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why does the inside of a frisbee spin faster than outside? (proof)

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gahazord huffengaf	Posted - 2007.12.23 03:45:00 - [1] i do not understand this concept. please explain.
RogueWing Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.23 03:49:00 - [2] The outside actually spins faster. If you were to unroll the frisbee into a straight line, then the "outside" line would be longer than the "inside" line. They both spin for the same amount of time. But, since the outside covers further territory than the inside does in the same amount of time, then it must be traveling faster. If goons are giving you "respect" on CAOD, you pretty much know what you just did was a pile of .
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.23 05:28:00 - [3] 42.
Tallen Zek	Posted - 2007.12.23 05:56:00 - [4] wow nice reply RogueWing, vary detailed.
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2007.12.23 12:09:00 - [5] It doesn't. The inside spins at exactly the same angular velocity as te outside. If you're talking about transversal velocity (which would be silly), then the outside would be moving faster than the inside. --------------------------------------------------------------------
Sister Impotentata Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2007.12.23 12:26:00 - [6] Do we have "transversal velocity" in real life? Or were you just using a term we already "understand"? If pressed, I would have called it "tangential velocity". ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by: Psycho John Petrucci If there's any point where you feel it's too difficult, then just stop. Because you just, you don't have it, you're just not good.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.23 12:36:00 - [7] Because it is circular. - DesuSigs
Sister Impotentata Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2007.12.23 12:46:00 - [8] Originally by: Crumplecorn Because it is circular. You... asked for it: Ever notice when ducks are flying together in V formation, sometimes one side of the V is longer than the other? Know why that is? ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by: Psycho John Petrucci If there's any point where you feel it's too difficult, then just stop. Because you just, you don't have it, you're just not good.
Gladiator Jonny Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.12.23 13:03:00 - [9] Originally by: Sister Impotentata Originally by: Crumplecorn Because it is circular. You... asked for it: Ever notice when ducks are flying together in V formation, sometimes one side of the V is longer than the other? Know why that is? Because one duck got drunk and passed out, leaving one side without a duck?
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.23 13:12:00 - [10] Originally by: Sister Impotentata Originally by: Crumplecorn Because it is circular. You... asked for it: Ever notice when ducks are flying together in V formation, sometimes one side of the V is longer than the other? Know why that is? Because they are ducks, and thus cannot count. - DesuSigs
Sister Impotentata Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2007.12.23 13:14:00 - [11] Originally by: Gladiator Jonny Because one duck got drunk and passed out, leaving one side without a duck? Ducks don't pass out. Those duckers can drink like the **ens. But basically, yes. "One side has more ducks." ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by:** Psycho John Petrucci If there's any point where you feel it's too difficult, then just stop. Because you just, you don't have it, you're just not good.
Gyfrex Minmatar Defile.	Posted - 2007.12.23 13:26:00 - [12] I always thought it was because someone shot down some of the ducks on one side and so they were retreating from their attack run, silly formation to use to be fair but still!. Anyway to the OP: The inside spinning faster is just a trick of the eye, as others have said the outside is moving faster. ---
Karma Gallente Vortex Incorporated	Posted - 2007.12.23 13:28:00 - [13] Originally by: Sister Impotentata Ducks don't pass out. Those duckers can drink like the ****ens. But basically, yes. "One side has more ducks." it could potentially also be because the distance between the ducks in the longer side is bigger.
Sister Impotentata Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2007.12.23 13:30:00 - [14] Or perhaps the ducks on the shorter side are smaller. I'll be disappointed if someone doesn't drag relativity into this. I won't do it, because I don't like to hog all the fun. ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by: Psycho John Petrucci If there's any point where you feel it's too difficult, then just stop. Because you just, you don't have it, you're just not good.
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2007.12.23 13:30:00 - [15] i'm having duck for dinner christmas eve, mb that's the one that's missing in the v formation
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2007.12.23 15:49:00 - [16] Originally by: Sister Impotentata Do we have "transversal velocity" in real life? Or were you just using a term we already "understand"? If pressed, I would have called it "tangential velocity". Moot point really, the two terms mean exactly the same thing. --------------------------------------------------------------------
Victor Ivanov Minmatar The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.23 15:56:00 - [17] Little known fact about ducks: Due to their hollowed bone structure as well as their reality warping squawking noise, gravity does not actually pull a duck downwards. No, as scientists have observed, a duck's gravitational pull is actually angular in a direction inversely relative to its mass. Thus, the position of any arbitrary duck on the space time continuum plane (Imagine a large rubber blanket with dents relative to the mass of the objects) is slightly to the side of where it should be. This obviously makes whatever embodiment of deified omnipotence you believe in extremely vexed, thus the ducks, far more intelligent than they are usually given credit for, have compensated for this by flying in unsymmetrical formations. This also explains a duck's waddling. ----------------------
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.12.23 16:08:00 - [18] Originally by: Victor Ivanov Little known fact about ducks: Due to their hollowed bone structure as well as their reality warping squawking noise, gravity does not actually pull a duck downwards. No, as scientists have observed, a duck's gravitational pull is actually angular in a direction inversely relative to its mass. Thus, the position of any arbitrary duck on the space time continuum plane (Imagine a large rubber blanket with dents relative to the mass of the objects) is slightly to the side of where it should be. This obviously makes whatever embodiment of deified omnipotence you believe in extremely vexed, thus the ducks, far more intelligent than they are usually given credit for, have compensated for this by flying in unsymmetrical formations. This also explains a duck's waddling. We will debate anything on these forums! I would have to go with because ducks try to travel in even numbers so therefore, there is always going to be one leg of the v that is shorter. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Karma Gallente Vortex Incorporated	Posted - 2007.12.23 16:16:00 - [19] if they were smart, they'd travel in single file, to hide their numbers.
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.12.23 16:37:00 - [20] Originally by: Karma if they were smart, they'd travel in single file, to hide their numbers. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Araxmas The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency	Posted - 2007.12.23 16:45:00 - [21] Thye fly in a V because the distortion in wind behind a duck will disrupt any other ducks that will fly behind thus a V means they dont get diry air or whatever you call it. But the reason why some are more on one side than the other is due to Farmer George and his 12 bore. -------- The Derek Quote Pyramid
Sister Impotentata Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2007.12.23 16:48:00 - [22] Originally by: Araxmas Thye fly in a V because the distortion in wind behind a duck will disrupt any other ducks that will fly behind thus a V means they dont get diry air or whatever you call it. But the reason why some are more on one side than the other is due to Farmer George and his 12 bore. For what it's worth, the ducks on the ends are doing the most work. The one up front is almost getting a free ride. ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by: Psycho John Petrucci If there's any point where you feel it's too difficult, then just stop. Because you just, you don't have it, you're just not good.
Avery Fatwallet	Posted - 2007.12.23 18:07:00 - [23] i always thought birds flying in v formation is an aerodynamic thing. just like a team of bicycle racers. and if one side has more than the other, it probably has something to do with the direction of the wind, no? i never spend much time thinking about it, i just assumed thats the most logical explanation...
Max Nero Endless Fury	Posted - 2007.12.23 18:21:00 - [24] But will it blend? Originally by: Niklo Game to become is more and more similar to prison for not aggressive people.
Sister Impotentata Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2007.12.23 18:51:00 - [25] Originally by: Avery Fatwallet i always thought birds flying in v formation is an aerodynamic thing. just like a team of bicycle racers. and if one side has more than the other, it probably has something to do with the direction of the wind, no? i never spend much time thinking about it, i just assumed thats the most logical explanation... You've already spent too much time thinking about it . It was a -type joke and I made the mistake of not giving the punchline right away, which opened it up to Serious OT Contemplation. Once more, for clarity: Ever notice when ducks are flying together in V formation, sometimes one side of the V is longer than the other? Know why that is? Because there's more ducks on that side. Now you and groan, and ask me never to do that again. ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by: Psycho John Petrucci If there's any point where you feel it's too difficult, then just stop. Because you just, you don't have it, you're just not good.
Avery Fatwallet	Posted - 2007.12.23 19:12:00 - [26] no, now i get it, and i find it very funny :) im not very concentrated atm. i had to work with vista an hour ago. anyways... is my v-flight assumption correct, in rl?
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.23 19:17:00 - [27] Originally by: Karma if they were smart, they'd travel in single file, to hide their numbers. ------ Originally by: CCP Prism X There's no such thing as playing too much EvE! You all obviously need more accounts!
Sister Impotentata Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2007.12.23 19:29:00 - [28] Originally by: Avery Fatwallet is my v-flight assumption correct, in rl? Don't really know exactly. Alls I know is that the bird up front rides the bow wave of the bird behind it, like dolphins riding a ship's bow wave. No idea how you would adjust the technique to account for wind. If I had to speculate, I'd say that on a broad reach (wind from a rear quarter), I think you might want more birds on the windward side. Birds to leeward would tend to have their bow waves blown away from the formation, while those to windward, the bow wave would blow right up the forward birds arse. ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by: Psycho John Petrucci If there's any point where you feel it's too difficult, then just stop. Because you just, you don't have it, you're just not good.
Motokko	Posted - 2007.12.23 19:41:00 - [29] Originally by: Sister Impotentata Originally by: Avery Fatwallet is my v-flight assumption correct, in rl? Don't really know exactly. Alls I know is that the bird up front rides the bow wave of the bird behind it, like dolphins riding a ship's bow wave. No idea how you would adjust the technique to account for wind. If I had to speculate, I'd say that on a broad reach (wind from a rear quarter), I think you might want more birds on the windward side. Birds to leeward would tend to have their bow waves blown away from the formation, while those to windward, the bow wave would blow right up the forward birds arse. I dont think there's that much too it. Simply, every so often the bird at the front will fly to one of the ends to give another bird a break at the front. This is how they can keep flying for so long since they all help each other out. This behaviour however isn't the result of active team co-operation and communication, its just a built in instinct that has developed over time. When the bird at the front decides its time to give someone else a go it just picks left or right indiscriminently. Therefore the v is likely to deviate from symmetry but statistically never that far. I'm sure if you were to observe birds flying in formation in the same winds you'd see formations distorted in each direction
Jaerl Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.23 21:16:00 - [30] You know, I think this has deviated somewhat from the OP's original subject. From frisbees to the finer points of aviation formations of ducks isn't really a great comparison... The way I see it - Point A (near the centre) and Point B (near the edge) both have the same angular velocity, hertz, or rotations around the same point (centre) in a certain amount of time. Speaking of terms of actual distance travelled, Point B has travelled much further in the same amount of time, so Point B travels faster. For example (a non-duck related one, a good one...) it's very much the same with the gears of a bicycle. Higher gear (small size, 'A') is less pedal energy input for more tyrespin output (bigger tyres than gears, 'B'). I can't honestly see how the inside of a frisbee would be travelling faster than the outside, unless you're seeing it from some strange extra-dimensional perspective.
Sister Impotentata Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2007.12.23 22:03:00 - [31] Originally by: Jaerl I can't honestly see how the inside of a frisbee would be travelling faster than the outside, unless you're seeing it from some strange extra-dimensional perspective. Orbital Mechanics has the concept he's seeing. Higher orbits have lower orbital velocity than lower orbits. (RL orbits defined by gravity, not EVE forced-orbits). Yet the mechanics that get you there are counterintuitive. To speed up, you slow down. To slow down, you speed up. To move retrograde in the same orbit, you thrust out. To move prograde in the same orbit, you thrust down. Normal and antinormal bring you back. ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by: Psycho John Petrucci If there's any point where you feel it's too difficult, then just stop. Because you just, you don't have it, you're just not good.
Karma Gallente Vortex Incorporated	Posted - 2007.12.23 22:11:00 - [32] perhaps the OP meant to ask 'why does a frisbee spin faster inside (indoors) than outside (outdoors)' ... ?
Jaerl Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.23 22:27:00 - [33] Originally by: Karma perhaps the OP meant to ask 'why does a frisbee spin faster inside (indoors) than outside (outdoors)' ... ? That would have saved my brain exploding from Sister Impotenta's previous post. Seriously though, I hope you just made all that up and that is some sort of new-maths, because reading all that made my brain hurt from too many long words. Up is down and slow is fast?
Sister Impotentata Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2007.12.23 23:08:00 - [34] Originally by: Jaerl That would have saved my brain exploding from Sister Impotenta's previous post. Seriously though, I hope you just made all that up and that is some sort of new-maths, because reading all that made my brain hurt from too many long words. Up is down and slow is fast? Orbiter is the long answer, and will give you much understanding. For the short answer, you're going to have to wait because I have some last minute "christmas shopping" to do. If I'm sober enough when I get back, I might get into it. If you want to do your own thought experiment while I'm out: Consider a weight at the end of a string. Twirl it around your head. Bring it in close, and you have to twirl wicked fast. "Wheewheehweeheehee". Let it out far and you only have to twirl it slow, "WhoooWhumphwoooUmphwooo." Now, when you want to go from in-fast to out-slow, you whip it harder. When you want to go from out-slow to in-fast, you'll do what I do: cheat and pull the string in. But that's like arbitrarily increasing gravity. To do it right, you let the weight slow down, and take up the slack. Now disregard the string and continue on your own, for "out takes you back" and "in takes you forward". ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by: Psycho John Petrucci If there's any point where you feel it's too difficult, then just stop. Because you just, you don't have it, you're just not good.
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2007.12.24 02:57:00 - [35] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 24/12/2007 03:02:23 totally besides the op but interesting they follow the complex magnetic grids of earth as their internal compass when they migrate or fly in general. they also use this type of interaction in regards to avoid hitting eachother when flying in formation when going in their fast paced speeds and doing sudden shifts in direction. ingenious design as for gravity well science doesn't really truthfully know what gravity is, they just know that it works but they are still quite clueless as to exactly how it works, faith, seeing is believing. anyways, looking forward to duckie for christmas dinner, merry christmas everyone.
brennan reed	Posted - 2007.12.24 09:32:00 - [36] speaking of the outside of a frisbee moving faster than the inside, does that mean my head is traveling faster than my feet? I mean, the earth is rotating just like a frisbee and my head is closer to the outside.
Jaerl Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.24 09:58:00 - [37] I think we might be wandering into gravity (mass) vs. centrifugals (spin) here, but yes - your head is moving faster than your feet according to that theory... does that mean according to relativity your head is slightly older than your feet when you die?
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.12.24 10:02:00 - [38] Originally by: RogueWing The outside actually spins faster. If you were to unroll the frisbee into a straight line, then the "outside" line would be longer than the "inside" line. They both spin for the same amount of time. But, since the outside covers further territory than the inside does in the same amount of time, then it must be traveling faster. This. Its the same reason the Earth accelerates at the extremes of its orbit around the sun; we must cover a greater distance in the same time. And ducks fly in a V-shaped formation because of wing-tip vortices and the lift generated by them, not the drag induced on the animals themselves. Only thing of value I learned in my fluids class.
Miki Fin Gallente Independant Union of Rangers	Posted - 2007.12.24 12:19:00 - [39] Listen, in order to maintain air-speed velocity, a swallow needs to beat its wings forty-three times every second, right?
Sister Impotentata Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2007.12.24 14:06:00 - [40] Depends on the type of swallow. Y'all know that the stork brings babies, right? Well you know what keeps babies away? Two Swallows. ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by: Psycho John Petrucci If there's any point where you feel it's too difficult, then just stop. Because you just, you don't have it, you're just not good.
Sister Impotentata Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2007.12.24 14:44:00 - [41] Originally by: brennan reed speaking of the outside of a frisbee moving faster than the inside, does that mean my head is traveling faster than my feet? I mean, the earth is rotating just like a frisbee and my head is closer to the outside. Yes, by about one part in three and a half million at the equator, diminishing to almost nothing at the poles. However during the day, when your head is pointed at the sun, the earth's motion around the sun decreases the relative motion, it increases at night. Assuming you're not in bed, sleeping. Keep in mind also that time runs at different rates between your head and your feet. I think it runs slightly faster at your head. So the effect is magnified. ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by: Psycho John Petrucci If there's any point where you feel it's too difficult, then just stop. Because you just, you don't have it, you're just not good.
insanebe Caldari Swordbruden Mining and Security Service Inc. Rare Faction	Posted - 2007.12.24 18:30:00 - [42] You need to be careful hear in what you measure, i.e you need to measure the number of spins of the frisby so obviously when you think about it its crazy to think the inside has somehow detached itself from the outside and down 2 complete spins while the outside has done only one spin, so the number of rotations is the same knowledge is power.... guard it well
Frezik Basically Outdated Stereo Equiptment	Posted - 2007.12.24 18:54:00 - [43] This is my favorite thread in a long time. Did you guys know that: ∞ + 1 = ∞ And: (∞ - ∞) + 1 = ∞ - ∞ Therefore: 1 = 0 Yay for math!
Sister Impotentata Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2007.12.24 20:03:00 - [44] I thought ∞ was transcendental, and therefore not subject to algebraic rules, but a quick look does not support either of my beliefs. Either way, I would have thought that (∞-∞)+1=∞ ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by: Psycho John Petrucci If there's any point where you feel it's too difficult, then just stop. Because you just, you don't have it, you're just not good.
Frezik Basically Outdated Stereo Equiptment	Posted - 2007.12.24 20:15:00 - [45] Originally by: Sister Impotentata I thought ∞ was transcendental, and therefore not subject to algebraic rules, but a quick look does not support either of my beliefs. Yes, that's basically what the above proves; you can't use infinity as a number like that. Either that, or you just proved that the universe blew up. Note that if you turn in a thesis proving the universe blew up, you're probably not going to get a doctorate.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.12.24 21:17:00 - [46] Originally by: Frezik This is my favorite thread in a long time. Did you guys know that: ∞ + 1 = ∞ And: (∞ - ∞) + 1 = ∞ - ∞ Therefore: 1 = 0 Yay for math! Infinity is not a number, and thus you cannot do algebraic operations on it. Its like saying apple + orange = orapple. A function can go TO infinity, but it does not equal infinity, as infinity is a philosphical conceptual rather than a tangible "thing" or number.
Sister Impotentata Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2007.12.24 21:27:00 - [47] Edited by: Sister Impotentata on 24/12/2007 21:30:02 Merry Christmas, DV. I wish you the best, and good luck with finals. ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by: Psycho John Petrucci If there's any point where you feel it's too difficult, then just stop. Because you just, you don't have it, you're just not good.
Frezik Basically Outdated Stereo Equiptment	Posted - 2007.12.24 21:30:00 - [48] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Infinity is not a number, and thus you cannot do algebraic operations on it. Its like saying apple + orange = orapple. A function can go TO infinity, but it does not equal infinity, as infinity is a philosphical conceptual rather than a tangible "thing" or number. So much for a sense of humor . . . I'm rather fond of the above proof. It shows a concept a lot of people struggle with (infinity is not a number) without using anything more than basic algebra.
Bob Stuart Federation Fleet Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.12.25 02:06:00 - [49] Ducks, geese and swans have differing lift and drag coefficients. This means that the number of birds to form a V (or skein as it is called when it is composed of geese) with a particular aerodynamic efficiency differs between species. In all cases though, as the number of birds increases, the efficiency of the formation increases. One of our aerodynamics classes at university had an exercise on calculating the numbers of birds to achieve a particular efficiency. Someone thought they would try to be funny, and ask about the African and European swallows, but since swallows do not beat their wings continuously, as geese/swans/ducks do, instead they fly with bursts and glides, the equations do not apply. As a result, the person was made to stand in the corner and think carefully about what they did for the rest of the lecture. Of course, that was nearly 10 years ago, so I don't think such teaching methods are allowed these days, in case they infringe upon people's right to self-expression.
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.25 08:44:00 - [50] a = b + 1 (a-b)a = (a-b)(b+1) a2 - ab = ab + a - b2 - b a2 - ab -a = ab + a -a - b2 - b a(a - b - 1) = b(a - b - 1) a = b b + 1 = b Therefore, 1 = 0. lolmath
Seroquel	Posted - 2007.12.25 09:00:00 - [51] an aeroplane on a treadmill will take off. true story. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Seroquel	Posted - 2007.12.25 09:02:00 - [52] dividing by zero crits you for 9000 Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf a = b + 1 (a-b)a = (a-b)(b+1) a2 - ab = ab + a - b2 - b a2 - ab -a = ab + a -a - b2 - b a(a - b - 1) = b(a - b - 1) a = b b + 1 = b Therefore, 1 = 0. lolmath (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
slipshade	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:55:00 - [53] This is an issue that that designers of the earlier CD rom drives had to figure out... Problem was soleved using a thechique called CAV or constant angular velocity. which basicly menas the RPM of the drive is adjusted as the laser travels outwards. Its also a cunning way for optical drive manufacturer's to "trick" you into thinking you are getting a better drive by saying you have a "40x" drive, when in reality its only going this fast for a short period of time
Karma Gallente Vortex Incorporated	Posted - 2007.12.25 12:15:00 - [54] Originally by: slipshade Its also a cunning way for optical drive manufacturer's to "trick" you into thinking you are getting a better drive by saying you have a "40x" drive, when in reality its only going this fast for a short period of time yes, but if say a 30x drive is also only going that fast for a short period of time, then a 40x drive would still be faster than a 30x drive. so all's good ;)
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.26 06:47:00 - [55] Originally by: Seroquel dividing by zero crits you for 9000 OH SHI-
Alena Lemming	Posted - 2007.12.28 07:48:00 - [56] im bored and u have all almost got the answer right. the bird at the front is causing a vortex with its wing beat (like concord/747's (the pictures u see on tv) the birds close behind on either side gain additional lift by this vortex, so they have less work to do. so the guy up front is doing the hardest work and giving the others a boost. they will swap places when he gets annoyed or tired, so eventually on a long trip everyone wil have had a go at the front(unless one or two happen to be selfish old bird's). the reason why one side might be longer is just down to that side being picked by the last bird in front when it took a break from being point. Also see under tailgating, F1 racing cars, etc.. the guy tailgaiting is getting a boost in efficiency by getting close enough that the guy in front is moving all the air(and suffering the effects of drag) whilst the tailgater is tucked into the vortex (disturbed air) immediatly behind, though he will suffer less downforce on his front spoiler. the answer 42 might come into it, but you'll have to ask ferarri if they incorporated it into their designs(then again you could ask any of the other teams since they seem to have been suffering a sudden outbreak of P2P during the last year or so).
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.12.28 08:30:00 - [57] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: RogueWing The outside actually spins faster. If you were to unroll the frisbee into a straight line, then the "outside" line would be longer than the "inside" line. They both spin for the same amount of time. But, since the outside covers further territory than the inside does in the same amount of time, then it must be traveling faster. This. Its the same reason the Earth accelerates at the extremes of its orbit around the sun; we must cover a greater distance in the same time. And ducks fly in a V-shaped formation because of wing-tip vortices and the lift generated by them, not the drag induced on the animals themselves. Only thing of value I learned in my fluids class. and at a smaller scale why the earth rotates faster at the equator and slower at the poles. however the angular velocity is the same. which is an important note to keep in mind. pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.12.28 08:34:00 - [58] If a post about spining objects is posted on the EvE-o forums at 2 posts and hours and the angular velocity of the earth relative to iceland is a constant, how long until the thread will derail into ducks? pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P
Plaetean Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.28 08:52:00 - [59] thread delivers -----
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.28 13:49:00 - [60] If God had intended us to understand this stuff, he would have made us birds. - DesuSigs
Bob Stuart Federation Fleet Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.12.28 14:52:00 - [61] Originally by: Sister Impotentata I'm still not entirely convinced that "lead bird works hardest". Lissaman and Shollenberger (1970) "Formation Flight of Birds", Science, vol. 168, no. 3934, "A vee formation is required to equally distribute the drag saving, and, contrary to other statements, the lead bird does not necessarily have the most strenuous position" However, other works such as: Andersson and Wallander (2004) "Kin selection and reciprocity in flight formation?", Behavioral Ecology 2004 15: 158-162, says that in acute-V formations, the leader works hardest, while in other formations, the energy savings are more equally distributed. Acute-V seem to allow the highest flock speed. This suggests the reason for taking the lead position is that it benefits others, such as a parent taking the lead to benefit it's offspring. Birds that try to avoid the lead get dealt with, because the birds can recognise each other easily. In other species, the more egalitarian formations are used because there's less benefit.

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