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Lil'Red Ridin'Hood
Snake Assault
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Posted - 2007.12.31 10:59:00 -
[1]
I've searched the forums, and only came across two very old threads on the topic.
So here are my questions: 1) Do they work? 2) Are they worth the hassle and high slot?
I'm just asking, because myself and three others got eaten by two speed tanks staying out of range tossing missiles at us. The strategy was very effective, so I was wondering if there is any valid counter to that. If so, I'd like to take that into my bag of tricks. Otherwise, I can try to emulate that strategy.
I can't think of any other counter for missiles (other than lock jamming) in PvP. amirite/wrong/aneejit?
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Ralara
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Posted - 2007.12.31 11:30:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Ralara on 31/12/2007 11:31:51 bloody useless. Don't go near them.
1) You have to time it right. Half the time you don't/can't.
2) Sometimes they miss anyway.
3) It takes up a weapon slot (not just a high slot - a weapon slot) and you don't know if you're even going to fight someone in pvp with missiles.
I don't know any players that use them. I'm sure a few do, somewhere. I've never seen it in PvP.
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Lil'Red Ridin'Hood
Snake Assault
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Posted - 2007.12.31 11:59:00 -
[3]
So, according to that, I should rather fit missiles myself? If no one tries to counter them, then I should try to go for a medium range setup (flying a frigate), stay out of web range, tank speed, and toss all missiles I've got at them?
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Selene Dukat
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Posted - 2007.12.31 12:19:00 -
[4]
Uh yeah, I second that question. If no one really uses missile-counters, then it sounds like I should plan on running a missile boat for pvp. Right?
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Shanur
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.12.31 12:26:00 -
[5]
The best counter to missiles is to speed tank. While turrets have to deal with movement in a specific direction (the transversal speed), missiles get their evasion calculated based simply on the target ship's absolute speed and the missile's explosion speed. While a missile always does damage, a fast flying frigate can negate a lot of the damage a heavy missile would potentially do just by being small (= not fitting anything that increases signature range) and flying really fast. |
Lil'Red Ridin'Hood
Snake Assault
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Posted - 2007.12.31 12:55:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Shanur The best counter to missiles is to speed tank. While turrets have to deal with movement in a specific direction (the transversal speed), missiles get their evasion calculated based simply on the target ship's absolute speed and the missile's explosion speed. While a missile always does damage, a fast flying frigate can negate a lot of the damage a heavy missile would potentially do just by being small (= not fitting anything that increases signature range) and flying really fast.
Only problem with that is, to go really fast you're going to jack up your signature. Fitting a MWD on my Rifter pushes my signature to more than 200m.
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Tek'a Rain
Gallente Collegium Mechanicae
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Posted - 2007.12.31 16:10:00 -
[7]
but if your going fast enough, it does not matter in the least what your signature is (for missiles, anyhow) as they will either burn out behind you or hit you for a fraction of a point of damage.
As for speedy missile tossers, basically that takes advantage of the way missiles track in on their targets. A gunship trying to swirl around all over the sky at high speed will have a slightly harder time hitting their targets, due to tracking, while a missile user can just fire away as long as the range is ok.
A great counter for someone speedy at longish range is a remote sensor dampener. Click their range shorter, make them lose their lock and be forced to come closer.
least, I hope it still works, have not used them for a while.
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Lil'Red Ridin'Hood
Snake Assault
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Posted - 2007.12.31 16:24:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tek'a Rain A great counter for someone speedy at longish range is a remote sensor dampener. Click their range shorter, make them lose their lock and be forced to come closer.
least, I hope it still works, have not used them for a while.
That's interesting. Haven't really thought of that.
Noob questions regarding those: In EFT it says a standard sensor dampener reduces the range and resolution by 15.2%. Does that mean that he'll be able to target at 15% less range, and 15% less lockdown speed? Or is the effective range reduced more than that due to the resolution? Not sure what those numbers exactly mean.
The eve-o item database says target range bonus 35, and resolution bonus 35. Not quite sure what to do with those numbers.
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Helen Hunts
Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc Red Dragon Industries
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Posted - 2007.12.31 16:36:00 -
[9]
Even with the huge signature radius that an active MWD gives, it is still possible to completely avoid damage from a missile.
With a fast frigate running a MWD, it is possible to outrun/outdistance a missile. If it can't catch you, it can't hurt you.
When a missile hits, damage calculations are done using the missile's Explosion Velocity and the target's speed at that moment. If the target is going faster than the Explosion Velocity, no damage is taken. (You outrun the blast wave)
And the last bit on missiles....Every missile has an Explosion Radius. When the missile's Explosion Radius is smaller than the target's Signature Radius, full damage is taken (minus any damage negated by speed). When the Explosion Radius is larger than the target Sig Radius, damage is reduced by a ratio. (Citadel Torpedoes, while big and nasty, tend to do little damage to a tiny frigate as most of the blast just blows right around them. Small missiles usually deliver the full blast to everyone)
High speed cuts missile damage in 2 ways. Being small cuts damage only if the missile is designed to things bigger than you are.
As to the OP's question, Defender missiles, when you get it right, can destroy incomming missiles or damage them so they don't do full damage. Unfortunatly, the Defenders cannot be activated until there's at least 1 missile in range that is headed for you. Defender missiles will NOT protect gang/corp mates. Currently, Defender missiles seem to have little practical use. If you think they might come in handy, feel free to keep a few in your cargo hold, but keep your missile launchers loaded with something that will actually kill your targets.
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Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money.
Any Questions? |
Neilbob
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Posted - 2007.12.31 19:09:00 -
[10]
If you are referring to Defender rockets, yes they do work, well in fact. Was in a mission last night getting showered with missiles had to warp out 2x. Finally flew home and equipped 2 launchers and bought some defenders.
It cut the incoming damage down BY A TON. Two things you should know, two launchers is a bit too much, one will work fine. Secondly, they go through ammo like candy, seriously, like a fat kid on a busted pinata.
Hope that helps.
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Sol Flare
Caldari Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2007.12.31 20:47:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lil'Red Ridin'Hood
So here are my questions: 1) Do they work? 2) Are they worth the hassle and high slot?
1) Yes 2) Depends
Defender missiles will require you to spend a bit of time to get it to lvl 4 to make them really effective. Also they require range as well. If the attackers are too close defenders will miss every time.
Fitting them is a hit and miss thing. If you already equip launchers then you are not out any damage unless you decide to load the defenders. This is helpful if you are taking damage from a ranged missile boat. It is also wise to step down a launcher size to increase ROF... such as the rocket launcher point made earlier.
These are not automatically cycling either. They will launch as a missile is launched against you. So if a missile is not fired during the cycle time of the launcher, it will turn off and wait to be activated again. This is the downfall to using short ROF launchers... I tend to use standards or HAMs. Longer ROF means cycle time is longer providing you more protection over a period of time.
Play around with them in your Corp... You will be amazed the amount of damage you can take away by dropping a few pearls from that string coming at you. -------------------------------------------------- -=Student of Sun Tzu=- |
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