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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.17 03:19:00 -
[871]
Originally by: Anacrit Mc'Sinister
Quote: Ah sod it, you aren't even reading my posts (click that link for instance, oh look cruise missile, not a frigate...)
thats right - leave - you have nothing to put in to this. you fly galanty which is by all acounts the most powerfull race. you dont fly amarr...JUST reading teh patch notest IS NOT ENOUGH.
The main problem here - subjectivity of opinions. For example the person did not fly on amarr ships and has no concept, what is cap problems, low tracking and pg fitting. But he knows that such problems with range of blasters and cpu fittings. As a result: "improvement of lasers and tracking is pure boost, becouse they have no problems with range and cpu (and there are other important problems?), and improvement of blasters, and rails is only necessary fixing - becouse they are difficult to fit, etc." but sadly, when patches boosted their weapons, they forget favourite phrase "all weapon should have lacks and advantages" Projektiles and hybrids have some disadvantages, but sadly - ac\arti\blaster fits are common on amarr ships, but laser fits never used on mega for example. So i think that lasers are broken
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Dillius Archania
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.17 04:48:00 -
[872]
Originally by: PeacefullNub
Originally by: Anacrit Mc'Sinister
Quote: Ah sod it, you aren't even reading my posts (click that link for instance, oh look cruise missile, not a frigate...)
thats right - leave - you have nothing to put in to this. you fly galanty which is by all acounts the most powerfull race. you dont fly amarr...JUST reading teh patch notest IS NOT ENOUGH.
The main problem here - subjectivity of opinions. For example the person did not fly on amarr ships and has no concept, what is cap problems, low tracking and pg fitting. But he knows that such problems with range of blasters and cpu fittings. As a result: "improvement of lasers and tracking is pure boost, becouse they have no problems with range and cpu (and there are other important problems?), and improvement of blasters, and rails is only necessary fixing - becouse they are difficult to fit, etc." but sadly, when patches boosted their weapons, they forget favourite phrase "all weapon should have lacks and advantages" Projektiles and hybrids have some disadvantages, but sadly - ac\arti\blaster fits are common on amarr ships, but laser fits never used on mega for example. So i think that lasers are broken
Sheerly by the number of forum posts complaining, there has to be some kind of problem.
It's not like our suggestions will be taken into consideration much anyways (method of the NOS nerf anyone?). CCP will be the one to decide changes if (when, hopefully) something happens.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.12.17 06:16:00 -
[873]
Originally by: Dillius Archania
It's not like our suggestions will be taken into consideration much anyways (method of the NOS nerf anyone?). CCP will be the one to decide changes if (when, hopefully) something happens.
That is what i fear. CCP allready showed that their metods of solving problems sometimes... questionable. And still no response from devs here. So its quite possible that we will have another stupid skilltree misplace like they done in khanid mk2 - and ironicly, they will call it "amarr boost" (i guess it will be shield tanking on chantum conglomerate ships - its only 1 left that amarrs dont need to learn today). And another 2 years to prove that problem still exist.
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Verx Interis
Amarr Aurora Security
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Posted - 2007.12.17 07:38:00 -
[874]
Just something I thought of after I posted my last thread....
What if lasers had their cap usage changed so Amarr didn't need the other bonus, and Amarr ships got a 10% reduction in the stacking nerf instead?
Essentially, this would half return the old 8 damage mod gankageddons, but with only 4 or 5 HS instead of 8. This gives you the option of really heavy damage at the expense of cap/tank, or heavy tank at the expense of damage (as the bonus affects EAN's and hardners too). But in order to achieve this above-average tank, you need to use 4 or 5 lows for EANs, and have less for heat sinks, and to get the extra gank, you need 4 or 5 HSII, and less of a tank.
Thoughts..? -----sig-starts-here------
Witty stuff goes here |
The Djego
Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2007.12.17 10:42:00 -
[875]
Edited by: The Djego on 17/12/2007 10:54:53 Edited by: The Djego on 17/12/2007 10:53:50
Originally by: Verx Interis Just something I thought of after I posted my last thread....
What if lasers had their cap usage changed so Amarr didn't need the other bonus, and Amarr ships got a 10% reduction in the stacking nerf instead?
Essentially, this would half return the old 8 damage mod gankageddons, but with only 4 or 5 HS instead of 8. This gives you the option of really heavy damage at the expense of cap/tank, or heavy tank at the expense of damage (as the bonus affects EAN's and hardners too). But in order to achieve this above-average tank, you need to use 4 or 5 lows for EANs, and have less for heat sinks, and to get the extra gank, you need 4 or 5 HSII, and less of a tank.
Thoughts..?
This is a bit to special as all other Ships got more or less standard Boni. Besides it would make balacing of the Ships nearly impossibel since many of the Ships have more Low Slots than the other Races it would tend to create pure Gank on the BS that are ok today(Gedon and Abbadon).
I stated my Opinion on Page 28. I think giving a better role to the Ships that tend to tank without changing mutch on Lasers and the Ships with the Damage Boni. This would be a proper way to rebalance the Ships that tend to be less usefull and keeping balance to the Ships that are atm.
Btw can everybody clam down a bit. The Laser vs Hybrid and Amarr vs Galente of the last 2 Pages is not very constructive and make the Thread booring to read. Please keep more to Topic and about what you think is wrong(bring it to a point) and what would be a possible solution to change it. Keep in Mind that big changes on many Ships will most likly not happen because they are very difficult to balance out. Spamming a Thread would make this one more or less a wast of time and focus like all the other Amarr fix Threads.
Thank you. Nerf Tank, boost Gank! XD
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SkyCrane
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Posted - 2007.12.17 12:46:00 -
[876]
I think it could be solved quite easily by reducing the capconsumption on lasers, changing the unimaginative 10 bonus to capconsumption to something else should do the trick.
About the Curse/Pilgrim, can anyone please explain to me why it was necessary to nerf them ships so brutally? I apreciate the fact that NOS was overpowered, and you saw ships fitting nothing but NOS and relying on drones to bring down the oponent. That problem could'e been fixed quite easily by giving ships a limited amount of NOS/Neutralizer hardpoints, instead of an overly complicated formula which I personally don't understand anything of :( It has to be said that I suck at math, so if anyone could try to explain that to me I'd be ever so gratefull :) ------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: Please feel free to ignore typoes... I suck at typing... :) |
The Djego
Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2007.12.17 12:55:00 -
[877]
Originally by: SkyCrane I think it could be solved quite easily by reducing the capconsumption on lasers, changing the unimaginative 10 bonus to capconsumption to something else should do the trick.
About the Curse/Pilgrim, can anyone please explain to me why it was necessary to nerf them ships so brutally? I apreciate the fact that NOS was overpowered, and you saw ships fitting nothing but NOS and relying on drones to bring down the oponent. That problem could'e been fixed quite easily by giving ships a limited amount of NOS/Neutralizer hardpoints, instead of an overly complicated formula which I personally don't understand anything of :( It has to be said that I suck at math, so if anyone could try to explain that to me I'd be ever so gratefull :)
You canŠt Nos People to the ground anymore. Since you canŠt get Cap of something that has less Cap than you in %. So it is impossible to feed your own Tank with Nos and killing the Tank on the other Ship on the same Time. Well the Amarr Reacons got hit very Hard by this.
Mayby a Bonus to reduce the Cap use on Neutraliser would be nice. Nerf Tank, boost Gank! XD
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Cainne
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.17 19:00:00 -
[878]
testing
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Madla Mafia
The Dead Man's Hand
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Posted - 2007.12.17 19:01:00 -
[879]
"Oomph" - The sound of CCP kicking Amarr in the stomach. Usually followed by "Shut up!" ------------------------------------------ Amarr - getting screwed since 2005. |
Dillius Archania
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.17 19:56:00 -
[880]
Originally by: The Djego
You canŠt Nos People to the ground anymore. Since you canŠt get Cap of something that has less Cap than you in %. So it is impossible to feed your own Tank with Nos and killing the Tank on the other Ship on the same Time. Well the Amarr Reacons got hit very Hard by this.
Really seems to be the problem particularly with the Pilgrim. Once, it could both damage the enemies cap and maintain it's own for a tank for defense. Now, it can only choose to do one or the other.
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Jill Antaris
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Posted - 2007.12.17 22:35:00 -
[881]
Edited by: Jill Antaris on 17/12/2007 22:42:21 /signed
Lasers should be more effective against omni Tanks. It is a bit hardcore forcing Lasers most of the Time to beat 60-80% Resitance. To be honest it donŠt make a diffrence if the Ship is T1 or T2. On T2 Ships EM Resitance(ok Mini is a other Story) is lower as on T1 atm. We need more Thermal, not Kinetic or Explosive! There is a reason nobody fits a EM Hardner in PVP.
Ps. Damn missed the 900 mark close.
Nerf Lasers! Thay need far to less CPU and Grid to Fit. Still using not enught Cap and do far to mutch Damage. O wait... they allready did... =( |
Felysta Sandorn
Caldari System-Lords Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.12.18 00:22:00 -
[882]
Originally by: Jill Antaris Ps. Damn missed the 900 mark close.
Unlucky!
Latest Video, Click Here!
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Jonny JoJo
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.18 00:27:00 -
[883]
Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 18/12/2007 00:28:20
Originally by: Verx Interis Just something I thought of after I posted my last thread....
What if lasers had their cap usage changed so Amarr didn't need the other bonus, and Amarr ships got a 10% reduction in the stacking nerf instead?
Essentially, this would half return the old 8 damage mod gankageddons, but with only 4 or 5 HS instead of 8. This gives you the option of really heavy damage at the expense of cap/tank, or heavy tank at the expense of damage (as the bonus affects EAN's and hardners too). But in order to achieve this above-average tank, you need to use 4 or 5 lows for EANs, and have less for heat sinks, and to get the extra gank, you need 4 or 5 HSII, and less of a tank.
Thoughts..?
yes. Sansha
Nightmare fixed Amarr - I know it sounds crazy, but yes - its a great ship since it does what Amarr ships are ment to. It can fit a rack of guns, do good damage, have tracking the same as another racec, have half fittig/cap for lasers due to 4 double turrets.
Plenty of mids gives it flexibility, 5 lows are real lows so 2-3 rcu's are not needed. They took what was wrong with Amarr and sorted it into Sansha. Bravo.
CCP, take the Nightmare, take off a high and a mid and call it a new abaddon - everyone will love you for it.
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Dillius Archania
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.18 06:21:00 -
[884]
Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 18/12/2007 00:28:20
Originally by: Verx Interis Just something I thought of after I posted my last thread....
What if lasers had their cap usage changed so Amarr didn't need the other bonus, and Amarr ships got a 10% reduction in the stacking nerf instead?
Essentially, this would half return the old 8 damage mod gankageddons, but with only 4 or 5 HS instead of 8. This gives you the option of really heavy damage at the expense of cap/tank, or heavy tank at the expense of damage (as the bonus affects EAN's and hardners too). But in order to achieve this above-average tank, you need to use 4 or 5 lows for EANs, and have less for heat sinks, and to get the extra gank, you need 4 or 5 HSII, and less of a tank.
Thoughts..?
yes. Sansha
Nightmare fixed Amarr - I know it sounds crazy, but yes - its a great ship since it does what Amarr ships are ment to. It can fit a rack of guns, do good damage, have tracking the same as another racec, have half fittig/cap for lasers due to 4 double turrets.
Plenty of mids gives it flexibility, 5 lows are real lows so 2-3 rcu's are not needed. They took what was wrong with Amarr and sorted it into Sansha. Bravo.
CCP, take the Nightmare, take off a high and a mid and call it a new abaddon - everyone will love you for it.
There any information from anyone having tried out the new nightmare in combat yet? PvE or PvP? I have to admit the changes they made to it seemed like a start.
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SkyCrane
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Posted - 2007.12.18 09:16:00 -
[885]
Edited by: SkyCrane on 18/12/2007 09:20:00
Originally by: BlackHorizon Edited by: BlackHorizon on 09/11/2007 07:16:25 Not signed. Amarr trade for superior tracking on long range weapons, no reloading time, extremely short ammo changing time, higher range on close range weapons (pulses) or higher dps on long range weapons (beams) for higher capacitor use and limited damage flexibility. It's a fair trade and it's balanced. Your setups are also intentionally rigged to justify your strained thesis.
I lol'd
It's been said a number of times, but how often do you fight at 30-50 km's range? And have you checked the obscene damagepotential on pulses fitted with radio? It's not subtle... The Rifter is probably more effective (wihout having actually checked that). Higher DPS on longrange weapong? THat's quite funny too.. Especially since you're gimped from stage 1 with beams due to excessive PG usage, not to mention tachyons. Try to fit a full rack of tachyons on an Abaddon, and at the same time have enough cap to do three volleys. ------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: Please feel free to ignore typoes... I suck at typing... :) |
Highkoo
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Posted - 2007.12.18 09:20:00 -
[886]
Seriously CCP stop making excuses and do something about this, the imbalances that Amarr specialized pilots must suffer is far to great to continue overlooking.
Thanks allot to the OP for taking the time to lay all this out.
H.K.
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Laila Eldgorn
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Posted - 2007.12.18 09:37:00 -
[887]
I demand every amarr pilot asking for amarr oomph goes and gets some kills outside wtfpwn blob combat with caldari turret ships before complaining that range doesn't make up the damage or they don't have capacitor. And don't come whining here after you get wtfbbqed by a geddon.
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Soratah
Amarr The Aegis Militia Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.12.18 11:35:00 -
[888]
One possibility would be to give them oomph in the other areas. One proposal ( a bit drastic)
Axe all pulse lasers and replace with plasma cannons (em/thermal with more balance towards thermal) focussing crystals, range equiv to blasters.
Beam lasers go EM damage only, crystals are replaced with targetting scripts (scripts focussed on areas of damage for guns, speed, repping, etc). EM damage is applied to modules on the opposing warship.
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SkyCrane
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Posted - 2007.12.18 12:34:00 -
[889]
Originally by: Dark Flare
You have to remember that the Dominix can't do instant-damage as well as the Geddon however, as most of it's dps is from the drones.
But yes, I agree the Domi is a bit strong.
So sentrydrones don't do instant-damage? ------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: Please feel free to ignore typoes... I suck at typing... :) |
Vrabac
Amarr BALKAN EXPRESS
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Posted - 2007.12.18 12:52:00 -
[890]
Originally by: SkyCrane
Originally by: Dark Flare
You have to remember that the Dominix can't do instant-damage as well as the Geddon however, as most of it's dps is from the drones.
But yes, I agree the Domi is a bit strong.
So sentrydrones don't do instant-damage?
7 mega pulses with 3 heatsinks >>>>> 5 sentry drones Damage of sentry drones isn't that stellar. Dominix really is far from ideal cornerstone ship in gang fights. Amarr battleships are very very good for gangs and pretty weak solo- not something that looks very wrong. I'd have a gankgeddon instead of any other than logistic domi next to me in a gang any time. Oh and apoc doesnt count, apoc is a mining barge.
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Jonny JoJo
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.18 12:54:00 -
[891]
Originally by: Vrabac
Originally by: SkyCrane
Originally by: Dark Flare
You have to remember that the Dominix can't do instant-damage as well as the Geddon however, as most of it's dps is from the drones.
But yes, I agree the Domi is a bit strong.
So sentrydrones don't do instant-damage?
7 mega pulses with 3 heatsinks >>>>> 5 sentry drones Damage of sentry drones isn't that stellar. Dominix really is far from ideal cornerstone ship in gang fights. Amarr battleships are very very good for gangs and pretty weak solo- not something that looks very wrong. I'd have a gankgeddon instead of any other than logistic domi next to me in a gang any time. Oh and apoc doesnt count, apoc is a mining barge.
Domi + Blasters + Drones > Geddon + Drones. Poor geddon will be out of cap after a minute, and lacks the tank mods since he put in 3 heatsinks thus left with wasted slots on fitting mods.
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Vrabac
Amarr BALKAN EXPRESS
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Posted - 2007.12.18 13:13:00 -
[892]
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Originally by: Vrabac
Originally by: SkyCrane
Originally by: Dark Flare
You have to remember that the Dominix can't do instant-damage as well as the Geddon however, as most of it's dps is from the drones.
But yes, I agree the Domi is a bit strong.
So sentrydrones don't do instant-damage?
7 mega pulses with 3 heatsinks >>>>> 5 sentry drones Damage of sentry drones isn't that stellar. Dominix really is far from ideal cornerstone ship in gang fights. Amarr battleships are very very good for gangs and pretty weak solo- not something that looks very wrong. I'd have a gankgeddon instead of any other than logistic domi next to me in a gang any time. Oh and apoc doesnt count, apoc is a mining barge.
Domi + Blasters + Drones > Geddon + Drones. Poor geddon will be out of cap after a minute, and lacks the tank mods since he put in 3 heatsinks thus left with wasted slots on fitting mods.
You dont get it. Blasters means no instant damage since it needs to mwd into optimal. We're talking about instant damage here. Sentry drones have low dps. And geddon will not be out of cap, that's what cap boosters are for. However I'm talking about GANGS not 1 vs 1. There is no doubt 1 vs 1 domi will win except if he's really really bad. However in a gang geddon > domi, except if domi is logistic but even than gang only needs so many logistic ships and as many as possible dmg dealers.
Oh, and heatsinks arent wasted slots. It's best mod you can fit into low slots. Appears to me you have fitting issues.
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Traeon
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.12.18 13:27:00 -
[893]
I always thought that adding EM/Explosive damage crystals would solve the EANM armor tank problem. Best way to do it in my opinion:
Multifrequency/X-Ray/Standard/Radio stay as they are.
Gamma/Ultraviolet/Microwave are changed to EM/Explosive damage. Add new T2 ammos which also deal EM/Explosive. |
bogir
War And Peace Construction
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Posted - 2007.12.18 13:38:00 -
[894]
Originally by: Traeon I always thought that adding EM/Explosive damage crystals would solve the EANM armor tank problem. Best way to do it in my opinion:
Multifrequency/X-Ray/Standard/Radio stay as they are.
Gamma/Ultraviolet/Microwave are changed to EM/Explosive damage. Add new T2 ammos which also deal EM/Explosive.
how do you get a laser to explod...... ????????
Ceo of WAPC WE can build it. |
Cursus
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Posted - 2007.12.18 13:41:00 -
[895]
Originally by: bogir how do you get a laser to explod...... ????????
By making the laser frequency induce an explosive chain reaction in the target material. Don't ask me what frequency that is for the standard ship shield/armor/hull material though.
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Angry Sheep
Amarr Aur0ra
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Posted - 2007.12.18 13:59:00 -
[896]
Quote: how do you get a laser to explod...... ????????
The same way you warp through planets, bump freighters out the way, bounce of stations, use no fuel in travel, move at a constant in space and generally ignore physics
It's a Dog eat Dog World out there and I'm wearing Milky Bone underwear
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Jonny JoJo
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.18 14:02:00 -
[897]
Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 18/12/2007 14:06:04
Originally by: Angry Sheep
Quote: how do you get a laser to explod...... ????????
The same way you warp through planets, bump freighters out the way, bounce of stations, use no fuel in travel, move at a constant in space and generally ignore physics
Also swim in space submarine style.
However, the infinite power souce of gravity does not exist in eve, so thats realistic... hmmmmmmm
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Jonny JoJo
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.18 14:09:00 -
[898]
Originally by: Traeon I always thought that adding EM/Explosive damage crystals would solve the EANM armor tank problem. Best way to do it in my opinion:
Multifrequency/X-Ray/Standard/Radio stay as they are.
Gamma/Ultraviolet/Microwave are changed to EM/Explosive damage. Add new T2 ammos which also deal EM/Explosive.
EANM was never a problem till CCP prenerfed Armour Compensation Skills.
Prior to Armour compensation skills, people used active harders. EANM's were laughed at. Then CCP added Armour Compensation skills so EANM's became better than Actives, and boom, EANM issue happened overnight as lasers were balanced with active hardning and not with Armour Compensation Skills
How to fix? Easy - UnNerf Armour Compensation skills to effect Active Hardners, or Remove Armour Compensation skills altogether.
Both these situations will get people to use Active hardners again.
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Jarod Hawke
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.12.18 14:44:00 -
[899]
Edited by: Jarod Hawke on 18/12/2007 14:44:44 I didn't feel like digging through 30+ threads but I'm sure the analysis of the raven is false since Torps have become useless since trinity because of their range. So pleas Add Caldari to your list of races to fix.
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Vrabac
Amarr BALKAN EXPRESS
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Posted - 2007.12.18 14:51:00 -
[900]
Originally by: Jarod Hawke Edited by: Jarod Hawke on 18/12/2007 14:44:44 I didn't feel like digging through 30+ threads but I'm sure the analysis of the raven is false since Torps have become useless since trinity because of their range. So pleas Add Caldari to your list of races to fix.
Is that your professional mission runner's oppinion?
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