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TECHA
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Posted - 2007.12.28 12:03:00 -
[1]
I was wondering with the new ships and various changes who has the crown ? Crown being hardest tank to break ... this is for mission running ! After trying a few BS ( the machariel seems to be better than the rattlesnake on paper - can anyone confirm this ? ). I come back to the idea that T2 ships with there high natural resists are very hard to beat. Yes I also know that some ships have better EM resists and others better thermal , etc. So maybe it might need to be split into different NPC pirate grouping . Thanks
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Arthur Frayn
Veterans Of Liberation Ltd. THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.28 12:12:00 -
[2]
Rattlesnake is brilliant for mission tanking. I solo every level 4 with mine using an active tank and damage mods coming out of my arse for guns and launchers. It eats everything. Also having 16000+ shield points with skills and no shield extenders helps bigtime.
As for the best passive tank, the Vulture will always be king until CCP releases a tech 2 Rokh with similar resists and an even shorter regen time.
-- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes. |
Lazuran
Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2007.12.28 12:19:00 -
[3]
Originally by: TECHA Crown being hardest tank to break ... this is for mission running !
I recommend a Drake... Worry-free passive tank 500+ DPS with low SP, enough DPS to do the hardest L4 missions, very pimpable with Faction gear and cheap to start with.
Max. easily obtainable DPS with cheap gear and good passive tank is around 342 + Drones with T1 missiles.
Disclaimer: I do not speak for the fanbois. |
Arthur Frayn
Veterans Of Liberation Ltd. THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.28 12:23:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 28/12/2007 12:23:53
Originally by: Lazuran
Originally by: TECHA Crown being hardest tank to break ... this is for mission running !
I recommend a Drake... Worry-free passive tank 500+ DPS with low SP, enough DPS to do the hardest L4 missions, very pimpable with Faction gear and cheap to start with.
Max. easily obtainable DPS with cheap gear and good passive tank is around 342 + Drones with T1 missiles.
The Drake has barely enough DPS to handle the hardest L4's. There are some NPC battleship tanks that take a loooong time and several launcher reloads to break. Plus, you'll eventually try to chew your own face off when each mission takes two hours to complete.
-- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes. |
Lazuran
Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2007.12.28 12:38:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Lazuran on 28/12/2007 12:38:44
Originally by: Arthur Frayn Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 28/12/2007 12:23:53
Originally by: Lazuran
Originally by: TECHA Crown being hardest tank to break ... this is for mission running !
I recommend a Drake... Worry-free passive tank 500+ DPS with low SP, enough DPS to do the hardest L4 missions, very pimpable with Faction gear and cheap to start with.
Max. easily obtainable DPS with cheap gear and good passive tank is around 342 + Drones with T1 missiles.
The Drake has barely enough DPS to handle the hardest L4's. There are some NPC battleship tanks that take a loooong time and several launcher reloads to break. Plus, you'll eventually try to chew your own face off when each mission takes two hours to complete.
Not true, I killed Hoborak Moon twice already in a reasonable time and my DPS was at the time 258 + Drones... ;-) The longest missions take less than 1 hour these days, most less than half an hour. I'm still training and am up to 279 (with some new Implants too), I see no problem with L4's at all. Target DPS will be 342 (HML T2 and 2 CNR BCS, max. skills).
Don't underestimate the damage done to cruisers/BCs with Heavy Missiles (with so many of those NPCs being in L4's).
PS. also don't underestimate the value of being able to take extended breaks while your passive tank holds ...
Disclaimer: I do not speak for the fanbois. |
Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.28 13:56:00 -
[6]
Vulture can passive tank 1100 dps with my skills atm. The closest i believe is the Onyx with 990 passive. This is based on recharge as the primary attribute.
For mission running however, i would suggest the nighthawk. Slightly worse tank than the vulture, but with the missiles, it makes life very easy.
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Okapir
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Posted - 2007.12.28 17:22:00 -
[7]
Waxau, I guess you wouldn't be prepared to share your skill levels and set-up details for that Vulture?
Thanx
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.28 17:36:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Andrue on 28/12/2007 17:40:15
Originally by: Waxau Vulture can passive tank 1100 dps with my skills atm. The closest i believe is the Onyx with 990 passive. This is based on recharge as the primary attribute.
For mission running however, i would suggest the nighthawk. Slightly worse tank than the vulture, but with the missiles, it makes life very easy.
Hmm. A Nighthawk has comparable damage output to a CNR (when you factor in the number of BC and smaller ships in most missions) and a slightly better tank. Well..the CNR tank has a higher headline figure but needs cap management and won't last for ever.
My NH with faction fittings has a recharge only (ie;no booster) tank of 150dps. It typically has over 92% primary resist and over 85% secondary.
2xLSEII; DG Invul; Faction rat specific hardener; SRAII
That means for most missions it can handle over 1500dps. 23/7 It has six CN launchers with ROF of 4.36. Not quite as much damage output as my alt's Sleipnir but pretty damn close. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.29 01:39:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Andrue Edited by: Andrue on 28/12/2007 17:40:15
Originally by: Waxau Vulture can passive tank 1100 dps with my skills atm. The closest i believe is the Onyx with 990 passive. This is based on recharge as the primary attribute.
For mission running however, i would suggest the nighthawk. Slightly worse tank than the vulture, but with the missiles, it makes life very easy.
Hmm. A Nighthawk has comparable damage output to a CNR (when you factor in the number of BC and smaller ships in most missions) and a slightly better tank. Well..the CNR tank has a higher headline figure but needs cap management and won't last for ever.
My NH with faction fittings has a recharge only (ie;no booster) tank of 150dps. It typically has over 92% primary resist and over 85% secondary.
2xLSEII; DG Invul; Faction rat specific hardener; SRAII
That means for most missions it can handle over 1500dps. 23/7 It has six CN launchers with ROF of 4.36. Not quite as much damage output as my alt's Sleipnir but pretty damn close.
The DPS itself wont be similar to a CNR however. Maybe more practical for the cruiser heavy missions, but on paper - Less dps.
As for tank, my vulture is pure tank, and i get 1100. (EFT, but i do use the setup ingame). And with the use of SiSi, the tank i have is the heaviest the vulture can get for the average player. Thats all meds being extenders, bar from 1 hardener, all lows SPR, all rigs shield purgers. I fail to see how a faction invuln, and 1 extra hardener equals the same. And with an RoF of 4.36 secs, you obviously have BCU fitted. So 1500 is not calculated properly im afraid.
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J Valkor
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.12.29 02:19:00 -
[10]
Edited by: J Valkor on 29/12/2007 02:20:00
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: Andrue Edited by: Andrue on 28/12/2007 17:40:15
Originally by: Waxau Vulture can passive tank 1100 dps with my skills atm. The closest i believe is the Onyx with 990 passive. This is based on recharge as the primary attribute.
For mission running however, i would suggest the nighthawk. Slightly worse tank than the vulture, but with the missiles, it makes life very easy.
Hmm. A Nighthawk has comparable damage output to a CNR (when you factor in the number of BC and smaller ships in most missions) and a slightly better tank. Well..the CNR tank has a higher headline figure but needs cap management and won't last for ever.
My NH with faction fittings has a recharge only (ie;no booster) tank of 150dps. It typically has over 92% primary resist and over 85% secondary.
2xLSEII; DG Invul; Faction rat specific hardener; SRAII
That means for most missions it can handle over 1500dps. 23/7 It has six CN launchers with ROF of 4.36. Not quite as much damage output as my alt's Sleipnir but pretty damn close.
The DPS itself wont be similar to a CNR however. Maybe more practical for the cruiser heavy missions, but on paper - Less dps.
As for tank, my vulture is pure tank, and i get 1100. (EFT, but i do use the setup ingame). And with the use of SiSi, the tank i have is the heaviest the vulture can get for the average player. Thats all meds being extenders, bar from 1 hardener, all lows SPR, all rigs shield purgers. I fail to see how a faction invuln, and 1 extra hardener equals the same. And with an RoF of 4.36 secs, you obviously have BCU fitted. So 1500 is not calculated properly im afraid.
The marginal benefit of each extra large shield extender means that at some point fitting hardeners will be better for your tank. 5 shield extenders + 1 hardener will wprobably be orse than 4 shield extenders + 2 hardener because a tech 2 invul gives 30% to all, which would be a greater benefit to tank than 1 extra shield extender (25% increase from 4 to 5).
Like wise, the benefit from 5 to 6 shield extenders is only 20%.
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Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.29 08:45:00 -
[11]
Whilst i would normally agree with you, experience has shown me more than what EFT usually would
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Shardrael
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.12.29 10:13:00 -
[12]
all I can say is nighthawk is pretty win for lvl 4's requires no faction pimping to easily handle all lvl 4's dmg wise and tank wise. With faction stuff the tank becomes a joke for lvl 4s and you get a nifty little boost in dmg from faction launchers and dmg mods.
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Melor Rend
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Posted - 2007.12.29 11:47:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Melor Rend on 29/12/2007 11:49:46 Edited by: Melor Rend on 29/12/2007 11:48:50 Edited by: Melor Rend on 29/12/2007 11:48:20 A Cerberus (Caldari HAC) with 2x Gistii A-Type Small Sheild Booster tanks in excess of 1000 guristas-DPS and can tank 8/10 plexes due to damage-reduction from torps (which is a large factor in guristas plexes).
An Ishtar with dual MARs (faction if possible) will also tank very well against guristas (or other kin/therm NPCs).
As an all round best tank (or at least a very very good one) i'd nominate the Broadsword (Mini HIC) with passive shield tank... can get like 1100 DPS tank (omni!!) which is very effing nice in my opinion.
Btw. since the torp change i've changed my CNR to cruise missile again and used the free CPU and grid to setup the ship so i can perma-run my gist X-Large booster so i can also tank any lvl4 with no probs (but plexes will be impossible i think due to zero damage reduction from sig-radius) |
Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.29 12:05:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Andrue on 29/12/2007 12:16:02 I based my figures on what the game told me then took the 8% remaining damage from primary resistance. It would be more like 800 with the omni-tank and worst case (EM). Luckily most of the time I don't use the omni tank which means most of the damage is smacking against at least 90% resist.
Meh. I can't get EFT to match what I see in-game and since I can't actually undock (or not worth trying) on this laptop I'll run the figures myself - not that maths is my strong point at the best of times but here goes
Shield HP:13798 Recharge:238
That gives peak HP of approx 145hp.
With 92% resists that means 145*12 = 1739hp/sec
At my worst case 81% it would be 145*5.2=745
..although my maths could well be wrong.
Ultimately all I can say for sure is that the old Recon 1/3 could get me down to 43% but no further (I actually tested that by warping in then folding my arms and wiating ) and in normal use I never see the shield go below 60% these days. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
J Valkor
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.12.29 12:48:00 -
[15]
Edited by: J Valkor on 29/12/2007 12:49:07
Originally by: Waxau Whilst i would normally agree with you, experience has shown me more than what EFT usually would
Yes, but you are also usually drunk while playing.
Edit - I also don't use EFT. Or quick fit for that matter. Except for today when I was comparing two NH set ups but that is neither here nor there.
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Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.29 12:56:00 -
[16]
Originally by: J Valkor Edited by: J Valkor on 29/12/2007 12:49:07
Originally by: Waxau Whilst i would normally agree with you, experience has shown me more than what EFT usually would
Yes, but you are also usually drunk while playing.
Edit - I also don't use EFT. Or quick fit for that matter. Except for today when I was comparing two NH set ups but that is neither here nor there.
Yes, but im rather upper class (Pinky out) As such, i drink Margaritas.
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Miss KillSome
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.12.29 19:44:00 -
[17]
I know I couldnt break the tank on passive NH with my 8x neutron II AM blastered hyperion with two MFS II and 3%dmg implant and 4 EM heavy II drones with max skills..
sucks..
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Verton
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Posted - 2007.12.29 21:16:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Miss KillSome I know I couldnt break the tank on passive NH with my 8x neutron II AM blastered hyperion with two MFS II and 3%dmg implant and 4 EM heavy II drones with max skills..
Could you post your setup please?
/*Verton*/
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Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.29 21:39:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Verton
Originally by: Miss KillSome I know I couldnt break the tank on passive NH with my 8x neutron II AM blastered hyperion with two MFS II and 3%dmg implant and 4 EM heavy II drones with max skills..
Could you post your setup please?
/*Verton*/
He doesnt fly the nighthawk - Or not that setup. He was shooting a nighthawk, and couldnt break the tank.
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J Valkor
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.12.29 21:44:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Waxau
<EDIT> Just tested my onyx setup, and got a far better tank with 1 invuln instead of extender. Would most likely be the same with the vulture too. In which case...
*Goes off to change his vulture bait setup.
Told ya. I probably shouldn't have because you are in the same region and I will have to murder you at some point, but meh.
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Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.29 22:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: J Valkor Edited by: J Valkor on 29/12/2007 21:47:04
Originally by: Waxau
<EDIT> Just tested my onyx setup, and got a far better tank with 1 invuln instead of extender. Would most likely be the same with the vulture too. In which case...
*Goes off to change his vulture bait setup.
Told ya. I probably shouldn't have because you are in the same region and I will have to murder you at some point, but meh.
Edit - Then again you kill Tri scum...
Well i never said it WAS a better tank :P My onyx and vulture setups are completely different in terms of what theyre meant to do/tank. However, you have helped me set the onyx up better. You fool! Muhahaha
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Eardianm
Darkness Inc. Blood Blind
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Posted - 2007.12.29 22:49:00 -
[22]
Originally by: J Valkor Edited by: J Valkor on 29/12/2007 12:49:07
Originally by: Waxau Whilst i would normally agree with you, experience has shown me more than what EFT usually would
Yes, but you are also usually drunk while playing.
Edit - I also don't use EFT. Or quick fit for that matter. Except for today when I was comparing two NH set ups but that is neither here nor there.
You guys at least run the numbers by hand then, right? --------------
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.12.29 23:11:00 -
[23]
The Eos passive tank got a nice boost and is worth looking at as a missing passive tanker. The kind of passive tanks are still Gallante ships when looking at all ships for tanking, Caldari dont have anything in the top 5 as I recall.
Dont forget the T2 battleships they can make decent passive tanks while haveing far more DPS output then a Vulture. Its best to have a balance of tank and gank not pure tank. Passive shield tanking guide click here |
ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.29 23:18:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Eardianm You guys at least run the numbers by hand then, right?
Real men use an abacus tbh |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.12.29 23:26:00 -
[25]
Top passive tanks.
1: Moros 2703 DPS 2: Erebus 2343 DPS 3: The Nyx 2162 DPS 4: Phoenix 2161 DPS 5: Tanatos 1643 DPS 6: Leviathan 7: Wyvern 8: Chimera 9: Vulture 10:Nighthawk 11:Onyx Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.29 23:57:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Pottsey Its best to have a balance of tank and gank not pure tank.
Disagree here. Totally depends on use. If you're tanking a lv 4, and soley that...then no you dont need dps. If you're bait, then no you shouldnt focus on dps. If you need dps, then yes it comes into the equation. But until then...it doesnt.
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Spenz
Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.12.30 00:07:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Pottsey The Eos passive tank got a nice boost and is worth looking at as a missing passive tanker. The kind of passive tanks are still Gallante ships when looking at all ships for tanking, Caldari dont have anything in the top 5 as I recall.
Dont forget the T2 battleships they can make decent passive tanks while haveing far more DPS output then a Vulture. Its best to have a balance of tank and gank not pure tank.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Are you serious? Eos is absolutely the worst mission command ship you can use right now. If your talking about a passive armor tank (HP), you are are better off with the damnation. The damnation probably has better weapons for the missions as well.
Eos lost a midslot so dont even think about passive shield tanking it, and with the drone nerf its damage is hardly flattering, especially since most of it comes from the blasters (which are not the optimal mission running weapons).
Say anything you want, but don't ever say the Eos has a better passive (or any) tank to any command ship. It is an outright lie.
If I had an Alt I would probably post with it... |
slothe
Caldari 0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.12.30 00:25:00 -
[28]
lol @ spenz
me waits for pottsey to get the figures out...
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Eardianm
Darkness Inc. Blood Blind
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Posted - 2007.12.30 02:32:00 -
[29]
Originally by: slothe lol @ spenz
me waits for pottsey to get the figures out...
qft
As a taste of what's to come, the best overall passive tanks have a decent amount of mids, but more lows. SPR IIs are king. --------------
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Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.30 03:05:00 -
[30]
Lol - I often disagree with Pottsey, but yeah - Will agree regarding the Eos
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