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Sjoor
S.A.S Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.11.13 10:04:00 -
[91]
Good changes. Not only will we see more haulers and freighters movement, but less posses if this goes as planned.
Let's face it. Territorial warfare is mainly dictated by the simple, who can blob the most posses and maintain them, fight.
These changes give a slight advantage to the smaller alliances and corporations. The dedicated few posses they own have less chance of getting posspammed by some weird alliance saying I own half 0.0 and will posspam ya unless you move out and I can go back to the sov claiming unfitted small pos.
Maybe we will see some more racial posses in space as mining a few hours a month is good for a month fuel.
Of course this will blow ass for the empire iceminers, ice prices will drop if the number of posses will actually go down.
Just missing this one last change to posses, putting an cynofield jammer on the pos increases fuel use by 900%. Jumpbridge increases fuel use by 450%, Great changes, hope they make the game soon.
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Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.13 10:44:00 -
[92]
Allright, assuming this is a nerf that will reduce POS fuel - I doubt it, the Rorqual will be better than the Carrier was post patch - then could we assume that with fewer POS there will be a lesser need for Dreadnaughts and hence see more people going back to Battleships as Carriers cant fuel POS which means Dreads aren't needed to blow them up. If this happens it is a masterstroke, it partialy fixes POS warfare, but to be honest I would prefer a different way of claiming sov as opposed to POS spamming, maybe having small fortresses at Langrage points around a Starbase's planet or something.
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Liam Liam
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Posted - 2007.11.13 10:44:00 -
[93]
The whole problem is it's fine to require supply trains If
1. Theres a way to defend these trains 2. Inconvenience applies to attackers as well as defenders
1. Frieghters have no defence ...even if you have pvp ships with them theres no mechanism to force the attackers to destroy you before atacking the frieghter There needs to be a guard function where a ship put on guard is targetted instead of the frieghter and the frieghter cannot be targetted until it's guards are destroyed. "Could also reduce high sec ganking."
2. At the moment large fleets can move into and survive in enemy teritory without detection and without they're own supply train they can then attack whoever they wish. A certain level of inconvenience should apply to moving into enemy territory.
Space which has soveriegnty should have automatic detection of hostiles and automatic harrasment of hostiles. This could be effected by gateguns and Drone guard/ police patrols.
sov 1/ 2 guns on gate automatic alarm in system / constelation if hostiles appear. Guns slowly self repair if disabled / destroyed takes 2 hours or so but can be repped to repair faster.
sov 2/ 4 guns 2 webs on gate 4 frig sized drones spawn to protect gate. System alarm as above.
sov 3/ 8 guns 4 webs 2 scramblers small gang of police spawn to protect gate. non cloaked hostiles within 2au of gates show on overview pos's can scan cloaked hostiles with correct module but not decloak them
Sov 4-5/ Double response/ Guns of sov 3 as well as hostile locations show on overview regardless of distance pos's scan and decloak cloaked hostiles with correct module.
This would still allow jump capable ships to jump in and bypass gates but if you want to take a gang you have to fight your way in. Not just wait till an convenient time when theres low numbers on and move in undetected.In essence every gate with soveriegnty would have a small gatecamp.
This would at least make the soveriegnty worth having and worth going to the lengths that ccp seem to want people to go to maintain it. I would however if these were implimented make soveriegnty take longer to achieve. probably at least double the time required to achieve it at the moment but it would also take longer to lose it.
So that although it wouldn't be easily gained it wouldn't be easily lost either.
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Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.13 10:49:00 -
[94]
1) This could be having carriers escorting aswell and remote repping the ship constantly as it allighns, then overtaking the ship in warp to join up with a fleet on the gate and cynoing into the next system.
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caladron prime
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Posted - 2007.11.13 15:28:00 -
[95]
why is it that when people complain about getting their hauler ganked in high-sec, the 'big boys' say fly with escort and scout, but when their carriers MIGHT get nerfed so that they cannot be uber-haulers, they cry about........having to fly with escort and scouting?
A carrier IS NOT A HAULER A carrier IS NOT A FREIGHTER
This is/was an unintended use of the ship, IMO
Carrier people-deal with it.
not to mention, it hasn't even happened yet!
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.11.13 15:37:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Insidi Us Stop stirring **** up.
Exactly. There comes an alt and says that people are retreating to empire due to a carrier nerf. Sounds fishy, like if someone makes up a story, because his main got the nerf bat.
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Norwood Franskly
Minmatar Fleet of the Damned
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Posted - 2007.11.13 15:58:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Sjoor
Just missing this one last change to posses, putting an cynofield jammer on the pos increases fuel use by 900%. Jumpbridge increases fuel use by 450%, Great changes, hope they make the game soon.
How is that going to help the small alliances when it's the cyno jammers that are the only thing stopping them getting wiped out by the capital blob, I'm sorry but thats friggin riddiculous, cyno-jammer is your best defense against capship blobbing and you want to wipe that out, then it's just going to turn back into capital ships online, fine for the "old boys club" alliances that probably have more capital ships then some alliances have members but how the hell do you expect small alliances to survive, Sov 3 is the only real defense against the multiple cap blobs.
One thing everyone agree's on is that running freighters through 0.0 is suicide, pipes are so heavily camped its not funny, you can gurantee as soon as anyone sees multiple freighters being escorted cyno's are going to be dropped, not fun.
Yes it is going to hurt smaller alliances more then the big alliances, but hell we'll adapt thats life...
At least carriers will be able to transport battleships now, one less thing you need to worry about running the pipe guantlet in now...
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northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services
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Posted - 2007.11.13 16:01:00 -
[98]
Originally by: caladron prime why is it that when people complain about getting their hauler ganked in high-sec, the 'big boys' say fly with escort and scout, but when their carriers MIGHT get nerfed so that they cannot be uber-haulers, they cry about........having to fly with escort and scouting?
A carrier IS NOT A HAULER A carrier IS NOT A FREIGHTER
This is/was an unintended use of the ship, IMO
Carrier people-deal with it.
not to mention, it hasn't even happened yet!
Best comment over! I also like to add there not front line ship to! Well not ment to be anyhow! I sick of all this crying! Feels like WoW some times!
Corporation Website |
Asa Gunnarsson
Caldari ACCORD Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.13 16:06:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Turin Edited by: Turin on 13/11/2007 00:48:45 Now, if this is the mechanism they are using to try and shrink the territories of the mega alliances, eh. I just dont know. All I know is freighter escort missions for 60-70 jumps are about as fun as getting a prostate exam.
Hey, if the exam comes with a happy ending and the Doc is cute...
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Kayna Eelai
Gallente Shadow Legion Covenant Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2007.11.13 16:09:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Scythman Ok before you flame this, I have just been informed today of multiple corps removing there pos,s from deep 0.0 due to the upcoming carrier nerf, and the uncertainty of jump freighter skills and availability. Due to they dont want a pos that cant be fueled in a place they cant jump to. so CCP is this part of the plan to get people in to deep 0.0, yet another of many problems this nerf is going to cause.
0/10
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
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Duncan Bannatyne
BioDyne Industries
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Posted - 2007.11.13 16:19:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Bosie
Done my fair share of 0.0 freighter escorts, with enough guys and beer they can be fun. No one ever said that claiming space was going to be easy. I am also sure that there are ice fields out there in 0.0 that can supply the fuel you need. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
The thing is, most people (Apart from the ye olde carebear) dont want too pay for a game to grind. Hey, some people do but they most probably dont work. When i login at night i want to actually enjoy the game as i work all day, not sit there all night escorting a freighter like a second job.
These implications are what make people dislike the game.
Can you have my stuff? Well i've already got someone lined up to take it if this game starts to take the **** anymore :) Duncan Bannatyne
The Dragons Are Taking Over... |
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.13 16:22:00 -
[102]
1. Nearly nobody likes refuelling POS 2. Within an alliance each player only wants to spend X hours per week doing such boring duties. 3. With X hours of refuelling duties you can maintain Y pos.
Before the Carier Nerf: X = 2, Y = 6 After the Carrier Nerf: X = 2, Y = 1
This are just sample figures, point is, nothing is going to change fundamentally except that alliances are not able to maintain as many POS as before for the same amount of effort. Most alliances won't be able to increase the effort (since most find it boring) hence the number of POS maintained by one alliance will shrink.
Is this a bad thing? I don't think so. CCP thinks it is better for gameplay if a small alliance (counting in number of pilots) is not able to maintain a huge territory, unless they make large investements in material (jump freighters, jump portals) or run risky freighter operations. I think they are right.
I understand people are upset, since it wil change the current status quo.
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The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Setana Manoro
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.13 16:23:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Plave Okice Always look on the bright side of life.......
Hunting and terminating enemy freighter convoys will be fun.
Like hell, spies ftw. :)
Either way you look at it, CCP will have a lot of angry players. More ops of escorting freighters is not a good thing. Maybe from the overall view of the dev, but from the view of the player, it sucks to high heaven. The good thing is what you said, more freighters in 0.0 and hunting them down.
I am very glad that i said no to 0.0 alliance life 1 yr ago. :)
Failgeddon wrecks CCP for XXX annoyed customers ! |
Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium
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Posted - 2007.11.13 17:04:00 -
[104]
*I only read the 1st page of responses, so sorry if repeating stuff:
Maybe CCP want empires to be able to control less space to give more corps and alliances the chance to get their own piece of 0.0
Currently, to me it seems there are just a few large 0.0 alliances controlling most of space (aside from drone regions).
Khaldari khanidpublic : RP channel for supporters of the Kingdom PLDN Recruiting |
Alex Shurk
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Posted - 2007.11.13 17:05:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Spoon Thumb Maybe CCP want empires to be able to control less space to give more corps and alliances the chance to get their own piece of 0.0
and making controlling space harder will help this... how?
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Ares Lightfeather
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.13 17:16:00 -
[106]
If space is harder to control, they'll have to defend less space. Therefore letting more people try to get a piece of 0.0 space.
What it might do, actually, would be forcing people to fight for ice fields in 0.0 sec (literally, they would be like oasis in a desert), and reduce the lenght of supply lanes.
-- Siggie ! Come back here ! --
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job
Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract |
Doppleganger
Minmatar Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.11.13 17:30:00 -
[107]
I look at it more of a role back of sorts. Anyone like myself that ran multiple pos when they 1st came out knows it will still be easier after the expansion then it was back then.
Personally I think an expanded Dread or Rorqual will do about as good.
.
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Saint Shadow
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.11.13 17:44:00 -
[108]
It's genius.
Rather than expand space and -1.0 systems, they are going to make it harder for alliances to control more space than they should be able to with pos spammage. People with have to fight with ships instead of the anchor skill. They are actually going to need an industrial base that provides material rather than all of it getting shipped back to empire to sell. New members to alliances will actually have to have their stuff escorted out to 0.0 rather than placing it in a nice safe 0.4 and having it jumped out. Not sure if jump freighters are going to be able to be scrammed, but hopefully that is the case and they will have to be escorted as well. But overall, I am just happy to see that the Big(serious business here) alliances are actually going to have to work for such huge swaths of space they claim. This is going to be so awesome. So very, very awesome.
In concept. 3 months is a long time for the wet crevices among us to whine until CCP gives in. I hope that isn't the case, but I've been disappointed before.
And no this is not an alt. I usually just don't see anything worth commenting on in the forums. However, this is a great change. LOL at 500 people holding 50+ systems.
Thank you CCP, for now. __________________ 0.0 bound... |
Downtym
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Posted - 2007.11.13 17:49:00 -
[109]
I would suggest that the adaptation needed is the one that people will balk at the most:
A form of governance in 0.0 space. The Republic of Goon, perhaps? Or maybe the People's Democratic Federation of BoB? Or the Northern Confederation?
Of course, the problem with any system of governance is that you have to do things like create governing bodies, create laws, handle taxes, and enforce the peace. The first group to suggest a region wide Constitution and establish true sovereignty wins, I suppose.
Good luck with that.
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Aille Pluthrak
Caldari Racketeers
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Posted - 2007.11.13 18:06:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Asa Gunnarsson
Originally by: Turin Edited by: Turin on 13/11/2007 00:48:45 Now, if this is the mechanism they are using to try and shrink the territories of the mega alliances, eh. I just dont know. All I know is freighter escort missions for 60-70 jumps are about as fun as getting a prostate exam.
Hey, if the exam comes with a happy ending and the Doc is cute...
And a Doc with small fingers helps too.
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Italian Wedding
Soup Of The Day
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Posted - 2007.11.13 18:22:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Turin Edited by: Turin on 13/11/2007 01:16:01
Originally by: Bosie OMG no more instant logistics using 1 player with an army of alts, now if you wish to have POS' and claim space you need an army of players to run it!!!1111
May you be the FC on thousands of 500 jump freighter runs.
Your sig is so original to. Cause I might point out. the devs GOT all the feedback they could have possibly wanted and more on the matter at hand, and then just ignored it all. But you fergot to add that part to your sig.
I could only read your posts to this point before I had this strange feeling of wanting to slap you over the head with a baseball bat. Please, shut up. You're embarrassing and you don't actually know anything of what you're talking about.
And ohemgee your post was made today even with all the other info that has been given. For the love of god stop talking, forever.
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Grishnarg
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Posted - 2007.11.13 18:31:00 -
[112]
Oohhh.... you poor things...! Can't you do a job for several ppl alone anymore. Oh dear, how are the babies gonna make it. Well I guess they have to make another whineypost about carriers. BU-HU... |
Xaen
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.13 18:39:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 13/11/2007 01:12:38 My Eve playing time... log in, join gang, go to gate in home system, camp, move gates, camp, blow up stuff, camp, say GF cya all later, logoff
You all whine too much
Ahh, I hadn't realized your way of playing was the only way to play. Thank you for pointing that out! -- Support fixing the EVE UI | Suggest Jita fixes
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Xaen
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.13 18:43:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Liam Liam 1. Frieghters have no defence ...even if you have pvp ships with them theres no mechanism to force the attackers to destroy you before atacking the frieghter There needs to be a guard function where a ship put on guard is targetted instead of the frieghter and the frieghter cannot be targetted until it's guards are destroyed. "Could also reduce high sec ganking."
Who says anyone has to be destroyed for it to be a success? Fit tons of EWAR. Hostiles can't get your freighter if they can't target it. The goal of the escort is to get the freighter through, not blow up ships, isn't it? -- Support fixing the EVE UI | Suggest Jita fixes
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Bosie
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.11.13 22:07:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Liam Liam
1. Frieghters have no defence ...even if you have pvp ships with them theres no mechanism to force the attackers to destroy you before atacking the frieghter There needs to be a guard function where a ship put on guard is targetted instead of the frieghter and the frieghter cannot be targetted until it's guards are destroyed. "Could also reduce high sec ganking."
So it's true that you can't remote rep a freighter? Oh, did I just figure out a way to protect a freighter.
Please, you want to claim space then you are going to have to work for it. Not interested in working to claim and hold space, then don't.
The sky is not falling, it's just the Devs telling you that you now need to make more of an effort to maintain your space.
"There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is ENGLAND |
Jennai
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.11.13 22:13:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Bosie The sky is not falling, it's just the Devs telling you that you now need to make more of an effort to maintain your space.
there wouldn't be nearly as much complaining if the effort required to hold space was at least mildly entertaining instead of the most godawful boring crap in the game
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Bosie
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.11.13 22:19:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Jennai there wouldn't be nearly as much complaining if the effort required to hold space was at least mildly entertaining instead of the most godawful boring crap in the game
The following post contains a clue:
Don't do POS if you don't enjoy it unless of course you want to claim space then accept that this is the price you must pay to control space.
Do you think I enjoy having to rely on other players and or an alt to bring me ships, mods and ammo at sensible prices? No I don't but I accept that it's part of being an outlaw. I also accept that if I can't tank sentries that I have to either run or watch my corp mates die at gates to none outlaws.
"There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is ENGLAND |
Elmicker
Black Sea Industries Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.11.13 22:22:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Bosie So it's true that you can't remote rep a freighter?
Pretty much, yeah. Any fleet worth its salt will wipe it out in seconds. It's only got base resists, so the reps are woefully underpowered on it.
Quote: The sky is not falling, it's just the Devs telling you that you now need to make more of an effort to maintain your space.
Yes, you are correct. However, that "more of an effort" means jump freighters, dreadnoughts, rorquals and large freighter escort ops. None of these are readily available to the small-medium corps/alliances who live independently of the large alliances. They do not have the numbers for escort ops and lack the pilots and infrastructure to use the other methods. It forces smaller entities out of 0.0 - this is a VERY bad thing. More smaller entities means fewer ridiculous blobs roaming around 0.0. Fewer blobs = ♥.
Aside from that fact, even in the large alliances, it will force individuals and corps to rely on alliance-level logistics. So you need a replacement fit? Well, ****, sorry, you're going to have to wait for the next 50-jump freighter op to get it.
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Malvahne
Sativah Holandica
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Posted - 2007.11.13 23:05:00 -
[119]
good changes, claiming 0.0 started to become way to easy.
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Ky Vatta
Caldari Empire Mining and Industrial Taskforce
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Posted - 2007.11.13 23:11:00 -
[120]
Has anyone thought of the effect less POS`es will have on Moon-mining, and the components derived from moon-products?
The new ships in the next patch will require so many components more, so more Moon-mining will be needed....
Nerf PoS`es, and cause super-inflation of components, which derive from Moon-mining, thus severely limiting production of the new T2 ships....
Say thank you to CCP, for not thinking their nerfs thoroughly through...
Then again, that`s normal, it appears... ---
Self-confessed Carebear, and proud of it |
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