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m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
63
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Posted - 2012.02.07 13:18:00 -
[61] - Quote
The extra missile/turret hardpoint would be utterly useless... No one would use the thing. Besides the web and tp bonuses, I really don't want to see any other ewar bonuses on marauders. Imo, it's kind of unfair that the vindi even has a web bonus. Vindi needs a damn nerf tbh. And I fly one XD Vindi needs a nerf and Kronos needs it's explosive hole fixed. In a bit, I think I'll go through and list off some more specific changes I think should be done to each marauder. Kinda padding BF3 atm to get assignment unlocks -_- |
m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
63
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 16:27:00 -
[62] - Quote
Kronos * Increase Sensor Strength to 27 or 28 points. * Increase Scan Resolution to 90-95 mm at the least. * Increase Armor Explosive resistance to 30% * Increase Drone Bandwidth to 125 and Drone Bay to 150m3 Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level changed to Marauder Skill Bonus Marauder Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to large hybrid weapon tracking per level changed to Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus
Paladin * Increase Sensor Strength to 25 points. * Increase Scan Resolution to 95-100 mm at the least. * Increase Power Grid by 1,000. Not sure what the base would be, but after skills and all, the thing needs 1k more pg. Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level changed to Marauder Skill Bonus Marauder Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to large energy turret damage per level changed to Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus
Vargur * Increase Sensor Strength to 20 or 21 points. * Increase Scan Resolution to 95-100 mm at the least. * Increase Power Grid by 2,500. Again, not sure of the base.
Golem * Increase Sensor Strength to 25 or 26 points. * Increase Scan Resolution to 95-100 mm at the least. Needs a ROF bonus for cruise launchers only, if possible.
All Marauders Role Bonus: 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams changed to 150% bonus. Role Bonus: 20% bonus to Salvager cycle time needs added. |
Amaroq Dricaldari
68
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Posted - 2012.02.08 01:49:00 -
[63] - Quote
What just happened?
Did someone merge this thread with another one? This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
63
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Posted - 2012.02.08 03:45:00 -
[64] - Quote
No? |
Amaroq Dricaldari
69
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 06:42:00 -
[65] - Quote
I asked that because I thought I saw your post in another 'Buff Marauders' thread.
Let's try to get back on topic, shall we? This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
Spugg Galdon
Mak Mining Corp
76
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 07:29:00 -
[66] - Quote
I'm not sure if those suggestions are enough. I do believe that the salvaging bonus should just be dropped all together in favour of something else completely |
m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
63
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 15:24:00 -
[67] - Quote
It's because I made a buff marauders thread before this one, but it didn't get many replies while this one has, go figure, lol.
The marauders need to keep their salvaging bonuses. That's part of the advantage of them. And LOTS of people do use them to salvage on the go and pick and choose through loot. As for the buffs I listed, they're enough. Go look at the ships and try to imagine those changes made to them and you'll see. No HP buffs because their resists will help compensate. The Kronos is the only one with a real hole in its tank. The resists aren't as high as frigs/cruisers (t2's), but the BS's have much more HP than they do and more slots to fit resists, so it's not as important. The changes I listed aren't game breaking, but they would be huge improvements to Marauders. |
Hans Momaki
State War Academy Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 18:46:00 -
[68] - Quote
Sorry, but your suggestion is not enough for the Golem, unless CCP makes torps viable again.
I would still suggest a dmg application / dmg range bonus on all marauders. |
Spugg Galdon
Mak Mining Corp
76
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 19:00:00 -
[69] - Quote
The changes you have suggested aren't game breaking but I feel that they aren't really enough.
A lot of people in this thread have mentioned that Marauders simply don't have enough damage to compete with other options like pirate faction battleships. So in order to buff the damage on Marauders how about something like:
Increasing the 100% damage bonus to 125% or +1 weapon hardpoint
Either of these would increase the effective number of weapons from 8 to 10. I feel this would really improve Marauders.
Next, the tractor beam range bonus. I would really like to drop this in favour of something else. However, in order to keep long range tractor beams I think the introduction of medium and large sized tractor beams that had longer ranges would be a very welcome addition to the game. Being as these tractor beams would be useful on other ships.
The additional role bonus could then be something really useful to each Marauder. I think something along the lines of these bonuses could be considered: Kronos: 75% reduction to MWD capacitor penalty Golem: 50% reduction to shield boost capacitor usage Vargur: 50% bonus to afterburner speed boost Paladin: 50% reduction in Large energy turret cap usage or 50% optimal range bonus |
m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
63
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 19:17:00 -
[70] - Quote
The damage bonus increase, maybe... another weapon hardpoint, no. Not unless they increased the total highslot count on maurauders to 8 to keep the 3 extra high's. The 125% damage bonus would work though.
Your role bonus ideas are just no. It looks like you're basing these "bonuses" off very specific fits. And I don't know why you keep pushing the medium and large tractor beams, they're fine as is imo. Without a bonus to them, for ships that should have them, they're a lot less useful. What you're wanting is T1 ships with tractors that can reach marauder ranges, which I disagree with.
As for my changes, they ARE enough. Everyone needs to understand that these ships don't need to be made OP. Quit trying to make them that way. They just need to be brought in line with other ships and ungimped. Besides the Golem using Cruise missiles, their damage output is pretty good imo. Paladin needs its damage bonus put on battleship skill rather than marauder skill. It could probably use a tracking bonus, too. I don't want paper dps added to these ships. I want applicable damage modifiers. Tracking bonuses (kronos and vargur have 'em, why not paladin?), webs, tp, MAYBE a range bonus. A proper fit takes care of most issues. The problem is in plenty of cases, we've got to fit **** on our marauders just to fix some flaw to get it to normal levels. Fitting the same mod on another ship makes it specialized to that effect. CCP are not going to make 1200dps marauders the norm. Would be awesome, sure, but it's not gonna happen. If they'd bring them all up to 1000dps ships, that'd be nice. The faction ships can do it, so should the marauders. |
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Amaroq Dricaldari
69
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Posted - 2012.02.08 23:26:00 -
[71] - Quote
*starts clapping* This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
Spugg Galdon
Mak Mining Corp
76
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 06:49:00 -
[72] - Quote
at who? |
Hans Momaki
State War Academy Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 07:48:00 -
[73] - Quote
m3talc0re X wrote:The damage bonus increase, maybe... another weapon hardpoint, no. Not unless they increased the total highslot count on maurauders to 8 to keep the 3 extra high's. The 125% damage bonus would work though.
Your role bonus ideas are just no. It looks like you're basing these "bonuses" off very specific fits. And I don't know why you keep pushing the medium and large tractor beams, they're fine as is imo. Without a bonus to them, for ships that should have them, they're a lot less useful. What you're wanting is T1 ships with tractors that can reach marauder ranges, which I disagree with.
As for my changes, they ARE enough. Everyone needs to understand that these ships don't need to be made OP. Quit trying to make them that way. They just need to be brought in line with other ships and ungimped. Besides the Golem using Cruise missiles, their damage output is pretty good imo. Paladin needs its damage bonus put on battleship skill rather than marauder skill. It could probably use a tracking bonus, too. I don't want paper dps added to these ships. I want applicable damage modifiers. Tracking bonuses (kronos and vargur have 'em, why not paladin?), webs, tp, MAYBE a range bonus. A proper fit takes care of most issues. The problem is in plenty of cases, we've got to fit **** on our marauders just to fix some flaw to get it to normal levels. Fitting the same mod on another ship makes it specialized to that effect. CCP are not going to make 1200dps marauders the norm. Would be awesome, sure, but it's not gonna happen. If they'd bring them all up to 1000dps ships, that'd be nice. The faction ships can do it, so should the marauders.
I agree. Marauders don't have to be OP, but they should be better then any other subcap for Missions. This is not the case atm. Especially the golem (sorry, I don't get tired of mentioning this point). I don't need sensor strenght (IDC really, fit a ECCM for guristas ffs), but I need dmg application. With the only viable fit on a Golem, (Torps!) you can't hit anything besides BS's. And you need TP's to even hit them. That's just flawed. Golem is the "mew of the marauders", just because you need those TP's, cause Rigors and skills are not working, and because theres no lowslot module which has a more then minor impact on dmg application.
This makes the Golem pretty much useless (unless you want to spend a bil on a ship which is only useful on 5 missions in total). So either unnerf torps (and make them a viable weapon atleast), or give the golem a huge buff to dmg application, and get rid of those "you need those 3 TP's to hit a battleship, hahahahaha!" - nonsense.
I would buy a marauder which does 1000 dps ingame almost instantly. But the Golem is so far off here, that I have to laugh everytime I see someone flying it. This fact should make dev's cry. |
Spugg Galdon
Mak Mining Corp
76
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 08:36:00 -
[74] - Quote
I have a Torp Golem and I don't really have any problem with damage application on anything other than fast cruisers and frigate but my drones tend to deal with those easily.-á I volley npc battle cruisers and three shot npc battleships. My range is a little painful though and my ship is rediculously expensive (2 bill). On the whole though I find the tractor beam bonus the most useless thing on the ship, the second most useless is the sensor strength. It is also a little difficult to fit but I manage.
With reference to those bonuses I've suggested. They aren't for specific fits it's just I feel that they would benefit those hulls the most.-á A blaster fit Kronos is very good but the MWD cap penalty really hurts.-á The Paladin could use a bonus to optimal which would help a great deal as its power grid is more suited to pulse fits over beams. Or a bonus to laser cap use would be a massive benefit.-á The Golem would find a cap bonus to shield boosting immensely valuable.-á And the only thing I could see being useful on a Vargur would be a fast AB fit as it makes the most use of the ships abilities.-á
I'm open to other suggestions as this is a discussion.-á
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Limerance Zet-Giry
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 09:51:00 -
[75] - Quote
I'd vote for giving marauders bonus for salvage _amount_. It is most matching to their "roleplay". Say, marauder gets 20% more of salvage components per Marauder skill level, so in perfect, it gets twice more salvage components from the single wreck, than any other ship.
This will not intersect with Noctis niche, and at the same time, will make marauders really meaningful. Also, it will cease inflation in the economics a bit (more goods with the same ISK amount). Another possible bonus is to chance of salvagning success. But it a bit less interesting. Could you place this suggestion to the first post?
P.S. About your bonuses - they are also good, but they are mmm.... Common. Thus - less interesting in terms of roleplay and ships differentiation. |
Spugg Galdon
Mak Mining Corp
76
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 09:58:00 -
[76] - Quote
Limerance Zet-Giry wrote:I'd vote for giving marauders bonus for salvage _amount_. It is most matching to their "roleplay". Say, marauder gets 20% more of salvage components per Marauder skill level, so in perfect, it gets twice more salvage components from the single wreck, than any other ship.
This will not intersect with Noctis niche, and at the same time, will make marauders really meaningful. Also, it will cease inflation in the economics a bit (more goods with the same ISK amount). Could you place this suggestion to the first post?
P.S. About your bonuses - they are also good, but they are mmm.... Common. Thus - less interesting in terms of roleplay and ships differentiation.
Problem here is that people with lots of isk will use the marauder as a pure salvage ship as they would get double the salvage from a mission causing all sorts of other issues.-á |
Limerance Zet-Giry
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 10:03:00 -
[77] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:Problem here is that people with lots of isk will use the marauder as a pure salvage ship as they would get double the salvage from a mission causing all sorts of other issues.-á And four times slower than with Noctis? I doubt it. Those who have lots of isk, need to salvage hundreds of wrecks per hour. Most often - in WH or null space. Fat, slow, vulnerable and expensive marauders will be bad for them.
Also, if you will give to marauder one of your bonus - this will still result just in more ISK per hour. No difference - just less interesting bonuses. |
Limerance Zet-Giry
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 10:07:00 -
[78] - Quote
P.S. Also, more salvage doesn't mean that rich people will get more ISK. It will mean that salvage components will be cheaper. This means that rigs will be cheaper. Which looks good to me. Less inflation. |
Spugg Galdon
Mak Mining Corp
79
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 12:20:00 -
[79] - Quote
7 high slots on a Marauder remember. So thats 3/4 tractors and 3/4 salvagers. Double salvage bonus + tractor beam bonus would mean the ship becomes a salvager which is actually better than a Noctis as its volume of salvage is double. |
Amaroq Dricaldari
70
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 19:27:00 -
[80] - Quote
Limerance Zet-Giry wrote:P.S. Also, more salvage doesn't mean that rich people will get more ISK. It will mean that salvage components will be cheaper. This means that rigs will be cheaper. Which looks good to me. Less inflation. Inflation is caused by extra currency getting pumped into the economy. It is completely unrelated from supply and demand.
As more people need more things, demand increases. As more ISK goes into circulation, inflation increases, as more stuff becomes available, supply increases. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
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Amaroq Dricaldari
Malicious Mission Murderers
76
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 08:24:00 -
[81] - Quote
Bump This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
63
|
Posted - 2012.02.11 21:38:00 -
[82] - Quote
For your proposed bonus changes (which I completely disagree with them), what would you give up to have those added?
A mwd bonus on a Kronos would be completely useless for 90% of the people that would fly it. Rails is the way to go.
I prefer beams in missions, they're just superior to pulses for pve (mostly). Not to mention the Paladin is one of the few ships able to fit tach's. Honestly, tachyon's need their pg reduced...
The Golem with a cap bonus to shield boosters is meh. Like I said, what would you have to give up to get that bonus... something far more useful, I can tell you that.
Vargur isn't a mach. No AB/MWD bonus.
You're wanting bonuses to fits that most people wouldn't use, even with those bonuses, they'd prob get ignored. And as for the salvage amount bonus? Like already said, that'd become THE salvage boat and nobody would use a Noctis. You can't have a bonus on ship that gets salvage from where it doesn't exist... |
Spugg Galdon
Mak Mining Corp
94
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 13:08:00 -
[83] - Quote
The bonuses I've suggested are just examples of what the tractor beam bonus could be changed for. I've gone for more capacitor saving bonuses. The Kronos MWD bonus is useful and would give a blaster fit option without compromising the rail fit as you don't really need to use it. The AB speed bonus I suggested could be a AB/MWD duration bonus or something else altogether.
What kind of bonus would you like instead of the tractor beam bonus? |
Lord Drokoth
DARKNESS RISING. IMPERIAL LEGI0N
9
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 19:54:00 -
[84] - Quote
I have also found marauders rather underwhelming.. mainly the paladin. my golem did its job well but i had to fit it with a rather expensive fit for it to really come out to its own. The thing with marauders as people have quite rightly said is that they are only good for solo pve and other very similar roles. where they sit in a mission, plex etc and salvage as they go along to save time or the need for an alt. With their pre nerfed damage (the pali origionally had a 7.5pc tracking speed bonus per level) their vulnerability to ewar and their low ehp they are almost impossible to fit for PVP in a way that faction battleships cant do better. Although i dont want to make faction bs redundant i think they aught to be changed in a fasion that will allow them to be feasible in pvp and pve in their current roles.
The difference between the Tech II bs and the Tech II BCs is their resist profiles. maybe if the marauders (and maybe the blackops?) had the same profiles they would be more viable for combat. Though if this was done, the marauders repping bonuses would probably need to be changed as they could end up tanking too much dps. But this would result in some interesting trimark hp marauder fittings that could be used to PVP in while also carrying out the same role in pve due to the tanks running similar values... without delivering overpowered dps.
Just a few thoughts. |
m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
63
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 20:20:00 -
[85] - Quote
Excluding the idea of new sized tractor beams, I don't want the tractor bonus removed from marauders. I want it improved. Along with having a bonus to help salvage wrecks faster, maybe cycle time or improved chance of salvage per cycle. |
Spugg Galdon
Mak Mining Corp
95
|
Posted - 2012.02.14 06:16:00 -
[86] - Quote
So you would be happy dropping the tractor beam bonus and introducing medium and large variants. Then giving the Marauders a new bonus. Would you prefer this new bonus to be a salvaging bonus or something useful in PvP too?
Also, how many people are in favour of increasing the Marauder damage bonus from 100% to 125%? |
Amaroq Dricaldari
Malicious Mission Murderers
80
|
Posted - 2012.02.14 07:13:00 -
[87] - Quote
I am in cavorted of a damage increase.
And speaking of Salvaging and Tractor Beams, have you ever heard of someone loading a Noctis with Smartbombs? This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
Spugg Galdon
Mak Mining Corp
95
|
Posted - 2012.02.14 09:33:00 -
[88] - Quote
Amaroq Dricaldari wrote: And speaking of Salvaging and Tractor Beams, have you ever heard of someone loading a Noctis with Smartbombs?
I don't understand. Are you infering that you wouldn't/shouldn't put smart bombs on a Noctis as it's an industrial ship focused on salvaging operations? I don't see how this is relevent because a Marauder isn't an industrial ship. It is a "combat" ship with a rubbish tractor beam bonus. |
Amaroq Dricaldari
Malicious Mission Murderers
80
|
Posted - 2012.02.14 23:06:00 -
[89] - Quote
I was saying that because my friend recently reported getting smartbombed by a Noctis. It was an off-topic remark. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
m3talc0re X
SandStorm. The Babylon Consortium
63
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 14:40:00 -
[90] - Quote
I'm okay with the idea of tractor beam size variants, but not totally for it either. What would be the range on the small ones? 20km, 40? What about mediums and/or large? This would effectively make the Nightmare a marauder (in a current use sense). Most ships don't have the extra highs to make effective (current) marauder use of them, but the nightmare (and bhalgorn?) both have 4 guns with a 100% bonus and 3 spare highs. This furthers the problem of paladin vs nightmare. While the Noctis I assume would be stuck with "small" tractor beams (say, 20km) to keep its bonuses as is. What about the medium and large tractor cpu/pg? Would their cpu or pg be scaled enough to keep them from being fit on ships too small for them? What would that do to current ships' fits trying to make use of them. Just drop down to using a small/medium on a bs fit with too little pg/cpu?
There's a lot more to consider than just "throw this in the game". Your idea isn't bad, just saying we gotta think about all that it would effect. Which is kind of what's good about what I've suggested in that the changes are minimal and aren't game breaking or anything. In a perfect world, we'd get your tractor variants and get a special role bonus on the marauders to reduce cpu/pg usage of them without compromising another bonus for it. With the minimal changes, the marauders would get a much needed buff. We can hope for the 125% damage bonus, but even without it they would still get a huge boost fixing what they came pre-nerfed with. If you get what I'm saying. |
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