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Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.27 12:32:00 - [31] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Zhecao Vai Edited by: Zhecao Vai on 27/11/2007 11:43:48 Originally by: Semkhet P.S. Not only unbonused launchers. The whole picture is (solo, maxed skills): unbonused launchers on a ceptor with a pathetic locking range, what obliges the ship to FIGHT & SCRAM under 27500 meters, at the mercy of every overheated EAS web. The crow: dual bonused launchers, can fight from under 37500 meters and scram starting under 30 Km. Oh, so now we're putting 200M warp disruptors on our Crow but we can't even put a sensor booster on our Malediction? Anyway, if you're aching over 50 DPS vs 30 DPS on your interceptor, maybe you should just fly a Kestrel and do 80 instead. Well, the malediction will with a base T2 distruptor, be able to distrupt all the way to its locking range with the new bonuses for tackling interceptors (something the Crow does NOT get). At any rate, if I just wanted a tackler, I'd go for the Malediction (faster warp speed, will have better distruptor range post-patch, can go in webrange if required of it to risk it, cheaper to lose when you do something risky). If I wanted a short-range ceptor with rockets which can in dire need reach out to 15-16km with javs, I'd go for a Malediction. If I wanted to pimp a interceptor and shoot at things from 24km range and put in hyper-expensive implants to get to absurd speeds, I'd go for a crow, obviously. I dont know why I keep seeing this about rockets. They can hit up to 29km with javelin rockets, not 15-16km. Where do people get these numbers from?
Zhecao Vai Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.27 12:35:00 - [32] Edited by: Zhecao Vai on 27/11/2007 12:38:52 Originally by: Leon 026 Not sure what you're trying to tell me here. If its about the "upgrading the T1 to T2, along with possible modifications to the "wildcard" 3rd medslot. Adding a web allows it to hold down fast moving targets and assist in gate-tackles" then that was in reference to the OP. Well, I said, in response to the Malediction fitting with T2 launchers, cap recharger, and PDS: Originally by: Zhecao Vai A Crow with Arbalests and speed mods goes about 6.3km/s and does more damage thanks to the bonus. If you're going to use a Malediction the only reason is because it's faster and warps faster (very good reasons, at that) - but throwing that away by fitting a PDS is laughable. You responded: Originally by: Leon 026 ....and said Crow setup is unable to kill anything flying above 4km/s. On the other hand, said malediction setup is able to tackle (ie what its designed for) more efficiently and at longer ranges without having to invest large sums of isk. What needs tweaking is upgrading the T1 to T2, along with possible modifications to the "wildcard" 3rd medslot. Adding a web allows it to hold down fast moving targets and assist in gate-tackles. There were exactly two differences between a cookie-cutter Crow setup and the Malediction setup in the first post, besides the small differences in the natural stats of the ships, which have been well-covered. - The Crow is about 500m/s faster. - The Malediction has T2 launchers instead of best-named. (It still does a lot less damage than the Crow thanks to the damage bonus, so the only advantage here is T2 missiles.) When you criticized the Crow setup as being "unable to kill anything flying above 4km/s" I assumed that you were saying it was important to be able to fit a full set of T2 launchers (since precision lights could hit faster ships, although you are exaggerating on that one since normal light missiles hit for reasonable damage up to about 6km/s, not 4km/s), and it was worth sacrificing a big chunk of speed for said T2 launchers. I disagree that it is worth sacrificing a speed mod for them because the DPS increase from T2 launchers is just a tiny little one and because loading precisions on an interceptor is almost always impractical anyway.
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.11.27 12:36:00 - [33] Originally by: Zhecao Vai Edited by: Zhecao Vai on 27/11/2007 11:43:48 Originally by: Semkhet P.S. Not only unbonused launchers. The whole picture is (solo, maxed skills): unbonused launchers on a ceptor with a pathetic locking range, what obliges the ship to FIGHT & SCRAM under 27500 meters, at the mercy of every overheated EAS web. The crow: dual bonused launchers, can fight from under 37500 meters and scram starting under 30 Km. Oh, so now we're putting 200M warp disruptors on our Crow but we can't even put a sensor booster on our Malediction? Anyway, if you're aching over 50 DPS vs 30 DPS on your interceptor, maybe you should just fly a Kestrel and do 80 instead. Sure a Malediction can put a sensor booster: in that nifty med screwing the webber . Kestrel ? Yeah, try to traverse or escape bubbles with Kestrels
Phoenicia Black Sea Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.27 12:36:00 - [34] I was really just inquiring why the Malediction is not seen as a 'viable alternative' to the Crow and it's popularity-induced 10-15 mil pricetag. That's all... cries in a corner
Zhecao Vai Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.27 12:37:00 - [35] Edited by: Zhecao Vai on 27/11/2007 12:37:04 Originally by: Phoenicia I was really just inquiring why the Malediction is not seen as a 'viable alternative' to the Crow and it's popularity-induced 10-15 mil pricetag. That's all... cries in a corner The answer is that it is. Loads of people fly them instead of Crows and more people will fly them instead of Crows after Trinity.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.27 12:37:00 - [36] Originally by: Diomidis So what's this topic turning into? The winner of a 1vs1 between a crow and a malediction? For scouting and tackling both par almost equal - even post patch...the Amarr one is a tad faster, the crow is a bit ganger...so what? If you fly amarr and wanna kill a crow solo, perhaps a Crusader should be a better bet. Just remember: ceptors where never meant to be dealed as dmg dealers P.S. Can't you see that for this "secondary" role the Malediction can actually fit SMLs? Yeah, unbonuced yet still highly effective against a frig or not heavily tanked T1 cruiser...so stop thinking the malediction as "close range only"... Yeah a crusader is a good crow killer. Crow cant harm it but sader sure can hit the crow. Even a malediction would beat a crow I dare say. Maledic will outtank the crow once they are in webrange even if the crow has a bit more dps.
Phoenicia Black Sea Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.27 12:38:00 - [37] Originally by: Zhecao Vai The answer is that it is. Loads of people fly them instead of Crows and more people will fly them instead of Crows after Trinity. Th.... Thanks... crawls out of corner while wiping snot on sleeve
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.27 12:39:00 - [38] Originally by: Phoenicia I was really just inquiring why the Malediction is not seen as a 'viable alternative' to the Crow and it's popularity-induced 10-15 mil pricetag. That's all... cries in a corner People havent realized it yet. Malediction will sex up the place after the patch.
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.11.27 12:39:00 - [39] Originally by: Cpt Branko If I wanted to pimp a interceptor and shoot at things from 24km range and put in hyper-expensive implants to get to absurd speeds, I'd go for a crow, obviously. You mean "absurd speed" approximately a 1/4 of what CCP has rendered attainable ingame ?
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.11.27 12:41:00 - [40] Originally by: Phoenicia I was really just inquiring why the Malediction is not seen as a 'viable alternative' to the Crow and it's popularity-induced 10-15 mil pricetag. That's all... cries in a corner The Malediction is a very good ceptor if you care about money. The Crow is the best ceptor if you don't care about money. But the funniest thing is that I believe that the Malediction can be set up to specifically hunt pimped Crows like no other ceptor can

Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.27 13:02:00 - [41] Originally by: Semkhet Originally by: Phoenicia I was really just inquiring why the Malediction is not seen as a 'viable alternative' to the Crow and it's popularity-induced 10-15 mil pricetag. That's all... cries in a corner The Malediction is a very good ceptor if you care about money. The Crow is the best ceptor if you don't care about money. But the funniest thing is that I believe that the Malediction can be set up to specifically hunt pimped Crows like no other ceptor can Crows are terrible at shooting other inties. So it kinda depends on what you wanna do yea? But tbh you can do pretty much everything in one fit with a malediction. Anti inty, long range tackler, web tackler etc.
Monticore D'Muertos Caldari United Society Starfleet	Posted - 2007.11.27 13:19:00 - [42] my set up on sis lately for a crow 3x t2 standars, 1x 150mm ac2 t2 mwd/t2web/t2scram 2x od 1x pdu 2x poly(7km/s with aux/nano) rogues + zor's 8500m/s maxed cap skills/max fitting skills, prop jamming 5, it can perma run mwd/scram. i could remove the ac and pdu for another speed mod but the extra dps is nice vs other crows , and the web is almost a neccecity ina 1 vs 1 to do any dmg to a ceptor going 6km plus
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.27 16:03:00 - [43] Originally by: Monticore D'Muertos my set up on sis lately for a crow 3x t2 standars, 1x 150mm ac2 t2 mwd/t2web/t2scram 2x od 1x pdu 2x poly(7km/s with aux/nano) rogues + zor's 8500m/s maxed cap skills/max fitting skills, prop jamming 5, it can perma run mwd/scram. i could remove the ac and pdu for another speed mod but the extra dps is nice vs other crows , and the web is almost a neccecity ina 1 vs 1 to do any dmg to a ceptor going 6km plus Let me ask you this. You set up a crow like stated above. How often do you go engage interceptors in it with the web and all?
Almarez Setenta Corp Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.11.27 16:53:00 - [44] Possibly because the Crow has missile velocity bonus so can stay out of web range and still lock down a hostile. A Malediction can do this with T2 rockets but there are significant penalties. And it's easier to fit standard launchers on a crow also, if you didn't want to do rockets. FREE STONY Brought to you by the Free Stony Foundation. Saving a Stony near you. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.27 17:21:00 - [45] Originally by: Almarez Possibly because the Crow has missile velocity bonus so can stay out of web range and still lock down a hostile. A Malediction can do this with T2 rockets but there are significant penalties. And it's easier to fit standard launchers on a crow also, if you didn't want to do rockets. The thing is, yeah javelin rockets easily get 20+km range but they give you a speed penalty. When do you not go into web range with a malediction? When you tackle big ships. You can easily speed tank missiles, drones and turrets even with the javelin penalty. When its inty hunting time, you just load the normal rockets and go for that web range. I dont really see the huge advantage of the crow. Yea it does a bit more dps, a bit. Its not like precision light missiles can hit anything fast anyways.
Ethyn Caldari Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.27 17:24:00 - [46] Originally by: Semkhet Edited by: Semkhet on 27/11/2007 13:06:48 This is the setup I'm testing on SiSi, it's hilarious: highs: 3x arbalest with CN gremlin rockets, small DB nos meds: Gistii-A MWD, Fleeting disruptor, Fleeting web lows: nanofiber T2, Domi OD, N-type kin hardener rigs: 2xpolycarbs. = 15 Km/sec in gang (without heat nor claymore bonuses). Still manages to orbit at over 5 Km/sec below 6500 meters if orbit set at 500 meters. Pwns a pimped crow in half the time the crow needs to do the same. Any ceptor can go fast. Especially if you pimp it out. I do 16 k/s before gang bonus in a sader. (23 k/s w/ gang and clays) I see no reason why a Crow could not achieve similar results. In this case, how would you even catch a crow to kill it? I'll be honest with you while I'm flying a ceptor, the least of my concerns are oher ceptors. I'm worried about Huggins and huggins alone. To die by anything else is just loosing focus on the inty pilot's part. (even dying to a huggin is as well but huggins are just so evil to ceptors) Even still if you need 15 k/s to catch a inty, you will prolly be locked in a battle of getting close enough to him to web. At those speeds there is too much room to over shoot your mark. If you need that speed to catch an inty, you must likely wont catch him. Speeds like that are good for few things. Escaping, and ****ing people off. GO Fast or Die!
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.27 17:33:00 - [47] Originally by: Ethyn Originally by: Semkhet Edited by: Semkhet on 27/11/2007 13:06:48 This is the setup I'm testing on SiSi, it's hilarious: highs: 3x arbalest with CN gremlin rockets, small DB nos meds: Gistii-A MWD, Fleeting disruptor, Fleeting web lows: nanofiber T2, Domi OD, N-type kin hardener rigs: 2xpolycarbs. = 15 Km/sec in gang (without heat nor claymore bonuses). Still manages to orbit at over 5 Km/sec below 6500 meters if orbit set at 500 meters. Pwns a pimped crow in half the time the crow needs to do the same. Any ceptor can go fast. Especially if you pimp it out. I do 16 k/s before gang bonus in a sader. (23 k/s w/ gang and clays) I see no reason why a Crow could not achieve similar results. In this case, how would you even catch a crow to kill it? I'll be honest with you while I'm flying a ceptor, the least of my concerns are oher ceptors. I'm worried about Huggins and huggins alone. To die by anything else is just loosing focus on the inty pilot's part. (even dying to a huggin is as well but huggins are just so evil to ceptors) Even still if you need 15 k/s to catch a inty, you will prolly be locked in a battle of getting close enough to him to web. At those speeds there is too much room to over shoot your mark. If you need that speed to catch an inty, you must likely wont catch him. Speeds like that are good for few things. Escaping, and ***ing people off. Can i enter your GFOD guild? * Nice hamster! - Mindstar Sorry, that hamster ate your sig.. - Random Guy123
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.11.27 18:33:00 - [48] Edited by: Semkhet on 27/11/2007 18:35:10 Originally by: Ethyn Originally by: Semkhet Edited by: Semkhet on 27/11/2007 13:06:48 This is the setup I'm testing on SiSi, it's hilarious: highs: 3x arbalest with CN gremlin rockets, small DB nos meds: Gistii-A MWD, Fleeting disruptor, Fleeting web lows: nanofiber T2, Domi OD, N-type kin hardener rigs: 2xpolycarbs. = 15 Km/sec in gang (without heat nor claymore bonuses). Still manages to orbit at over 5 Km/sec below 6500 meters if orbit set at 500 meters. Pwns a pimped crow in half the time the crow needs to do the same. Any ceptor can go fast. Especially if you pimp it out. I do 16 k/s before gang bonus in a sader. (23 k/s w/ gang and clays) I see no reason why a Crow could not achieve similar results. In this case, how would you even catch a crow to kill it? I'll be honest with you while I'm flying a ceptor, the least of my concerns are oher ceptors. I'm worried about Huggins and huggins alone. To die by anything else is just loosing focus on the inty pilot's part. (even dying to a huggin is as well but huggins are just so evil to ceptors) Even still if you need 15 k/s to catch a inty, you will prolly be locked in a battle of getting close enough to him to web. At those speeds there is too much room to over shoot your mark. If you need that speed to catch an inty, you must likely wont catch him. Speeds like that are good for few things. Escaping, and ****ing people off. The point is simple. Snake pilots who pimp Crows (pimping meaning Gistii-A MWD + TS or Domi disruptor + Domi OD's) never consider using their ship into web range. That's why 99 % of pimp crows don't have a web either. What prevents me to use a semi-pimped Malediction exclusively to hunt full pimped Crows ? Nothing Here go the details: skills at V. Crow with CN launchers & CN bloodclaws = 81 dps. Malediction with CN launchers & CN gremlins = 67 dps. Malediction effective hp's on kinetic: Shield 528 hp at 40% KIN res = (528:60)x100 = 880 effective hp Armor 516 hp at 71.9 KIN res = (516:28,1)x100 = 1836 effective hp Structure 457 hp. Total 3173 hp. Crow effective hp's on EM: Shield 660 hp at 0% EM res = 660 hp Armor 278 hp at 60% EM res = (278:40)x100 = 695 Structure 352. Total 1707 hp. Crow dps & ROF using CN launchers: 7.2 secs, full volley of 585 dp. 3173:585 = 5,4 volleys = 6 volleys = 6 x 7.2 = 43.2 seconds to destroy the Malediction. Malediction dps & ROF, using CN launchers: 2.14 secs, full volley of 144 dp. 1707:144 = 11,85 = 12 volleys = 12 x 2.14 = 25.7 seconds to destroy the Crow. Now this assumes that the Crow is hitting the Malediction for full damage, when the Crow might get webbed by the Malediction which will be able to continue to MWD and orbit, hence speed tanking part of the damage. Even if the crow fields a web, he's still screwed due to the hp difference between both ships. And if the Malediction does not succeed to web the Crow, none of the ships can damage the other one and they will quietly break the fight and continue their respective businesses. The bottom line is that pilots with snakes dislike overcrowded environments, so getting a 1vs1 against a snaked ceptor pilot is much more common (among these snaked pilots ofc) than 1vs1 are among pilots using T2 ships... So it's a way like another to have fun and maybe make some isk
Dheorl Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.27 18:38:00 - [49] Originally by: Semkhet Edited by: Semkhet on 27/11/2007 18:35:10 Originally by: Ethyn Originally by: Semkhet Edited by: Semkhet on 27/11/2007 13:06:48 This is the setup I'm testing on SiSi, it's hilarious: highs: 3x arbalest with CN gremlin rockets, small DB nos meds: Gistii-A MWD, Fleeting disruptor, Fleeting web lows: nanofiber T2, Domi OD, N-type kin hardener rigs: 2xpolycarbs. = 15 Km/sec in gang (without heat nor claymore bonuses). Still manages to orbit at over 5 Km/sec below 6500 meters if orbit set at 500 meters. Pwns a pimped crow in half the time the crow needs to do the same. Any ceptor can go fast. Especially if you pimp it out. I do 16 k/s before gang bonus in a sader. (23 k/s w/ gang and clays) I see no reason why a Crow could not achieve similar results. In this case, how would you even catch a crow to kill it? I'll be honest with you while I'm flying a ceptor, the least of my concerns are oher ceptors. I'm worried about Huggins and huggins alone. To die by anything else is just loosing focus on the inty pilot's part. (even dying to a huggin is as well but huggins are just so evil to ceptors) Even still if you need 15 k/s to catch a inty, you will prolly be locked in a battle of getting close enough to him to web. At those speeds there is too much room to over shoot your mark. If you need that speed to catch an inty, you must likely wont catch him. Speeds like that are good for few things. Escaping, and ****ing people off. The point is simple. Snake pilots who pimp Crows (pimping meaning Gistii-A MWD + TS or Domi disruptor + Domi OD's) never consider using their ship into web range. That's why 99 % of pimp crows don't have a web either. What prevents me to use a semi-pimped Malediction exclusively to hunt full pimped Crows ? Nothing Here go the details: skills at V. Crow with CN launchers & CN bloodclaws = 81 dps. Malediction with CN launchers & CN gremlins = 67 dps. Malediction effective hp's on kinetic: Shield 528 hp at 40% KIN res = (528:60)x100 = 880 effective hp Armor 516 hp at 71.9 KIN res = (516:28,1)x100 = 1836 effective hp Structure 457 hp. Total 3173 hp. Crow effective hp's on EM: Shield 660 hp at 0% EM res = 660 hp Armor 278 hp at 60% EM res = (278:40)x100 = 695 Structure 352. Total 1707 hp. Crow dps & ROF using CN launchers: 7.2 secs, full volley of 585 dp. 3173:585 = 5,4 volleys = 6 volleys = 6 x 7.2 = 43.2 seconds to destroy the Malediction. Malediction dps & ROF, using CN launchers: 2.14 secs, full volley of 144 dp. 1707:144 = 11,85 = 12 volleys = 12 x 2.14 = 25.7 seconds to destroy the Crow. Now this assumes that the Crow is hitting the Malediction for full damage, when the Crow might get webbed by the Malediction which will be able to continue to MWD and orbit, hence speed tanking part of the damage. Even if the crow fields a web, he's still screwed due to the hp difference between both ships. And if the Malediction does not succeed to web the Crow, none of the ships can damage the other one and they will quietly break the fight and continue their respective businesses. The bottom line is that pilots with snakes dislike overcrowded environments, so getting a 1vs1 against a snaked ceptor pilot is much more common (among these snaked pilots ofc) than 1vs1 are among pilots using T2 ships... So it's a way like another to have fun and maybe make some isk The chance of you actually cathing a crow is so stupidly low that its barely worth bothering though. All you'll end up doing is spend a while chasing a crow around, he'll get bored, get out of scram/lock range and you'll be no better off.
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.11.27 18:48:00 - [50] Originally by: Dheorl The chance of you actually cathing a crow is so stupidly low that its barely worth bothering though. All you'll end up doing is spend a while chasing a crow around, he'll get bored, get out of scram/lock range and you'll be no better off. Don't think so. I've had already quite a few encounters with other equally pimped crows, and each time, we both occasionally fell into web range during all the dancing around, but neither ever has a web (what's perfectly logical on those kind of crows)

Leon 026 Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.11.27 19:55:00 - [51] Good stuff, since we got a lot more people around and I was playing devil's advocate, I'm going to switch my stance. The Crow IS a better interceptor, more specifically a dogfighter for reasons that noone have mention or think about : Range. Lets face it, none of the interceptors have nearly the same range that the crow does, and I'm not talking about some pidly 37km lock range either, I'm talking about the 63km missile range that the crow has against a stationary target. Come EAF, you're going to need that range if you're going to be taking out EAFs from long range. And as opposed to popular misconception, t2 precisions ARE worthwhile. Your current Rev II crow is unable to take out slower inties (in a pimp vs regular scenario), and will be unable to take out high speed nano'ed EAFs that will be a threat like the Hyena. I will agree that the current state of precisions are horribly underpowered and have technically recieved a stealth nerf when the i-stabs were buffed to make ZoomZoomÖ the way it is today. It doesnt change however that most average inties goes sub-6. 575 kills with the crow, of which 190 of them have been using precision light missiles. 33% of kills using precisions makes it hardly "impractical". The fact also remains that the difference between 2 speed mods and 3 speed mods makes hardly a difference when you reach 10k/s. Fast or faster, you're still flying fast enough to avoid all fire, and fast enough to have enough time to decide whether you feel like engaging that inty that is attempting to catch up. The question that should be asked more often nowadays is : how fast is too fast? Sure I can get my crow to hit about 24k+ with overload, but really, practically speaking, what is the point of that, when you're trading off a huge chunk of the crow's capability just to go fast. Besides at those speeds, more often than not in a dogfight, by the time you lock the guy, you're almost out of lock range without some serious on-the-ball maneuvering. Going back to precision missiles, in regards to speed, the speed difference between a 10k crow and a 13k one isnt enough to NOT make the t2 launchers worthwhile, unless said 13k inty has a web. But by then, any good inty pilot would decide whether to engage or not. Half the time, you can tell his setup by the way he approaches anyways. Main difference between the prec crow and regular arbalest crow, is that the prec crow has a better chance and higher likely hood of killing frigates with MWD, whether thats your average inty, AF or frig that flies at high speed. Pimp-arbalest crow vs Pimp-arbalest crow (using Rev. II generation setups), neither of them are going to kill each other, so really, what is a good reason to not fit a t2 launcher for that extra capability against non-pimp ships that t1 faction missiles cannot kill? As for sacrificing a big chunk of speed, there are ways around it, and you should be on the ball for when it comes to unloading and reloading anyways. Its not, nor should it be an autopilot click-orbit ship. ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Monticore D'Muertos Caldari United Society Starfleet	Posted - 2007.11.27 20:31:00 - [52] Edited by: Monticore D''Muertos on 27/11/2007 20:34:59 Edited by: Monticore D''Muertos on 27/11/2007 20:32:57 i don't fly a crow without a web period. the reasons and uses are quit numerous but where the crow shines over any other ceptor is the ability to use precision bloodclaws if you can fit your crow with precisions and still 5500m/s you should beat most ceptors in a 1 vs 1. yes its slower than any other ceptor you can switch abck to regular ones once you have the other ceptor on the run which will happen after 1 or 2 volleys. and a crow with a web does just fine vs a crusader ,onces he is webbed orbit at 500m . Lyria i have shot you with that exact setup on test you should be able to tell me how it does
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.11.27 21:22:00 - [53] Originally by: Leon 026 I'm talking about the 63km missile range that the crow has against a stationary target. In Rev3 with the sensor booster nerf, you won't be able to lock much further than 50 Km with a range ARM script if I'm not mistaken. Light FOF's max range is 55 Km IIRC, and their results are sometimes ambiguous... Originally by: Leon 026 what is a good reason to not fit a t2 launcher for that extra capability against non-pimp ships that t1 faction missiles cannot kill? That even in Rev3, T2 MWD+disruptor+SML only leave 1 effective PG to be used for 3 lows / 1 mid. In my current Rev2 setup I'm using a cap injector in the last mid, and sometimes a bcu in one of the lows. Add a Gistii-A MWD, and the only way to do it without using a MAPC is to field either faction or cosmos launchers. Anyhow, what we should do is try to organize a gig on SiSi and actually test all this stuff. Anyone interested ?
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.11.27 21:30:00 - [54] Originally by: Monticore D'Muertos Edited by: Monticore D''Muertos on 27/11/2007 20:34:59 Edited by: Monticore D''Muertos on 27/11/2007 20:32:57 i don't fly a crow without a web period. the reasons and uses are quit numerous but where the crow shines over any other ceptor is the ability to use precision bloodclaws if you can fit your crow with precisions and still 5500m/s you should beat most ceptors in a 1 vs 1. yes its slower than any other ceptor you can switch abck to regular ones once you have the other ceptor on the run which will happen after 1 or 2 volleys. and a crow with a web does just fine vs a crusader ,onces he is webbed orbit at 500m . Lyria i have shot you with that exact setup on test you should be able to tell me how it does I'm sorry my friend, I don't consider a ship having 2 mids a decent ceptor, no matter the race. Try to do what you are doing against a Taranis
Dheorl Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.27 22:12:00 - [55] Originally by: Semkhet Originally by: Dheorl The chance of you actually cathing a crow is so stupidly low that its barely worth bothering though. All you'll end up doing is spend a while chasing a crow around, he'll get bored, get out of scram/lock range and you'll be no better off. Don't think so. I've had already quite a few encounters with other equally pimped crows, and each time, we both occasionally fell into web range during all the dancing around, but neither ever has a web (what's perfectly logical on those kind of crows) If the guys is stupid enough to get into web range and stay there then yes you will kill him but I hope there aren't any crow pilots on tranq with setups like that who are that bad at flying their chosen ship.
Dheorl Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.27 22:15:00 - [56] Edited by: Dheorl on 27/11/2007 22:14:57
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.11.27 22:36:00 - [57] Edited by: Semkhet on 27/11/2007 22:36:59 Originally by: Dheorl If the guys is stupid enough to get into web range and stay there then yes you will kill him but I hope there aren't any crow pilots on tranq with setups like that who are that bad at flying their chosen ship. Why should we fool ourselves ? 100% control is an illusion, specially with variable lag & network conditions when both ceptors can reach 15 Km/sec or more. Besides, I've no crystal ball, there are limits to what you can predict. But I've to admit that these "falling into web range" mostly occurred in fights where we both were getting bored. Originally by: Dheorl So basically your saying either laugh as his rails can't hit you or laugh as his blasters can't hit you? Sounds like a fun fight to me. No, I'm saying that he should try to orbit a 140 dps ceptor which can actually fit a web before being so sure about the generic superiority of rocket crows. Besides, I remember very well the 1vs1 final of the PvP tournament (2005 or 2006) between BoB (SML Crow) and ASCN (rocket Crow), where the rocket crow didn't manage to score a single hit. And both pilots weren't precisely nublets nor was the fight a trivial one... So, IMHO, rocket crows are just NONO.
Dheorl Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.27 22:51:00 - [58] Originally by: Semkhet Edited by: Semkhet on 27/11/2007 22:36:59 Originally by: Dheorl If the guys is stupid enough to get into web range and stay there then yes you will kill him but I hope there aren't any crow pilots on tranq with setups like that who are that bad at flying their chosen ship. Why should we fool ourselves ? 100% control is an illusion, specially with variable lag & network conditions when both ceptors can reach 15 Km/sec or more. Besides, I've no crystal ball, there are limits to what you can predict. But I've to admit that these "falling into web range" mostly occurred in fights where we both were getting bored. Yea but what I'm saying is a decent pilot in a real fight will never get into web range long enough for you to web him and it to have any effect. Originally by: Semkhet Originally by: Dheorl So basically your saying either laugh as his rails can't hit you or laugh as his blasters can't hit you? Sounds like a fun fight to me. No, I'm saying that he should try to orbit a 140 dps ceptor which can actually fit a web before being so sure about the generic superiority of rocket crows. Besides, I remember very well the 1vs1 final of the PvP tournament (2005 or 2006) between BoB (SML Crow) and ASCN (rocket Crow), where the rocket crow didn't manage to score a single hit. And both pilots weren't precisely nublets nor was the fight a trivial one... So, IMHO, rocket crows are just NONO. I didn't notice him mention he was using rockets, I may have missed something but meh. The point is though that ranis isn't going to be doing 140dps to you because you'll either stay outside web range and its rails won't be able to track you or you'll go in to web range (if you have a web) and its blasters won't be able to hit you. I may be missing something but I'm not seeing how the ranis could win a fight against a crow, webs or no webs.
Monticore D'Muertos Caldari United Society Starfleet	Posted - 2007.11.27 23:23:00 - [59] Edited by: Monticore D''Muertos on 27/11/2007 23:25:17 Originally by: Semkhet Originally by: Monticore D'Muertos Edited by: Monticore D''Muertos on 27/11/2007 20:34:59 Edited by: Monticore D''Muertos on 27/11/2007 20:32:57 i don't fly a crow without a web period. the reasons and uses are quit numerous but where the crow shines over any other ceptor is the ability to use precision bloodclaws if you can fit your crow with precisions and still 5500m/s you should beat most ceptors in a 1 vs 1. yes its slower than any other ceptor you can switch abck to regular ones once you have the other ceptor on the run which will happen after 1 or 2 volleys. and a crow with a web does just fine vs a crusader ,onces he is webbed orbit at 500m . Lyria i have shot you with that exact setup on test you should be able to tell me how it does I'm sorry my friend, I don't consider a ship having 2 mids a decent ceptor, no matter the race. Try to do what you are doing against a Taranis well a taranis is a different story most likely i will be faster than him then its just a matter of pilot skill/lag/luck/wrong turn i have tested my set up on sisi quite abit and i do suprisingly well even vs the 10km/s crow becasue 1. they dont use precisions 2. don't fit a web. with the hyena/sentinel coming soon i feel much safer in a long range capless weapons system.
Leon 026 Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.11.27 23:33:00 - [60] Originally by: Semkhet Anyhow, what we should do is try to organize a gig on SiSi and actually test all this stuff. Anyone interested ? Once the hysteria and mass gawking on SiSi has died down sure (I'm on SiSi almost every night). I'm not too much of a fan dogfighting in situations where the crow responds 20 seconds after you try to change direction ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings



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