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fuer0n
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
74
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Posted - 2012.02.17 16:20:00 -
[61] - Quote
fuer0n wrote:gabe gave me a halo:P the fat bastard.
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Artreju Woodsparrow
Ocean Eleven Eleven Signs Network
21
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Posted - 2012.02.17 16:45:00 -
[62] - Quote
Misanthra wrote:Artreju Woodsparrow wrote:Why is it grind for u ? i cant get ur point.
because some people have lives. Why we like eve the way it is. Rl goes on and takes away game time, our training goes on. At an equal rate with everyone else with our stats. Just don't want to raid it on friday night for hours on end you don't have to. You lose out on isk and a no life is not power grinding to move ahead faster Eve is simple....you grind for isk. have enough isk to be happy, stop playing it if you want. Spend time with the family, go out and get a piece of ass or drunk....or hell both for for a really good night. Nice system really. I am at work now for after hours support. Back in iceland repair systems 5 has jsut fininshed training for me and freq modulation 4 is starting. No interaction on my part..it jsut flows man. Meanwhile on a west coast server for TOR....my sith assassin is sitting on his skinny little ass doing jack **** since no grind tonight as I support a vtc with the east side of the US (I work in japan) . Not even in a cantina to get rested xp.....pita mission I am knee deep in and don't want to start at the begining of the complex. Stuff like this is why I and many others came to eve.
Heya
my idea was getting Archievements w/o any Reward just some things u can do, where u get a nice Bio entry and a Medal for honor nothing more. I#m a Archievement Hunter i dont wanna SP for that, just some nice thing i can do while waiting for another finishing Skill. in my fplay time after Work i dont wanna do Missions every day (no pvp i hate it in EvE ^^) but hey nvm no one forces u to do this if it ever will be implemented ^^. u can do them otr not. SP for Missions would be for 23,5/7 gamer ideal but not for the casual players so i dont support this.Just to make it clear
My suggested idea have nothing to to with grind, that why i wrote this statement.
I have a German Thread about Archievement if anyone wanna post a Comment. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=69866&find=unread
k r |
fuer0n
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
74
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 16:46:00 -
[63] - Quote
Artreju Woodsparrow wrote:Misanthra wrote:Artreju Woodsparrow wrote:Why is it grind for u ? i cant get ur point.
because some people have lives. Why we like eve the way it is. Rl goes on and takes away game time, our training goes on. At an equal rate with everyone else with our stats. Just don't want to raid it on friday night for hours on end you don't have to. You lose out on isk and a no life is not power grinding to move ahead faster Eve is simple....you grind for isk. have enough isk to be happy, stop playing it if you want. Spend time with the family, go out and get a piece of ass or drunk....or hell both for for a really good night. Nice system really. I am at work now for after hours support. Back in iceland repair systems 5 has jsut fininshed training for me and freq modulation 4 is starting. No interaction on my part..it jsut flows man. Meanwhile on a west coast server for TOR....my sith assassin is sitting on his skinny little ass doing jack **** since no grind tonight as I support a vtc with the east side of the US (I work in japan) . Not even in a cantina to get rested xp.....pita mission I am knee deep in and don't want to start at the begining of the complex. Stuff like this is why I and many others came to eve. Heya my idea was getting Archievements w/o any Reward just some things u can do, where u get a nice Bio entry and a Medal for honor nothing more. I#m a Archievement Hunter i dont wanna SP for that, just some nice thing i can do while waiting for another finishing Skill. in my fplay time after Work i dont wanna do Missions every day (no pvp i hate it in EvE ^^) but hey nvm no one forces u to do this if it ever will be implemented ^^. u can do them otr not. SP for Missions would be for 23,5/7 gamer ideal but not for the casual players so i dont support this.Just to make it clear My suggested idea have nothing to to with grind, that why i wrote this statement. I have a German Thread about Archievement if anyone wanna post a Comment. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=69866&find=unread k r
lol |
Artreju Woodsparrow
Ocean Eleven Eleven Signs Network
21
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Posted - 2012.02.17 16:49:00 -
[64] - Quote
Omg i should check my sentences more often ^^.....
btw why "lol" |
fuer0n
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
74
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Posted - 2012.02.17 16:52:00 -
[65] - Quote
Artreju Woodsparrow wrote:Omg i should check my sentences more often ^^..... btw why "lol"
the section 8 intrusion. gaybar into dust. wtf.
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Artreju Woodsparrow
Ocean Eleven Eleven Signs Network
21
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Posted - 2012.02.17 16:54:00 -
[66] - Quote
fuer0n wrote:Artreju Woodsparrow wrote:Omg i should check my sentences more often ^^..... btw why "lol" the section 8 intrusion. gaybar into dust. wtf.
Sry i cant get what u mean |
fuer0n
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
74
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Posted - 2012.02.17 17:03:00 -
[67] - Quote
Artreju Woodsparrow wrote:Omg i should check my sentences more often ^^..... btw why "lol"
. |
Artreju Woodsparrow
Ocean Eleven Eleven Signs Network
21
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Posted - 2012.02.17 17:05:00 -
[68] - Quote
must be difficult to write complete sentences to make an answer.... |
fuer0n
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
74
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Posted - 2012.02.17 17:07:00 -
[69] - Quote
rachel................. |
fuer0n
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
74
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Posted - 2012.02.17 17:15:00 -
[70] - Quote
Artreju Woodsparrow wrote:must be difficult to write complete sentences to make an answer....
talk to me in numbers. tickle me.
edit and **** you all. i forgot to add that:P |
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Artreju Woodsparrow
Ocean Eleven Eleven Signs Network
21
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Posted - 2012.02.17 17:18:00 -
[71] - Quote
still didnt get it .... |
fuer0n
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
74
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Posted - 2012.02.17 17:20:00 -
[72] - Quote
ah well. |
fuer0n
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
74
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Posted - 2012.02.17 17:28:00 -
[73] - Quote
unreal engine should be by now what some individuals can pro at. pro fail. |
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
12
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Posted - 2012.02.17 20:22:00 -
[74] - Quote
This is a response to Arafelis in this thread, hereGÇÖs a link: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=810893#post810893
There are several reasons to not keep attribute implants and remaps, while the sole reason I can see for keeping attribute implants would be the effects on the economy, especially since implants are a huge part of the loyalty point stores. First IGÇÖd like to address what I perceive as the effects on newbies and why it does not benefit them. I have played in nearly one-and-a-half year. That is not a long time, but it is enough for me to have accumulated some wealth and some experience in the game. It has enabled me to familiarise me with several tools that are commonly viewed as essential for the smooth EVE experience, such as EVEMon and fitting tools. I started a new character some months back with the GÇ£Power of TwoGÇ¥-sale, and the first I did with that character was to train Cybernetics 4 and get the character +4 implants across the board. The fact that I can assist a new character this way (Whether itGÇÖs my own or not) means that the new players who have a benefactor and a tutor will most likely be ahead of players who do not have a tutor GÇô but I do not think anyone can disagree when I say that those needing help the most are those without tutors. Adding to this is that a new player will most likely not know about attribute implants or attribute remaps, and either not use them or use them through random chance. And as we know, random chance in EVE often means setbacks and grief. Furthermore, some veteran players, dubbed GÇ£bittervetsGÇ¥, have hit the wall where it becomes pointless to train on that character from the players viewpoint. He or she might already have Carrier 5 and Titan 5, and cannot find any racial ship that is not flown perfectly, as well as any pirate faction ship that includes the chosen race. Or he or she might have perfected every mining and industrial skill that is even remotely applicable in the chosen field. With the perceived lack of any direction to progress in, the game might become boring and players leave until the next ship is released. As such, implants and remaps does not help newbies to catch up, but rather helps established players catch up percentwise to veterans quicker. At the same time, it shortens the time before veteran players risk being transformed into bittervets. I think a better system can be conceived to handle this than the currently implemented, for example giving a slight boost in SP accumulation as long as you have below a fixed number of SP, and then the bonus lessens as you get more SP until it is fully removed. An example in numbers could be +10% SP/hour until your first million SP, and then reducing the bonus until 0% bonus at 2 million SP.
This, however, will probably only treat what I believe is the symptom of the problems: Newbies does often not feel appreciated and feel that when they try to compete with players that have hundreds or thousands times their SP, they are naturally left short of methods to hold their own in these competitions. Some of these methods can be accounted for solely through SP (Such as industrial production, where a character with Production Efficiency 5 could break even or gain profits with a production that a newbie without Production Efficiency cannot sustain), a mixture of skills and SP (Such as being able to use tech2 modules to greater benefit because of familiarisation with your own and the opponents ship in PvP) or solely skills (Such as knowledge of game-mechanics or warfare). Though the limits in PvP (Either small-scale/piracy, mid-scale or large-scale/sov-war) are less defined because numbers count in another way (And because a Rifter takes very short time to learn to fly and there is always a need of tacklers), they are still there. This is what I perceive as the real problem: That newbies cannot compete as well and because they canGÇÖt compete as well they are worth less. It is a part of how the game is built, however, that the veteran with Racial Battleship 5 and tech2 guns will outperform the newbie with Racial Battleship 2 and tech1 guns. I donGÇÖt see any solution to this that wouldnGÇÖt fall into one of two traps: a) failing to address the problem or b) make time spent training meaningless. IGÇÖd love to discuss possible solutions because, as I said a page earlier, I am aware that the full picture eludes me. I can see these problems with how the system functions, but at the same time I am fully convinced that the system works a lot better than any system based on ingame grind. |
Mashie Saldana
Veto. Veto Corp
408
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 11:55:00 -
[75] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:I think a better system can be conceived to handle this than the currently implemented, for example giving a slight boost in SP accumulation as long as you have below a fixed number of SP, and then the bonus lessens as you get more SP until it is fully removed. An example in numbers could be +10% SP/hour until your first million SP, and then reducing the bonus until 0% bonus at 2 million SP. Been there, done that. For a few years we had 100% speed boost up until 1.6m SP and nearly everyone used that to grind the learning skills.
Why is it such a rush to get a crapload of SP to start with anyways? EVE is about the journey, not the destination.
Also I had a blast flying interceptors for the first 18 months in game. Dominique Vasilkovsky Mashie Saldana Monica Foulkes |
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
12
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Posted - 2012.02.19 12:05:00 -
[76] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote: Been there, done that. For a few years we had 100% speed boost up until 1.6m SP and nearly everyone used that to grind the learning skills.
Why is it such a rush to get a crapload of SP to start with anyways? EVE is about the journey, not the destination.
Also I had a blast flying interceptors for the first 18 months in game.
Yes, and it was removed along with the learning skills, since the learning skills did not make a lot of sense.
Does this mean you agree with the rest I wrote, or is it common tactic to nitpick? |
Mashie Saldana
Veto. Veto Corp
408
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 20:36:00 -
[77] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote: Been there, done that. For a few years we had 100% speed boost up until 1.6m SP and nearly everyone used that to grind the learning skills.
Why is it such a rush to get a crapload of SP to start with anyways? EVE is about the journey, not the destination.
Also I had a blast flying interceptors for the first 18 months in game.
Yes, and it was removed along with the learning skills, since the learning skills did not make a lot of sense. Does this mean you agree with the rest I wrote, or is it common tactic to nitpick? Please read the second line in my reply. Dominique Vasilkovsky Mashie Saldana Monica Foulkes |
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
12
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Posted - 2012.02.19 21:47:00 -
[78] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:Please read the second line in my reply. Yes, that does indeed answer the portion of my post that you originally quoted. I'll restate: "Does this mean you agree with the rest I wrote, or is it common tactic to nitpick?" |
Kyshonuba
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.02.19 23:52:00 -
[79] - Quote
I think the thread is now a bit off topic, because its about ONLINE-ACTVITY-SP-BOOST and not about learning skills, nor beginner sp boost. Looks like most players are thinking, that rewarding missions or PvP with skill points is the way to make Eve a classical MMO grind game.
But this is only true if is Skill point surplus is linked to game objectives like missions suceed or ship kills. ...... instead a higher SP-rate of 20% can be very well assembled to only online Eve characters. So we have
1. Main characters who are online and have 120% skill point gain 2. Main characters who are offline and have 100% skill point gain 3. Alt characters with 0% skill point gain
I dont have any trouble with current EVE SP system but it may be true that (especially for new players, who cannot make millions of isk per hour) the current system doesnt reward online activity enough. |
Mashie Saldana
Veto. Veto Corp
408
|
Posted - 2012.02.20 00:21:00 -
[80] - Quote
And I repeat, why do we need to gain SP faster? Dominique Vasilkovsky Mashie Saldana Monica Foulkes |
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Kyshonuba
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.20 00:52:00 -
[81] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:And I repeat, why do we need to gain SP faster?
Yes Mashie, online-activity can be influenced by other means too (game events, game content etc.) .... and thats maybe why we wont see any changes like the ones we discussed in this thread. |
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
13
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 06:19:00 -
[82] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:And I repeat, why do we need to gain SP faster? Ah, okay. It's alright, you don't have to get defensive or anything, you're not alone in not being able to comprehend a piece of text as soon as it exceeds four lines. It is quite normal for people on the internet. I will help you out though, so we can get over this little misunderstanding and because I am such a friendly person.
The line right beneath the piece of text you managed to quote reads:
Quote:This, however, will probably only treat what I believe is the symptom of the problems:
Are you understanding where we are in the text, or do I have to explain it further in depth? |
Mashie Saldana
Veto. Veto Corp
409
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 00:24:00 -
[83] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:This is what I perceive as the real problem: That newbies cannot compete as well and because they canGÇÖt compete as well they are worth less. It is a part of how the game is built, however, that the veteran with Racial Battleship 5 and tech2 guns will outperform the newbie with Racial Battleship 2 and tech1 guns. I donGÇÖt see any solution to this that wouldnGÇÖt fall into one of two traps: a) failing to address the problem or b) make time spent training meaningless. IGÇÖd love to discuss possible solutions because, as I said a page earlier, I am aware that the full picture eludes me. I can see these problems with how the system functions, but at the same time I am fully convinced that the system works a lot better than any system based on ingame grind. I don't see a problem to start with, EVE is about the journey, not the destination. If anything, the journey has been messed up with how easy it is to go straight to a badly skilled BC and completely skip a few ship classes. Dominique Vasilkovsky Mashie Saldana Monica Foulkes |
CausticS0da
Viziam Amarr Empire
51
|
Posted - 2012.02.26 21:30:00 -
[84] - Quote
May you die of Space AIDS for suggesting such a thing. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
343
|
Posted - 2012.02.26 22:23:00 -
[85] - Quote
Holy ****, this thread is still going?
Kyshonuba wrote:Looks like most players are thinking, that rewarding missions or PvP with skill points is the way to make Eve a classical MMO grind game.
Probably because it, you know, would. So can we at least drop that point entirely from hence forth?
Kyshonuba wrote:But this is only true if is Skill point surplus is linked to game objectives like missions suceed or ship kills. ...... instead a higher SP-rate of 20% can be very well assembled to only online Eve characters. So we have
1. Main characters who are online and have 120% skill point gain 2. Main characters who are offline and have 100% skill point gain 3. Alt characters with 0% skill point gain
I dont have any trouble with current EVE SP system but it may be true that (especially for new players, who cannot make millions of isk per hour) the current system doesnt reward online activity enough.
Umm. How does this help anything? This system simply breaks EVE players into two classes: those with persistent desktop connections and those without. If you have a persistent connection, you can idle all day and night doing nothing -- and get an extra 20% SP?
And I'll openly admit, I'm biased here: I primarily play from a laptop that can't stay online 23.5/7. So I'd be penalized for not having actual, tangible, real-world infrastructure. (And remember, penalized is indeed the correct term here because holding a subset of players back from optimal SP/hour for completely arbitrary reasons is indeed a penalty and not a boon.) |
Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2012.02.26 23:11:00 -
[86] - Quote
Ziever Stormcloak wrote:Anyone else think it would be a nice idea if there was a small skill point gain by playing as well as the current system? like you still gain the same skill points over time, I mean the current system is cool and all, but what about also giving people more skill points for things like Destroying ships/completing missions and just have like 10+ skill points based on what kind of ship you Destroy added to whatever skill your currently learning and maybe like 100 or more for completing a mission, with the increase based on the level of mission added onto you current skill as well. The learning over time can stay, but it would be nice to get an increase for playing more, even mining perhaps could give a skill point bonus every cycle on your lasers calculated by how much you mined and perhaps what you mined. Anybody have any comments? like this idea? don't like this idea? better ideas?
No. Some folk can not play all the time, why should they be penalized? |
Piatora
Nagrom Security Syndicate Flatline.
111
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 17:47:00 -
[87] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Holy ****, this thread is still going? (And remember, penalized is indeed the correct term here because holding a subset of players back from optimal SP/hour for completely arbitrary reasons is indeed a penalty and not a boon.)
Then how come you were never up in arms about removing stat points/stat implants? Don't get me wrong, this idea is beyond stupid, but if you want to have no-one be penalized and not getting optimal SP/HR then do away with stats, stat implants, neural remaps. Make every skill a fixed train length and be done with the whole optimal min/maxxing which is ruining things.
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Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope Gallente Federation
179
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 23:31:00 -
[88] - Quote
The trouble with this idea is that competitive people are so constituted that eventually they will feel they HAVE to log on to maximize skill rate.
IOW, it would be sort of like Learning Skills all over again. Something that ought theoretically to be optional, would eventually become de rigueur, and a source of great grind, and therefore great whineage.
There are many, many potentially cool things from the point of view of simulation, that can't be in MMOs because people would either feel obliged to do them or would exploit them. |
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