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Raekone
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Posted - 2007.12.18 12:13:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Keta Min As a carrier pilot i support the fighter nerf. capship-online is not fun.
So you're hoping others won't use carriers as much so you can feel more special in your own. Hypocracy ftw
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Keta Min
Pre-nerfed Tactics SOUL CARTEL
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Posted - 2007.12.18 12:19:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Raekone
Originally by: Keta Min As a carrier pilot i support the fighter nerf. capship-online is not fun.
So you're hoping others won't use carriers as much so you can feel more special in your own. Hypocracy ftw
no i'm hoping that small scale combat will not involve carriers that much anymore.
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Ione Hunt
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.12.18 12:45:00 -
[33]
Carriers are fine now. You can't abuse 'em as glorified haulers any longer, they are still good support, MS CAN be killed in lowsec (main whine), and it's not like the damage is totally out of line considering the size of the ship.
Hell, unless I fit DCU on my Thanatos, my standard Blasterthron does more damage
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Tapper Jackson
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.22 07:59:00 -
[34]
Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 17/12/2007 19:28:39
Originally by: Aaron Mirrorsaver @Bellum
you use carriers in low sec and experience low sec combat with them currently. you play docking games with undocking carriers it seems.
so obviously they matter not as fighting ships to you, but ships you can use to carry around support ships in its sma.
Oh realleh?
Just some time ago: Apoc and 2 inties spotted. Our gang engages. Apoc presses cyno and 3 carriers drop out.
Just some time ago: corpmate in machariel engages a typhoon. Typhoon presses cyno and a mothership and carrier drop out.
They are solo pwn mobiles. Carrier nerf is required.
By this reasoning anybody who has a larger more capable ship and higher skills should be nerfed because they surprise you.
This type of reasoning is what makes the cheesy tactic of swarming with cheap ships and low skill pilots work. Nerf the more capable ships and you nerf the skills that it takes to fly them well. Keep this up and soon it won't matter what skill level is in effect. What will decide the battle is who brings the most pilots to the party. And that will make EVE a very boring place to be. All you'll have to do is press the easy button and whistle up twenty pilots with three weeks training in T1 frigates and you'll win. That's not the sort of game that keeps people around for years and the people it does appeal to are often those that flit off to another game in short order anyway.
No Carrier fighter nerf is required. Additionally such a nerf would harm EVE by serving one particular play style at the expense of the others.
Regards, Tapper Jackson Shoot em till they squeak. |
TheEndofTheWorld
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Posted - 2007.12.22 09:50:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Ione Hunt Carriers are fine now. You can't abuse 'em as glorified haulers any longer, they are still good support, MS CAN be killed in lowsec (main whine), and it's not like the damage is totally out of line considering the size of the ship.
Hell, unless I fit DCU on my Thanatos, my standard Blasterthron does more damage
Solo MS/Carriers camping low-sec systems is hardly the problem.
It is the way they affect (smaller) gang engagements. Jumping capitals into a fight is just too easy. Seriously, why would anyone engage Outbreak 30-50 BS gang with similar gang? They do not, because you will just jump in your capitals... This is similar to several other big 0.0 alliances as well.
15 minute locking/drone launch delay after jump-in would be reasonable. Capitals shouldn't be involved in small time fights imo.
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TheEndofTheWorld
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Posted - 2007.12.22 09:57:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Tapper Jackson
Capital blobbing. The fights are won by the players who jump more capitals into fights. How unfair is that? What is the counter against capital blobs?
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J Valkor
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.12.22 10:36:00 -
[37]
Edited by: J Valkor on 22/12/2007 10:36:31
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
Originally by: Tapper Jackson
Capital blobbing. The fights are won by the players who jump more capitals into fights. How unfair is that? What is the counter against capital blobs?
Make it so for every carrier there needs to be two support ****s to make it 100% effective. For MOMs four support craft for each.
Unfortunately, given the lag of fleet fights and the amount of people using their cap ships solo, there would be too much whining for it to be done.
This thread reminds me of fighting Tri way back when. If they fixed assignment and let both ships have more fighters out, total, just not under their own control, it might be more accepted.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.12.22 10:42:00 -
[38]
Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 17/12/2007 19:28:39
Originally by: Aaron Mirrorsaver @Bellum
you use carriers in low sec and experience low sec combat with them currently. you play docking games with undocking carriers it seems.
so obviously they matter not as fighting ships to you, but ships you can use to carry around support ships in its sma.
Oh realleh?
Just some time ago: Apoc and 2 inties spotted. Our gang engages. Apoc presses cyno and 3 carriers drop out.
Just some time ago: corpmate in machariel engages a typhoon. Typhoon presses cyno and a mothership and carrier drop out.
They are solo pwn mobiles. Carrier nerf is required.
This. And I'm not getting carriers dropped on me, I'm getting motherships ffs. For one or two BS. It's annoying.
Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
Juha85
Beasts of Burden YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.12.22 10:53:00 -
[39]
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
15 minute locking/drone launch delay after jump-in would be reasonable. Capitals shouldn't be involved in small time fights imo.
This would be a good change. Give them the delay for using the fighters after jump in. You could possibly even nerf the amount of fighters a carrier can have out.. just let them control the current amount of drones. ---------------------------------------
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Windjammer
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Posted - 2007.12.23 21:30:00 -
[40]
If you're getting Motherships and Carriers dropped on you, then you're going places people really don't want you to go or there are a bunch of people who really don't like you. Perhaps you should go prepared instead of whining or just not go at all.
What's next? A whine from someone who only wants to use cruisers and thinks battleships should be nerfed? "It's really annoying when I've got my HAC out and engage a cruiser and then two battleships drop in to cream me".
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Daelin Blackleaf
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.12.23 21:55:00 -
[41]
Fighter nerf or no the Thanatos' bonus will remain, in the majority of applications, vastly inferior to that on the Archon and Chimera.
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Alex Shurk
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Posted - 2007.12.23 23:14:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Fighter nerf or no the Thanatos' bonus will remain, in the majority of applications, vastly inferior to that on the Archon and Chimera.
This. It might have been useful when a single carrier was a rare sight, but when every other fight gets a hot-drop and remote-repping carriers are commonplace, a local resist bonus is far and away the most useful.
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Daelin Blackleaf
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.12.24 23:05:00 -
[43]
Should have been obvious when creating ships with damage output roughly equivalent to a single close range BS and a tank far, far, better that adding percentage increases to these different aspects would not result in equal benefit.
For example imagine a ship (called... the Thanatos) that puts out 1000 DPS and reps 3200nhp/s (normalized hit-points per second)
Add 25% to damage you get 250 more damage. Add 25% to "tank" and you get 800 more rep.
But it's worse than that because resistance bonuses both reduce incoming damage and make every hp repped more worthwhile. The Than gets it's 250 extra DPS while the Archon gets over 1850 more nhp/s repped and the Chimera up to 2620 more.
On top of this they receive higher total nhp and a hefty bonus to remote repping directed at them.
The Niddy gets... the repping bonus, though it only works on outgoing reps and not on every ship that reps it. The Than's bonus is a joke.
The only one I'm happy flying is the Chimera, but it would be nice to see the Nid and Than brought up to scratch with the Archon and Chimera.
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Windjammer
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Posted - 2007.12.26 03:02:00 -
[44]
From what you're saying, the Thanatos would draw second place in a ship to ship contest with say........an Archon. But what if the developers thought was that the bonus given the Thanatos would be a nice asset to a fleet? You know.....where the carrier isn't necessarily fighting another carrier or at least not fighting it single ship to single ship. A little extra fire power might be nice then. It's in line with what seems to be the Gallente design philosophy of survival through more fire power to end a fight quickly even if it means a little less in armor or shield survival.
Additionally, doesn't the damage bonus go with the fighter when the fighter is assigned/loaned to another pilot? I really don't know here, so if anyone does chime in. I mean the bonus reads "5% bonus to deployed fighters damage per level". If so, the bonus of the Thanatos would be a nice one to use for that style of fighter use.
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Daelin Blackleaf
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.12.26 07:30:00 -
[45]
I agree it fits with the Gallente style but it severely hampers the ship. In a fleet would you prefer to be in a ship that has vastly improved survivability or slightly increased damage.
From an FC's point of view the added survivability provides: Continued damage Continued logistics (and possibly gang bonuses) Damage soaking Better survival rate
The total damage you do, in a hopeless situation, will exceed that of a Thanatos in all but the swiftest deaths.
The extra hp you rep and/or other bonuses you provide in that time are an added bonus.
Most importantly every few seconds extra that carrier is being fired upon is removing a significant amount of damage that would otherwise be taken by other, softer, targets in your fleet. You lose less ships, you apply your damage longer.
Better survival rate means better morale and wealthier combatants.
Even if the DPS bonus on the Thanatos were increased it would, at most, only be applying that to a few ships, the resistance bonus reduces the damage dealt by every ship firing at you. Damage bonuses simply don't shine on a fleet ship that doesn't pop when someone looks at it funny.
In almost any fight you are not nigh guaranteed to win the tanking bonus is of greater benefit. In a fight where you have the enemy overwhelmed the bonus is not as useful, though the morale impact of watching a Chimera or Archon tank exceptional damage with relative ease bears a mention.
As for your question, no, the bonus is not applied to delegated fighters only those you control directly. You can see how this might be quite a concern to carrier pilots but I believe if CCP had gone forward with their proposed changes the bonus would have been either changed or made to apply to any fighter of yours on the same grid.
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Garozux Varonen
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Posted - 2007.12.26 13:26:00 -
[46]
In big flet battles what really creates lag are the drones. Without the drones lag is ok. I would suggest ships to be able to take out less drones but faster more durable and with more damage output to compensate with the decrease in their ammount present on battlefield
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr Lisento and Miscellaneous Elk
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Posted - 2007.12.26 16:37:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Carriers just suck the fun out of fights, especially at stations, where if you don't bump them out of dock range, they'll always have enough time to deagress and just dock up, so it's pointless to try and attempt to kill them. It's just not fun gameplay. And when ships like these can be used for the primary offensive component of a gang it just ends up being lame when you have a few interceptors, a cyno ship, and some falcons flying around tackling ships and then dropping in 6x carriers to do the damage.
Most of the more well known alliances and/or larger corps do this. I'm not going to name names, but they know who they are.
Quoted text is the truth on the matter. Oh how many times I've had to stop playing for a few hours because 2 or 3 carrier pilots logged on in local when it was just me and two other cruisers/battlecruisers pirating =\
Not to mention how many fights were "aborted" because someone had to undock in their thanatos or archon. ---
Put in space whales!
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Aerick Dawn
Gallente The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.12.26 17:02:00 -
[48]
all you really have to do is put a 30-60 second delay on a cyno module to actually generate the field. Problem solved. No worries about getting caps dropped on you, unless it escalates to a large scale fight, which should draw capitals into the fray logically.
__________________ If I'm in a fair fight, i've done something terribly wrong. |
Anubis Xian
Vertigo One
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Posted - 2007.12.26 17:59:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Garozux Varonen In big flet battles what really creates lag are the drones. Without the drones lag is ok. I would suggest ships to be able to take out less drones but faster more durable and with more damage output to compensate with the decrease in their ammount present on battlefield
Already did that once.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
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Posted - 2007.12.26 19:01:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Aerick Dawn all you really have to do is put a 30-60 second delay on a cyno module to actually generate the field. Problem solved. No worries about getting caps dropped on you, unless it escalates to a large scale fight, which should draw capitals into the fray logically.
That sounds like a reasonable suggestion, though it does even further nerf Titans with their doomsdays. Do they still need to fire at a cyno?
Maybe nail ships down for 30-60 seconds after cynoing (EG prevent them from targetting due to the interference if we want to stay in-character). |
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Daelin Blackleaf
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.12.28 15:11:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Lisento Slaven Oh how many times I've had to stop playing for a few hours because 2 or 3 carrier pilots logged on in local when it was just me and two other cruisers/battlecruisers pirating =\
Not to mention how many fights were "aborted" because someone had to undock in their thanatos or archon.
OR....
Originally by: Lisento Slaven Oh how many times I've had to stop mining for a few hours because 2 or 3 pirates logged on in local when it was just me and two other barges mining =\
Not to mention how many mining ops were "aborted" because someone had to undock in their combat ship.
See what I did there?
The sharks complaining about the larger sharks. As the miners are told if you don't like it bring support. Your post has all the cheek of a thief complaining about having had his swag stolen.
I agree with the docking issue Bellum rose, it has annoyed the hell out of me in the past, but complaining about carriers being used for combat is similar to cruiser pilots complaining about how unfair it is that everyone flies around in battleships.
Kill/ransom a few of their carriers and you'll find them a little less likely to drop them in on random engagements.
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Purest Sin
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Posted - 2007.12.28 15:53:00 -
[52]
Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 17/12/2007 19:28:39
Originally by: Aaron Mirrorsaver @Bellum
you use carriers in low sec and experience low sec combat with them currently. you play docking games with undocking carriers it seems.
so obviously they matter not as fighting ships to you, but ships you can use to carry around support ships in its sma.
Oh realleh?
Just some time ago: Apoc and 2 inties spotted. Our gang engages. Apoc presses cyno and 3 carriers drop out.
Just some time ago: corpmate in machariel engages a typhoon. Typhoon presses cyno and a mothership and carrier drop out.
They are solo pwn mobiles. Carrier nerf is required.
You understand this is the STUPIDEST thing ever posted right? Thats the same thing as saying: "well me and some guys were in our frigs and saw another frig. So we attacked and wham a BS warps in and pwns us. NERF THE BS!!!!111!11 its obviously too strong, killing multiple people at once? Ghey." Some ships are more powerful then others thats why they cost A LOT more so you can kill a lot more people.
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