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Calypse
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Posted - 2007.12.22 11:16:00 -
[1]
Hi guys,
For shats and giggles I tried an L4 Gurista Extrav today. HadnÆt done one of those in over a year, so I thought to myself : now that IÆm an even uberer pwn-machine those Guristas will drop like flies. Cuz they always do on other missions.
Just for fun, tho, I decided IÆd go overkill and logged in my second account. Both my pilots have over 50 million SP and fly identical mission-ships : Ravens with a full T2 fitting including XL shield booster (on perma-boost, obviously). I even use shield transporters so whichever Raven gets more Gurista love can be supported by his wingman. I call this combo my ôWin Buttonö, though I donÆt normally use it (whereÆs the challenge ? Plus, leadership bonuses have been bugged for a long time).
So I fly in, shoot the first three steps full of holesà then start finding resistance at the fourth step. OK, I think to myself : CCP has decided to make this an actual Extravaganzaà still, my tanks are airtight and the Guristasà not anymore.
But then thereÆs step 5. Which I can only describe as a player-hate move from CCP.
First you warp in directly into several dozen structures (very good for the lag, thank you).
Then the first rats to come after you are all equipped with target jammers, and because of these structures you have to wait for them to orbit you until you can break out the FoF missiles.
So youÆre basically standing there letting everyone shoot at you. Very funny.
I was thinking öno big dealö until I realized some of these frigates, once killed, triggered multiple-BS spawns that immediately attacked, making it harder and harder to stay there and take it like a man.
And youÆre still getting target-jammed, so you canÆt even start taking down the battleships.
By the time I got (almost) all the frigates, my tank was almost broken from fire from 20-odd battleships. Even with a second ship transferring me shields, I couldnÆt tank that much and had to warp out. Good thing my FoF missiles had wiped out all the warp-jammers.
I figure I can do this mission if I keep warping in and out, but honestly, during the time that takes me I could do four or five ôduos of deathö that would not only give me higher rewards but also less hassle and bring me closer to my next storyline mission.
So I was wondering, are there any pilots out there who donÆt have as much trouble with this mission ? Can this mission be done without a fleet or using faction gear ? Also, do you know when this mission got so hard ? Is it new with Trinity ? A way for CCP to justify the existence of the Marauders ?
Kisses,
Calypse
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Hozac
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Posted - 2007.12.22 11:21:00 -
[2]
Incredibly easy mission. Ever think of perhaps not killing the trigger spawns early on?
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Fondas
FW Inc Exa Nation
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Posted - 2007.12.22 11:29:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Fondas on 22/12/2007 11:29:51 The mission has changed a lot since you last run it. Now it has multiple waves of ships that are triggered by destroying certain ones from the previous one. If you trigger lots of them.... IIRC, leave the elite frigs alone until you have taken care of the big ships
if you trigger carefully , it's a walk in the park
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Calypse
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Posted - 2007.12.22 11:48:00 -
[4]
Well on other missions I do tend not to kill the spawn triggers until they are last (i.e. in Pirate Invasion or Slaughter). Sometimes I just don't bother because I can tank good so I just aim-fire-rinse-repeat.
The problem with the Extrav's 5th step is those elite frigs target-jam you, so you can't kill the battleships. And you can't use FoF missiles either because they'll lock on the closest thing, which will be 50% useless structures and 50% spawn-triggering elite frig.
Do you have any idea how to get around that ? I have a spare high-slot, and can free a low slot, is there a suitable module that could help me punch through all the target jamming ? AFAIK all sensor strength upgrades go in the medium slots.
Calypse
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Shionoya Risa
Caldari The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2007.12.22 12:59:00 -
[5]
The elite frigs that jam in the 5th stage aren't the trigger. So, shoot them.
It'll wither be a Webifier or a Koyukan, more often than not the latter. -----
Quote: Argh! Natural light, get it off me! Get it off me!
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Calypse
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Posted - 2007.12.22 13:37:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Calypse on 22/12/2007 13:37:22
Originally by: Shionoya Risa The elite frigs that jam in the 5th stage aren't the trigger. So, shoot them.
It'll wither be a Webifier or a Koyukan, more often than not the latter.
Thanks mate, that confirms my observation (I wasn't completely sure). Still, those target jammers are a problem : how can I pick them off without touching the triggers ? FoF's are out of the question, and I can't even lock on the Dire frigs before one of them jams me again...
Drones could be part of the solution, now that you can make sure they don't fire on their own, but you still need enough time to get a lock and order them to attack.
The only module I can use to boost my sensor strength (while keeping my shield tank and weapons setup) is to replace my BCS with a Sensor Backup Array. This gives +48% sensor strength : would that be enough to punch through the jamming ?
I'm not even sure how jamming works... all the jamming modules I see on the market have a strength of 2, 3, 6 for the burst ECM... how can that even affect me ? My ship has a sensor strength of 22. AFAIK this is chance-based, which royally sucks, and even so, how come a lousy frig with a lousy 6-point ECM burst ALWAYS manage to jam a ship with a strength of 22 points ? Sounds to me that it should only be able to jam me 25% of the time.
Calypse
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KISOGOKU
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Posted - 2007.12.22 14:02:00 -
[7]
Edited by: KISOGOKU on 22/12/2007 14:05:38 I think you are talking about 4 dire pithi sabouters at 2nd spawn on 5th stage.Target them /wait until you target them and fire on one and put your drones to another. You have perma run setup it will not be hard i think, just dont kill frigates=triggers until you cleared 1st wave.They are pain in the a** and they can keep someone jammed 2-3minutes non-stop. Btw frigates are trigger (if there is only 1 frigate dont kill ,if there are 2 you can kill one) except 3th stage wave 4 Battleship is trigger Good luck ,dire pithi sabouters really annoying
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.22 14:39:00 -
[8]
Did it myself this morning. Seemed as easy as ever. Don't think my NH shields dropped below 80% at any point. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Calypse
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Posted - 2007.12.22 16:14:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Andrue Don't think my NH shields dropped below 80% at any point.
What's NH ? Non-Hardened ? No Hope ?
KISOGOKU : you kinda confused me... in my recent experience, the dire pithi saboteurs were there from the get-go, not in the second spawn (unless I did something very wrong ?) so I never got a chance to target anything. I'd get jammed half-way through targeting a rat.
Also, I don't know about any BS being triggers : I could only whack the frigates orbiting me but still managed to spawn everything including the rat boss (3rd or 4th spawn).
I'll go at it again now. I suppose the mission is reset since downtime so I should be able to try different things.
Calypse
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KISOGOKU
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Posted - 2007.12.22 17:43:00 -
[10]
Edited by: KISOGOKU on 22/12/2007 17:44:59 Ge stage 5 warp in(=1st wave to me) 2 sentries /1 heavy Missile battery /2 Bs/2BC/4destroyer/2 frigate 2nd wave = 3 or 4 BS/4 Dire pithi saboteours /1 frig you killed frigate (Guristas Webifier or Guristas Kyoukan) and 2nd wave spawned. And yes i have a list of all of rats for all stages and waves in GE ,ill send to eve-survival when someday imnot lazy edit: NH=Nighthawk
Originally by: Calypse
KISOGOKU : you kinda confused me... in my recent experience, the dire pithi saboteurs were there from the get-go,
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Calypse
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Posted - 2007.12.22 18:26:00 -
[11]
OK Guys I went through the mission again, in "study mode" (taking my time, killing one rat at a time) Here's what I observed :
- The ONLY rats that trigger a spawn are the Kyoukans. Anything else is fair game. Exception : on the third step, a spawn is triggered by killing a Pithatis Assaulter.
- No spawn is larger than 4 BS + escorts, meaning this mission is indeed a milk run. Compared to my first nimrodesque attempt, this time I didn't need my second Raven to do anything (it just helped kill the BS to save a little time)
- I used drones against all the frigates, but only because I think it looks cool
- In step 5, here's what happened : when the dire pithi jammers warped in, they ALMOST immediately started to jam me. I only had time to shoot one down with missile and send my drones on another. Turns out it's all that was needed : the survivors didn't manage to jam me before I could kill them. Still, I'll have to try electronic warfare next time...
Now, I'm contemplating the gate to the bonus area and wondering if I should tempt fate... any of you guys know what's in there ?
For the record, here's the setup for the Raven I used (ALL items can be bought in store, and you probably can make the rigs from your own salvage) :
- Raven hull (duh) - Highs : 6 cruise launchers + 1 large shield transporter - Med : 2 kinetic and 1 thermic hards (passive) + 2 cap rechargers + XL Shield Booster - Low : BCS + 4 PDS => ALL modules are tech II (cost 1 to 2 million each) - Rigs : 2 CCC + 1 Warhead Calefaction (missile damage boost) - Ammo : regular Wrath cruise missiles - I normally leave a tech II NERF Crossbow in the last high slot for dealing with frigate rats (if I'm in a playful mood )
The pilot I used only has attribute implants, and all skills used in that setup to level 5.
You get a 130 million ship (w/o rigs) that can shield boost forever and is pretty much perfect for all missions involving Guristas and Sanshas (you can guess where its major weakness is)
Calypse
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Calypse
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Posted - 2007.12.22 18:33:00 -
[12]
I was about to do the bonus stage but the gate told me to find a gurista tag before. Couldn't be bothered to loot so I just stopped there.
Calypse
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Oftherocks
Of The Rocks Corp
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Posted - 2007.12.22 19:58:00 -
[13]
You will need a guristas diamond tag, just buy one and take it with you, it does NOT get consumed. The bonus stage is actually easier than the 5th stage. You should do it for the bounties and the rare faction mod drop.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2007.12.22 22:50:00 -
[14]
The way I understand NPC jamming, it doesn't actually calculate your sensor strength. So, trying to combat them with ECCM is wasting slots.
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Calypse
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Posted - 2007.12.22 23:11:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Wet Ferret The way I understand NPC jamming, it doesn't actually calculate your sensor strength. So, trying to combat them with ECCM is wasting slots.
Yeah, +48% of diddly-squat didn't sound like it would amount to a heck of a lot so I didn't bother trying.
You know, I've been playing this game for years. For as long as I can remember NPC's have always had insane ECM. I remember three years ago how I was a happy sniper (before deadspace, when kiting was the name of the game, I used to fly snipe-o-calypses, hence my name) and I would have FRIGATES (inties didn't exist yet) jamming me from 140 km away.
I'm guessing NPC's skills don't stop at level 5
More like level 20
Plus they must have special faction skill-books like "uber-long range ECM" and "loot desintegration"
Calypse
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WardogX
Outkasts
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Posted - 2007.12.23 08:21:00 -
[16]
when in doubt guys just pop the cheapest bounty ships 1st and save the highest bounty ship for last to avoid prematurely triggering more then you can or want to handle.
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Caelestial
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Posted - 2007.12.23 10:02:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Calypse Both my pilots have over 50 million SP and fly identical mission-ships : Ravens with a full T2 fitting including XL shield booster (on perma-boost, obviously).
Did this mission 3 times in a row when I was between 3m and 4m SP... (nothing close to XL perma-boost, no T2 hardeners and no T2 cruise) never had any problem.
As for all L4 missions, just know the triggers and fly through it easily
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Zaqar
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Posted - 2007.12.23 11:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Wet Ferret The way I understand NPC jamming, it doesn't actually calculate your sensor strength. So, trying to combat them with ECCM is wasting slots.
Is this actually true? Anyone got a source?
Reason I ask is because I was testing a Kronos on sisi the other day and it got perma-jammed on a GE. I've flown that mission with Domi, Raven, Astarte, Nighthawk and I've never experienced that sort of jamming before.
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.12.23 16:21:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Zaqar
Originally by: Wet Ferret The way I understand NPC jamming, it doesn't actually calculate your sensor strength. So, trying to combat them with ECCM is wasting slots.
Is this actually true? Anyone got a source?
Reason I ask is because I was testing a Kronos on sisi the other day and it got perma-jammed on a GE. I've flown that mission with Domi, Raven, Astarte, Nighthawk and I've never experienced that sort of jamming before.
It is confirmed by dev in 'game development' forum section in some thread complaining about defender missiles and low sensor strenght of marauders. Defenders are propablity based per missile launched and NPC E-War is flat out propability based ignoring all forms of EW-Immunity (they can even jam motherships and dreads in siege).
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.23 17:15:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Calypse OK Guys I went through the mission again, in "study mode" (taking my time, killing one rat at a time) Here's what I observed :
...
I clicked on a browser bookmark. Here's what I observed :
-- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
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Dark Solaris
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Posted - 2007.12.23 17:22:00 -
[21]
Long live to Droners!!!!
Yes indeed drones are the best solution here, for a moment. I usually deal with Serpentis elite cruisers with a lot of targeting jammers. I think it could be the same with Gueritas. There is some trick we should know is that if you warp within the range of those jammers, they will always be the first to attack you, with jamming device of course. And fortunately the drones have brain, even if they feel no pain heheh. Yes, the drones will respond to any form of hostile attack and with a good order unless you intervene. So the first thing to do on such situation is to release your drones as fast as possible. If you proceed correctly, they will wipe out most of the jammers. Then the rest would be dealt by you.
It was true that jammers made me nervous or the first time but now they are just another piece of cake to be taken before the meal begins. Good luck pales.
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Lazuran
Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2007.12.23 19:08:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Carniflex
Originally by: Zaqar
Originally by: Wet Ferret The way I understand NPC jamming, it doesn't actually calculate your sensor strength. So, trying to combat them with ECCM is wasting slots.
Is this actually true? Anyone got a source?
Reason I ask is because I was testing a Kronos on sisi the other day and it got perma-jammed on a GE. I've flown that mission with Domi, Raven, Astarte, Nighthawk and I've never experienced that sort of jamming before.
It is confirmed by dev in 'game development' forum section in some thread complaining about defender missiles and low sensor strenght of marauders. Defenders are propablity based per missile launched and NPC E-War is flat out propability based ignoring all forms of EW-Immunity (they can even jam motherships and dreads in siege).
I'm quite sure that NPCs jamming motherships was fixed a few patches ago, although I cannot find a link now ...
Disclaimer: I do not speak for the fanbois. |
Terrorv1z
Caldari InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.12.23 21:31:00 -
[23]
I've not done this since Trinity but I used to have no problems doing the main levels of this with a Small Gisti A-type SB Cerb or completing all main & bonus stages with cheap CNR. Just kill the groups as they attack (even if more spawn) & you should have no problem. Bonus needs faction fitting or some sort of support really.
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Prien
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Posted - 2007.12.23 23:35:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Prien on 23/12/2007 23:42:35 Hi,
I have just flown this mission 20 minutes ago, in a standard raven with 6 arby cruise, 2 large Nos's, 2 therm II's, 2 kinetic II's, 1 x shield boost amp II and XL shield booster II. Low slots I used 2 x cap flux coil II's, 1 x CPU II, 1 x BCU II & 1 x DCU II.
Yes 5th stage is far harder than 4 prior stages. I warped out twice. Problem I found was that I avoided the triggers all the way through save this last stage. Your enter the 5 stage and warp right into a gate of some description, therefore you can't cloak or anything like that to sneakily get some distance. Immediately you notice a shedload of frigates - not 1 or two like the earlier stages but lots of them and within spitting distance of you. Collectively they do quite a bit of damage so it's natural that you start popping them. (When I do this again, I will resist that particular urge). Then low and behold, there's about 20 BS's beating down on you before you know what day it is, oh and your webbed and pretty much jammed for 2-3 minutes intervals just for good measure.
So 3rd time back I'd cleared all the frigs. I then followed one of the dismantler's about and managed to get 2 NOS's on him whilst I opened up on his pals. I could nearly perma run the XL booster this way and commenced clearing the BS's with Navy Cruise (much better than standard cruise btw but get ready for the bill - typically 3k each) and I also used Vespa II's in tandem with the cruise to wear the BS's down quicker.
Slowly but surely I got the better of them. Salvage was a joke. So many empty BS wrecks it was a joke. If I ran this again I'm not sure that I would bother with the salvage. Well I probably would but it would pain me a bit.
Certainly doable solo in a standard raven with standard tech 2 gear but be prepared to warp out once or twice to get through it.
Hope this helps.
Regards
P
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achoura
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Posted - 2007.12.23 23:52:00 -
[25]
If you don't own a gist booster fit an injector for the bonus room, saves the warp outs. ***The EVE servers and their patches*** |
Par'Gellen
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.24 05:19:00 -
[26]
I run this mission in a dual-rep Domi with no trouble. Luckily drones don't require a target lock after you kick them in the butt and get them moving. Now, if I were using weapons that required a lock I'd be ticked as well. ---
To err is human. But it shouldn't be the company motto... |
Zaqar
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Posted - 2007.12.24 09:08:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Prien 2 therm II's, 2 kinetic II's
Swap it for 3 x kin, 1 x therm. The vast majority of gurista damage is kinetic.
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SheriffFruitfly
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2007.12.24 19:51:00 -
[28]
I guess I don't get it. Is there anything here that eve-survival + drones doesn't suffice for?
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