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Argue that the post-Trinity Raven will beat a Megathron in 1v1 fight.

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Arthur Frayn Veterans Of Liberation Ltd.	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:12:00 - [1] Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 29/11/2007 12:14:52 That's just one way of approaching the upcoming Caldari buff from a reasonable perspective. If you can argue that the Raven will out-tank and outgank a Megathron while being able to tackle it to keep it from escaping, and fit the mwd needed to keep it within torp range but outside blaster range, then you are justified in whining. Because last time I checked, the Megathron can do all those things at once and the Raven has never been able to, nor will it ever. Or please argue that the Megathron will now be obsolete in small gang warfare when its blasters score wrecking hits on webbed frigates that torpedoes would barely scratch. Someone clue me in if the sniperthron is now a thing of the past in huge fleets, because.. oh wait, missiles are sh!thouse for sniping. Scripts, you say? If any ship gets close enough that you can't hit it, I hope you have spare tracking scripts. ECM ships are getting boosted? The previously useless Scorpion is going to be worth flying again? Say it aint so! I'm trying to get a sense of perspective on the Caldari buff here. There's a "Welcome to Caldari Online" thread, for crying out loud. The patch hasn't even been deployed yet, and you French toadsuckers can't stop p!ssing and moaning. I have a theory: People have suffered so many hits of the nerfbat that any single race that gets even a slight boost is hated for it. It's a plain, simple case of: "But what about me? Why don't I get a shiny gift?". Or perhaps it's more like: "But I chose Gallente because they have the highest dps! You can't make the Raven have possibly* higher dps! Wahh!!"*. Being Gallente seems to make some people soft and lazy because they're the ones who whine. I've seen very few Caldari whiners in the past. Most of them like the roles their ships fill. Most of them will crosstrain without complaint if a different race's ship will do a better job than the one they have. Amarr players may complain, but they're justified and they often soldier on. After the nos nerf, there are plenty of Curse pilots who still swear by the uberness of their ships. I shudder to think of the crybabies who will come crawling out of the woodwork when Amarr do get the boost they need. Despite a nearly unanimous agreement across the whole eve community that Amarr are somewhat lacking, when they do finally get a boost there will be whiners complaining about "Amarr online". And they'll mostly be Gallente. -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.
Riho Northen Breeze	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:25:00 - [2] acctually.. i have a raven fit that is able to most of it. mwd, scram, buffer tank(yes it really works.... wouldnt solo in it much.. but same goes for my gank mega) now stfu whit this whine tread.. we know raven is uber now.. no need to make 20 threads about it.
ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:31:00 - [3] /start jeditalk comparisons based on 1vs1 capabilities burn your mind! /end jeditalk
josti78	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:39:00 - [4] Quote: escaping, and fit the mwd needed to keep it within torp range but outside blaster range raven base speed = 115 mega base speed = 125 Raven low slots = 5 Mega low slots = 7 Explain to me how a raven is going to keep out of blaster range. (your talking 1 on 1 so obv the mega has a mwd too)
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:48:00 - [5] Originally by: josti78 Quote: escaping, and fit the mwd needed to keep it within torp range but outside blaster range raven base speed = 115 mega base speed = 125 Raven low slots = 5 Mega low slots = 7 Explain to me how a raven is going to keep out of blaster range. (your talking 1 on 1 so obv the mega has a mwd too) thats because everybody fits a tripple trimarked and multi plated neutron gankatron. this results in the mega beeing slower than the raven (arround 30m/s oO) but if you fit any other setup mega is faster ofc.. also to a poster above. from my experience i usualy lose against a competent mega pilot if i use a scram insted of anotehr lse.. so usualy this will happen: raven with scarm = mega wins raven without scram = mega would die but could warp away. with torps and a active tank you will lose to a mega evertime.
Riho Northen Breeze	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:56:00 - [6] Originally by: d026 Originally by: josti78 Quote: escaping, and fit the mwd needed to keep it within torp range but outside blaster range raven base speed = 115 mega base speed = 125 Raven low slots = 5 Mega low slots = 7 Explain to me how a raven is going to keep out of blaster range. (your talking 1 on 1 so obv the mega has a mwd too) thats because everybody fits a tripple trimarked and multi plated neutron gankatron. this results in the mega beeing slower than the raven (arround 30m/s oO) but if you fit any other setup mega is faster ofc.. also to a poster above. from my experience i usualy lose against a competent mega pilot if i use a scram insted of anotehr lse.. so usualy this will happen: raven with scarm = mega wins raven without scram = mega would die but could warp away. with torps and a active tank you will lose to a mega evertime. i agree whit you :) the fight i won, i was actually useing a painter instead of scram... helped alot. but i fear the golem most (your is insane....D026) i got shot by you in FFA1 whit my 2x rep mega.... 1,3k dmg a torp preety much killed me.. but then i got out of range whit mwd (scrapeing hull :P) my advice... dont go close to a golem unless u can jam it, tank it (VERY hard whit t1 bs) or gank it before you pop :P
mallina Caldari Core Contingency	Posted - 2007.11.29 13:21:00 - [7] Edited by: mallina on 29/11/2007 13:22:07 Originally by: Arthur Frayn I shudder to think of the crybabies who will come crawling out of the woodwork when Amarr do get the boost they need. Despite a nearly unanimous agreement across the whole eve community that Amarr are somewhat lacking, when they do finally get a boost there will be whiners complaining about "Amarr online". And they'll mostly be Gallente. That's funny, since pretty much all the people i've ever flown with seem to think otherwise: Only the vocal majority (the forum whiners) are in unanimous agreement. Not saying that Amarr couldn't use a tad bit of rebalancing here and there, but 90% of suggestions I've read for Amarr would make them horredously overpowered to the point where Amarr online is exactly what we'd be seeing. As for the topic itself: I think the new Raven is fine. Even on SiSi where everyone has Crystal sets and Bluepills they're still not all that difficult to kill - particually with my Geddon. Yes they can tank well if they setup 100% to do so but what really is the point in that? Everything will just warp away. (Same goes for passive shieldtanks) Gallente were never as overpowered as people made them out to be, either. I think that mainly goes back to the days of NOS/ECM Domis, Ishtars, etc and the pre-nosnerf Myrmidon, but that was an issue with those certain modules rather than the race as a whole. Some people must just always have a sense of inferiority. Also, comparing ships in 1v1 situations is hardly an accurate measure of their strengths ---
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.29 13:44:00 - [8] Edited by: d026 on 29/11/2007 13:49:04 Edited by: d026 on 29/11/2007 13:48:23 Originally by: Riho i agree whit you :) the fight i won, i was actually useing a painter instead of scram... helped alot. but i fear the golem most (your is insane....D026) i got shot by you in FFA1 whit my 2x rep mega.... 1,3k dmg a torp preety much killed me.. but then i got out of range whit mwd (scrapeing hull :P) my advice... dont go close to a golem unless u can jam it, tank it (VERY hard whit t1 bs) or gank it before you pop :P just immagine you fit a pith booster and some dg bcus on that golem beast :) with lvl V warhead upgrades, 3 dg bcu and a 5% dmg imp torp dmg is arround 2k resulting in a 8k alpha (rage/dg torps) on o% resist.
Sir Howard Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.29 14:44:00 - [9] Originally by: Arthur Frayn Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 29/11/2007 12:14:52 That's just one way of approaching the upcoming Caldari buff from a reasonable perspective. If you can argue that the Raven will out-tank and outgank a Megathron while being able to tackle it to keep it from escaping, and fit the mwd needed to keep it within torp range but outside blaster range, then you are justified in whining. Because last time I checked, the Megathron can do all those things at once and the Raven has never been able to, nor will it ever. Or please argue that the Megathron will now be obsolete in small gang warfare when its blasters score wrecking hits on webbed frigates that torpedoes would barely scratch. Someone clue me in if the sniperthron is now a thing of the past in huge fleets, because.. oh wait, missiles are sh!thouse for sniping. Scripts, you say? If any ship gets close enough that you can't hit it, I hope you have spare tracking scripts. ECM ships are getting boosted? The previously useless Scorpion is going to be worth flying again? Say it aint so! I'm trying to get a sense of perspective on the Caldari buff here. There's a "Welcome to Caldari Online" thread, for crying out loud. The patch hasn't even been deployed yet, and you French toadsuckers can't stop p!ssing and moaning. I have a theory: People have suffered so many hits of the nerfbat that any single race that gets even a slight boost is hated for it. It's a plain, simple case of: "But what about me? Why don't I get a shiny gift?". Or perhaps it's more like: "But I chose Gallente because they have the highest dps! You can't make the Raven have possibly* higher dps! Wahh!!". Being Gallente seems to make some people soft and lazy because they're the ones who whine. I've seen very few Caldari whiners in the past. Most of them like the roles their ships fill. Most of them will crosstrain without complaint if a different race's ship will do a better job than the one they have. Amarr players may complain, but they're justified and they often soldier on. After the nos nerf, there are plenty of Curse pilots who still swear by the uberness of their ships. I shudder to think of the crybabies who will come crawling out of the woodwork when Amarr do get the boost they need. Despite a nearly unanimous agreement across the whole eve community that Amarr are somewhat lacking, when they do finally get a boost there will be whiners complaining about "Amarr online". And they'll mostly be Gallente. Caldari pilots dont whine much because its only recently that some of their ships needed a buff. If you had been around over a year ago you'd know the Caldari Online quote was started because most considered the Caldari overpowered and therefore its pilots did not need to whine. "This is a bad idea wrapped in a horrible plan and shipped in a ******** box"*
Theron Gyrow Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.29 15:02:00 - [10] Originally by: d026 also to a poster above. from my experience i usualy lose against a competent mega pilot if i use a scram insted of anotehr lse.. Honestly curious: How do those battles go? That is, at what range do you start and how do you maneuver? -- Gradient forum
Mephistophilis Cygnus Alpha Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.29 15:05:00 - [11] I Fly pure Gallente these days but i have to say, i think the raven deserves the buff it's going to get. Till now, when has anyone feared jumping a raven? I wouldn't have thought twice about it! Once this is done i wish they would just leave everything alone! Seems they change stuff every 4/5 months now, they need to let the players evolve and find there way with what we have.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.29 16:50:00 - [12] Originally by: Mephistophilis I Fly pure Gallente these days but i have to say, i think the raven deserves the buff it's going to get. Till now, when has anyone feared jumping a raven? I wouldn't have thought twice about it! Once this is done i wish they would just leave everything alone! Seems they change stuff every 4/5 months now, they need to let the players evolve and find there way with what we have. You know, I couldn't agree more with this. The problem from my perspective is the simultaneous across the board nerfage and across the board caldari boosting. ;-) Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Fuazzole	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:24:00 - [13] It's quite balanced really, the torp vs blaster thing Torps are; more damage dmg selective longer range capless but! caldari ships are slow and can't stop the target turning and runnning
Nuttyape1	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:37:00 - [14] wows... people are actualy debatin the issue... mega > rave there finished sorted and done. gm may as welll close this one now. the nut has spoken
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:48:00 - [15] Well prior to T2 ammo, it generally always was a case of Torp Raven > Megathron, except that the latter could always attempt to warp out as the Raven was all-tank... Then Void L came along and swung it back towards the Megathron (generally so that you'd finish with severe hull damage starting at 15km-20, but that Raven would be dead). And now? hmm... we shall see ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Kenneth McCoy Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:51:00 - [16] I fly a blaster mega, and I've never thought twice about engaging a raven, solo or otherwise. There was just no way that he was going to kill me before I killed him. Now though, I'm gonna have to be more careful. I myself, at first, was little irked when I found out about the torp change, but I've come to grips with it, and I think it's good, in the end. We'll see how it works out when it hits TQ, and people are limited to the stuff they can actually afford, minus boosters/implants/etc etc on sisi. My opinions and views are not the official views of my Corp.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:58:00 - [17] I dont see why the mega should beat every solo BS it comes across by default. Having to choose its targets would be nice for game balance....just like a myrm doesnt want to take a drake solo....there should be BS that the mega doesnt really want to take solo either. Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
sethfon	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:31:00 - [18] Ok guys i am new! but have lost 4 raven so far no one is the least bit afraid of me! The changes are most likly do just from what i have gone through. I am not asking to be invensible but to at least stand a chance, I can tank for a long time but i am so slow i can not get out of my own way lol. I have started to use my drake more than the raven because it passive tanks and i can hold out for a long time but i can not deal enough dps to take down many of the boats out there with all missiles. Reading thses fourms has helped me alot and i look foreward to having a chance for someone to look a my raven and think can i take that down or not! Thanks for everone imput here! One Raven waiting for the changes lol!
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:38:00 - [19] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn I dont see why the mega should beat every solo BS it comes across by default. Having to choose its targets would be nice for game balance....just like a myrm doesnt want to take a drake solo....there should be BS that the mega doesnt really want to take solo either. It cannot. A typhoon can always beat a mega by controlling the range. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Edriahn Gallente Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:40:00 - [20] You are just missing the point. Caldari now have raven and rockh, med and long range. Rokh is really not good at close range. So for fighting close range high dmg battleships you only have the raven. But on gallente side it's not competing with the mega. It's competing with the hyperion monster, wich has more tank, more speed, more cap... price is also higher, but even with the torp buff, hyperion still will be better...
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:18:00 - [21] I'm sure the Raven will be extremely competitive with the Blasterthron now, and totally overpowered if the Raven pilot has a crystal set in. But oh well. Just more Raven targets for me to kill with my Blasterthron until they happen upon some decent setups. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:28:00 - [22] Originally by: Bellum Eternus I'm sure the Raven will be extremely competitive with the Blasterthron now, and totally overpowered if the Raven pilot has a crystal set in. But oh well. Just more Raven targets for me to kill with my Blasterthron until they happen upon some decent setups. no! you are completely wrong. raven + torps + active tank = fail. you just dont have enough mids to fit tp + mwd + tank + injector. works well on the golem tough:)
me bored	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:40:00 - [23] I know it's not exactly realistic but I've been consistently beating megas and hyps on sisi with an active tanking torp setup.
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.11.30 01:20:00 - [24] These changes wont stop me engaging a raven 1vs1 in my megathron. But a group of ravens will own an equally sized group of megathrons imo.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.30 01:46:00 - [25] Originally by: me bored I know it's not exactly realistic but I've been consistently beating megas and hyps on sisi with an active tanking torp setup. mind sharing your setup? i tried in quickfit for hours but i just dont seem to be able to fit a decent active tank withou having to resort to deadspace mods.. thx d.

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