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Sleekman Minmatar VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 02:55:00 - [1] Hello, This is my first post in the Market, but I have long been a reader. I would just like to discuss the impacts of patches, specifically trinity for this post, on the market. I see the following as possible impacts, if you are interested, please post your opinion or thoughts on them. 1. Pre-Patch Fluctuation - I believe that pre-patch, often a lot of people become uncertain as to what will happen with that patch, this causes a fluctuation right before a big patch. This occurs in real life also, eg. In America, right before interest rates are announced. This fluctuation could be either up or down depending on what people believe about the patch. Stockpiling, or sell-offs are likely to occur. 2. Post-Patch Surge - Usually with the large patches, new production options become available ( in this case, T2 BS, T2 Freighter, Heavy Interdictors, EW Frigates ) which result in a low-supply, high demand market with prices initially being excessively high and moving towards a standard price. This surge in demand also has ripple effects on the components used to make the new items. Minerals, T2 Materials, etc. Due to invention it will also have a demand on datacores, and the t1 variants of the ships(ingredients for t2) 3. Post-Patch Adjustments - In this patch there are several modules being modified. Scripting is being introduced for sensor related modules. Torpedo range is being reduced and damage increased. This will impact demand for these items, depending on whether or not people still find them useful or chose to use the slot for something else. Adjustments will be made to the pricing of each of the items in order to attempt to compensate. In particular I would like to discuss the possible impacts upon Torpedoes, as they are significant ammo type at the moment. Will people continue to use them after the patch for ratting/missions or will they move to cruise? I think that in order to answer this we need to know about NPC changes associated, if the BS Class rats that use torpedoes are a) reduced in range like we are (it has happened before where we were nerfed but not rats) b) have their orbiting distance modified in order to continue using torpedoes or c) are moved to cruise or another type of attack For the first and third options, I believe that people will move away from Torpedoes as a damage source. However, for the second option, it will probably increase their use, due to increased DPS we can use against them. Anyways, let me know what you think, and throw in your opinion.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.30 03:18:00 - [2] Good post The funny thing with torpedos is that CCP have made the T2 bpo easier to produce from with reduced manufacturing times, but they have also made the end result far less worthwhile to use at the same time. The initial idea was CCP would allow torps a shorter range but larger damage burst. They put in the shorter range but all of my testing shows the exact same damage burst. So the latest torpedo thing is yet another nerf and one that will guarantee the ending of torps. Now, if they bring FoF torps into the picture then it puts them much more on balance. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.11.30 03:43:00 - [3] Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 30/11/2007 03:43:35 Originally by: Ricdic So the latest torpedo thing is yet another nerf and one that will guarantee the ending of torps. Now, if they bring FoF torps into the picture then it puts them much more on balance. Unfortunately that won't happen. FoF is a guided missile property, and if that happened then all the explosion-reducing skills etc would apply to torps, and they'd suddenly become quite awesome. I can dream but,,, Improve Market Competition!
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.30 03:52:00 - [4] Well torps have had a drastic reduction in range. The idea was to shorten range and increase damage to compensate. The increased damage never happened but the range was descreased. So something is needed to compensate or anyone ever using torp over cruise is a moron. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2007.11.30 03:54:00 - [5] Perhaps they'll just fix the Torp damage as intended? Eve Web Design \| PerthChat \| GD for grown-ups
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.11.30 04:00:00 - [6] Originally by: Ricdic Well torps have had a drastic reduction in range. The idea was to shorten range and increase damage to compensate. The increased damage never happened but the range was descreased. So something is needed to compensate or anyone ever using torp over cruise is a moron. Mmmh, but then they'd be out-of-line with other non-guided missiles like rockets and HAMs. But I agree with your sentiment Improve Market Competition!
Lieutenant Obvious Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 09:32:00 - [7] Originally by: Ricdic Well torps have had a drastic reduction in range. The idea was to shorten range and increase damage to compensate. The increased damage never happened but the range was descreased. So something is needed to compensate or anyone ever using torp over cruise is a moron. I think you need to look into it a bit further Ricdic. Torps have had flight times cut dramatically. Torpedo LAUNCHERS have had their ROF cut dramatically. A gank torp raven does close to, if not more than, the DPS of a gank blasterthron. Sure, they're gonna suck for missioning just like blasters do, but not because they didn't receive a damage burst upgrade. They received a massive damage buff due to the 25% reduction in torp launcher rof.
Mr Horizontal Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 10:09:00 - [8] LOL, Inter Caldari banter... what wonderful fail For me the worst nerf is the Myrmidon drone nerf and absolutely no change to the Drake's tank. In Trinity it's gonna be hard for a Myrm to take down a Drake with it's ludicrous tank in a 1v1, and that's imbalance 101. --- meh.
Lieutenant Obvious Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 10:44:00 - [9] I'd also like to thank the "Crap they've set a release date" crowd that have speculated massively on most invention items. I love you. 95m for Assembly Instructions? Ta.
Chavu Ganja Labs Pure.	Posted - 2007.11.30 11:03:00 - [10] Yeah Ricdic, Siege launchers have a -25% rof bonus that really makes them quite lethal. You wouldn't want them to be given a bigger volley damage as then it would make high sec ganking a lot easier :) It makes torp launchers much harder to use in PvE, but very useful in PvP. But there is a gigantic market for mission runners so spreading arbalest cruise launchers in mission runner hub systems once trinity is deployed should yield quite a bit of profit. Arbalest siege launchers will really only be used on PvP Ravens and Typhoons so I expect a bit dip in prices on that item. RSDs/TDs are getting a somewhat good nerf and ECM are getting bonuses everywhere so I expect best named and t2 racial jammers to be in much more demand. This line might be worth some profit to someone willing to go through and compare LP stores of SISI to TQ: "Module and blueprint offers for all Empire faction LP stores have been modified to bring them in line with new pricing models. " Should be some good opportunities to make some money off of trinity :)
Jaeger Orlofsson VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.11.30 11:11:00 - [11] Originally by: Chavu Arbalest siege launchers will really only be used on PvP Ravens... and Golems ;)
Svanna Gulmi	Posted - 2007.11.30 11:12:00 - [12] Edited by: Svanna Gulmi on 30/11/2007 11:13:12 So.... Seige lauchers will be in higher demand or lower? Sure PvE'ers wont use them as much but then they don't loose ships like PvP'ers do! My guess is that Raven pilots of the past will be taking off the dust sheets and making some use of the raven in the corner of the hangar!
Jin Steele Port Royal Independent Kontractors Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.30 11:59:00 - [13] Originally by: Mr Horizontal LOL, Inter Caldari banter... what wonderful fail For me the worst nerf is the Myrmidon drone nerf and absolutely no change to the Drake's tank. In Trinity it's gonna be hard for a Myrm to take down a Drake with it's ludicrous tank in a 1v1, and that's imbalance 101. a properly fit myrm can easily tank a drake...
Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.30 12:11:00 - [14] Originally by: Jaeger Orlofsson Originally by: Chavu Arbalest siege launchers will really only be used on PvP Ravens... and Golems ;) Why Golems? I don't see anything in their stats that won't make the range nerf any less crippling. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map
Jaeger Orlofsson VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.11.30 12:38:00 - [15] I would have thought the 100% damage boost would appeal to torp throwers, especially with the ROF boost. Ok the range is reduced, but for gank squads I would have thought the potential to heavily spank other BS's would appeal when the quad has a good mix of ship types. I know if I was in a Golem against any other BS I'd be happy to be flinging high damage torps, but then again I'm dont pvp often.
Sleekman Minmatar VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 13:06:00 - [16] Good discussion on the torps, any comments on any of the other impacts?
Minmatar Citizen 4521577	Posted - 2007.11.30 15:49:00 - [17] Originally by: Mr Horizontal LOL, Inter Caldari banter... what wonderful fail For me the worst nerf is the Myrmidon drone nerf and absolutely no change to the Drake's tank. In Trinity it's gonna be hard for a Myrm to take down a Drake with it's ludicrous tank in a 1v1, and that's imbalance 101. Like a cyclone or a hurricanes have an easier time than the new myrm when killing the drake.
Augeas	Posted - 2007.11.30 15:53:00 - [18] Quote: For me the worst nerf is the Myrmidon drone nerf and absolutely no change to the Drake's tank. In Trinity it's gonna be hard for a Myrm to take down a Drake with it's ludicrous tank in a 1v1, and that's I'm-being-stupid-101. Whereas that type of Drake has precisely zero chance of killing your Myrm. You're just whining about not being able to kill someone quickly enough, aren't you?
VB Sarge	Posted - 2007.12.01 03:21:00 - [19] Attempting to stave off the turn of this thread from Price Fluxuations to another OMG My Myrmidon isn't overpowered anymore thread... A quick note, is, that the Drake was the counter to the Myrmidon, the fact that the Myrmi was able to destroy every other BC was a testament to the fact that it was overpowered. And yes, Heavy drones ARE Battleship sized weapons. I think the T2 modules in many areas are getting a sales boost with the upcoming patch. I see a steep change in this area. While they say invention gets a little easier, it could hurt or help T2, making it either more expensive, due to it's now increased usefulness on a lot of items, e.g. shield boosters, target painters, ewar... where it might not have had the biggest interest marketwise (minus the shield booster of course) if they are easier to invent, the prices could go down, or the demand might raise the prices a little bit. All in all, aside from Mineral prices, which I think will undoubtedly change drastically within the first weeks or even days of the patch, most of the market should stay somewhat stable. This brings to mind a subject on the increase in base minerals and decrease in exotic mineral prices, and their relation to module prices. As a budding trader, I am trying not to put my eggs into a basket relying on a shift in the market. I see it as a 50/50 chance that of success, and would need a substantial amount of my current funds to make a difference. It's a gamble I'm not willing to take. As far as seige launchers, I think we will definately see a resurgance of them being used in 0.0 and low sec for use in PvP, and some missions they are still viable options, but I couldn't begin to put any speculation on how that will effect market prices. It might put them up closer to Cruise Missile Launcher prices, mainly named module pricing. Where right now seiges are slightly lower, from my experience, that gap might just start to disappear. Conversely, if that is the right word, the change might put Cruises into favor with mission runners and replace any sieges that were currently being fielded. All in all, changes are undoubtedly going to happen, but as far as which direction, it'll be interesting to see. Does anyone think trit prices will be dropping again soon? or will they stay where they are a month after Trinity? I see fortunes being made and lost in the next few weeks. I just hope I'm able to hop on the income bandwagon and stay away from the wagon that heads into an isk sink.
Lieutenant Obvious Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.01 12:56:00 - [20] Originally by: VB Sarge Does anyone think trit prices will be dropping again soon? or will they stay where they are a month after Trinity? Not likely. Remember Kali 1 and the tier 3 BS and tier 2 BCs? The beginning of the end for high end mineral prices and ridiculous upwards trends for trit and pyer.
Ryuga VonRhaiden Caldari Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2007.12.01 22:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Jin Steele a properly fit myrm can easily tank a drake... Is there any ship that can't easily tank a drake? :P Do not try and find the signature... that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... There is no signature.
Algorithm 5 Caldari Hakata Group Blade.	Posted - 2007.12.02 21:44:00 - [22] Originally by: Ryuga VonRhaiden Originally by: Jin Steele a properly fit myrm can easily tank a drake... Is there any ship that can't easily tank a drake? :P Indeed :) To be honest, I'd be surprised if a well fitted drake COULDN'T tank a BC, or even most BS. I mean, look at one from above, it even LOOKS like a giant shield emitter :)
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.12.02 21:47:00 - [23] Originally by: Algorithm 5 Originally by: Ryuga VonRhaiden Originally by: Jin Steele a properly fit myrm can easily tank a drake... Is there any ship that can't easily tank a drake? :P Indeed :) To be honest, I'd be surprised if a well fitted drake COULDN'T tank a BC, or even most BS. I mean, look at one from above, it even LOOKS like a giant shield emitter :) I believe he was saying the opposite, that a myrm could tank a drake... not that a drake could tank a myrm. Clearly the drake is an amazing tank, passively at that. But this discussion should be had on the ships & modules forum, not the MD forum. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained

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