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Niklas
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Posted - 2007.12.06 00:08:00 -
[1]
Um Ive spent the last well 4 yrs or more armor tanking. Then i learned my beloved nightmare was getting a sex change. After 5min of frantic search i finally discovered there WAS a shield tab in the market but have been unable to make heads or tails of wether passive or active tanking would work best.
Ive got 3 CCC rigs fitted already. The nightmare now has a 5-7-6 layout with 4 turrets. I can use all tech2 shield mods that ive looked at. CPU and grid dont look to be a problem. Im mainly interested in running lvl 4 missions for Amarr Navy. Also figure a begining budget of around 300mil.
With that information can you expert shield tankers out there give a noob some setup ideas on my nightmare. Thank you very much.
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Last Wolf
Templars of Space
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Posted - 2007.12.06 00:22:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Last Wolf on 06/12/2007 00:22:02 for the tank, do a search for raven setups. add a hardener/cap recharger II/boost amp/ target painter/Web/whatever in the 7th slot.
0-1 DCU 2-4 PDU 2-3 cap flux coils 1-3 Heat sinks
depending on your cap skills/mission/preference.
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Anon Forumalt
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Posted - 2007.12.06 00:48:00 -
[3]
Damn, 5 lows and 7 mids?
For lows I'd go with 3 Heat sinks, and 2 capacitor power relays if you don't need any CPU/powergrid adjustments to fit your lasers.
Then in the mids: 3 hardeners, XL shield booster II, shield boost amplifier, maybe 2 cap rechargers in the remaining slots? Add a 4th hardener if you think you need it, or an afterburner (or dare I say MWD?) so you can use pulses effectively. |
Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights Division of Eden
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Posted - 2007.12.06 00:54:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Anon Forumalt Damn, 5 lows and 7 mids?
For lows I'd go with 3 Heat sinks, and 2 capacitor power relays if you don't need any CPU/powergrid adjustments to fit your lasers.
Then in the mids: 3 hardeners, XL shield booster II, shield boost amplifier, maybe 2 cap rechargers in the remaining slots? Add a 4th hardener if you think you need it, or an afterburner (or dare I say MWD?) so you can use pulses effectively.
Avoid cap power relays on an active tank if possible. Try to use PDUs instead. As far as tank goes, fit a standard CNR tank and use the remaining mid however you like.
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Hectaire Glade
Forum Jockey
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Posted - 2007.12.06 07:52:00 -
[5]
Would not recommend trying to passive tank it as you have cap using weapons, so stick a standard Gisti XL booster tank on it, lows would be 2 PDUs and 3 HS IIs, given the 7th mid you could likely get away with a large SB and SBA easily enough.
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Admiral Pelleon
Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2007.12.06 07:53:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Hectaire Glade Would not recommend trying to passive tank it as you have cap using weapons, so stick a standard Gisti XL booster tank on it, lows would be 2 PDUs and 3 HS IIs, given the 7th mid you could likely get away with a large SB and SBA easily enough.
Solid advice, personally I'd stick with the X-L and an amp, but to each his own. ________ "It's a good day to die!"
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Jonny JoJo
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.06 08:03:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 06/12/2007 08:04:00
Originally by: Impolite Andevil
Originally by: Anon Forumalt Damn, 5 lows and 7 mids?
For lows I'd go with 3 Heat sinks, and 2 capacitor power relays if you don't need any CPU/powergrid adjustments to fit your lasers.
Then in the mids: 3 hardeners, XL shield booster II, shield boost amplifier, maybe 2 cap rechargers in the remaining slots? Add a 4th hardener if you think you need it, or an afterburner (or dare I say MWD?) so you can use pulses effectively.
Avoid cap power relays on an active tank if possible. Try to use PDUs instead. As far as tank goes, fit a standard CNR tank and use the remaining mid however you like.
Avoid PDU's and use Flux's insted.
Never use PDU's on a Battleship for PvE, unless you have grid issues. The extra buffer is meaningless as a Cap Flux II has almost the same recharge as a relay. Cap flux II sustains nos's better than PDUs well in PvE only (pvp cap flux will get you murdered!).
Even on CNR - you can fit in a extra BCU by dropping pdu's and adding in flux's. Even 5 Flux's lets you sustain a t2 XL booster for the paranoid
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Don Juanito
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Posted - 2007.12.06 08:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Impolite Andevil
Originally by: Anon Forumalt Damn, 5 lows and 7 mids?
For lows I'd go with 3 Heat sinks, and 2 capacitor power relays if you don't need any CPU/powergrid adjustments to fit your lasers.
Then in the mids: 3 hardeners, XL shield booster II, shield boost amplifier, maybe 2 cap rechargers in the remaining slots? Add a 4th hardener if you think you need it, or an afterburner (or dare I say MWD?) so you can use pulses effectively.
Avoid cap power relays on an active tank if possible. Try to use PDUs instead. As far as tank goes, fit a standard CNR tank and use the remaining mid however you like.
pulses have enough range for all missions. scorch = win. tbh i was looking at using the nightmare as a tachyon platform, given its amazing grid and the tracking boost it seems to be made for them. unfortunately im too lazy to do math and eft has the old sansha ships, so i havent been able to figure out what exactly to put on it (Gist is out of the question, im broke enough after buying the ship, but i do have a pith b-type i can pull off my cnr).
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schwarzes Schaf
Gallente Apostles of Insanity Rare Faction
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Posted - 2007.12.06 08:15:00 -
[9]
A friend of mine is getting 4k wreckings on cans with t2 tach's on the Nightmare.
That thing is insane.
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Dubious Drewski
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Posted - 2007.12.06 09:11:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Dubious Drewski on 06/12/2007 09:11:47
It's so unbelievably common to see people fitting Cap power relays on active shield tankers. It makes me shake my head. I used to speak up at things like this, but I now prefer to keep my enemies flying bad setups
Edit: Why dontcha put a Shield Flux coil on there too? That would be Uber.
Originally by: Slayton Ford a Drake is normally primaried last
And that's why I love that homely boat! |
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Xanos Blackpaw
Amarr The Firestorm Elite
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Posted - 2007.12.06 10:50:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Xanos Blackpaw on 06/12/2007 10:49:58 actuly best named CPRs work on active shield tankers, the best CPRs only decreases shield boost with 10%...meaning a single boost amp negiates to lose from 3 CPRs...and the nightmare got room for 2 boost amps...
Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi". |
Xequecal
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Posted - 2007.12.06 10:56:00 -
[12]
The "standard CNR tank" will have cap issues trying to run on a Nightmare. It does use lasers after all.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.12.06 10:58:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Dubious Drewski Edited by: Dubious Drewski on 06/12/2007 09:11:47
It's so unbelievably common to see people fitting Cap power relays on active shield tankers. It makes me shake my head. I used to speak up at things like this, but I now prefer to keep my enemies flying bad setups
Edit: Why dontcha put a Shield Flux coil on there too? That would be Uber.
CPRs have their uses on shield tanks..i have a chimera that kind of proves that..
As far as the nightmare concerns, for pve i always like 4 damage mods as the 4th one gives you another 5% dps easily..so it would look like this..
highs: things that harm your fellow man
mid: xlarge booster, 2x boost amp, 3x hardeners, afterburner/cap recharger/painter
low: 4x heatsink, 1x cap flux coil
Originally by: ISD Cortes You're at liberty to use the rolling sig you had, as long as there's no chimeras covering the nether regions of voluptuous females |
Xanos Blackpaw
Amarr The Firestorm Elite
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Posted - 2007.12.06 11:23:00 -
[14]
fitting for new nightmare
highs: 4x mega pulses/mega beams/tachs mid: x-large booster, 2x boost amp, 3-4x hardeners, 0-1 cap recharger(no web, use drones for the frigs)
low: 2x heatsink, 3x CPR
rigs: 3x CCC
Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi". |
JoCool
MASS
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Posted - 2007.12.06 11:36:00 -
[15]
Go with Xanos' setup, I've made the best experiences with something similar like this on my Raven.
Trey Azagthoth > Youre my idol Jocool. I wanna be like Jocool jr. or Jocool the sequel! Oveur > ohnoes jocool |
Endo Scrote
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Posted - 2007.12.06 11:41:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Endo Scrote on 06/12/2007 11:42:08 Tried mine with a CNR type fit and it sucked cap in no time at all Will try with CPRs after DT
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.12.06 11:43:00 -
[17]
Originally by: JoCool Go with Xanos' setup, I've made the best experiences with something similar like this on my Raven.
Only 2 damage mods on a PVE setup is blasphemy :)
Originally by: ISD Cortes You're at liberty to use the rolling sig you had, as long as there's no chimeras covering the nether regions of voluptuous females |
Xanos Blackpaw
Amarr The Firestorm Elite
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Posted - 2007.12.06 11:45:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: JoCool Go with Xanos' setup, I've made the best experiences with something similar like this on my Raven.
Only 2 damage mods on a PVE setup is blasphemy :)
considering the damage of the tachs it will be fine...besides...you should only do sansha/drone/blood missions with a laser ship...
Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi". |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.12.06 11:47:00 -
[19]
Regardless of what you fight and in what..third damage mods adds 11% dps, fourth adds another 5%.
Originally by: ISD Cortes You're at liberty to use the rolling sig you had, as long as there's no chimeras covering the nether regions of voluptuous females |
Yonos
Balsarferskratchin Inc Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.12.06 12:54:00 -
[20]
I tried the setups proposed here and I got my cap+shields owned by a level 3 mission of cruisers/frigs. I had 3xCCC, megapulses, x-large sbII, SBA,4 hardeners, TP, 3 heatsinks. A tried the remaining 2 lows with either cap flux, cap power relay or combo.
I dont think the penalties of lowslot cap modules make them viable on this ship. Going to try a powerdiagII setup next. And no, its not simply a CNR setup.
Any ideas on last 2 highs? I figure either tractor+salvage, 2x large smartbombs, or nos. Did nos changes extend to nossing rats, i.e.will I get no cap?
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Jonny JoJo
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.06 15:12:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Yonos Edited by: Yonos on 06/12/2007 13:24:33 I tried the setups proposed here and I got my cap+shields owned by a level 3 mission of cruisers/frigs. I had 3xCCC, megapulses, x-large sbII, SBA,4 hardeners, TP, 3 heatsinks. A tried the remaining 2 lows with either cap flux, cap power relay or combo.
I dont think the penalties of lowslot cap modules make them viable on this ship. Going to try a powerdiagII setup next. And no, its not simply a CNR setup.
Any ideas on last 2 highs? I figure either tractor+salvage, 2x large smartbombs, or nos. Did nos changes extend to nossing rats, i.e.will I get no cap?
------- just tried 3xpowerdiagII, tank is much more sustainable, also dropped TP for cap rechargerII. I am still not completely happy with it.
Lasers are broken into using too much cap. Its a bit like having someone run neuts on you, and shield tankers with Neuts on them dont last long.
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Horza Otho
Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2007.12.06 15:18:00 -
[22]
4 mega beam II xl booster 2-3 boost amp 3 invuls 3-4 cpr II 0-1 dcu II 0-1 HS II
I can;t remember how many boost amps counter how many cprs but, iirc, this was the working setup i came up with for missions.
Let drones use overheat too! |
Xequecal
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Posted - 2007.12.06 15:19:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Yonos Edited by: Yonos on 06/12/2007 13:24:33 I tried the setups proposed here and I got my cap+shields owned by a level 3 mission of cruisers/frigs. I had 3xCCC, megapulses, x-large sbII, SBA,4 hardeners, TP, 3 heatsinks. A tried the remaining 2 lows with either cap flux, cap power relay or combo.
I dont think the penalties of lowslot cap modules make them viable on this ship. Going to try a powerdiagII setup next. And no, its not simply a CNR setup.
Any ideas on last 2 highs? I figure either tractor+salvage, 2x large smartbombs, or nos. Did nos changes extend to nossing rats, i.e.will I get no cap?
------- just tried 3xpowerdiagII, tank is much more sustainable, also dropped TP for cap rechargerII. I am still not completely happy with it.
Smartbombs in high-sec are :(. I do hope you're missioning in highsec with this thing.
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achoura
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Posted - 2007.12.06 15:25:00 -
[24]
Lasers use too much *well tachs do) by design, if they didn't you'd have a ship at 150k that would never stop to reload, it the trade. Or you'd end up with a pulse ship and infinite dps/.
On the plus side that 100% damage bonus means you're also only using 50% of your cap for the dps of 8 guns which is like having the 50% cap bonus back.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.06 15:39:00 -
[25]
Just use mega pulses. They use very few cap. Also do not let your booster on all the time. The idea is to pulse it on only when needed.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Kattalla
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Posted - 2007.12.06 16:36:00 -
[26]
Hi there,
I don't know how it could works - but I'll try when I'm at home.
I'm armor tanker and nightmare was just perfect for this. I was running 4 tach / target painter / dmg-ctrl / 2 x-* hardeners / 1 x-* L rep without any cap problems. Additionally I had one more a-* L rep which could be turned on during full aggro - and doing any mission I was able to to open new beer or prepare coffe for me without any risk to be taken down. Second rep was able to work for looooong time before I was out of cap. I have invested in full slave set as well.
It seems I have to change my mind at this moment :-) Need to move up my shield skills and try how shield tank could work. Let you know about my experince ASAP.
Regards, -Kattala.
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Xequecal
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Posted - 2007.12.06 17:02:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: JoCool Go with Xanos' setup, I've made the best experiences with something similar like this on my Raven.
Only 2 damage mods on a PVE setup is blasphemy :)
considering the damage of the tachs it will be fine...besides...you should only do sansha/drone/blood missions with a laser ship...
There's no reason to stick to sansha/drone/blood missions.
The Nightmare outdamages a cruise CNR on every faction except Angels, (Yes, it outdamages the CNR on Gurista/Serpentis) and outdamages a cruise Golem against everything.
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Vireti
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Posted - 2007.12.06 17:07:00 -
[28]
As with all laser platforms balancing cap is life or death but seriously its a pain, this ship is so build for tachs (cap and shield (varies with isk, 2 bil o problems).
I loved the rev 2 sansha ships even if the split system had it's niggles, now it has the dps of an abaddon with half the cap use and 2 spare highs, one more mid than a cnr and the ammo efficiency of a marauder. If you can fly or find one of those it's worth making the effort to use this.
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Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights Division of Eden
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Posted - 2007.12.06 17:14:00 -
[29]
I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but has anyone used a large shield booster with multiple amps? That would knock down the cap use a fair amount, but I am not sure it would keep up with the damage.
Using a scorpion in EFT, I can put a Gist B-type large shield booster, 3 boost amp 2s, and 3 hardeners (ok against 2-damage type missions) and get a boost amount of 495 every 3.2 seconds. A pith b-type does 620 every 3.2 seconds.
I am wondering if this ship wouldn't do better with a fairly decent large shield booster and a few high-end shield boost amps instead of an XL setup. I just can't get an XL setup with reasonable cap efficiency so far.
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achoura
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Posted - 2007.12.06 17:21:00 -
[30]
Avoid tii guns and ammo, modulated or better faction, with navy ammo. Ok your taking a dps hit but the cap saved...
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