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Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:17:00 - [1] ... a bit overpowered and imbalanced? I am asking fellow pilots of this honest and noble community because I feel command ships are overpowered and imbalanced. I have heard and seen most pilots who are successful in their combat engagements usually have better kill : death ratio when they are flying command ships. If they fly non-command ships then their death : kill ratio would be higher. What do you community think, are my observations accurate and precise? Please tell me your success stories with command ships. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:22:00 - [2] nope Originally by: ISD Valorem The Devs have stated multiple times that they are looking at the Amarr issues. Weekly quote: "Villains always have antidotes... They're funny that way." ~The Tick
Zaqar	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:22:00 - [3] troll
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:23:00 - [4] I fly a Sleipnir... I've gotten my ass handed to me plenty of times Originally by: ISD Valorem The Devs have stated multiple times that they are looking at the Amarr issues. Weekly quote: "Villains always have antidotes... They're funny that way." ~The Tick
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:24:00 - [5] Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 25/11/2007 10:29:16 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire ... a bit overpowered and imbalanced? I am asking fellow pilots of this honest and noble community because I feel command ships are overpowered and imbalanced. I have heard and seen most pilots who are successful in their combat engagements usually have better kill : death ratio when they are flying command ships. If they fly non-command ships then their death : kill ratio would be higher. What do you community think, are my observations accurate and precise? Please tell me your success stories with command ships. CCP feels the Eos is overpowered and must be brought back in line with the other command ships.. So by your opinion it will still be a wtfpwnmobile and needs further nerfing? stands back as the angry bloodthirsty mob of Eos pilots bumrush the thread Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:27:00 - [6] The Eos was fine, a solid opponent in which a fight I had lasted over 5 minutes... I won so no, the Eos is not overpowered... just because you fail at Eve life doesnt mean the game should be tailored to make you feel better Originally by: ISD Valorem The Devs have stated multiple times that they are looking at the Amarr issues. Weekly quote: "Villains always have antidotes... They're funny that way." ~The Tick
Incantare Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:28:00 - [7] Edited by: Incantare on 25/11/2007 10:28:32 They can get out of some situations a battleship would die in, on the other hand they still have BC level cap and can't take as much neuting. Field command ships have great tanks but low dps. Where's the imbalance?
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:29:00 - [8] In the minds of the weak Originally by: ISD Valorem The Devs have stated multiple times that they are looking at the Amarr issues. Weekly quote: "Villains always have antidotes... They're funny that way." ~The Tick
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services The Acquisition	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:31:00 - [9] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny The Eos was fine, a solid opponent in which a fight I had lasted over 5 minutes... I won so no, the Eos is not overpowered... just because you fail at Eve life doesnt mean the game should be tailored to make you feel better This thread is horrible flamebait, but I can't help but feel obligated to mention that the outcome of a single fight is not an indicator of balance.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:31:00 - [10] No Jesus. I am not saying it should be nerfed further. I am asking up to this patch, do people feel or notice their kill : death ratio is so much better when they fly command ships. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Moghydin Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:33:00 - [11] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire No Jesus. I am not saying it should be nerfed further. I am asking up to this patch, do people feel or notice their kill : death ratio is so much better when they fly command ships. It's even better when they fly carriers and motherships. What's the point of this thread actually? Press alt+F4 to reduce lag
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:34:00 - [12] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire No Jesus. I am not saying it should be nerfed further. I am asking up to this patch, do people feel or notice their kill : death ratio is so much better when they fly command ships. Not much better than when I use a BS. Considering that that cost quite a lot more isks to replace, and are more skill-intensive, they're fine as they are (well, except the Eos that was overpowered, but it's brought back on line with the other Fleet CS). ------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:34:00 - [13] Moghydin, read the last paragraph of original thread please. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Samuraki Ratuno	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:34:00 - [14] Yes it is better. ComShips are harder to kill, that`s the reason. In small engagments rarely Coms are called primary.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:35:00 - [15] That's all I fly unless I out in a jumpclone yarring about somewhere solo for fun It's a BS in a BC size ship that locks faster than a real BS Originally by: ISD Valorem The Devs have stated multiple times that they are looking at the Amarr issues. Weekly quote: "Villains always have antidotes... They're funny that way." ~The Tick
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:35:00 - [16] Hi Jenny, Heres some attention. Have a good day.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:38:00 - [17] Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 25/11/2007 10:38:50 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire No Jesus. I am not saying it should be nerfed further. I am asking up to this patch, do people feel or notice their kill : death ratio is so much better when they fly command ships. Sure.. Back before the nos nerf I regularly ran a bait drake and 2 gank fitted eos and had spectacular luck with the combo.. Awesome dps and great resists if the target(s) has big teeth = a higher kill-death ratio than if I was using gank brutixs.. So all is in order as far as thats concerned.. Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:40:00 - [18] If anything needs further nerfing it's that damn god-tank on the drake Originally by: ISD Valorem The Devs have stated multiple times that they are looking at the Amarr issues. Weekly quote: "Villains always have antidotes... They're funny that way." ~The Tick
Scott Ryder Infestation. The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:41:00 - [19] I like this. I really really do. When you need aprox a year to fly a commandship successfully, (all basic training, decent gunnery skills, good tank skills, and the commandship skill, And it is effective it is overpowered? WHAT is with this "I want every ship to be equally good" mentality that has been striking eve the last 18 months? At least get your facts before you nerf signatures, You just removed the picture of a dead Santa, and not the text where he was told to just pay the ransom, and THEN it was eve related
Moghydin Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:42:00 - [20] They have better tank, harder to kill. That doesn't make them unbalanced. When you fly bigger ships with better tank, your k/d ratio is going up. They also cost quite a lot. I still fail to see the point here. Why use command ships. That can be said about any ship group, the bigger your ship, the better your K/D ratio (if you know what you are doing). When T2 battleships will come out, they will be even harder to kill and their pilots will have even better K/D ratio. And I was referring to your 2-nd paragraph: "I am asking fellow pilots of this honest and noble community because I feel command ships are overpowered and imbalanced." Jenny Spitfire But you failed to provide any evidence except that they are harder to kill than smaller/less tanked and much cheaper groups of ships. Press alt+F4 to reduce lag
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:43:00 - [21] Scott, it is called balanced. A balanced game is a good game in my honest opinion. :) --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:43:00 - [22] Don't worry... soon ambulation will hit and all the little whiners that want Eve to = WoW will be doing that and leave the fighting aspect to us REAL players Originally by: ISD Valorem The Devs have stated multiple times that they are looking at the Amarr issues. Weekly quote: "Villains always have antidotes... They're funny that way." ~The Tick
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:44:00 - [23] Moghydin, there is a reason I am asking the community. If I know the answer, I wouldn't ask the community. :s --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Scott Ryder Infestation. The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:45:00 - [24] Yes it is balanced as it is. Drake on the other hand as previously mentioned however is not balanced in line with the other battlecruisers At least get your facts before you nerf signatures, You just removed the picture of a dead Santa, and not the text where he was told to just pay the ransom, and THEN it was eve related
Rilder Caldari THC LTD	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:45:00 - [25] Edited by: Rilder on 25/11/2007 10:45:07 Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny If anything needs further nerfing it's that damn god-tank on the drake Yeah it can tank, to bad it does aproximately the dps of a Drunk fish. Also boost Command ships <3
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:47:00 - [26] Originally by: Scott Ryder Yes it is balanced as it is. Drake on the other hand as previously mentioned however is not balanced in line with the other battlecruisers Then make the Drake into an armor tanking and missile spewing battlecruiser with a drone bay size matching other battlecruisers please. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Moghydin Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:49:00 - [27] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Moghydin, there is a reason I am asking the community. If I know the answer, I wouldn't ask the community. :s So you want an answer? No, they are not overpowered. They are good as they are now, may be some ships should be tweaked here and there, but they are not overpowered as a class. Are HACs overpowered? Are dictors overpowered? You don't tell us why are you asking that question. Better K/D ratio? C'mmon is that even an argument? Those ships require a long skill training in order to just fly them and much longer to fly them reasonably good. Why they should be weak and easily killed? Press alt+F4 to reduce lag
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:51:00 - [28] New Jenny takes more crap than I do... and doesn't get into bitter arguements. I'm starting to like New Jenny, granted carebear as hell, but still Originally by: ISD Valorem The Devs have stated multiple times that they are looking at the Amarr issues. Weekly quote: "Villains always have antidotes... They're funny that way." ~The Tick
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:53:00 - [29] Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 25/11/2007 10:53:25 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Scott Ryder Yes it is balanced as it is. Drake on the other hand as previously mentioned however is not balanced in line with the other battlecruisers Then make the Drake into an armor tanking and missile spewing battlecruiser with a drone bay size matching other battlecruisers please. Both of you stfu about the drake.. Tank:[=======================@=====] DPS:.[=====@=======================] Bal:..[==============@==============] Yup balance is right in the middle so lets forget about the drake.. Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Scott Ryder Infestation. The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:59:00 - [30] Edited by: Scott Ryder on 25/11/2007 11:01:56 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Scott Ryder Yes it is balanced as it is. Drake on the other hand as previously mentioned however is not balanced in line with the other battlecruisers Then make the Drake into an armor tanking and missile spewing battlecruiser with a drone bay size matching other battlecruisers please. Hmmm you are somewhat full of crap. What i said was it should be nerfed further considering the godlike tank you can fit on it. And missiles aint got that bad dps. I feel that you are somewhat subjective when you make posts about nerfs and buffs here. Just a tad subjective. Edit: and by the full of crap thing, i dont mean you as a person, just youre views and crawing for attention. But you as a person im sure is a pretty nice guy or girl. At least get your facts before you nerf signatures, You just removed the picture of a dead Santa, and not the text where he was told to just pay the ransom, and THEN it was eve related
Rilder Caldari THC LTD	Posted - 2007.11.25 11:02:00 - [31] Edited by: Rilder on 25/11/2007 11:02:22 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Then make the Drake into an armor tanking and missile spewing battlecruiser with a drone bay size matching other battlecruisers please. The Drake is Caldari.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.11.25 11:04:00 - [32] Originally by: Rilder Edited by: Rilder on 25/11/2007 11:02:22 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Then make the Drake into an armor tanking and missile spewing battlecruiser with a drone bay size matching other battlecruisers please. The Drake is Caldari. So? On my very first character (Amarr) I shield tanked an Apoc somehow... and the tank worked! I still don't remember what the hell I did Originally by: ISD Valorem The Devs have stated multiple times that they are looking at the Amarr issues. Weekly quote: "Villains always have antidotes... They're funny that way." ~The Tick
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.25 11:09:00 - [33] Even the best tank is nto really true. A tank focused BS will usually outtank Commandships. Any Tier 3 BS will do it in fact. They are pretty balanced I would say. They will kill more than BS also because they lock faster and they can move faster. But put them on a hug fleet fight and they are just as interesting as a normal BC ( in a 100 vs 100 battles, if you are in a HUrricane or sleipnir makes very little difference) If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Rilder Caldari THC LTD	Posted - 2007.11.25 11:10:00 - [34] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Originally by: Rilder Edited by: Rilder on 25/11/2007 11:02:22 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Then make the Drake into an armor tanking and missile spewing battlecruiser with a drone bay size matching other battlecruisers please. The Drake is Caldari. So? On my very first character (Amarr) I shield tanked an Apoc somehow... and the tank worked! I still don't remember what the hell I did I was more thinking of the bonuses it'd get but yeah people armor tank ravens sometimes.
ArmyOfMe hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.11.25 11:13:00 - [35] Commandship pro's: Good dps, good res, faster and more agile then a bs. Cons: Will get killed by a battleship pilot with the same ammount of sp, high price, high skill req, only two rig slots. No the commandship isnt really overpowerd, the best pvp'ers in commandships today fly those cause for them the ship adds a new aspect after having flown battleships for as long as they have. Before you say the commandships are owerpowerd, you have to take into consideration the ammount of sp most good commandship pilot has, and the ammount of experience as well
Scott Ryder Infestation. The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2007.11.25 11:15:00 - [36] Originally by: ArmyOfMe Commandship pro's: Good dps, good res, faster and more agile then a bs. Cons: Will get killed by a battleship pilot with the same ammount of sp, high price, high skill req, only two rig slots. No the commandship isnt really overpowerd, the best pvp'ers in commandships today fly those cause for them the ship adds a new aspect after having flown battleships for as long as they have. Before you say the commandships are owerpowerd, you have to take into consideration the ammount of sp most good commandship pilot has, and the ammount of experience as well What you said. Love your sig, is olata still playing Eve btw? At least get your facts before you nerf signatures, You just removed the picture of a dead Santa, and not the text where he was told to just pay the ransom, and THEN it was eve related
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.11.25 11:15:00 - [37] That's Eve... there's really way too many variables to take into account to make any reasonable arguement here Originally by: ISD Valorem The Devs have stated multiple times that they are looking at the Amarr issues. Weekly quote: "Villains always have antidotes... They're funny that way." ~The Tick
Bomerang Dai Dai Hai	Posted - 2007.11.25 11:20:00 - [38] I die more often in a cruiser than in my command ship, therefore command ships are overpowered.. yeah, right. How much must I pay to get the old Jenny back ?
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.25 11:25:00 - [39] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 25/11/2007 11:25:50 Hmmmmmmmmmm. I am not sure should I be worried or not but you guys especially vets are telling me because it takes one year to skill up for a ship and if you know what you are doing and it is a bit of a pwnmobile it should remain as one. Is that what you are trying to tell me? When T2 battleships come into game, they would take up to 2 years to skill up and vets would be advantaging from them from experience. If they do become pwnmobiles, they should be pwnmobiles. Is that also what you want me to think? EDIT: Bomerang, too much ISKs :( --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Grunanca BLACK-FLAG	Posted - 2007.11.25 11:29:00 - [40] Considering you can lose 7 battleships (not counting modules here) with insurance on, with the same loss as if you flew and lost 1 Sleipnir, no I dont thing they are overpowered, they take many times the skill of a battleship (around 160 days), and they are way more expensive.
Scott Ryder Infestation. The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2007.11.25 11:31:00 - [41] You throw the word vet and pwn mobile around to much. You bought a char, say jenny can fly commandships, but the one who bought it has no clue how to use it. It isnt only the sp that mather, its the person using the computer aswell. And no a commandship isnt a solopwn mobile if it was, someone would be solo camping a lowsec gate killing carriers and battleships all day with it. No its a ship wich requires more skilling and is therefor better then the t1 ships. spend a year skilling for it and you might have some insight. At least get your facts before you nerf signatures, You just removed the picture of a dead Santa, and not the text where he was told to just pay the ransom, and THEN it was eve related
ArmyOfMe hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.11.25 11:33:00 - [42] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 25/11/2007 11:27:19 Hmmmmmmmmmm. I am not sure should I be worried or not but you guys especially vets are telling me because it takes one year to skill up for a ship and if you know what you are doing and it is a bit of a pwnmobile it should remain as one. Is that what you are trying to tell me? When T2 battleships come into game, they would take up to 2 years to skill up and vets would be advantaging them from experience. If they do become pwnmobiles, they should be pwnmobiles. Is that also what you want me to think? EDIT: Bomerang, too much ISKs :( Well, this is a game were vets do have have an advantage when it comes to skill points, no doubt about it, and i see nothing wrong with that either. But the real advantage is never the ammount of sp but how well your able to use the ship your piloting, and that comes from experience, not sp. Chances of the new t2 bs becoming sorts of a solo pwnmobile is rather high, but the price of them will also dictate the fact that you wont see many ppl flying around solo in them at all.
Jupiter Sun	Posted - 2007.11.25 11:33:00 - [43] A full estamel passive tank on a nighthawk is like capital ship sized O_o
Scott Ryder Infestation. The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2007.11.25 11:37:00 - [44] You seems to have misunderstood the entire balance concept. Im not even gonna bother giving you more attention, you seems to be somewhat disoriented. At least get your facts before you nerf signatures, You just removed the picture of a dead Santa, and not the text where he was told to just pay the ransom, and THEN it was eve related
Grunanca BLACK-FLAG	Posted - 2007.11.25 11:41:00 - [45] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 25/11/2007 11:27:19 Hmmmmmmmmmm. I am not sure should I be worried or not but you guys especially vets are telling me because it takes one year to skill up for a ship and if you know what you are doing and it is a bit of a pwnmobile it should remain as one. Is that what you are trying to tell me? When T2 battleships come into game, they would take up to 2 years to skill up and vets would be advantaging them from experience. If they do become pwnmobiles, they should be pwnmobiles. Is that also what you want me to think? EDIT: Bomerang, too much ISKs :( Why would you ever use a command ship solo? Of course as you bought your char, you wouldnt know a damn thing about EVE, but for the people who work for isk and actually spend the time training, it would be insane to send out a ship that expensive which can be ganked by 1-2 BS or a small gang of HACs. The only place a command ship belong is in a gang, and there it does it job well, just like it should. And what about motherships then? You are aware these are even more difficult to kill right? And surprise surprise! They cost more!!!
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.11.25 11:44:00 - [46] Originally by: Incantare on the other hand they still have BC level cap and can't take as much neuting.Where's the imbalance? Neuting? who needs cap anyways? But ur right though, there not that overpowered at all, esp if u consider the skills neede to pilot them right. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Riho Northen Breeze	Posted - 2007.11.25 11:44:00 - [47] nope and stfu... troll
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:18:00 - [48] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire ... a bit overpowered and imbalanced? I am asking fellow pilots of this honest and noble community because I feel command ships are overpowered and imbalanced. I have heard and seen most pilots who are successful in their combat engagements usually have better kill : death ratio when they are flying command ships. If they fly non-command ships then their death : kill ratio would be higher. What do you community think, are my observations accurate and precise? Please tell me your success stories with command ships. If you'd had to actually put the time and effort into skilling for them rather than just buying a character with the skill, you might feel a little differently. They take a LOT of SP to get, and especially if you're flying Fleet Command Ships, even more SP to use properly, comparable with capital ships. My alt is coming to the end of a 7-month skill plan to get in to one. It'll be another 6 months before she can use it to maximum effect, I reckon. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Korad Konstentyn The Genyosha Society PURGE.	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:20:00 - [49] ya know.. (and I should know too)... if Jenny is such a damn carebear what the hell is she doing in THE CHURCH ? (home of everyones favorite.. INFOD) Urgh.. I feel owned...Jenny is a HUGE troll..ignore the carebear routine folks, its a lie, Jenny is a troll, just ignore the hell out of her. The character was bought JUST to mess with people... end of story, dont feel the troll, that all Jenny is
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:25:00 - [50] Reaches out and feels the troll Originally by:* ISD Valorem The Devs have stated multiple times that they are looking at the Amarr issues. Weekly quote: "Villains always have antidotes... They're funny that way." ~The Tick
Korad Konstentyn The Genyosha Society PURGE.	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:30:00 - [51] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny *Reaches out and feels the troll yeah, I sat there and looked at that post afterwards.. and just thought 'what have my typo's wrought?!' ah well, have at it folks, there's more where that came from..
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:34:00 - [52] Command ships were pretty much the only class of ship I've not heard people complaining about, up until now. I don't fly them personally, but I've been involved in enough command ship kills to be pretty certain they're fine as they are. They hurt if you're on the unfriendly end of one, certainly, but they die just like everything else if you use the right tactics. Oh and guys, seriously - it was just a question. Just because you aren't answering "yes" does not make it flame-bait. If you'd just said something civil like "no, I don't think so, here are some facts to support my viewpoint" then this WOULDN'T be a troll thread. Seriously, whoever first called it a troll thread actually turned it into one. - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Korad Konstentyn The Genyosha Society PURGE.	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:37:00 - [53] Originally by: Stitcher Seriously, whoever first called it a troll thread actually turned it into one. unless you can show me proof otherwise, I am currently convinced that Jenny's character was purchased specifically for the purpose of trolling the forums. The more I look at her post history, the more this is pseudo-ironically implicit to it all.
Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:46:00 - [54] Command ships are perfectly fine. They're like BS, only they cost more, generally have somewhat lesser DPS, have less cap...and don't insure for anywhere near full cost. The updside: they're faster by a significant amount, and their resists kick ass. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Beth Dei Gallente 242nd Front	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:53:00 - [55] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny If anything needs further nerfing it's that damn god-tank on the drake This.
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.11.25 13:07:00 - [56] Originally by: Korad Konstentyn Originally by: Stitcher Seriously, whoever first called it a troll thread actually turned it into one. unless you can show me proof otherwise, I am currently convinced that Jenny's character was purchased specifically for the purpose of trolling the forums. The more I look at her post history, the more this is pseudo-ironically implicit to it all. Nevertheless, by rising to that assumed trolling, people have contributed to this thread's negative atmosphere far more than the Jenny Spitfire character has. The best way to deal with a troll, IMO, is to treat them with civility and maturity, rather than brandishing the pitchforks and flaming torches. the OPer may have started with the intention of causing a flam war, but it's all the other posters who have done the actual flaming. "Not feeling the troll" does not necessarily prevent you from posting an informed opinion, does it? - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Haks'he Lirky Dominion Imperium	Posted - 2007.11.25 13:09:00 - [57] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire What do you community think, are my observations accurate and precise? Please tell me your success stories with command ships. No your observations are not accurate nor precise, command ships are perfectly inline with the skill training and cost required to field one. I don't fly one, but I have killed a few and they go down like any other ship. In fact it's great that they exist as they are as some of the people flying them obviously think the same thing you do, so getting fights with CS pilots is usually easy.
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.11.25 13:24:00 - [58] Originally by: Korad Konstentyn Originally by: Stitcher "Not feeling the troll" does not necessarily prevent you from posting an informed opinion, does it? yep, no argument there, but my point stands. the new Jenny's uber-carebear stance, and all her posting, are not intended to promote intelligence discourse.. she's just trolling the forums by acting as the diametric opposite to the previous persona. let's put it this way.. I could start a thread about 'as fellow jews, do you agree we deserved 2500 years of persecution', and probably get some intelligent discourse on the matter.. ...but the moment someone discovers im not Jewish, it renders the whole conversation a little....tainted.. wouldnt you agree? And i've probably got this whole thread locked now. but at least I'll be able to accuse CCP of anti-semitism if that's the case.. lol point taken I guess. I just don't believe in rising to stuff like that. The nature of the OP may taint the subject at hand, but it doesn't necessarily invalidate it. We can use the original troll question as a springboard for actual conversation on the subject, and then ignore the OP after that point if we like. - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
iiOs	Posted - 2007.11.25 13:25:00 - [59] this thread smells
Korad Konstentyn The Genyosha Society PURGE.	Posted - 2007.11.25 13:27:00 - [60] Originally by: Stitcher We can use the original troll then join me, let the hatred take over, it is your destiny ... together we can destroy Jenny, as Quoter and Quotee together...
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.11.25 13:31:00 - [61] Edited by: Stitcher on 25/11/2007 13:32:11 Originally by: Korad Konstentyn Originally by: Stitcher We can use the original troll then join me, let the hatred take over, it is your destiny ... together we can destroy Jenny, as Quoter and Quotee together... meh, pass. I'm hungry, and there's a baked potato and a tin of beans downstairs waiting for me..... EDIT: (also, can you imagine if Luke Skywalker had just told the Emperor - "You know what? let's just go grab a beer instead"?) - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Korad Konstentyn The Genyosha Society PURGE.	Posted - 2007.11.25 13:35:00 - [62] Originally by: Stitcher meh, pass. I'm hungry, and there's a baked potato and a tin of beans downstairs waiting for me..... beans, potatoes, a Jedi craves not these things... Originally by: Stitcher EDIT: (also, can you imagine if Luke Skywalker had just told the Emperor - "You know what? let's just go grab a beer instead"?) now beer on the other hand...
Chr0nosX Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.25 15:43:00 - [63] Edited by: Chr0nosX on 25/11/2007 15:43:28 They are one of the most balanced ships in the game; quit whining because you got your arse handed to you.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.11.25 15:56:00 - [64] Originally by: Korad Konstentyn ya know.. (and I should know too)... if Jenny is such a damn carebear what the hell is she doing in THE CHURCH ? (home of everyones favorite.. INFOD) Urgh.. I feel owned...Jenny is a HUGE troll..ignore the carebear routine folks, its a lie, Jenny is a troll, just ignore the hell out of her. The character was bought JUST to mess with people... end of story, dont feel the troll, that all Jenny is You mean you couldn't tell just from the way she writes? The faux-carebear routine is so obvious that it is also obviously meant to be obvious, to further infuriate anyone who actually cares. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
pain supplier Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.25 16:20:00 - [65] Troll thread #561 from the 'new' Jenny Spitfire. I don't usually mind people who buy accounts usually I just say/think more fool you. In your case though I wish the pratice was banned completely asyou make daft posts a few sentences long with no game experiance. STFU and just play the game and stop being a attention seeking Troll. I propose that you should be banned from the forum for the good of the commuinity. Sometimes I think this is the real Jenny going out of her way to annoy the community for laugh, if so well done. Damn i'm feeding the troll
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.11.25 16:43:00 - [66] Originally by: Korad Konstentyn Hi, Jenny you bought your account, from someone we liked; My god do people still believe this? SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.11.25 16:43:00 - [67] Edited by: Le Skunk on 25/11/2007 16:43:41 Originally by: pain supplier Sometimes I think this is the real Jenny going out of her way to annoy the community for laugh, if so well done. Ker-Ching! SKUNK
Bizz Lizz	Posted - 2007.11.25 16:51:00 - [68] Edited by: Bizz Lizz on 25/11/2007 16:51:24 Considering their increased cost with only basic insurance payout and the training time required they are balanced. Besides that eve pvp is more often won by outnumbering and blobbing, than by flying better ships, so actually the whole point is mood. It's not like vets in command-ships move around and own everything. They can be killed by a group of newbies, who don't know anything about pvp, except to fit for tackling and pressing f1...f8.
Firkragg Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.25 16:53:00 - [69] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 25/11/2007 10:53:25 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Scott Ryder Yes it is balanced as it is. Drake on the other hand as previously mentioned however is not balanced in line with the other battlecruisers Then make the Drake into an armor tanking and missile spewing battlecruiser with a drone bay size matching other battlecruisers please. Both of you stfu about the drake.. Tank:[=======================@=====] DPS:.[=====@=======================] Bal:..[==============@==============] Yup balance is right in the middle so lets forget about the drake.. HAM drake with some BCUs does comparable damage (except to the myrm but thats getting nerfed). The problem is that people prefer to set them up with the huge tank thats far ahead of anything any of the other BCs can manage.
Incantare Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.25 16:58:00 - [70] Originally by: Firkragg HAM drake with some BCUs does comparable damage (except to the myrm but thats getting nerfed). The problem is that people prefer to set them up with the huge tank thats far ahead of anything any of the other BCs can manage. Comparable but inferior, and even then it needs a fitting mod to get a decent fitting because of the crazy pg reqs of hams. Keep in mind the myrm can get nearly the same passive tank.
Bizz Lizz	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:02:00 - [71] Edited by: Bizz Lizz on 25/11/2007 17:05:12 Originally by: Firkragg HAM drake with some BCUs does comparable damage (except to the myrm but thats getting nerfed). The problem is that people prefer to set them up with the huge tank thats far ahead of anything any of the other BCs can manage. Hmm, remember killing a passive tanked drake with a sabre and a stilletto after that nerf and soling 2 passive tanked drakes with a nano-phoon with only 4 torps launchers and 5 drones before the nerf within reasonable time, so didn't really meet that unbeatable passive tanked drake so far. On the other hand I remember failing to take down a caldari command ship with a small gang, no matter what we tried, it just tanked our 8 little ships or so. That was a passive tank.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:03:00 - [72] Considering all the training they take to use, I'd say they're fine. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:05:00 - [73] This is for posters who are not willing to discuss nicely and constructively. You know you do not need to call people names just because they have different point of view or have different game experience. If people ask something and you call them nasty names then why is the point of asking in a general discussion? It is not that I am crying on every other forums asking for nerfs on command ships. Originally by: Korad Konstentyn ...but the moment someone discovers im not Jewish, it renders the whole conversation a little....tainted.. wouldnt you agree? I disagree. It is quite funny to see all so called pirates/griefers/lamers crying waa waaa waa about there is nobody in low-secs or null-secs or why nobody wants to go kill them but prefer to live in empire. Do you guys ever think about wearing shoes of sheeps and wonder why nobody wants to play with you? I tell you it is because there is an imbalance biased to griefers looking for easy kills is why nobody from empire wants to visit non-empire systems. I sometimes think so-called pirates crying for targets are actually sheeps in wolf clothings because they complain about no targets or imbalances in the game but not willing to take compromise or live as sheeps to see the other side of the fence. I honestly want balance in this game so logging in the game would be fun really for sheeps and wolves. I guess this is not one of eVe strongest unique selling point because all of you only want to make eVe is work. :s My 0.01 ISK. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:12:00 - [74] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I disagree. It is quite funny to see all so called pirates/griefers/lamers crying waa waaa waa about there is nobody in low-secs or null-secs or why nobody wants to go kill them but prefer to live in empire. Do you guys ever think about wearing shoes of sheeps and wonder why nobody wants to play with you? I tell you it is because there is an imbalance biased to griefers looking for easy kills is why nobody from empire wants to visit non-empire systems. I sometimes think so-called pirates crying for targets are actually sheeps in wolf clothings because they complain about no targets or imbalances in the game but not willing to take compromise or live as sheeps to see the other side of the fence. I honestly want balance in this game so logging in the game would be fun really for sheeps and wolves. I guess this is not one of eVe strongest unique selling point because all of you only want to make eVe is work. :s My 0.01 ISK. I'm sorry, I'm afraid I didn't really understand the point you're trying to make. Do you think you could maybe re-word it please? - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Alexi Zhukov Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:13:00 - [75] I think account buying should be nerfed just my 0.02 ISK Originally by: Fink Angel "Eve Chess" : where suddenly 20 queens all appear on the board in the same square as you, while the opposing king shoots at you from somewhere just off the board.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:16:00 - [76] Stitcher, I am sorry that I don't know how. I tell you what, let me think how could I re-word it and when I have figured out, I will repost what I wanted to say. :) --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:32:00 - [77] nevermind, I think I got my head round it. to summarize: 1: pirates complain about not having enough targets in low sec 2: the reason there are not enough people flying around in low sec is that it is too easy for people to fly imbalanced setups that can gank anything 3: pirates do not understand this fact because they haven't ever experienced being ganked while trying to do peaceful carebear-ish things. right? my rebuttal: Typically, a gank is where a ship or group of ships attack a target that is far below their weight category. The best example being a command ship attacking an industrial - of COURSE the CS is going to win. Industrials are generally non-combat vessels. A CS versus a ship that's more on its sort of level, on the other hand, is generally a fairly straight fight. your typical "target" in low sec is the sort of ship that is vulnerable. A smart pilot flying a fast frigate is not vulnerable, nor is a skilled pilot flying a tough combat vessel. An unprotected solo mining barge, on the other hand, or a solo Iteron V, is easy pickings, so naturally the pirates are going to go preferentially hunt such targets, and avoid the stuff that could potentially defeat them. So, calling the example of pirates taking out carebears as a reason why command ships are overpowered is somewhat nonsensical - that's like complaining that an A-10 "Warthog" tank hunter is overpowered relative to a civilian truck lorry. In the meantime, the peaceful types - the "sheep" - are probably swapping information about which systems are presently being camped and carefully avoiding the most prominent pirate hangouts so as to minimize their losses. It's like in real life - if there's a spate of muggings in a certain part of town, after a while, word gets around and people will start avoiding the area, or only going there in groups. - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:34:00 - [78] No. DRINK RUM It fights scurvy & boosts morale! THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES!
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:45:00 - [79] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 25/11/2007 17:46:13 Originally by: Stitcher 3: pirates do not understand this fact because they haven't ever experienced being ganked while trying to do peaceful carebear-ish things. right? More or less but mainly referring to Konrad's point and not about haulers getting killed too easily by CS which is what you are talking about later. It would be nonsense for me to say nerf CS because they kill haulers too easily. I think his point is about I am a wolf in sheep's clothing and whatever I say for the under represented is out of the window. 3. is more like so-called pirates do not understand what is life of a sheep is like and they are unwilling to take compromises and want empire dwellers to come to low secs or null secs so they could easily grief them. What I was saying was in reponse to Konrad and not really about nerf CS because they kill haulers too easily. Do you get your head round it now? I am really asking for balance. In CCP, I trust. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:56:00 - [80] They're pretty much balanced Jenny, now let it die.
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:57:00 - [81] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I am really asking for balance. In CCP, I trust. Well, see, that's the thing - to judge by the responses in this thread, the majority think that CS' are balanced. I think your best bet at this point is to bring forward some more solid combat evidence than just "Command Ship pilots have a better kill/death ratio" to prove your point. It's my experience that command ships are rarely chosen as primary targets, because there's usually something more important and more fragile out there to deal with first. So if you want to prove your point, I'd advise pulling out some mathematical proof - say, DPS calculations - that conclusively prove that command ships punch/tank far harder than they should for their size and expense. The thing is that I pretty much guarantee that CCP have already done such calculations and found them to be acceptable. There's not really a lot of evidence here to support your claim that command ships are imbalanced, honestly... - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:04:00 - [82] You bought in a fine point. I personally think those nice DPS graphs do say something about balance within ships in their class minus complicating setups. At most, nice pretty graphs only show full tank or full gank but don't really tell much about balance when playing the game. Theory online is one thing but at the end it is all about belts and braces when it comes to balance in my opinion. I guessed nobody learnt from speedtanking and Vagabonds experience. Everyone was too busy with DPS graphs. :) --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:07:00 - [83] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire You bought in a fine point. I personally think those nice DPS graphs do say something about balance within ships in their class minus complicating setups. At most, nice pretty graphs only show full tank or full gank but don't really tell much about balance when playing the game. Theory online is one thing but at the end it is all about belts and braces when it comes to balance in my opinion. I guessed nobody learnt from speedtanking and Vagabonds experience. Everyone was too busy with DPS graphs. :) but again, the only ships likely to be found in belts are either other pirates (who will probably be avoided) or else civilian vessels like haulers and mining barges, which are easy targets. Pirates in command ships have such great kill/death ratios because they're attacking soft targets they can easily defeat, not because the ship is itself imbalanced. This topic is starting to go in circles. - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:28:00 - [84] Edited by: Goumindong on 25/11/2007 18:29:12 Originally by: Stitcher I think your best bet at this point is to bring forward some more solid combat evidence than just "Command Ship pilots have a better kill/death ratio" to prove your point. It's my experience that command ships are rarely chosen as primary targets, because there's usually something more important and more fragile out there to deal with first. Command ships have terrible/hood DPS/Hit Point ratios depending on how you look at it. When calling primaries you want to call ships which have high DPS and low hit points first[and that your entire gang can get to]. So that these ships will die fast and the majoirty of the opponents DPS dies quicker. This means battlecruisers/Cruiesr/HAcs top the list then Battleships, then Command ships. For instance going up against a gang of "Thorax, Rupture, Harbinger, Abaddon, Astarte". With a similar sized gang you would want to call the Thorax, Rupture, Harbinger, Abaddon/Astarte in that order. The thorax will be doing between 350-650 dps and will have between 12,000 and 25,000 hit points. The Harbinger will be doing between 600-800 dps and will have between 42,000 and 59,000 hit points. The Rupture will be doing between 300 and 600 dps and will have between 12,000 and 25,000 hit points. The Astarte will be doing Between 600 and 1000 dps and will have between 50,000 and 70,000 hit points with a strong rep tank. The Abaddon will have some 1000 dps and 140k hit points. [All numbers assuming optimal hp/tank setups ingoring repair units and using damage drones] As such the best way to attack this gang is to ewar the Abaddon, Astarte, Harbinger, Thorax, Rupture, in that order. And primary the Thorax, Rupture, Harbinger, Astarte, Abaddon in that order. Even when the Astarte is very gank oriented it doesnt make sense to primary it in small gangs. What this means is that as things go lopsided, the ships that are most likely to live are the Abaddon and Astarte... BUT the Abaddon is really slow, and the Astarte is not. Does it make the command ship overpowered? No, it just means that its not a good ship to shoot first in a gang since it is likely to have a lot of hit points and tank relative to its DPS capabilites. Fleets its a bit different, you have so much DPS the primary thing that keeps you from killing things is locking time and tracking. So you go after the battleships first.
Morn Judith Caldari Incognito Inc	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:38:00 - [85] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire You bought in a fine point. I personally think those nice DPS graphs do say something about balance within ships in their class minus complicating setups. At most, nice pretty graphs only show full tank or full gank but don't really tell much about balance when playing the game. Theory online is one thing but at the end it is all about belts and braces when it comes to balance in my opinion. I guessed nobody learnt from speedtanking and Vagabonds experience. Everyone was too busy with DPS graphs. :) Dear "new"-Jenny. Play the game, get some experience, know what you're talking about, or leave us all alone. Originally by: Tarminic I WANT A THRONE MADE OF MY OWN CORPSES.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.25 19:36:00 - [86] Nope. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.25 19:57:00 - [87] Depends, what are they supposed to be like? I do feel like I should be a tough nut to ***** shelling out the kind of money these things cost. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.25 20:15:00 - [88] Originally by: Chr0nosX Edited by: Chr0nosX on 25/11/2007 15:43:28 They are one of the most balanced ships in the game; quit whining because you got your arse handed to you. i¯d like to hand my ass to you:)
Jagaroth Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.11.25 20:27:00 - [89] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Korad Konstentyn Hi, Jenny you bought your account, from someone we liked; My god do people still believe this? SKUNK Yes. Tried and tested. Example (real Jen would know answer, false Jen won't answer at all) question: "What would be your processor of choice?" As to the topic: Some command ships are a bit too powerful/ useful/ flexible compared to other command ships, but given the role they are supposed to perform they are generally pretty balanced when compared to other ship types. My main gripe is that I have had a Vulture for nearly two years and it's still crap. Fix it damnit! They're so bad they're being sold at build price... The Eos is good, but to be honest I prefer an Ishtar unless I'm using gang mods. No idea why the Astarte is so highly priced (cough ). The Nighthawk is probably only overpriced because it's used by mission runners - a Cerberus is more useful in PvP.
maxpricechecker	Posted - 2007.11.25 20:27:00 - [90] Any decent BS player should be able to take on a decent Cmdship pilot.. They are fine, stop trying to get things nerfed!
Drykor Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.11.25 20:32:00 - [91] Good thing no one takes Jenny serious.
adriaans Amarr Advanced Capital Ship Designs	Posted - 2007.11.25 20:34:00 - [92] no, i think they should be buffed.... small drones? WTF? it s a COMMAND ship after all...at least 5 medium drones...(amarr) (field command) -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr! (Or make Amarr the only race able to deal EM damage from turrets).
Auron Shadowbane Teeth Of The Hydra R i s e	Posted - 2007.11.25 20:41:00 - [93] k/d ratio for command ships pilots is good because it isnt harmed by noobs who cant fly for ** and die by 100s. if you fly a command ship you'll usually have t2 gun, t2 tank and prolly even "semi perfect" lvl4/5 in everything related to the ship. at same time their gank/tank ratio is very much centered around tanking and so they wont get primaried soon. easy to get high k/d ratio if you dont get primaried unless your gang **s up and dies...
Scott Ryder Infestation. The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2007.11.25 20:41:00 - [94] Edited by: Scott Ryder on 25/11/2007 20:41:17 Well she is trying to create a flamefest here obviously. Noone in eVe (as she thinks it is called) think commandships are overpowered. They are one of the ships in the game that actually could use a small buff. Nothing major, just some ability to field medium drones or something similar. Edit: Removed profanity (and agreeing what he above me said) At least get your facts before you nerf signatures, You just removed the picture of a dead Santa, and not the text where he was told to just pay the ransom, and THEN it was eve related
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2007.11.25 20:48:00 - [95] The command ship is supposed to be the strongest link in the chain. The power of the fleet. I think with its large skill reqs and time to train and fly it successfully is in line with its power. Of course, I'd rather fly my drake or a HAC, than skill up to fly a command ship.
Mister Xerox	Posted - 2007.11.25 21:03:00 - [96] Just like any other ship, command ships are laughably easy to kill. I've done it many times in a curse, arbitrator, T1 BC, and BS... solo. I'll jump a Command boat more often than I'll consider taking on a Drake or HAC or anything that's FoTM nano'd to the nines (even nano'd a CS is rather slow, comperably). They're not overpowered for what they're intended to do and a good pilot in one is a dangerous enemy... or a pod sitting among the twisted ruins if you're just a little smart about defining the encounter rather than letting them do it.
Aian Genkotsu	Posted - 2007.11.25 21:19:00 - [97] It seems like you have a problem with the fact that if you spend a lot of time and money for a ship that it's going to be stronger than a ship you spend less time and money on. That's how rpgs work. The more time you spend in an rpg the better stuff you get. Command ships are more powerful than battlecruisers and on a slightly lower level than battleships. Seems to me that's exactly the niche they're supposed to fill. Trying to say a class of ship is unbalanced compared to a different class is something you can't definetively prove. It's like comparing apples and oranges.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.11.25 22:03:00 - [98] Originally by: Jagaroth Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Korad Konstentyn Hi, Jenny you bought your account, from someone we liked; My god do people still believe this? SKUNK Yes. Tried and tested. Example (real Jen would know answer, false Jen won't answer at all) question: "What would be your processor of choice?" Balls. The 'new' jenny is ofc the old jenny. just trolling form a different angle. And indeed doing quite well at it. SKUNK
Jagaroth Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.11.25 22:29:00 - [99] Originally by: Le Skunk Balls. The 'new' jenny is ofc the old jenny. just trolling form a different angle. And indeed doing quite well at it. SKUNK I'll believe that when I see the correct answer. ------
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.11.25 22:31:00 - [100] Originally by: Jagaroth Originally by: Le Skunk Balls. The 'new' jenny is ofc the old jenny. just trolling form a different angle. And indeed doing quite well at it. SKUNK I'll believe that when I see the correct answer. Why would the old jenny answer when not answering promotes the idea of a 'new' jenny? Faulty test is faulty. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Karjala Inc. Onnenpyora	Posted - 2007.11.25 22:56:00 - [101] Edited by: Laechyd Eldgorn on 25/11/2007 22:56:22 Quote: wall of lulz Usefulness of this so uber passive tanked drake in PvP:[@=======================] Commandships are pretty fine, although I'd rather keep in my scorpion or rokh.
Anytime Baby	Posted - 2007.11.25 23:18:00 - [102] I'll pay for real and verified kill mails against the original poster.
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2007.11.25 23:56:00 - [103] Originally by: Morn Judith Dear "new"-Jenny. Play the game, get some experience, know what you're talking about, or leave us all alone. QFT. DRINK RUM It fights scurvy & boosts morale! THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES!
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.11.26 00:32:00 - [104] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Jagaroth Originally by: Le Skunk Balls. The 'new' jenny is ofc the old jenny. just trolling form a different angle. And indeed doing quite well at it. SKUNK I'll believe that when I see the correct answer. Why would the old jenny answer when not answering promotes the idea of a 'new' jenny? Faulty test is faulty. precisely SKUNK
Freya Selene Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.26 01:09:00 - [105] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire ... a bit overpowered and imbalanced? I am asking fellow pilots of this honest and noble community because I feel command ships are overpowered and imbalanced. I have heard and seen most pilots who are successful in their combat engagements usually have better kill : death ratio when they are flying command ships. If they fly non-command ships then their death : kill ratio would be higher. What do you community think, are my observations accurate and precise? Please tell me your success stories with command ships. I dont believe commandships are overpowered, nor imbalanced. Flow/Flying them, and they are as good as the pilot is. The diffrence is, mainly skilled pvp pilots use them (effectivly) in combat. Skilled pvp pilots lose less ships in general vs most pilots. So observing that commandship pilots have a bether K/D ratio can be correct. But you forgot to take the skillpoints and pilots into your calculation as well. /me where happy Damnation pilot till they sticked bloody missile turrets on it Am i the only Caldarian person who doesnt like missiles?
Freya Selene Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.26 01:20:00 - [106] Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 25/11/2007 18:36:31 Edited by: Goumindong on 25/11/2007 18:29:12 Originally by: Stitcher I think your best bet at this point is to bring forward some more solid combat evidence than just "Command Ship pilots have a better kill/death ratio" to prove your point. It's my experience that command ships are rarely chosen as primary targets, because there's usually something more important and more fragile out there to deal with first. Command ships have terrible/hood DPS/Hit Point ratios depending on how you look at it. When calling primaries you want to call ships which have high DPS and low hit points first[and that your entire gang can get to]. So that these ships will die fast and the majoirty of the opponents DPS dies quicker. This means battlecruisers/Cruiesr/HAcs top the list then Battleships, then Command ships. For instance going up against a gang of "Thorax, Rupture, Harbinger, Abaddon, Astarte". With a similar sized gang you would want to call the Thorax, Rupture, Harbinger, Abaddon/Astarte in that order. The thorax will be doing between 350-650 dps and will have between 12,000 and 25,000 hit points. The Harbinger will be doing between 600-800 dps and will have between 42,000 and 59,000 hit points. The Rupture will be doing between 300 and 600 dps and will have between 12,000 and 25,000 hit points. The Astarte will be doing Between 600 and 1000 dps and will have between 50,000 and 70,000 hit points with a strong rep tank. The Abaddon will have some 1000 dps and 140k hit points. [All numbers assuming optimal hp/tank setups ingoring repair units and using damage drones] As such the best way to attack this gang is to ewar the Abaddon, Astarte, Harbinger, Thorax, Rupture, in that order[depending on ewar availability of course, a BB does better primarying the harbinger, astarte, abaddon while jamming the rupture and thorax, TDs move the Harbinger in front of the astarte for ewar and after for primary and damps work in the manner above]. And primary the Thorax, Rupture, Harbinger, Astarte, Abaddon in that order. Even when the Astarte is very gank oriented it doesnt make sense to primary it in small gangs. What this means is that as things go lopsided, the ships that are most likely to live are the Abaddon and Astarte... BUT the Abaddon is really slow, and the Astarte is not. Does it make the command ship overpowered? No, it just means that its not a good ship to shoot first in a gang since it is likely to have a lot of hit points and tank relative to its DPS capabilites. Fleets its a bit different, you have so much DPS the primary thing that keeps you from killing things is locking time and tracking. So you go after the battleships first. I would never fly any group/gang/fleet when your FC'ing. Couse you would get everyone killed. Your math's are correct but dont work in engagements, couse you have lots of other calls of nature to look at. The reason commandships are not being primary'd is, its hard to bring them down with a large group. And with a large group there is 80% times that there are more dangerous targets arround then a commandship.
Surreptitious Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.26 01:33:00 - [107] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire ... a bit overpowered and imbalanced? Relative to what? Syrup
Tarron Sarek Gallente Endica Enterprises Alternative Realities	Posted - 2007.11.26 01:56:00 - [108] Well, let me see.. They're mostly used as XL HACs instead of 'command' ships, thus I'd say they fail to fill their predetermined(?) role. I wouldn't call them imbalanced, though. It's just the performance you'd ecpect from an XL HAC. ___________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well - Please stop using the word 'nerf' Nothing spells 'incompetence' or 'don't take me serious' like those four letters
Min Seong Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.11.26 02:44:00 - [109] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny New Jenny takes more crap than I do... and doesn't get into bitter arguements. I'm starting to like New Jenny, granted carebear as hell, but still Where is the old Jenny? I dont like this new one as much.
Jobby Minmatar UNITED STAR SYNDICATE Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.11.26 02:49:00 - [110] No, now beat it. Isk laundering 4t ignore
Nick Curso Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.26 02:56:00 - [111] I lost 2 sleps in 2 days# !!!omg11! boost command ships nerf everyone else.
Freelanc3r Caldari Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.11.26 02:57:00 - [112] Studies show that command ship pilots have better K/D ratio's. Oh really. I preferred the old Jenny. ----------------------------------- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2007.11.26 03:20:00 - [113] They're sufficiently balanced. Maybe they're not 100% perfectly balanced but if everything were 100% balanced the game wouldn't be worth playing. I want the old Jenny back....
Cipher7 VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.26 03:21:00 - [114] "Balance" does not mean every ship is possible to beat with every other ship. "Balance" means every ship has a role in fleet combat. Yes a big expensive ship with a 50 mil SP pilot should be a powerhouse in battle. Otherwise there is no point in advancing beyond t1 frigates, just bring a frigate blob and manhandle Dreads and Moms.
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics SOUL CARTEL	Posted - 2007.11.26 04:13:00 - [115] i have said in a few older posts before that command ships are nothign liek what their meant to be, they are meant to be ships that give gang bonus's and can take a bit of a pounding, instead they are simply better versions of HAC's in every way. Command ships should be nerfed so they can only field utility modules in their highslots or small weaponry, if not they should be renamed to what they currently are, "Heavy Assault BattleCruisers". Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
Riga Mortiss	Posted - 2007.11.26 04:44:00 - [116] Command Ships are powerfull.. but don't forget .. it takes a LONG time to train for.. and it's expensive.. so it should be Uber.. that being said. Command ships get smoked all the time. One on one a command ship should win against ships of similar size.. and even BS's. But they are very killable if you have a good fit and know how to fly.
E Vile Fifth Exiled Legion SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.26 11:27:00 - [117] Originally by: Xtro 2 i have said in a few older posts before that command ships are nothign liek what their meant to be, they are meant to be ships that give gang bonus's and can take a bit of a pounding, instead they are simply better versions of HAC's in every way. Command ships should be nerfed so they can only field utility modules in their highslots or small weaponry, if not they should be renamed to what they currently are, "Heavy Assault BattleCruisers". Umm there are 2 types of command ships. Field and fleet. 1 type is already ment for what you cry for. Learn the game. Commands are far from overpowered. They take a buttload of skills to train for, and cost a pretty penny. Infact I think my nighthawk needs a 7th launcher to put it in line with the other commands of the same class. You nerf crybabies make me sick.
E Vile Fifth Exiled Legion SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.26 11:34:00 - [118] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Scott, it is called balanced. A balanced game is a good game in my honest opinion. :) Every ship is not ment to be equal. Drop your balance fantasy. Thats why Command ships take tons more skills then the T1 verson. Balanced game? What do you want 1 ship everyone flies using the same weapon? Should a Titan now be nerfd to be equal to a merlin?
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.26 11:56:00 - [119] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire ... a bit overpowered and imbalanced? I am asking fellow pilots of this honest and noble community because I feel command ships are overpowered and imbalanced. I have heard and seen most pilots who are successful in their combat engagements usually have better kill : death ratio when they are flying command ships. If they fly non-command ships then their death : kill ratio would be higher. What do you community think, are my observations accurate and precise? Please tell me your success stories with command ships. Considering their price, skill requirements and how vulnerable some of them are to different factors, no. A t2 fitted BS can literally ***most commands out there. Most have some aspects that could be considered overpowered, but they are negated by other aspects, like price or a inherent problem of the setups. For instance, Astarte can do a crapload of DPS, but if it is setup to do a crapload of DPS, it is really very easy to break. Sleipnir has good tank and good dps but has 2 problems. 1 - always fire in falloff which means around 60% hits, rest are misses, and 2 - if it gets webbed, it's toast as it cannot carry a web of it's own. Absolution cannot webb, because it is usually dual MAR II fitted and you cannot sustain those and the repps with your cap recharge even if you have CCC rigs and dedicating a low for CPR's is not an option. Also because of it's problems, a smart oponent will go in and out of it's gun's optimal if he uses conflag m - when ppl do this it really **es me off. Nighthawk is OK, you can do 600 dps with it. If there is one thing that could be overpowered about it, is it's passive tank. It can be customized and it is easily the only Command ship that can easily do all level 4 missions, with a standard T2 tank and still do them in a reasonable ammount of time. This IS overpowered. Rifter is not X-Wing CCP. Trinity model kinda sucks.
Bellicose Gallente Beets and Gravy Syndicate Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.11.26 12:08:00 - [120] isent this bashing of Jenny Spitfire getting old seriously ? its like the old days when sirmolle showed up in a tread saying hey iam molle and 5-10 pages of flames where insured too lazy to resize signature clicky clicky instead
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics SOUL CARTEL	Posted - 2007.11.26 12:12:00 - [121] Originally by: E Vile Originally by: Xtro 2 i have said in a few older posts before that command ships are nothign liek what their meant to be, they are meant to be ships that give gang bonus's and can take a bit of a pounding, instead they are simply better versions of HAC's in every way. Command ships should be nerfed so they can only field utility modules in their highslots or small weaponry, if not they should be renamed to what they currently are, "Heavy Assault BattleCruisers". Umm there are 2 types of command ships. Field and fleet. 1 type is already ment for what you cry for. Learn the game. Commands are far from overpowered. They take a buttload of skills to train for, and cost a pretty penny. Infact I think my nighthawk needs a 7th launcher to put it in line with the other commands of the same class. You nerf crybabies make me sick. 2 types there may be, but every man and his dog knows us pirates use command ships to kill people rather than their intended uses, with either command ship present, what exactly are hac's for? Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.11.26 12:14:00 - [122] Originally by: Setana Manoro Nighthawk is OK, you can do 600 dps with it. 600dps? so what sort of faction gear/imps u got fitted? With a standard T2 setup there is no way u can reach 600dps on a NH (sadly i may add hahahahahaa) CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Reacz Caldari Empirius Enigmus Navy	Posted - 2007.11.26 12:32:00 - [123] Although CS imo aren't overpowered, its actually funny to see HACs selling for more than CS, so should we nerf HACs instead? :o Eos: 90 - 100 mil Vulture: 80 - 90 mil Ishtar: 110 - 120mil Vagabond: 120 - 130mil I know which of these I'd rather be flying. Yeah, I guess you could say that these two are the discrepencies because the Astarte, Nighthawk etc regulary sell for 200mil+ and the two HACs above are two of the most used in speed gangs. Anyway, no CS are not 'overpowered' imo. The Eos was overpowered, whatever anyone says. The 'nerf' hasn't destroyed the ship, because its price is quite low, so in relative terms you're still getting a kickass ship for less than a Mega/Raven or whatever. The same can be said for the Vulture which pwns everything. (Although why CCP decided to add a fifth turret slot to the Eagle and not add another to the Vulture is beyond me). Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected])
Scott Ryder Infestation. The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2007.11.26 12:41:00 - [124] Edited by: Scott Ryder on 26/11/2007 12:41:55 Originally by: Reacz Although CS imo aren't overpowered, its actually funny to see HACs selling for more than CS, so should we nerf HACs instead? :o Why do we need to nerf stuff all the time, cant we just play the game. If it aint broke, dont fix it. At least get your facts before you nerf signatures, You just removed the picture of a dead Santa, and not the text where he was told to just pay the ransom, and THEN it was eve related

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