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High Sec Piracy - It's what makes Eve worth playing

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Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.12.10 12:48:00 - [1] To most people, what I call 'high sec piracy' is usually termed 'high sec suicide ganking', a phrase coined by the losers that end up dead because they don't have a brain and think that everyone should cater to them and their lazy/arrogant attitude that carebears get as standard issue before they undock. Change after change has reduced/removed solo PVP and low sec piracy from the game. Warp to 0km was a big change that dramatically reduced combat opportunities for pirates (it's much easier for people to avoid combat with WTZ). The DPS nerfs and HP increases dramatically reduced a pirates ability to complete a kill before the target escapes, as well as requiring multiple ships just to ensure that you have enough DPS to break a single target's tank. Big nerfs to solo operation. Lack of low sec content- while I think things will improve in the future, the current situation with respect to low sec and it's lack of a reason for anyone other than pirates to exist there is probably the worst problem that currently exists for low sec. Enter the idea of high sec ganking. It's been around forever. Why then are we just recently (last 6 months or so) beginning to hear complaint after complaint about it? Even after Concord has been buffed over and over and over again? I think that it's due to population pressures on low sec pirates, a lack of targets in low sec, and the massive amount of players that never leave high sec space for any reason what so ever because there is no downside to staying in empire permanently. I love high sec ganking. Most loser carebears would have you think that it doesn't take any skill to be successful at it. Boy are they mistaken. Sure, you can muck about and get a hauler or two, but to take down players that are using WTZ, who arn't AFK, and who are sometimes flying T2 heavily tanked haulers it takes a lot of skill and expertise to ensure a clean and efficient kill. And even that doesn't guarantee that your efforts will pay off. For me personally, every billion ISK I manage to get from a target I end up destroying another 8-9 billion ISK in the process. But I just have bad luck. Finding nice fat targets in high sec and then tracking them over 20+ jumps to set up an ambush at just the right moment is really great fun. All too often you end up competing with other gank squads, or some noob has contaminated the gates with Concord and you have to work around problem after problem to get that one brief moment to attack. So many things can and do go wrong. Loot blows up, Concord shows up too soon, people steal your loot, sometimes operator error loses you a ship. One mis-click and hours of preperation and effort can be ruined. But in the end, it's worth all the hard work and effort, splitting billions of ISK worth of loot with your small squad and being thankful that there are morons out there that fly around in untanked destroyers with officer mods in their cargo hold. If CCP ever removed high sec ganking from the game, even more than they already have, that is, I think I'd have to sell my accounts. Everything else is boring in comparision. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.10 12:50:00 - [2] First in a Truth thread. - DesuSigs
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2007.12.10 12:50:00 - [3] EVEN THE BLACKOPS!? ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Chrisb6122 Gallente Tech 2 Holdings Limited	Posted - 2007.12.10 12:55:00 - [4] When did simple minded gankers start to try to use reason to prove a invalid point? , and keep insulting the 'carebears' its rather funny these days.. -
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.10 12:56:00 - [5] Originally by: Bellum Eternus OP Originally by: Chrisb6122 A reply When it comes to reasoning, the latter loses. - DesuSigs
Lesi	Posted - 2007.12.10 13:36:00 - [6] Originally by: Bellum Eternus If CCP ever removed high sec ganking from the game, even more than they already have, that is, I think I'd have to sell my accounts. Everything else is boring in comparision. Well. I hope you sell it sooner than later then. /me points to WoW PvP server and tell him to make a lvl 70 to gank lvl 30ish.
Alitha Maru Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.12.10 14:04:00 - [7] Originally by: Bellum Eternus To most people, what I call 'high sec piracy' is usually termed 'high sec suicide ganking', a phrase coined by the losers that end up dead because they don't have a brain and think that everyone should cater to them and their lazy/arrogant attitude that carebears get as standard issue before they undock. <Znip>.... Just out of curiosity, although I imagine you might not want to answer it, what is the hardest target you have tried to gank but absolutely couldn't? As in, a well set up target.
Tyn Tetro Vanquish Inc	Posted - 2007.12.10 14:07:00 - [8] Originally by: Lesi /me points to WoW PvP server and tell him to make a lvl 70 to gank lvl 30ish. How is that relevant? Some ppp, need to learn about eve not just play it.
Natalia Survenka	Posted - 2007.12.10 14:08:00 - [9] You lost me after the first paragraph.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.10 14:12:00 - [10] I wholeheartidly agree - may not like it when it happens to me but I wouldn't play the game if this couldn't happen.
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.10 14:12:00 - [11] So long as suicide ganking exists CCP will never have to get around to improving real piracy. I consider that a lose-lose situation. Having said that anyone undocking with billions in the hold of anything but a freighter deserves exactly what they get. -------- Idling until the Virgin Media crisis is over.
Call'Da Poleece	Posted - 2007.12.10 14:18:00 - [12] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf So long as suicide ganking exists CCP will never have to get around to improving real piracy. I consider that a lose-lose situation. Having said that anyone undocking with billions in the hold of anything but a freighter deserves exactly what they get. Absolutely spot on on both counts Can you imagine Captain Morgan or Blackbeard attacking a nice juicy galleon knowing full well that they would be leaving the scene of the crime in a rowboat?
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.10 14:29:00 - [13] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf So long as suicide ganking exists CCP will never have to get around to improving real piracy. I consider that a lose-lose situation. Having said that anyone undocking with billions in the hold of anything but a freighter deserves exactly what they get. What is real piracy then in your book? Selling copied skillbooks?
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.10 14:30:00 - [14] Actually, give the current risk / loss ratio for gankers, someone carrying billions (aka more than 2 billions) is a potential profitable target for suicide. Some pirates even go for freighters with lower cargo value than that. -- random eve-related content --
Natalia Survenka	Posted - 2007.12.10 14:31:00 - [15] Originally by: Kirjava What is real piracy then in your book? Selling copied skillbooks? Or ships without warp drives.
Condecinte	Posted - 2007.12.10 14:35:00 - [16] I know you think suicide ganking is here to stay but the more you do it the sillier high sec starts to look, even if the hauler guys ARE being stupid. Keep it up and CCP WILL do something, not because they want to but because like you said yourself you're even having to compete with other high sec suiciders. Soon anything that moves on the way to Jita will get blown up and then the situation will be beyond stupid.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.12.10 14:39:00 - [17] Originally by: Kirjava I wholeheartidly agree - may not like it when it happens to me but I wouldn't play the game if this couldn't happen. Couldn't agree more. It is something I would never do and something I take pains to guard against. Game would be less fun without it.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.10 14:46:00 - [18] Originally by: Call'Da Poleece Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf So long as suicide ganking exists CCP will never have to get around to improving real piracy. I consider that a lose-lose situation. Having said that anyone undocking with billions in the hold of anything but a freighter deserves exactly what they get. Absolutely spot on on both counts Can you imagine Captain Morgan or Blackbeard attacking a nice juicy galleon knowing full well that they would be leaving the scene of the crime in a rowboat? Granted, but then historical pirates also tended to leave their targets intact after raiding the cargo hold. So it balances out.
Victor Hardenberg	Posted - 2007.12.10 14:50:00 - [19] Originally by: Bellum Eternus ...or some noob has contaminated the gates with Concord... /me likes to do that on weekends in the main trading hubs
Maxpie Cross Roads	Posted - 2007.12.10 14:50:00 - [20] I would agree with the op if there were no alts and no insurance payouts in Eve (and there shouldn't be any at all anyway). The main problem I have with suicide ganking is the use of game mechanics (yes, I know, perfectly legal, blah, blah) to do this without any real consequences. He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things.
Kharadran Sullath Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.10 14:52:00 - [21] Originally by: Maxpie Epic sig. Captain! They put creatures in our ears!!! ------ Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull** and troll. If you are deaf**, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.10 14:59:00 - [22] If you're hauling 50M or more in a 300k newbie Industrial with no tanking modules fitted, you're a fool. Though CCP could certainly take steps to inform newbies that this is the case. As a newbie starting out it's perfectly reasonable to expect you're safe in high sec no matter what. It almost always comes as a huge shock to people who are new to eve. Don't be a juicy target and you won't be attacked for what you're carrying. I see it as Darwinism. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Thornat	Posted - 2007.12.10 15:14:00 - [23] Edited by: Thornat on 10/12/2007 15:16:51 You know I find it kind of sad that you had a well thought out post here and certainly some very accurate and interesting information, but the moment you started insulting people for not playing the game as you think its intended you lost a lot of credibility with me. From where I'm standing you are your own problem. Note that I'm not a carebear at all, I think carebears for the most part miss the best parts of the game, but in the same token discounting them as people who play Eve wrong or calling them 'loosers' because of how they choose to play is a pretty naive outlook. Carebears are your exact opposites and if their extreme makes them loosers then your piracy extreme makes you the same. You and your average carebears are mirror oppossites, one hides behind the high sec game mechanic and the other hell bent on exploiting its failures. There is no right or wrong way to play Eve, its an open world where anyone can do anything they want. CCP has the complicated job of trying to balance that world and in so doing they simply have to make judgement calls based on their own vision of the game and by most accounts the game is in fact balanced. Certainly everyone can think of something to complain about, for me its the very existance of T2 BPO's, but I give CCP the respect they deserve for creating a game I enjoy on almost all accounts. The majority of people that refer to Eve as unbalanced can be found right here on the forum in my opinion, the loud minority which lives on either side of one of Eves extremes wether carebear or PvP Pirates constantly clashing in forum discussion trying to push their will on to the game. I say that from personal experiance as I discuss the game largly within with in game pilots and I rarely run accross people who share the extreme views of the forum. Certainly many of the extremist on this forum bring up good points worth discussing and certainly worth considering for CCP but its unfortunate that CCP gives the forum community so much weight as evident in their heavy handed patching/Nefring because while a consensus of opinion would be difficult to poll, I imagine that the large majority of players find most of CCP's changes over the top either by severly over nerfing or severly undernerfing and to this extent I do agree with your comments however unfortunatly you are unknowngly part of the problem as you create the situations that trigger the extreme response from the opposing game philosophy, that of the carebears. There have been too many extreme changes I believe, but I do believe that guys like you are in fact the cause. The loud extremist minoirty on this forum that whines and cries about everything until they are blue in the face seem to have a lot of clout with CCP and many of the changes that have taken place since I started playing have been their constant outrage, however while I can't speak for the community, from my perspective many of the changes that have been made were good, but over the top and while I wouldn't say the game has become unbalance, clearly as you have pointed out, in the war between these two extremes (The PvP Pirate & The Carebears), the carebears are certainly winning. I'm not a pirate, but I'm certainly not a carebear. With that said, I can say that I would probobly be accussed of both on any given day. To me Eve is a game and I don't adapt a personal philosphy like some samuri warrior who insists on following some honor code. For me when I log in sometimes I feel like running courier missions and mining, while other days I'm in Low Sec looking for miners to kill. I do what I fancy to do in the game as do most of my friends, none of which have ever read or even bothered coming to the forum to listen to what is lovingly refered to as the forum kiddies in game, those who's influence is undeniable as is there dedication to forcing their will on the in game majority who are too busy playing the game to come here to discuss it.
Whineroy	Posted - 2007.12.10 15:29:00 - [24] Edited by: Whineroy on 10/12/2007 15:32:26 At first OP's post seemed smart, but then when he began his pathetic whining about "carebears" he revealed himself as yet another sad little ganker and nothing more. Carebears arrogant and lazy ? Well, OP really hit on spot there. After all, it is always carebears who insist that their playing style is the One True Way To Play Eve. It is carebears who keep telling people to "adapt or go play WoW". Not to mention how lazy those carebears are when they endlessly keep saying how CCP needs to nerf empire space, how CCP needs to put in more lowsec, how CCP needs to do this and that... Always for sake of gameplay balance of course, gameplay balance for sure, nothing to do with Mr. Gankbear wanting to get more risk-free kills, no no no. To likes of OP: Admit that the Almighty Ascended Eve Players Known As "pirates" can do and have done at least few things wrong and stop that endless and breathtakingly arrogant "me pirate, me do nothing wrong, me victim of Great Carebear Conspiracy"- whining. If avoiding true risks of PvP makes one a carebear, then all the highsec alt-using "pirates" are carebears of high degree indeed. Thanks.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.12.10 16:36:00 - [25] Can anyone sum that up? Can't be bothered to read an asshat essay. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.10 16:49:00 - [26] Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 10/12/2007 16:51:51 Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 10/12/2007 16:49:34 Originally by: Danton Marcellus Can anyone sum that up? Can't be bothered to read an asshat essay. I'll try : [whine mode] Pirating was much better before ! Now, low sec = dead ! So me go high sec to pirate !!!!!1111eleven Eve for me = high sec pirating. High sec pirating = suicide ganking. Don't nerf high sec ganking !!!1111eleven Else me and all my friend and my gazillion accounts leave ! [/whine mode] It may be a very liberal and personnal summary. Well. No one's perfect. The thing is I do agree with some of his points. Not with how he presents them however. -- random eve-related content --
Naomi Venture	Posted - 2007.12.10 16:54:00 - [27] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Can anyone sum that up? Can't be bothered to read an asshat essay. It's another solo pirate whinefest.
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2007.12.10 16:58:00 - [28] Suicide gankers are easy to ward against, it just requires some metagaming, get a group of alts send alt 1 to the gate ahead, shoot something, anything to draw Concord. Next gate repeat with alt 2 and so on to make sure Concord is already there in force when you get there yourself and the gankers will have no timewindow to operate in. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.10 17:11:00 - [29] I have to disagree with the OP While I'm against removing high sec ganking, at the same time, in 0.5+ (and only in 0.5+).... a player who is NOT afk.... who DOES understand the threats.... who is not "at war".... who DOES use a properly fitted ship and the right type of ship.... who USES warp to zero.... SHOULD be 100% immune to losing his cargo. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Suze'Rain Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.10 17:11:00 - [30] I wholeheartedly support the sentiments of the thread. I wish that highsec ganks forfeited insurance, so that the risk/reward were a bit more dicey (I still wince about being ganked once for loot that must've cost at most 3 mill... not for the loss, but because the hassle) - but eve would be a different game without the risk - and a poorer game for that loss.

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