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Riven Starkill
Caldari The SAS The Kano Organisation
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Posted - 2007.12.07 09:00:00 -
[1]
I think I have finally figured this game out.
It took me almost 2 years, but then, I was laboring under the same false assumptions that most of you probably have about what this game really IS.
It is NOT an Internet Spaceship Combat game, as SpiralJunkie said during the last Alliance tourney. No. It is something completely different.
EVE is actually a space-based, futuristic DAYTRADING sim.
I came to this realization as I was looking at the final product of CCP's careful and reasoned approach to dealing with some modules that needed a nerf, and others that only needed tweaking.
I am referring, of course, to RSDs and TDs and scripts (throw NOS in there too, for good measure). I actually applaud CCP for the idea of scripts. I agree with them that it creates an interesting tactical application of the split bonuses for a single mod. But. Then I found out just how much they nerfed the effectiveness of RSDs and I realized that history was repeating itself.
I am not old enough in this game to have been around since the "beta" days, but I do remember the ECM massacre of '06, and what a mess they made of ECM. It strikes me now that the RSD nerf of '07, preceded by the NOS nerf, are neither careful, nor reasoned. They appear to be clumsy and confused.
Then it hit me. They have done this since the dawn of the game. Anyone remember "cavalry Ravens?" Then "nanophoons?" Then came ECM. And now we have NOS and RSDs that have followed the same pattern:
1. CCP "identifies" a problem of balance (late - after the player base complains about it for 6 months) 2. CCP nerfs the offending mods/ships to hell and back again. They break the game. They make the offending mods useless for ALL applications ū for the next year. And, they make you wish you never specialized in the first place. 3. After a year, they un-break the broken mods/ships and give them some uber-love. (as ECM just got)
So I had to ask myself how the clever lads at CCP, who made a great game, could be so DENSE when it comes to how their game actually works...
And then it hit me. The only group of players who NEVER get nerfed are the TRADERS!
It's intentional!
Think about it. Every cycle of nerf, buff, de-buff, nerf, buff.... nerf.... really only serves ONE purpose: to constantly throw the whole market into chaos. And who are the only people who benefit from that?? Daytraders!
They devour any Dev blog about future changes and lay in wait for the DAY. They buy up all the undervalued ships/mods (undervalued from the last nerf) on the market. At the same time, they are selling off all the uber-powerful mods/ships that have not yet felt the sting of the nerf bat.
They are waiting... Waiting for the DAY of profit when everyone else finally realizes that Caldari Recons are suddenly useful again, and the rest... arenĘt. (Minmatar exempted, as usual).
Then they sell off all their surplus Caldari Recons at tremendous profits - and wait to buy up all of our other Recons at rock bottom prices... waiting... Waiting for the day that RSDs and NOS get un-nerfed.
Yes. EVE is really not a combat game. That is just the milieu for the Daytrading Sim we all play, called EVE Online.
Time to start training my damn trade skills...
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Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.12.07 09:03:00 -
[2]
Hi.
MP --
Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral compression! |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.12.07 09:04:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 07/12/2007 09:04:06 Hi.
DS
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated) |
Angela Toren
Amarr Toren Shipyards
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Posted - 2007.12.07 09:08:00 -
[4]
So you're saying the random seeding of npc buy aand sell order quantities was not a trader nerf? _____________
Originally by: SheriffFruitfly For ambulation patch, they're gonna slip "format c:\" into the install script.
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Proton Power
Amarr Power Corrupts Tech Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.12.07 09:09:00 -
[5]
Hi.
PP -----------------------------------------------
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=439797Cli |
Ecatherina W
Gallente Core Domination Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2007.12.07 09:10:00 -
[6]
Yeah, well, after the latest "nerf!" to older computers - read my laptop, fx - then I am reduced from a happy PVPer to a trader too... so yeah, time to train trading skills...
***** Ecatherina W ***** Empress of the Multiverse
DGAF Newbie Guide to Everything Eve
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Seraphll
AlfaCorp
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Posted - 2007.12.07 09:10:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Seraphll on 07/12/2007 09:12:15 I don't think insulting the staff that have thought about balancing changes FAR longer than anyone else deserve to be called dense. FYI, I hate people that THINK they know what they are talking about and the people getting paid to know what they are doing don't. When you work for CCP, talk to me about how stupid your colleagues are then...
edit: that rant is only in response to you calling the staff dense, if you want to start trading that's your deal, so whatever...
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F90OEX
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Posted - 2007.12.07 09:11:00 -
[8]
As a Trader (CNR Seller) I am offended
Trading may not have nerfs so to speak, but it can be risky investment wise.
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Riven Starkill
Caldari The SAS The Kano Organisation
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Posted - 2007.12.07 09:17:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Angela Toren So you're saying the random seeding of npc buy aand sell order quantities was not a trader nerf?
Actually, I thought the sarcasm was exceedingly apparent.
My post is not actually a comment about trading. I could care less about trading.
It was about the apparent inability of CCP to find a reasonable approach to seeking "balance" in the game. In stead, we get these cycles of excessive nerf, buff, de-buff, nerf, buff... nerf...
And yes, I am still being sarcastic. I guess I needed to put that in my title.
Oh, and I feel perfectly content to comment on the changes to the game, TYVM. I completely reject the notion that the people at CCP are infallible and always make the right choices. If that were true, we wouldn't have seen the de-nerf (or was it a buff) for ECM this time around...
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Masu'di
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.12.07 09:24:00 -
[10]
once upon a time, market orders were limitless, and no collateral was needed.
so yeh CCP do play whack-a-mole with traders once in a while.
Es and Whizz is recruiting |
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X Kent
Russian Specnaz Red Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.07 09:28:00 -
[11]
ROFL Yea let's nerf traders, make them use fuel when they travel :-).
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Macdeth
Ephemeral Misgivings
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Posted - 2007.12.07 09:31:00 -
[12]
Traders got hit so hard from so many directions in the Shiva/Exodus patch of November '04 that they haven't had to be touched since, ignoring the intermittent failures in market price histories since then.
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Glengrant
Minmatar TOHA Heavy Industries Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.12.07 09:42:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Glengrant on 07/12/2007 09:45:09 Time and again the seame thing happens: CCP looks at soemthing that's overpowered. After a while and before the next big patch they announce a fix (aka nerf). Pilots used to profit from overpowered feature start whining threadnoughts and think they actually represent majory while just being a vocal minority (those satisfied with changes post less). CCP maybe tweaks the change a bit before patch. Whining escalates to predictions about end of Eve, players will quit en mass. Patch comes and and nerf goes online ... time goes by Whining subsides mods/ships still get used (so must still be useful - so indeed were overpowered before) Playerbase increases while most of the quitters didn't actually quit Eve did not end Rinse-Repeat
I've seen this since first year. I was personaly affected by many (most?) nerfs (aka fixes)- I didn't post a lot about them as I happened to agree with most of them.
Missiles, ECM, Drones, etc, etc - all have seen adjustments - none led to them becomeing ss useless as claimed by doomsayers.
Foroum whines are *not* representative - and even where they are on occasion are often wrong.
In doubt I trust a game designer with lots of aggregated data, cool charts and test scenarios a whole lot more than a bunch of pilots who see their favourite uber-gank setup reduced to a balanced feature.
The strangest idea I ever saw here (several other threads) is the guy who complained that CCP nerfs (aka fixes) a few thing instead of increasing (aka messing uo) all the rest. He actually sounded serious. --- ISK BUYER = LOOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
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Empire marketslave
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Posted - 2007.12.07 09:48:00 -
[14]
traders did get a nerf in trinity in the form of increased mod size
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Riven Starkill
Caldari The SAS The Kano Organisation
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Posted - 2007.12.07 09:50:00 -
[15]
LOL, at least Glengrant read my post.
I was calling EVE a Daytrading sim. It was a joke. I was poking fun at CCP for their cycle of nerfs/buffs/counter-buffs...
I actually have NO idea if traders EVER got nerfed.
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Letias
Caldari Teikoku Trade Conglomerate Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2007.12.07 09:59:00 -
[16]
Hi
L
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.12.07 10:02:00 -
[17]
Hi o/
Took you long enough to figure it out
C|S|I|N|x. |
Stirling Finloth
Minmatar Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.12.07 10:05:00 -
[18]
Hi
SF
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Chejun Ishari
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Posted - 2007.12.07 10:06:00 -
[19]
Hi.
CI
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Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.12.07 10:10:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Riven Starkill LOL, at least Glengrant read my post.
I was calling EVE a Daytrading sim. It was a joke. I was poking fun at CCP for their cycle of nerfs/buffs/counter-buffs...
I actually have NO idea if traders EVER got nerfed.
We would be nerfed if there wasn't any dynamics in the market. Everyone and theur Aunt would concentrate one makign a building alt for ONE thing that was good, and over saturate. Nerf for traders = no nerf for anything else. Rate my charecters please, updated so need 3 more, 2M isk for each good review |
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Gaius Sejanus
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.07 10:31:00 -
[21]
Hi.
GS
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Andreask14
Alterum - Infinitus - Fabula Dragons Of Oceans
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Posted - 2007.12.07 10:39:00 -
[22]
Hello, you are right. EvE IS more of a market simulation than it is of any other aspect of the game. Every action can be taxed in ISk after all. And at the end of the day people will only judge your success by the size of your bank roll, even after wars, who cares about killboards when the supposedly losing side is winning by ISK.
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Karanth
Gallente Eve's Brothers of Destiny Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2007.12.07 10:46:00 -
[23]
Posting in a market thread out of water!
All that's left...
There is only one sig hijack that matters, the orginal and only member of the hijack squad. me. -Eris. ps Black russians are better then beer. Well, there's not many of *us* left! -Rauth
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fuze
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Posted - 2007.12.07 10:46:00 -
[24]
The only group CCP cannot nerf are station huggers. |
DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.07 10:47:00 -
[25]
So the Caldari whiners finally got Gallente nerfed hardcore and are now aiming their campaign on traders? WTF ----------------------------------------------- iskies + my wallet = <3
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
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