for this setups (so no web and scrambler), and i doubt that you will have at least 3 km/s for nano config, so even med drones and missiles kill you. Zealot (not mention omen) is not vaga - it much slower. Its not demios and have no mwd bonus. Its not even droneboat to use nosfs and drones for damage. Nanoconfig its just flying fun (like BC and 100mn mwd - try it)
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.14 14:42:00 -
[81]
Originally by: The Djego
Sometimes I just wonder if somebody that post things like this even fly Amarr Ships. ...
Dont realy know what to answer. I flied omen long ago (i just dont like maller design to use him). Omen and arbi were my favorite cruisers. I allso fly minmatar cruisers (all amarrs have to crosstrain something, you know.) so i can compare them. and... Some questions to you: Why ppls use nanosetups (i like to hear your answer)? What use have nanoships in fleet fights? What use have "nano"omen when even med drones and allmost all missiles damages you? How long can you tank 5 hammerheads I(120 dps) on omen with 1 adaptive and small reph? How long it takes to kill all of them with 1 assault missile? Do you realy think that pulses with Scorch have use for nanosetups? Show me some examples when nanoomen could be better than any other cruiser (with 90kk isk fit)
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.14 20:17:00 -
[82]
Edited by: PeacefullNub on 14/01/2008 20:20:26 The Djego - im a noob but:
Nanosetups used not to keep distance (not only). Its a kind of tanking when enemy cannot shoot you with closerange weapon, missed with long due transversal, cannot use heavy (>1500 m/s) and med (>3150 km/s) drones (if you could tank lights), cannot damage (or do partial damage) you with heavy missiles.
All nanoships are solomobiles. Nanoconfigs not used in fleetfights - you just cant keep your high transversal vs all enemies, and most closerange targets will ignore you. If they cannot hit you they just shoot your gangmate. So if you whant nanocruiser you need at least 3,150 km/s speed "on orbit" so only light drones and light missiles can hit you.
You dont realy need nano on omen to have speed advantage in your setup - owerdrives work much better. Nanofibers used to aquire high orbiting speed.
I think you underestimate drones. Doubt that you can kill 5 hammerheads that fast. Each of them has about 1500 effective hp and 50m signature. They have 120 dps (158 for t2) - It takes about 80 (50-60 for t2) sec for them to kill your omen. It takes about 5-7 s to lock and 15 seconds to kill 1 of them with asault launcher.If enemy used scoop/deploy tactics - you have no chances. So any ship that has drones (not mention droneboats) is extreamly dangerous for you. So - your nanoomen cant kill most gallentians.
Lets go forward I dont know why you think that missiles do bad dps. Actualy they do best real dps in game (can chose damagetype), only disadvantage - their damage is delayed. Caracl with HAMs and 1 damagemod has same dps as your omen - but it can use your lowest resists. And your speed isnt enough to avoid damage. So your nanoomen cant kill missileboats (maybee it can kill moa if it has blastersetup and poor tank)
Minmatars have better speed, better agility, better damage versatility - so i doubt that they are your targets. You have some chance vs ac rupture (even stabber with mwd has greater speed) But it still has 1 med + 4 lights drones and AC will still hits you on fallof (1/4 dps aprox but it still enough to help drones).
Only amarr cruisers left. Arbi is a droneboat, maller has same range but better tank. Maybe you can kill another omen in tanking setup...
So i must ask again - why you need to put 80kk isks in omen nanoconfig when it will be still useless? Even nano arbi is much better. Omen simply not suited for nano. Dont know why you try to show some nanosetups for worst t1 cruiser in the game - it still be worst nanocruiser. I agree that having speed advantage to stay out of enemy optimal is good, but not for THAT price.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.14 21:41:00 -
[83]
Edited by: PeacefullNub on 14/01/2008 22:00:23
Originally by: The Djego
1. You use Polys on a T1 Cruiser and complain my Fitting price?
of course My setup is teoretical - il be realy surprised if someone will rig omen with polycapbons. I use this just to show why Stabber is better - it can reach 3500 without any rigs.
Originally by: The Djego
3. I think you preat mutch miss the fact that you have to put the MWD of if you orbit to hit anything with the guns that not folows you because of a thing called Trasversal.
as i allready said - this is teoretical setup. Omen just dont suited for nano. It may have low speed an decent tank or great speedtank and low dps.
Originally by: The Djego
4. The small Cap Booster will barely power your Lasers you will cap out in 1-2 Minutes if you need to use the MWD.
4 minutes in my setup - 2 minutes in yours (sry, my mistake - of course it med capbooster)
Originally by: The Djego
5. You mentioned that a real Nano Fitting needs Snakes. Someone that fly Minmatar can say you here you need the snakes only to envade, not to fight.
I said that nanoOmen need snakeset (at least lowgrade) becouse he is to slow compared with any other nanohip. Why you allways try to switch subject?
Originally by: The Djego
6. Im preaty sorry but I see a EFT Fitting in front of me that is not tested on the Server...
Did i said that this is real fitting? I just said that this is real nanoomen fit. Of course no one will fly that thing becouse there is many better opportunities.
Edited
Originally by: The Djego
2. this is more like 20 M(you can even use a bare T1 Cap booster makes no diffrence realy), The Rig is to preaty cheap.
your omen setup is 80-90kk isk. Belive me - i know prices on faction pds - you need ts/db pds to make at least pulses setup work (beam setup has no cpu to fit btw). About realistic: I dont see a logic - we could compare only 5 lvl vs 5 lvl skills. Or you suggested that perfect omen (and you must have many 5 lvl skills for your fit) is "not that bad" becouse it can kill some cruiser with lower skills? You dont need omen for that case...
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.14 23:01:00 -
[84]
Originally by: The Djego
1. Well I used a real Fitting. Yes it is in my Hangar.You try to fit a T1 Cruiser for 120 M to show that a other T1 Cruiser is better??? You realy think It is all about the Speed and by this one atribute the Stabber is better than the Omen? Also you mentioned you can fly a Stabber. This makes your Post well, lets say strange.
Remove polycarbons if you dont like the price - 3k speed ist bad (but fast med drones will cach you). Anyway this discusion is pointless. Omen is worst t1 cruiser (even if it isnt that bad - it still worst). And it only slightly better in your config, but still worst compared to same configs for different cruisers.
Originally by: The Djego
/edit I youst mentioned I designed the Setup with AWU 3 since this is the Level my 2. Char has it fits without the PDU at AWU 4... sometimes EFT is still not to bad Is it possible that you fail at EFT?
your truth - i remake your setup - all seams to be fine But im noob - i have right to make mistakes
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.16 12:02:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Ruciza
They know where Amarr needs a boost and have said so a million times. They consider Amarr fine, with only a few tweaks necessary.
Then its not big deal for them to say it another time in this thread. Maybe just to show some respect to 1600 posts threas and to all pps who posted here?
Originally by: Ruciza
Their big problem is that it's difficult to communicate their design for Amarr to you, because you either do not want to fly it like that or cannot understand how the Amarr fleet wants to be flown.
Its realy easy to comunicate. And it is essential for good gamedesigner to know gamers ideas and needs, just to create good game. If we (amarrs) dont whant to fly new design ships - this design is bad (for amarrs - maybe its good for caldary like khanid ships). If we (amarrs) cant understand their ballance - then ballance is broken (but maybe its good for another races to have heavily tanked easy frags). Becouse we fly this ships - not them. We can see how bad their designs in real combat and their balance in overall game situations.
Originally by: Ruciza
Imagine you have created a wonderful balance, but it's too difficult for many to understand. You can't go and tell your customers they're too stupid. That means with the Amarr boost they will tell you indirectly.
If they will call all amarr players stupid and show us facts and proofs of that - then we are indeed stupid. But if they cant (just like many ppls who said "amarrs fine, stop whinning")- then they are stupid, dont you think so? And looks like only players showed some proofs that amarr ships are broken.
Originally by: Ruciza
But don't expect a real buff of laser damage or something.
Do you tried to read this thread before posting nonsens like this? Or do you think that dps buff is only way to solve laser problem? Do you know what is laser problem btw? Lasers have problem with cap usage and with cap_reduction_bonus on ships. All other issues like tracking/em+termal damage/high fit reqs not essential. Of course they need some balancing - but only when cap usage and second ship bonus problems will be solved. I think that amarr problems only becouse ccp thinks your way: "amarrs are fine, they got nice_dps_on_paper so no buff for you. What, you dont need dps buff? You just stupid - everyone needs dps buff, we will just ignore you."
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.16 17:42:00 -
[86]
Edited by: PeacefullNub on 16/01/2008 17:42:46 Becouse...
Originally by: Orgos Khenn
Amarr suck.
..and we need to..
Originally by: Orgos Khenn
Fly something else.
Thx for bumping this thread :)
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.16 20:49:00 -
[87]
Edited by: PeacefullNub on 16/01/2008 20:51:11
Originally by: Orgos Khenn 5) You can crosstrain.
Wow! Now i see the light! We all must crosstrain! But wait a minute - we allready crosstrained different race and our native amarr ships still sucks. Oh Godly One - your sloution didnt helped - burn him! No, realy - do you seriously think that there is no difference betwin ignoring problem and trying to solve it? Maybe you tried to be original? I dissapoint you - youre not the first, and not the last TROLL in this thread.
Lets get back to constructive discussions (at least its better than simply bumping). I like to hear your thoughts about rebalancing amarr/gallente stealthbombers. I know that CCP loves missiles and tries to put them on every ship but... is there any way to use turrets on bombers (and what bonuses they must have for that role)? Or maybe just better bomb bonuses instead of cruises?
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.17 08:52:00 -
[88]
I understand them in some case. Its much easier to avoid a problem and pretend that everything is fine, then admiting that you made a mistake and ignored it for 3,5 years. Even for selfrespect. So instead of fixing amarrs they tried to boost/nerf other races to fix game balance indirectly. Devs: Its realy no shame to admit your own fault. It takes more strenght to face a problem, then to simply close your eyes.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.18 11:44:00 -
[89]
Originally by: SkyCrane Edited by: SkyCrane on 18/01/2008 08:52:54 I don't get it. Where do you get them numbers from? Yes I'm really bad at math so don't flame me for noe understanding it... And why did you leave out the Flying Rubbishbin which goes under the name of Typhoon? ..no you didn't, I must learn to read it seems...
Edit: corrected a faulty statement
ship damagebonus x turret slots + all other slots. Od something like this. But i dont think that we can compare ships using this method - its looks like black magic for me
For example abaddon vs mael: 1) 25% damagemod vs 25% rof damagemod is better for volley damage and better capusage (ammo usage for non laser ships) 25% rof gives better (33%) dps 2) 25% resists vs 30% shield boosting extra resist are better for plated setups (where abaddon shines) , extra boost is avesome for active tanking (mael is one of the best activetanking bs in game) Mael has same pg but better cpu than abaddon, more drones, damage verstility - so even better real dps If we talk about large fleet battles (or situations where capusage is not issue) - abaddon with passive tank is better. But if we talk about all other situations (missions, ratting, solo pvp, small gang pvp) mael wins.
Hudge capusege is amarr curse (not ship) and it deeds to be despealed.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.18 16:15:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
how do you like my proposal about Amarr cruisers?
BS allso need same things (laser cap reduction and real second bonus). And tachs need lower fit reqs.
Originally by: Cpt Branko
You want to PvP effectively w/out skills? LOL.
Also, cap skills to V are practically a MUST today for all pilots. Thermodynamics requirements dictate it.
Its not about cap skills - they are generaly learned by all races. its about ship skills. You need 4-5 lvl of ship skill just to stay in battle for 2 minutes or longer without capbooster (or to stay with capbooster and mwd). for example abaddon has no cap reduction bonus - so lasers eat cap with full strength. 8 megabeams on it(not even tachs) used allmost same amount of cap as 2 LAR. Your own weapon burns your cap faster than enemy neitralizer
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.18 17:19:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
I wasn't so sure about Amarr BS - but, I guess they could use the same thing. However, the DPS output would be too awesome if you stuck *another* damage bonus on them, especially considering they would have a combination of awesome range and awesome damage with pulses.
I dont whant dps boost either - lasers have good raw dps. Blasters still better in terms of dps, ac still have damage versatility. But laser ships definetly need real second bonus (laser related bonus) - i dont see a reason why all ships have 2 of them and laserboats have hudge capusage (even at 5lvl) and only 1 real bonus.
Originally by: Cpt Branko
As for Tachs needing lower fitting - I'm not so sure. They're the most awesome long-range gun of them all (unless you are aiming for pure max range, in which case you want to use a rail rokh or something).
Beams (and tachs) have worst fitting reqs in game. No one can use all turret slots for tachs without rcu. Compare tach II vs 1400mm II. Arties have better CPU and PG fittings. If you think that amarrs have better cpu and pg - compare abaddon and mael.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.18 19:53:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
(a) Maller getting owned in a L2 mission is LOL.
Yes, but its realy big differece betwin lvl 2 caracl and maller missions. All amarr laserboats extreamly useless for missionruning, especialy at low sp lvl. They simply cannot tank and fire at the same time. I personly used arbi for 2-3 lvl missionruning and it was great.
Originally by: Cpt Branko
(b) You are discussing PvE balance.
This thread is about owerall game balance. If some ships are useless for pvp, then they must be at least usefull for pve, dont you think so? If they are useless for pve and pvp, then they must be at least much cheaper. And if they are simply useless - this is not balance, every ship in game must have a role.
Even bestower has a role - its great indi for 800k sp alts
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.18 20:17:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: PeacefullNub
Originally by: Cpt Branko
(a) Maller getting owned in a L2 mission is LOL.
Yes, but its realy big differece betwin lvl 2 caracl and maller missions. All amarr laserboats extreamly useless for missionruning, especialy at low sp lvl. They simply cannot tank and fire at the same time.
Say it with me... Maller... passive... SHIELD... tank. Optionally one AB, one invul, rest LSEs, a couple of heat sinks, PDUs mixed with SPRs just to perma-run everything. It just works.
Sad but true.
Lol - amarrs cannot use shieldtanks with lasers (i tried)becouse: 1) they have no skills at low lvl 2) they not have enough meds for SE so it needs 3-4 SPR in low 3) if they have skills - lasers will eat all cap (especialy with SPR) for invuls\fields. Not mentioning ab 4) if amarrs use missiles + passive shildtank they decided to fly caldary :) if amarrs use projectiles + active shild tank (if they have med slots of course) - they decided to fly minmatr :)
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.19 16:27:00 -
[94]
New portion of craizy ideas: I allways wounder - why eve BS use only large turrets? Its just unreal that hudge BS with 2-3kk crew has only 8 large turrets and 5 drones. Maybe adding some special high slots with restriction in weapon sise/type will help?
Main idea is to balance ships with low/none drone brandwich For example if BS has only 75mb drone brandwich - he gets 2 extra weapon slots (med sized weapons only) for extra protection versus med sized targets. If cruiser has no drones at all (like maller) - it has 3 additional small sized turrets (vs drones and frigs)
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.19 18:47:00 -
[95]
Edited by: PeacefullNub on 19/01/2008 18:48:34
Originally by: Dlardrageth
Nifty idea, but I think it would better work on a battlecruiser (the mixed-size weaponry). Both in terms of terminology fitting in-game ship as in terms of implementation. Simply give the Tier-2 BCs two slots which can fit large turrets/bay.
Dont think that BC will have enough fit reqs for L size turrets. Maybe some tier 2 T2 BC in future
Originally by: Dlardrageth
Won't happen. Can you imagine the whinefest on these forums if Amarr get a cruiser with 8 turret slots? Rabble, rabble, whine, whine, rabble, rabble... And I think it would be abit IMBA, tbh. If I really need a drone defense on the Maller, I have always the option to fit smartbombs... FWIW.
Maller is just an example. If ship A = ship B but B has more drones, shouldnt A has something in exchange? Many usefull ships today usualy have more drones than their analogs, but same slots. Maybe thats why they are better?
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.20 13:11:00 -
[96]
Edited by: PeacefullNub on 20/01/2008 13:14:14
Originally by: Felysta Sandorn
Do those four points, and the Harbinger will be a competitive battlecruiser.
I think this is too much. With extra dps/drone bonus it will be one of the best (if not simply best) gank BC in game. With defensive bonuses it will be best combination of tank and damage in game. But simply reducting cap usage and PG reqs for lasers, and switching cap_usage_bonus to something minior (tracking, sensor resolution, drone control range, fallof bonus etc.) will give harbi more versatility and new setups to be competentive.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.20 14:12:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Dristra
If it is not supposed to be the best gank bc, what is it supposed to be best at?
I dont whant amarr ships to be best at something. I whant them to be different, so that noone can clearly said "harbi is the best" or "Huricane is clearly better than harbi in every aspect".
You cant compare for example droneboat and missile boat, becouse their weapon systems and bonuses are diffirent. Its silly, but you can compare laserboat and any other turret ship.
Lasers and lasersips must have something special in them (not ammo switching bug), not just "lasers are hybrids with greater capusage and lower dps. Lasers are projektiles with capusage and without damageversatility. etc."
Originally by: Dristra
Giving Amarr ew drone bonus would make no sense, be too good, and kick Caldari in the nuts
I just tried to find place for amarrs that is not used by another race. As i know - noone has EW drone bonuses on ships - only DPS and HP drone bonuses. So EW drones may give amarr ships some extra med slots - for example web drones.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.20 18:03:00 -
[98]
Originally by: General StarScream Amarr need a Nerf.
Could i ask you 1 thing? Keep bumping this thread (at least 1 per day). Of course many ppls dont understand you, and thinks that you are trolling. But i know that this is your way to help amarrs And btw - keep pretend even more stupid. When ppls will try to compare pro and cons in this thread, they must see alot of you. THX
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.21 09:31:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Anyway, 'bump so CCP sees the thread' is lol. People see it. Does whining about ships which are quite fine help?
People see that CCP dont see it Maybe there was oficial response that i missd?
Anyway - this thread clearly shows 1 thing - CCP dont care, dont even tried to. They just ignore word "amarr".
They dont care about constructive discisions, dont care about whining either, dont care about trolling, have no respect to readers, have no self respect IF thread is about amarrs in any way.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.21 12:17:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Well, ignoring and not replying are two different things.
I like logical constructions:
1. if they ignore amarr threads they... a) dont see any problem and denie the fact that problem can exist. (realy stupid and childish) b) dont whant to see it becouse they allready know about problem existence and about all possible solutions. (but for some unknown reason they dont do anything - they dont care)
2. if they read, but not reply any amarr thread they... a) have no respect to custumers to spend 1-2 min on conversation. (but they have respect\time to reply on diffirent threads) b) dont see any profs of problem existance (95% of readers aggred that amarrs need fixes or rebalance - not enough?) c) have orders from abowe to keep silence becouse.. c1) Boss dont see problem (p1) c2) They worked on solutions in silence (realy stupid - there is no harm in discussing possible solutions with custumers to see their reaction. In the end we will fly new ships - not devs)
I personly think that it either c1 (all of them simply cannot be so stupid - most likely its 1-2 of bosses), or c2 (im realy afraid of that - ccp allready showed that they know nothing about amarrs - so most likely they silently created another stupid useless thing and calld it "amarr boost", like many times before)
Constructive disscutions? its 1600+ posts thread - allmost all ships/modules (even not amarrs) were allready disscused and compared. Many solutions have been added. Its imposible to be constructive without repeating someone post (especialy when you dont know what devs think about this).
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.21 14:39:00 -
[101]
Edited by: PeacefullNub on 21/01/2008 14:42:35
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 21/01/2008 13:33:14
Originally by: PeacefullNub
c2) They worked on solutions in silence (realy stupid - there is no harm in discussing possible solutions with custumers to see their reaction. In the end we will fly new ships - not devs)
Well, they did not reply to the Khanid Mk 2 thread either. They did almost exactly as proposed, and have made a line of awesome ships (yes, they do not use lasers, but Khanid were not meant to use lasers anyway). So don't rule c2) out as a option - they've done it before, and done it very well.
That exacly what happens when they do not discussed their boost plans with player comunity.
They create awesome ships indeed but..
Did they solve laser problem? No - they simply replace it. Did they thinked about that amarrs will be most SP heavy race in game? No - they simply created good ships, when you look at them apart from all other amarr ships theme (i wonder why they not added shield tanking on them).
All that happens only becouse they were silent. Is it realy was so diffcult to discuss incoming boost before finaly use it? To hear pro and cons that players see in this decisions?
But they keep silence and now they wounder why after "khanid boost" amarrs still whining
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Solution, in my view:
general game solutions: 1) Fix damn reload jamming bug
Laser problem solutions 1) Decrease lasercapusage of all lasers by 40-50% 2) Remowe laser_cap_repuction bonus from all ships (this bonus is useless artifact from 2004) 3) give: dps bonuses to all laser ships without it, defensive/general bonuses to all ships with it 4) reduce beams fit reqs by 10-15%
Alternative solution 1) Sanshas solution - 1/2 turrets slots +100% damage faction bonus (also replacing laser_cap_usage bonus with something usefull)
Khanid ships 1) Give them additional laser bonus so ppsl can chose betwin laserboat and missile boat 2) Remove lasers from the game and replace them with missiles (CCP likes to avoid a problems with missiles, arent they?) 3) Give all amarr characters missile skills (even if it means more started SP than other races) 4) Simply return lasers and laser bonuses on them after laser problem fixing - khanid ships will be still awesome, but not for caldary and minmatar
Originally by: Ion hound
I could write a list of amarrian drawbacks and make innovative suggestions how to fix them, but probably everything was said already in this 50page thread, so I leave it to the great minds of Eve.
No - we like to hear them - more solution posts - better
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.21 17:27:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Blutreiter
If you lower general cap usage from energy weapons by... say 10%. AND you keep the cap bonus for the weapon, at maximum skill level you will use less cap than today, maybe even less than hybrids (remember, we're the cap race, so why not?) and much more important, you will reach the USEABLE level to be competitive sooner than now. ... Thoughts?
While you compare lasers vs hybrids its looks good. But if you compare lasers vs projektiles...
Its allways better to use AC on amarr ships becouse: a) Better damage versatility -> better real dps (even without ship dps bonuses - you can chose weakest enemy resist) b) 0 cap usage -> 100% cap reduction bonus (no matter of your lvl)
laser_cap_reduction bonus must been replaced (or all weapons must use cap - including projektiles and missiles - so this bonus have some sense)
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.21 18:02:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Goumindong
Khanid has nothing to do with Amarr being skill intensive. All the Khanid changes were awesome, and it only makes you look like an idiot when you whine and ***** about them.
Im a noob. maybe you right - how long it takes to learn all rockets and HAM related skills (including generaly dps + range skills)? And where could i use them beside 1 ceptor 1 af 1 HAC and 1 comand ship? When i trained gunnery skills i know at least that amarr frigs, then cruisers, then bc, then bs, even dreads need them
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.21 19:25:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Goumindong
it doesnt take long to learn HAMs and supports to a reasonable level. Train them after you get into HACs.
It takes for me 154d to learn ham II and rokets + all suport skills at 5
It takes 13d just to use hams II + 17 days to learn support skills at 3-4 lvl.
it takes 23 days to use any other racial AF, ceptor, hac, recon, command (racial frigate lvl 5 + racial cruiser lvl 5).
So i must ask you a question: if you must to chose: all racial t1 and t2 ships (without Indi, BS and capitals) or only 4 ships at decent lvl (3-4 lvl of missiles skills) - what will be your answer?
Why i must spend my time to learn missiles just to fly 4 ships at decent lvl, if i can just learn gallente\minmatar ships at that time and use similar weapon systems, same ship classes and my gunnery skills. I even may use ishkur and ishtar - at least drone SP needed for amarr recons and carriers.
Im never said that khanid mk II are bad. They just more usefull to learn for caldary (who has missile specialization and many missile ships for later usage) than for pure amarr.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.22 09:44:00 -
[105]
Originally by: burek Ok, I'm noticing a disturbing pattern here and it's a bit annoying.
People saying why do I have to learn missiles to use a few ships. Have you had a look at other races?
I had. And had you tried to look at amarr skills and amarr ships before posting this nonsense?
Originally by: burek
Minmatar have to learn guns & missiles.
No - you can chose projektile ships or projektile+missile ships in allmost all categories (how many ships have missile bonuses?). You can easily avoid missiles if you dont whant to train them and still find good turret ship to fly.
Originally by: burek
Gallente have to learn missiles for only a couple ships.
rly? for what ships they realy need missiles (dont tell me about 1 SB)? They may use high drone specialization or hybrid specialization. They have drone ships and hybrid ships to chose in all classes.
Originally by: burek Caldari have to learn hybrids for some ships.
They have at least 1 missile and 1 hybrid ship in allmost all t1 and t2 classes.
Originally by: burek
That argument is invalid
Now try to look at amarr: -> all frigs use lases and have laser bonuses -> all laser cruisers are crap and arbi needs high drone skills -> all BC use lasers -> all BS use lasers T1 ships have laser specialisation (with exeption of arbi) -> khanid ships need rokets and hams, sb need cruises -> ew frig and recons need drones -> all other t2 ships need lasers
Now try to show amarr pilot way to avoid training gunery and use only missile or drone spec. You cant - becouse 1) there is no t1 drone frig, drone bc, drone bs for full drone thread (now look at gallente for example) 2) there is no t1 missile ships at all (now look at caldary) 3) only laser (gunery) thread is possible
of course you can buy specialised char (or use 6 mounth to train t2 alt for sacre without gunery at all) - but its different story .
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.22 11:26:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
No, it means you're lazy to train anything except ship skills and lasers.
Yes - im lazy. I hate to do useless job. So i try to made racional decisions.
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Caldari have to train guns to use their entire ship line-up in addition to missiles.
Nonsense. Most caldary players dont even know what is tracking - they entierly happy with missiles only.
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Same way you have to forget about Khanid MK II if you are not willing to go through a relatively short train to get missiles and decent skills for them.
Explain me - why it takes less time to crosstrain gallente to use their t2 ships then to use my own?
For khanid mkII line to work properly devs must give maller, prophesy, apoc (maybe paladin) missile bonuses and missile slots - so amarr player could chose missile+drones or gunnery+drones from the start and not gunnery+drones+missiles. But they didnt.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.22 13:15:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Hitme Harder
Why on earth would you want paladin to be a missile boat?
Dont make a mistake - i dont whant it.
I just tried to show for some non-amarr players why amarrs MUST train 3 different weapon systems (unlike all other races) in order to use t1 and t2 ships, and what needs to be done to solve it.
To use missile+drones or gunnery+drones we need to have at least 1 ship with same weaponsystem in all (allmost) categories - including T2 BS. (at least thats fair). That means redeemer or paladin must use missiles. I think that paladin is better choise.
Its optional - but if all amarr t2 BS use gunnery - that means gunnery+drone thread is better to learn. (look at caldary for example - they have disbalanced missile ship thread - gunnery thread gives poor choise)
Of course all that i said about t1 missile ships will never happen - CCP dont (or dont whant to) see any problem with khanid ship thread.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.24 11:23:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
I don't know. Out of the last three ships I killed, two were polycarbon-rigged, and no Huggins/Rapiers or Hyenas were involved in the killing. It's not *that* hard.
Just curious - you killed them on omen or maller with lasers?
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.26 13:59:00 -
[109]
A Light of hope?
So what CCP could do?
1)Real amarr boost - something like reducing laser cap and replacing cap usage bonus. dont thik this happens... 2)Minior ship fixes most likely they just give hungry dogs (metaphore) a bone and called it "dinner". Still better than nothing, as long as Devs will understand that it isnt promised boost. 3)Replacing a problem with different one.
Any news?
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.27 09:41:00 -
[110]
Originally by: General StarScream lol dude get real gallente uses allmost as mutch cap, for lower range and same dps.
(without ship bonuses):
Megapulse II used 5.3 cap/s (x2.2) 48 dps (90%) Neutron II used 2.4 cap/s (x1) 55 dps (100%)
Quote: It's a starscream post, why did you even bother to reply
We realy need that troll here, you know.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.27 22:56:00 -
[111]
About tier 2 omen vs tier 3 thorax: Of course it isnt correct but... How many times ppls in this thread tried to prove their words "amarr is fine" with tier 2 mega vs tier 3 abaddon? Why not mega vs apoc for example? Of course thats fair, as long as it suits your needs
The Djego Your omen setup is interesting, but its nothing special in it. You can use same type of fittings for allmost any cruiser - and many of them will have some advantage over omen. Only 1 advantage that i can see here - good optimal of pulse lasers. But any other race could simply use long range weapon and they will have better range or damage versatility and same dps.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.28 07:54:00 -
[112]
Edited by: PeacefullNub on 28/01/2008 07:54:48
Originally by: Arlenna Molatov I dont know if this idea has been presented before but I'm not giong to read through 62 bloody pages--
Why not introduce a new class of energy turrets that adds a kinetic dmg ability to lasers? New technology and all that jazz. Of course there would be a little increase in the fitting reqs..as adding a kin ability to a laser will surely require either more power or CPU...most likely power.
New crystals can be added or old ones changed to allow the effect as well or bonuses to it.
Long ago CCP tried to add Blaze (explozive) crystals for amarrs - but players suggested that amarrs will be overpowered. Maybe they were right atm.
But today amarrs could use something like that - just to have damage versatility that other races allready have.
I dont think amarrs need firepower and dps - we have nice dps for nice range. All we need - ability to use this range and this dps in combat.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.29 14:15:00 -
[113]
Looks like CCP found more impotant problems to fix: jump freiters and asteroids. Dont look at amarrs - we could wait for 3 years, you know
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.31 07:31:00 -
[114]
Amarr boost yeah?
Dont realy know is this "boost" good or bad. They boosted em damage and nerfed tank - its like double edge sword for amarrs.
But they nerfed shield expl rez (+minmatar dps vs shields), and armor em rez (+minmatar dps vs armor).
If amarrs got only +dps vs armor tank, minmatars got +dps vs all types of tank
Correct me if im wrong.
P.S. Anyway better than nothing
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.31 09:59:00 -
[115]
We definetly need laser cap fix and second ship bonus now.
If they boosted laser and projectile dps - it just make AC/arty setups on amarr ships even better :(
Anyway minmatar also need some minior boost :)
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.31 10:36:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Now, basic maths: 80% of your damage has gotten a 10% boost, 40% of my damage has gotten a 10% boost. Who got a bigger boost in absolute terms?
its not correct - for example multiF L has 28 em + 20 thermal - 58% of amarr dps got 10% boost vs armor
EMP l has 20 em 8 kin 16 exp 45% dps has 10% boost vs armor AND 36% dps has 10% boost vs shield
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.31 14:22:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Malken i hear that megapulse2 with conflag got worse tracking then a revelations guns, does anyother race have that problem with worse tracking then their own dreadnaught?
Not revelation, but whorse than any non laser dread with close weapon. And its pure tracking - without turret sig resolution taken in account.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.31 14:36:00 -
[118]
...and transversal (or speed/expl velocity for missiles) - but it is chance to hit target. Of course megapulse with conflag has better chance to hit than XL weapon, but its fact that tracking bar in megabeam info will be whorse than ion siedge blasters for example.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.31 15:11:00 -
[119]
Mila Prestocquote - repeat after me: "Megapulses + conflag has whorse tracking than XL close range weapon" Jonny JoJo - now your turn: "but megapuses will hit targets better than XL weapon becouse of better turret signature resolution"
Any problem now?
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.02.02 11:44:00 -
[120]
Another devblog...
Now its caldary+amarr boost devblog
Zealot and omen now have 5 turret slots - but no fitting boost for them. Apoc is best med to long range sniper ingame now. But any future laser fix will make it even more overpowered (so i quess there will be no laser fixes).
TD now kills optimal+fallof. Good, but anyway amarrs have not many ew slots.
I just dont understand why CCP avoided general laser problems (cap usage+second ship bonus)?
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.04.29 15:27:00 -
[121]
/me casts ressurection spell
Is everything fine now? No, realy? They throwed us a bone and we gladly acepted it.
So back to basis
Apoc is he overpowered now? It definetly very, veary good (Yay! amarrs now have good fleet sniper and good missionboat). I personly think that "Apoc experiment" (2 real ship bonuses, fixed laser fittings and cap usage all in 1 ship) was succsessfull. Maybe its time to fix entire race? And what about 2 other BS compared with it? It just stupid when tier 2 BS better than his faction analog (Yes, devs "forgot" about that), his t2 analog and tier 1,3 BS. What about poor retributions meds? (and about all AF btw) What about zealot and omen pg? What about laser capusage and this stupid laser_cap_reduction bonus on every ship!?
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.04.30 23:58:00 -
[122]
So peacefull and silent here...
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