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HarryManback
Minmatar Gr0und Zer0
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Posted - 2007.11.15 17:59:00 -
[1]
As many of you know I have already started a post (here) earlier that vaguely gave some suggestions towards some possible improvements to make the Marauders actually worth 1 bil isk but this one will just focus on the Vargur. The Vargurs Powergrid is much to low for this ship to be effective in any way as I have shown below it does not even fit without at least 2 powergrid mods. Also it needs to use up one mid slot for ECCM and have one less rig due to its T2ness. Making its Tank and Damage much lower then that of it's t1 counterparts.
These ship do not have enough power, even with perfect fitting skills, to fit all their standard required modules.
(all the following fits are with all fitting skills maxed AWU V, WU V, Elec. V, Engin. V)
Vargur has 7900mw of power that makes 9875mw with perfect skills.
4x 800mm Autocannons II = 7920mw 1x XL Shield Booster II = 550mw 1x Quad Lif Fueled Booster Rockets = 1250mw 1x Large Electrochemic Cap Booster = 1750mw
Total = 11470mw
So as you can see it already doesn't fit. Let's add an RCU II (we wasted our time training this skill to fly the damn things lets at least waste a low slot with style)
9875mw * 1.15 = 11356mw
ouch just under. So i thought to myself maybe I could drop the MWD or I could fit a PDU II. Either way I'm crippling this ship pretty severely.
The point I'm trying to make is that this ship will be outperformed but any of the t1 BSes because it just can't fit all the required module without wasting a low sot or 2 to fit them. Oh oh there goes another Gyro II.
This ship will quite literally have a weaker tank and a lesser damage output then a Maelstrom that costs a tenth the price. like WTF!!??!!?!?
Oh but wait that can't be true it has a resist bonus. Well you see Johny the Maelstrom has an extra rig, an extra mid slot and 2 extra low slots for tanking and damaging. Those 25% and 12.5% bonus to EM and Thermal respectively don't seem so big now do they little skipper.
Don't you see my these ships are as expensive as carriers and yet the only role i seem to be able to fit them in is maybe a small scale mining guard.
Even if you don't decide to see it my way and buff this desperate ship at least I can win can pulling races. Amarr Recon/Electronics Attack Ship/almost Black Ops pilot for auction |
madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.11.15 18:06:00 -
[2]
Why do you need a mwd or capbooster to npc? Why do you need to fit the biggest guns in order to pvp? _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Amy Wang
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Posted - 2007.11.15 18:07:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Amy Wang on 15/11/2007 18:07:19 Its evident that even with autocannons the powergrid is a joke. Moreover why should the Vargur be the only Marauder that cant fit a rack of long range guns?
The powergrid needs to be boosted considerably, there can be no doubt about it.
Originally by: madaluap Why do you need a mwd or capbooster to npc? Why do you need to fit the biggest guns in order to pvp?
Because the other Marauders can do it?
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madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.11.15 18:10:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Amy Wang Edited by: Amy Wang on 15/11/2007 18:07:19 Its evident that even with autocannons the powergrid is a joke. Moreover why should the Vargur be the only Marauder that cant fit a rack of long range guns?
The powergrid needs to be boosted considerably, there can be no doubt about it.
Originally by: madaluap Why do you need a mwd or capbooster to npc? Why do you need to fit the biggest guns in order to pvp?
Because the other Marauders can do it?
Including dual large armor rep? Cause if thats the case, yes boost this ship. If not, whatever. _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
HarryManback
Minmatar Gr0und Zer0
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Posted - 2007.11.15 18:12:00 -
[5]
lol he just wants to fit in m8. no need to single him out. But ya Heave Cap Booster is bread and butter for this ship. That was the whole purpose of its uber huge cargo hold. As for the MWD, it is questionable. You should fit it for certain occasions but just use that slot to tank for others. But you should definitely have some flexibility over it.
Oh it could also play the role as a hauler. It'll be just like the freighter. They both cost a bil, neither of them can fit modules but the Vargur looks pretty . Oh wait no I was thinking of Jessica Alba. Ya the tempest hull is still ****. Amarr Recon/Electronics Attack Ship/almost Black Ops pilot for auction |
madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.11.15 18:18:00 -
[6]
Edited by: madaluap on 15/11/2007 18:19:29
Originally by: HarryManback lol he just wants to fit in m8. no need to single him out. But ya Heave Cap Booster is bread and butter for this ship. That was the whole purpose of its uber huge cargo hold. As for the MWD, it is questionable. You should fit it for certain occasions but just use that slot to tank for others. But you should definitely have some flexibility over it.
Oh it could also play the role as a hauler. It'll be just like the freighter. They both cost a bil, neither of them can fit modules but the Vargur looks pretty . Oh wait no I was thinking of Jessica Alba. Ya the tempest hull is still ****.
The point of the uber cargohold was holding loot, serieusly...You missed the tractor beam bonus? If you dont like the tempest hull, gtfo. Its awesome, you aint minmatar if you dont like ductape. _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.15 18:21:00 -
[7]
Originally by: madaluap Why do you need a mwd or capbooster to npc? Why do you need to fit the biggest guns in order to pvp?
let's take this and see it from another prism:
mwd or capbooster indeed might be too much for the ship. AB and CRII's seem enough, altho the ship would be significantly slower, even to npc. HOWEVER, factoring the same role and the pronounced will of CCP to make marauders more self-sustained ships for npc'ing about, it contradicts what they want to do with the Vargur. Why?
Simple: AC's use heaps of ammo, and the lower the tier, the more ammo you need. You don't have enough grid to slap even the highest tier of AC's, wich are more ammo friendly than either the mid-tier D650's or the supreme ammo hogs that are the battleship-sized uzi guns that are the D425's, wich apparently are the only guns this ship can fit. And I won't talk about the 1200 and 1400 arties here, since it's impossible to fit any of them, unless you cram all the lows somehow. Even considering that it's only 4 turrets, and the ship's large cargo bay, you can see that the Vargur escapes the "less ammo used" approach that the other 3 marauders do so nicely. So in sum, the ship's fitting stats go in contradiction of the supposed role of "ship that requires less trips to nearest dock". ---
planetary interaction idea! |
madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.11.15 18:28:00 -
[8]
Edited by: madaluap on 15/11/2007 18:29:23
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: madaluap Why do you need a mwd or capbooster to npc? Why do you need to fit the biggest guns in order to pvp?
let's take this and see it from another prism:
mwd or capbooster indeed might be too much for the ship. AB and CRII's seem enough, altho the ship would be significantly slower, even to npc. HOWEVER, factoring the same role and the pronounced will of CCP to make marauders more self-sustained ships for npc'ing about, it contradicts what they want to do with the Vargur. Why?
Simple: AC's use heaps of ammo, and the lower the tier, the more ammo you need. You don't have enough grid to slap even the highest tier of AC's, wich are more ammo friendly than either the mid-tier D650's or the supreme ammo hogs that are the battleship-sized uzi guns that are the D425's, wich apparently are the only guns this ship can fit. And I won't talk about the 1200 and 1400 arties here, since it's impossible to fit any of them, unless you cram all the lows somehow. Even considering that it's only 4 turrets, and the ship's large cargo bay, you can see that the Vargur escapes the "less ammo used" approach that the other 3 marauders do so nicely. So in sum, the ship's fitting stats go in contradiction of the supposed role of "ship that requires less trips to nearest dock".
A more reasonable post.
I see your point on high ammo usage, allthough the RATATATA effect is what i like about AC.
In npcing this will be less valuable yes. Allthough i still believe you could just fit 800mm + ab + caprechargers + tank and for pvp 425mm + mwd + injector + tank.
The dps difference between the lower tier and higher tier ac is marginal and usually useless if you take the better tracking off the lower tier AC into account.
Still, if all other marauder can fit a decent sniping setup, this ship should be capable of doing this aswell. With decent i dont mean just fit the 4 largest tier weapons and thats it. Im talking about a entire snipe setup and have no CPU or PG problems. _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
000Hunter000
Gallente Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.11.15 18:42:00 -
[9]
Talking about marauders, even though i'm not sure about getting me one and in that respect ever flying one, i'm wondering if the golem gets some form of torp/CM hardning bonus (aka making it harder for defender missiles to be used against torps/CM)
Why u ask? well it only has 4 missile slots, granted it gets a huge damage boni, but if the torps/cm's get shot down by defenders just as easily as they do now, it might become a little too easy to negate a golems nice offensive power CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
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Kelbesque Crystalis
Minmatar Eve University
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Posted - 2007.11.15 18:50:00 -
[10]
The Dev argument is that a) too much grid means you could throw up 4 d450's and 3 heavy nuets and b) you can cram in 1200mms if you put PDU's in the lows.
Why would I scrap my tacking/dmg mods for (many) PDU's when I don't need them now in my maelstrom?
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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2007.11.15 19:44:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kelbesque Crystalis The Dev argument is that a) too much grid means you could throw up 4 d450's and 3 heavy nuets and b) you can cram in 1200mms if you put PDU's in the lows.
What would be wrong with fitting 1200s or even 1400s? The other marauders can fit short or long range guns and just because the Vargur has a falloff bonus which is better for AC that doesnt justify limiting its fitting options in a massively unfair way compared to the others, it is just wrong.
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Kelbesque Crystalis
Minmatar Eve University
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Posted - 2007.11.15 19:48:00 -
[12]
The argument was that you CAN fit 1200mm's. Except you have to sac most of your lows to do so.
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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2007.11.15 20:08:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kelbesque Crystalis The argument was that you CAN fit 1200mm's. Except you have to sac most of your lows to do so.
Yea and the others can fit even bigger tier guns without using so many lows for powergrid mods, I really dont see how that is balanced.
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HarryManback
Minmatar Gr0und Zer0
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Posted - 2007.11.15 20:41:00 -
[14]
guys i still insist the need of a cap booster that is what the huge cargo hold is for and all the other Marauders can do it now why cant we so I'm gonna make this into a petition so everyone sign if you agree on the power grid bonus. Amarr Recon/Electronics Attack Ship/almost Black Ops pilot for auction |
HarryManback
Minmatar Gr0und Zer0
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Posted - 2007.11.15 20:55:00 -
[15]
I edited my first post to show how much I thought a reasonable amount of power this ship should have. Amarr Recon/Electronics Attack Ship/almost Black Ops pilot for auction |
Kelbesque Crystalis
Minmatar Eve University
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Posted - 2007.11.15 22:01:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Kelbesque Crystalis on 15/11/2007 22:04:53 I fully agree that this ship needs more grid, and should be able to fit 1200mm's, XLSB, AB, and cap injector at the same time. I don't really buy the heavy neut argument either.
3x Heavy NeutsII + 4x d450mmII's (least grid usage AC's) require 11700 grid (or 9360 before engineering V). Thats with no tank. Even this requires 18% grid increase via RCU/PDU/etc.
Note that the Kronos can ALREADY do this with a single PDU with Neutron II's (which eat the most grid of the blasters), and without a fitting mod do the same with Ion II's. With the same fitting mods that the Vargur needs to use its weakest AC's + heavy neuts, the Kornos can fit a double LARII tank.
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Lars Lodar
Caldari Astrodynamic Innovations
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Posted - 2007.11.15 22:58:00 -
[17]
And while we are at it, could we please get more grip and cpu on the Nighthawk please?
Good luck fitting a gang mod without using 2 RCUs or Grid Rigs.
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bldyannoyed
Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2007.11.15 23:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Lars Lodar And while we are at it, could we please get more grip and cpu on the Nighthawk please?
Good luck fitting a gang mod without using 2 RCUs or Grid Rigs.
Yay for trolls.
But on topic, i flew a Kronos on sisi.
I fitted 4x Neutron II and an 3x offlined heavy nos ( reputedly best for heat dispersion but tbh i have no idea )
100MN MWDII, Heavy Injector II, WebII, Warp Disrupter II
2x LAR II, DCUII, 2x EANMII, 2x MFSII
Explosive Rig and ACR
Its basically the ultimate close range fit. ( Effectively ) 8 of its biggest close range guns, which is a particualr boost to blasters cos the damage is noticeably better and the range, particualarly falloff, significantly longer, tech 2 tackle and speed kit, 2 ship bonused large reps, 2 damage mods, and still manages impressive resists due to its inherent resists bonus and the explosive rig buffing up what would otherwise be the weak pionts on an omni tank.
All that for the sacrifice of a single rig slot.
If a Vargur, or indeed any of the Marauders, cant do something similar something needs to change.
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madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.11.15 23:37:00 -
[19]
Edited by: madaluap on 15/11/2007 23:44:37
Originally by: Kelbesque Crystalis Edited by: Kelbesque Crystalis on 15/11/2007 22:04:53 I fully agree that this ship needs more grid, and should be able to fit 1200mm's, XLSB, AB, and cap injector at the same time. I don't really buy the heavy neut argument either.
3x Heavy NeutsII + 4x d450mmII's (least grid usage AC's) require 11700 grid (or 9360 before engineering V). Thats with no tank. Even this requires 18% grid increase via RCU/PDU/etc.
Note that the Kronos can ALREADY do this with a single PDU with Neutron II's (which eat the most grid of the blasters), and without a fitting mod do the same with Ion II's. With the same fitting mods that the Vargur needs to use its weakest AC's + heavy neuts, the Kornos can fit a double LARII tank.
First of all you are really using the wrong neuts (T2):
- More expensive than best named (for large and small) - Without skills, a best named destroys 600 cap versus 500 taken. T2 is 600 cap destroyed versus 600 taken - They require more PG to fit - They require lvl 5 energy emmision (not the first skill i would train to 5)
So lets swap to unstable heavy neutralizers. I have AWU 5, which is not weird to assume other marauder pilots have this aswell. A lot of the lvl 5 bs pilots are infact dread pilots or have AWU 5 for the sake of it.
4950 PG usage for 4* Dual 425mm AC II cannons 6000 for 3 Heavy unstable neuts.
total off 10950 PG used
9875 PG this ship has. Its a shieldtanker, so sacrifice 1 low for a RCU II, it doesnt hurt the tank/gank as much as it would hurt a armortanker imo.
With RCU II, its: 9875*1.15= 11356mw - 10950 = 406 PG left
This means that fitting 1 PG rig and 1 RCU II, gives this ship the possibility to use Xlarge booster + amp = dual large armor tank.
After fitting that T2 xlarge booster it has 992 PG left.
The guns use no cap and reach further than those of the kornos. This ship also has far better tankability than kornos, cause it doesnt need to split its lows between tank/gank and PG modules.
Offcouse only a fool would fit 3* heavy neut, cause just dropping 1 heavy neut means you can use the entire ship far better. _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Last Wolf
Templars of Space
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Posted - 2007.11.15 23:47:00 -
[20]
What they really need to do, is either raise the PG requirement for AC, or lower it for artillery. The PG differance between the two is HUGE. Its impossible to give a mini ship enough PG to fit a full rack of 1400 II's and not make fitting AC absolutely trivial(See Maelstrom)
Its impossible to balance a mini ship due to this, it either has barely enough PG to fit AC, and makes it Impossible to fit artillery (read Vargur), or enough PG to fit artillaries and it becomes way to easy to fit AC + MWD + cap injector + tank + nos + almost anything else you have CPU for
Anyways, thats my two isk.
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fkingfurious
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Posted - 2007.11.15 23:52:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Last Wolf What they really need to do, is either raise the PG requirement for AC, or lower it for artillery. The PG differance between the two is HUGE. Its impossible to give a mini ship enough PG to fit a full rack of 1400 II's and not make fitting AC absolutely trivial(See Maelstrom)
Its impossible to balance a mini ship due to this, it either has barely enough PG to fit AC, and makes it Impossible to fit artillery (read Vargur), or enough PG to fit artillaries and it becomes way to easy to fit AC + MWD + cap injector + tank + nos + almost anything else you have CPU for
Anyways, thats my two isk.
Man Speaketh The Truth
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Kelbesque Crystalis
Minmatar Eve University
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Posted - 2007.11.15 23:54:00 -
[22]
My apologies. I admit that I don't know squat about neuts.
I was merely pointing out that the Kronos has more than enough grid to do the same thing they are worried about the Vargur doing. Even if the Kronos has less range in that setup, it still has enough grid to support rails while the Vargur doesn't have the grid to field arties without undue fitting mods.
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madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.11.16 00:32:00 -
[23]
Edited by: madaluap on 16/11/2007 00:33:44
Originally by: Kelbesque Crystalis My apologies. I admit that I don't know squat about neuts.
I was merely pointing out that the Kronos has more than enough grid to do the same thing they are worried about the Vargur doing. Even if the Kronos has less range in that setup, it still has enough grid to support rails while the Vargur doesn't have the grid to field arties without undue fitting mods.
Its the curse/blessing of minmatar. Serieusly, i tried a speedfit minmatar cruiser setup and no way i could even get a rack (=4) 650mm II howi on it + a decent setup.
Than i fitted 220mm II and could use the extra highslots (2) for heavy launchers. Med for T2 mwd and a large shieldextender and still had reasonable PG left.
Its even more extreme on the maelstrom/Sleipnir, biggest guns and still +30-40% PG left anyone?
Try tempest and you can fit decent rack of AC + PG heavy neuts/nos, mwd, heavy injector and 2 large armor reps.
Try the same with just 6* 1400mm II howi and you need a RCU II.
How to solve the issue with the marauder, maybe make nos/neuts require utility highslots so you cannot put 3* nos/neuts in those last slots... _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
bldyannoyed
Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2007.11.16 01:40:00 -
[24]
Having thought about it some more I'm not sure i see why the Vargur needs to fit artillery .
YES it does need a grid boost, enough that it can accomodate large tier AC's without having to nuke its lows with grid mods. It's a mistake to think that it should have enough grid to fit anything meaningfull in those last highs.
Think about it.
4 turrets already = 8 turrets, you fit 3 heavy anything in those last 3 slots and you've got a ship with 11 high slots. And if it then has any meaningfull tank it is hellishly overpowered.
The Kronos ( which is the only other marauder i have taken a serious interest in ) can easily fit its " Eight" turrets and a powerfull tank, with the use of a single ACR. What it cannot do is get anything of consequence in its last 3 high slots.
It can fit Railguns and still get a decent tank on, 2 LAR II's and some cap mods to run them, which from a PvE perspective is vital, as blasters are junk for missions.
While it could theoretically fit for sniping, 4 425II's and whatnot, you have to ask what possible advantage it would give you over any tech1 BS, and the same argument applies to the Vargur. There is very little about a Vargur that would be better than a Maelstrom or Pest when sniper fleet fitted.
And what makes the Vargur and Kronos different is that the Vargur DOES NOT NEED to fit artillery for PvE.
With max skills and 2 Falloff rigs an 800II with Barrage will have 8.5KM optimal and almost SIXTY KILOMETRE falloff, pretty much making fitting artillery for PvE an excercise in futility. And has been stated, giving it even close to sufficient grid for meaningfull artillery setups would leave it with enough PG to fit AC's and heavy nos or neuts, totally unbalancing it.
So while it may need a little more grid for it's AC setups to work, giving this thing enough grid to run artillery would make it the single most unbalanced ship in the universe, and anyone with half a mind STILL wouldnt fit artillery anyway, cos there would be absolutely no point.
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Yukisa
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Posted - 2007.11.16 01:52:00 -
[25]
Designing one ship to use one type of gun is silly, when the other 3 marauders can wield short and long range weapons fine.
The argument against extra grid because it may fit lower tier AC and neuts don't float.
All marauders already have a huge weakness, their low sensor AND crap insurance payout for a ship that will cost 700-800M. Who is really going to be using these in PvP on a regular basis for it to really matter??
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HarryManback
Minmatar Gr0und Zer0
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Posted - 2007.11.16 02:59:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Last Wolf What they really need to do, is either raise the PG requirement for AC, or lower it for artillery. The PG differance between the two is HUGE. Its impossible to give a mini ship enough PG to fit a full rack of 1400 II's and not make fitting AC absolutely trivial(See Maelstrom)
Its impossible to balance a mini ship due to this, it either has barely enough PG to fit AC, and makes it Impossible to fit artillery (read Vargur), or enough PG to fit artillaries and it becomes way to easy to fit AC + MWD + cap injector + tank + nos + almost anything else you have CPU for
Anyways, thats my two isk.
He be right. When I AC the ship the end up with more power left than the Vargur has in total Amarr Recon/Electronics Attack Ship/almost Black Ops pilot for auction |
HarryManback
Minmatar Gr0und Zer0
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Posted - 2007.11.16 03:01:00 -
[27]
Originally by: bldyannoyed Having thought about it some more I'm not sure i see why the Vargur needs to fit artillery .
YES it does need a grid boost, enough that it can accomodate large tier AC's without having to nuke its lows with grid mods. It's a mistake to think that it should have enough grid to fit anything meaningfull in those last highs.
Think about it.
4 turrets already = 8 turrets, you fit 3 heavy anything in those last 3 slots and you've got a ship with 11 high slots. And if it then has any meaningfull tank it is hellishly overpowered.
The Kronos ( which is the only other marauder i have taken a serious interest in ) can easily fit its " Eight" turrets and a powerfull tank, with the use of a single ACR. What it cannot do is get anything of consequence in its last 3 high slots.
It can fit Railguns and still get a decent tank on, 2 LAR II's and some cap mods to run them, which from a PvE perspective is vital, as blasters are junk for missions.
While it could theoretically fit for sniping, 4 425II's and whatnot, you have to ask what possible advantage it would give you over any tech1 BS, and the same argument applies to the Vargur. There is very little about a Vargur that would be better than a Maelstrom or Pest when sniper fleet fitted.
And what makes the Vargur and Kronos different is that the Vargur DOES NOT NEED to fit artillery for PvE.
With max skills and 2 Falloff rigs an 800II with Barrage will have 8.5KM optimal and almost SIXTY KILOMETRE falloff, pretty much making fitting artillery for PvE an excercise in futility. And has been stated, giving it even close to sufficient grid for meaningfull artillery setups would leave it with enough PG to fit AC's and heavy nos or neuts, totally unbalancing it.
So while it may need a little more grid for it's AC setups to work, giving this thing enough grid to run artillery would make it the single most unbalanced ship in the universe, and anyone with half a mind STILL wouldnt fit artillery anyway, cos there would be absolutely no point.
Because the other ships can do it. Amarr Recon/Electronics Attack Ship/almost Black Ops pilot for auction |
HarryManback
Minmatar Gr0und Zer0
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Posted - 2007.11.16 03:03:00 -
[28]
Well in fact I think the Vargur would be a great artillery ship due to its damage bonus and its falloff bonus.
But without something like 9500/10000mw you CANT even fit the bare minimum. Amarr Recon/Electronics Attack Ship/almost Black Ops pilot for auction |
Kelbesque Crystalis
Minmatar Eve University
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Posted - 2007.11.16 04:47:00 -
[29]
Originally by: bldyannoyed
And what makes the Vargur and Kronos different is that the Vargur DOES NOT NEED to fit artillery for PvE.
With max skills and 2 Falloff rigs an 800II with Barrage will have 8.5KM optimal and almost SIXTY KILOMETRE falloff, pretty much making fitting artillery for PvE an excercise in futility. And has been stated, giving it even close to sufficient grid for meaningfull artillery setups would leave it with enough PG to fit AC's and heavy nos or neuts, totally unbalancing it.
So while it may need a little more grid for it's AC setups to work, giving this thing enough grid to run artillery would make it the single most unbalanced ship in the universe, and anyone with half a mind STILL wouldnt fit artillery anyway, cos there would be absolutely no point.
Even with that obscene falloff, 1200mm with T1 ammo will still out damage 800mm AC's with barrage against angels (the only faction really worth using barrage against) above 45km. Using barrage against other factions is laughable, and using not falloff bonused ammo above 20-25km is as well. So you are good as long as you warp in on top of angels. Never mind other factions or missions where you start out 75km+ away from the closest NPC.
With a Maelstrom, you can change your guns between missions to suit range AND damage type. Some missions are not conducive to long range, and some are not conducive to short range.
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ArmyOfMe
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.11.16 10:08:00 -
[30]
the simple fix would be to drop the pg req for all artys, wich is were the problem is imo
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