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Beowulf Scheafer
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Posted - 2007.12.14 04:45:00 -
[1]
this concernes me since i started testing them on sisi. overall the marauders are very cool, but this one thing with the sensorstrengh worries me alot. it was foretold that they will not be giant hacs, so no double dmg bonus, and that thoose will have a weak point, what is ok in my oppinion.
aswell ok is the point that thoose ships got imaginary extraslots in form of very versatile usable highslots. but to make them all loosing a medslot due to the necessity to fit eccm is not really ok in my oppinion. the golem works for me as it is, but both kronos and vargur aren't.
i don't really complain about the kronos, it is definately a very strong ship, even tho its tank is weaker than the others, its dmg, web- and trackingbonus, and the large cargo really make up for that. but beeing unable to scramble something is just not ok, not at all in a 2 bil ship tbh...
the vargur is completly different. as it is a shieldtank and has in general problems with fitting artillery, this ship is, from my point of view, mismatched like hell. if we fit the 4 essentiell things in its medslots for a pvp-closerange-bs (mwd-web-scramble-inj., especially with that kind of cargospace), this leaves only 2 spare slots. now that it needs an eccm to be really usable, we have only 1 slot left for the whole shieldtank. so even if you use high-end officer stuff and a crystal set, its tank can only be considered weak. even if you leave the scrambler in your hangar, like with the kronos, 1 xl-booster and a single invul field is not exactly the tank of your wildest dreams...
the paladin aswell works ok for me, as there is a lower priority for a mwd. in fact, i like this ship the most, as i can have web,scram,eccm and inj. together with a good tank and relativly nice dmg. or weak dmg, a very good tank and neuts... etc.
so my proposal is to get all ships another slot, either med or low:
Paladin: in general another lowslot would improve its tanking abilities alot, but as many people complain about amarr in general beeing so weak (what do you await from a race of fundamentalists? does ***** have scientists able to build nukes???), i would tend to give it the 5th medslot, to have the ability for both mwd and scrambler if wished, and greater versatility in general.
vargur: definately another medslot for the above mentioned reasons. as it is this thing doesn't stand a chance vs any other ship in its class.
golem: as mentioned i think it is fine as it is. but its the only one not having a dmgbonus, therefore it is only fair to give it another slot aswell. thing is, it allrdy has 7 medslots, so giving it another one will just overpower it (imagine a golem with 2 hardeners, 4 jammers, an officer booster and a crystalset ). on this one a lowslot is the way to go.
kronos: as mentioned a kronos is strong. but the lack of a scrambler weakens it far too much in my oppinion (not that the other option, not having an eccm, would be better...). compared to others its tank is weak, and therefore it depends on its surprisingly high dmgoutput (its a tron after all). unfortunately this advantage is easily counterable if you cannot prevent your target to get out and recharge. even if you fight 2 single tier1 bs, having them warping in and out will sooner or later end in a dead kronos. i really hope this is not intended, thoose ships are not exactly cheap.
both astarte and especially sleipnir are very well able to handle 2 oftheir tIversions at a time. and on the other hand, a kronos will not win vs 2 trons even with another medslot and scrambler. and for the current vargur, well, i would not hesitate to attack a single one on my own in a noral tI tron tbh...
am i the only one seeing the kronos and especially the vargur mismatched in their current states?
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Matting
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2007.12.14 04:56:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Beowulf Scheafer it was foretold that they will not be giant hacs, so no double dmg bonus, and that thoose will have a weak point, what is ok in my oppinion.
What is the Marauders role in EVE?
How often do you see Covert Ops (T2 Frig) killing T1 frig? not much I would hazard to guess. Maybe, JUST maybe marauders were designed to fill a role that isn't straight PVP.
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twit brent
Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.12.14 05:02:00 -
[3]
They are not dedicated PVP ships and they arent meant to be solo WTFpwn ships.
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Beowulf Scheafer
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Posted - 2007.12.14 05:06:00 -
[4]
they mustn't be dedicated pvp ships. my concern is hat maybe the kronos, but especially the vargur are just not usable for it. and as the black ops are more logistics than actually rigged for pvp, this would just mean none of the ships is "meant" to be a pvp ship, wouldn't it?
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Boran Tisk
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Posted - 2007.12.14 05:56:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Beowulf Scheafer Edited by: Beowulf Scheafer on 14/12/2007 05:06:23 they mustn't be dedicated pvp ships. my concern is that maybe the kronos, but especially the vargur are just not usable for it. and as the black ops are more logistics than actually rigged for pvp, this would just mean none of the ships is "meant" to be a pvp ship, wouldn't it?
Yes.
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Trigos Trilobi
Man-Eating Village Idiots
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Posted - 2007.12.14 06:17:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Beowulf Scheafer Edited by: Beowulf Scheafer on 14/12/2007 05:06:23 they mustn't be dedicated pvp ships. my concern is that maybe the kronos, but especially the vargur are just not usable for it. and as the black ops are more logistics than actually rigged for pvp, this would just mean none of the ships is "meant" to be a pvp ship, wouldn't it?
Shield tanks like vargur will always be found lacking if you think pvp on solely 1vs1 terms, there just isn't enough meds, ever. That however is very one dimensional way to look at the situation especially in the case of the marauders. A fat slow 1b price tag ship alone is a gank magnet unsurpassed by anything subcapital. So while you're technically somewhat correct in your comparisons, the premise isn't imo very realistic. Most likely if these are going to be used for pvp, it'll be in gangs and then you'll have someone else tackling. You might even have a gang mate with sensor link so you can skip the eccm too.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.12.14 06:18:00 -
[7]
Right now a Torp raven can out-damage and out-tank a Kronos, and still manage to fit a 20km scram *and* a web. The Kronos and all blaster ships are going to be fairly useless once people figure out how to really start using torp Ravens.
Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
Igetshotalot
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.12.14 06:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Right now a Torp raven can out-damage and out-tank a Kronos, and still manage to fit a 20km scram *and* a web. The Kronos and all blaster ships are going to be fairly useless once people figure out how to really start using torp Ravens.
your stuff can i have now you have to give up all your blaster boats and buy ravens..?
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.12.14 07:09:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Igetshotalot
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Right now a Torp raven can out-damage and out-tank a Kronos, and still manage to fit a 20km scram *and* a web. The Kronos and all blaster ships are going to be fairly useless once people figure out how to really start using torp Ravens.
your stuff can i have now you have to give up all your blaster boats and buy ravens..?
I already have Caldari BS5 for the Rokh. Just gonna mothball all my blaster ships until something changes. Still need to train up Caldari cruiser 5 so I can use the Nighthawk and Falcon.
Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2007.12.14 07:18:00 -
[10]
I'm glad that they pre-nerffed new ships so they aren't solopwndmachines. Look at Heavy Interdiktors.. they need 10 people to .. erm kill them.
It's great being Amarr isn't it.
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Riho
Northen Breeze
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Posted - 2007.12.14 07:24:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kuolematon I'm glad that they pre-nerffed new ships so they aren't solopwndmachines. Look at Heavy Interdiktors.. they need 10 people to .. erm kill them.
but they cant kill a t1 cruiser themselfs really :P
atleast what i tested whit the phobos and broadsword... they do less dmg than the t1 ships (thorax and rupture) :P ---------------------------------- Seems that there's a new game that seems to be very popular whit whiners these days. Its called EFT Online.
dont listen those people.. as they dont have a clue |
MuffinsRevenger
EmpiresMod Koroshiya Buntai
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Posted - 2007.12.14 07:36:00 -
[12]
Protip: Murders might not be made for solo work |
Kcel Chim
Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five
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Posted - 2007.12.14 08:26:00 -
[13]
marauders are pve ships. They are not meant to be solo pvp ships.
Your argument falls in the same category as "why cant i pvp with my bestower" and "why cant my stealthbomber tank sentries".
Every ship has a role and marauders, to repeat it again, are meant to pve.
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Dred'Pirate Jesus
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.12.14 08:39:00 -
[14]
Marauders = The New Caldari Navy Raven
The Pve King Is Dead! Long Live The New Pve Kings*
*Now Available In 4 Yummy Racial Flavors For Your Pve Enjoyment.. Gallente the New Pink«
Originally by: David Hackworth ň If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.14 10:42:00 -
[15]
Another maradeur ehr *cough* golem *cough* thread but i think i still have the same oppinion: golem is useless for combat missions (except as dedicated looting ship, to be employed after mission is finished) cause the cnr has 16.67% more dps + one turrent hardpoint to increase the dps diffrence even more. For pvp the golem makes no sense cause its a) too expensive for pvp, b) has less dps than a standard raven: same dps from launchers, but the standart raven can fit 2 more guns c) is too easy to jam. I don't say it's ccp's fault that this ship is so useless, it were all that whiners that constantly whined in forums in the last months: "omg we dont want an overpowered wtfp0wnmobile".
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Blutreiter
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.12.14 10:55:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Another maradeur ehr *cough* golem *cough* thread but i think i still have the same oppinion: golem is useless for combat missions (except as dedicated looting ship, to be employed after mission is finished) cause the cnr has 16.67% more dps + one turrent hardpoint to increase the dps diffrence even more. For pvp the golem makes no sense cause its a) too expensive for pvp, b) has less dps than a standard raven: same dps from launchers, but the standart raven can fit 2 more guns c) is too easy to jam. I don't say it's ccp's fault that this ship is so useless, it were all that whiners that constantly whined in forums in the last months: "omg we dont want an overpowered wtfp0wnmobile".
Show me one single CNR with a turret
Cogito ergo boom - I think i'll blow sh*t up |
Nomme
Mugen Shipyards
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Posted - 2007.12.14 11:08:00 -
[17]
Malediction-Sacrelige--->Khanid Apoc? I've already seen this ship on Sisi 1 year ago on SiSi,(it was being used by anon player at a game-con,but with lasers Khanid MKII wasn't around then). It follows though that if this ship is introduced to the game it will be more succesful than the Torp Raven up close,being able to fit both scram and painter to its mids and hold tank better. I suspect the Raven will fall into the role of using Cruise Missiles at range,again. Maybe this is another reason the Devs changed Torps,for Khanid MkII,(damn I hope so).
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Trigos Trilobi
Man-Eating Village Idiots
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Posted - 2007.12.14 14:54:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Another maradeur ehr *cough* golem *cough* thread but i think i still have the same oppinion: golem is useless for combat missions (except as dedicated looting ship, to be employed after mission is finished) cause the cnr has 16.67% more dps + one turrent hardpoint to increase the dps diffrence even more.
I don't know about you but I do missions for cash. And for doing cash the golem > cnr. A l4 combat mission might have as high as triple the bounty/reward worth in salvage, and if you can salvage 'on the fly' you save that 10-30min you'd take to salvage with a dedicated ship, which means an unsurpassed isk/hour ratio, CNR won't come even close, 16.67% more dps or not. Even in a poor salvage mission you'll probably manage to pull better isk/hour in a golem.
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Keijo
Hobbit Enterprises GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.14 15:22:00 -
[19]
Hay guys, I just thought of something! If I recall correctly, when someone is scanning for you with probes, the higher your sensor strength, the easier you are to find. Thus, the low sensor strength on marauders makes it easier for you to sit in a deadspace pocket and be un-findable. Maybe we should use marauders for stuff like exploration and missions instead of PvP!!!
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Sorted
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2007.12.14 15:54:00 -
[20]
DUAL LAR + 3 Large Remote rep Kronos gangs?
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Arleonenis
Minmatar NET Profit Trading
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Posted - 2007.12.14 16:31:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Keijo Hay guys, I just thought of something! If I recall correctly, when someone is scanning for you with probes, the higher your sensor strength, the easier you are to find. Thus, the low sensor strength on marauders makes it easier for you to sit in a deadspace pocket and be un-findable. Maybe we should use marauders for stuff like exploration and missions instead of PvP!!!
as far as i know its completly opposite lower the sensor strength its easier to find and bigger the sig radius its easier to find so they are easiest ships to find using probes in sub capital... but im not exploration guru so i may be wrong
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Keijo
Hobbit Enterprises GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.14 18:20:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Keijo on 14/12/2007 18:21:30 Me of a few hours ago, you are an idiot.
From "A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations", Target Signal Size = Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength.
So, as sensor strength goes down, signal size goes up, and you are easier to probe out. I am now forced to /agree with the OP on marauder sensor strength.
Editz: spellingenen.
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